inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 14:37:32 GMT
The whole Krogan arc is written to brow beat players into supporting the Krogan and being for the cure. You have to shoot Mordin in the back to sabotage the deployment; or you have to meta-game a whole gamut of decisions thorough out the trilogy in order to make the pro-Genophage side seem even remotely appealing in ME3. And even when you do you have to not only purposely forego gameplay & narrative content but you ultimately still have to side with a one-dimensional, racist caricature at the end of it. There is no nuance for the Genophage debate, because BioWare intentionally wanted players to feel bad for a species they arbitrarily decided was the victim; despite how they originally wrote the background lore. Oh boo hoo, Bioware browbeats you into...blah, blah, blah. You put on a better "victim" act than the krogan do. You have plenty of opportunity to make the decisions that will naturally take you to the point in ME3 where not curing the genophage will save Mordin...WITHOUT metagaming. You just have to have some guts to make choices the reflect how low an esteem you hold the krogan in. In ME1, you're not only given the opportunity to leave him off your crew (which would be the proper action if you believe you can't trust them), you also have the opportunity to shoot him for trying to sabotage your mission... or failing that... you can simply refrain from autopressing the blue or red choice and Ashley will eventually shoot him. By ME2, you should be quite willing to destroy a potential cure for the genophage and Mordin is quite willing throughout that mission to give you multiple reasons for his modification and justifications for the genophage. Those are the only two requirements and a blind gamer could easily follow those clues without metagaming to arrive at the point where sabotaging the genophage would be well within that sort of Shepard's character (i.e a Shepard who believes the krogan are violent brutes). So don't give me your whining about Bioware browbeating you over the krogan. They don't browbeat near as much as you do to convince people here who want to cure the genophage that it's the wrong thing to do. Bioware wrote both sides of that coin. If they didn't, there would be no question in anyone's the curing the genophage would be the right thing to do. You're just whining because the didn't right it lop-sided in the direction you want them to. This assumption, that those who oppose the Genophage in ME3, must be someone who innately hates the Krogan and wants to see them wiped out is the exactly the same way BioWare sees the issue too. And why it's so biased. Contrary to assumptions, my Shepard didn't hate the Krogan, nor did he look with discrimination at Wrex when he recruited him on the Citadel in ME 1. Sure, the mercenary was very rough around the edges and took some getting used to but Shepard wasn't going to turn away an ally in his mission to stop Saren; and why would he? This is one of the most renowned spectres in the galaxy, with decades of networking and establishing his power base, it would be stupid to reject aid out of hand or because one "assumes the Krogan are just violent brutes". When Wrex pulls the gun on Shepard on Virmire he could see the conflict in his associate, even sympathize with it; to an extent; but not if it came to directly jeopardizing his mission. As a commander who wants to have as many allies and assets as he can it would be foolish to just shoot Wrex when he knows he can talk him out of it. And after the mission, he and Wrex talk with the Krogan admitting that he let his emotions cloud his judgment. Which is a good thing, Shepard thinks to himself, Wrex is learning to think about the bigger picture. Flash forward to ME2, during Mordin's loyalty quest, and Shepard finds Wrex as leader of his clan. A now practical leader who is working to establish his dominance by looking at the bigger picture and not wanting to rely on other races to get his people out of their current situation. The Krogan even promises Shepard aid in the form of a Krogan army at his back once the Reapers arrive. As for the loyalty mission itself, Shepard listens to all the reasoning and logic behind Mordin's actions, though he does stop the scientist from killing his student because of an emotional outburst. Afterwards, he tells Mordin to hold onto the data, since throwing it away after all the lives lost to obtain it didn't sit well with him. Information is not evil, its amoral and; unlike the Illusive man/Cerberus he actually trusts the Salarian to do what is necessary and not let his emotions or ambitions (in TIM's case) cloud his judgment. Side note: If the game would have let Shepard, he would have preserved the Collector Base for the Alliance or Citadel government as it contained valuable information on the Reapers. But he definitely didn't trust the human supremacist who had shown that he was very willing to utilize such technology to his own ends; or, even worse, showed that he was incapable of reigning in or controlling the people in his organization who would. It's the same reason why you wouldn't give a terrorist organization enriched uranium. Sure they could use it to build a nuclear reactor and provide power to the surrounding area but more likely they will just use it to make a weapon to further their own agenda.Anyway, back to the point at hand. Now in ME 3 Shepard goes to oversee negotiations with Wrex thinking that the leader of the Krogan would be capable of looking at the overall situation, that his ally would remember his promise; made a few short months ago; and would utilize the lessons he learned back on Virmire and not let his emotions cloud his judgment. The Reapers have invaded, the entire galaxy is under siege, and the only stopgap holding the majority of the invasion force at bay is the stalemate at Palavan. One that threatens to break at any moment. Shepard hopes that Wrex realizes this, that the necessity of combating the issue of the killer robots coming to kill everyone should take precedence over personal ambition or petty politicking. Instead, what does Wrex do? He pulls a gun, figuratively this time, and he holds it to head of the galaxy and says that unless his demands are met then everyone is going to die. Shepard doesn't get a chance to object to this fool-hearty mindset, he can't even rely on others at the table balking at such a demand because the Dalatrass is too busy screaming at how much she hates the Krogan and that, she too would rather be killed than to agree to help the Krogan. What's more, even when Shepard (begrudgingly) agrees [since the game doesn't let you express that viewpoint out loud] all he sees Wrex do is try and drive a wedge between him and his allies at every opportunity. From nearly causing a shootout on Sur'Kesh, to all but laughing in the Primarch's face about his recently dead son Wrex takes immense pleasure in being every bit the "violent brute" he detests the galaxy for viewing him and his species as. Of course the biggest indication of this is when Wrex flat out refuses to send even a token force of his ground troops to help at Palavan despite the direness of the situation. This whole time the game refuses to let Shepard voice concern or protest, instead, it makes the assumption that the commander is either totally in agreement with the whole situation or that Shepard is suddenly now a coward; who would rather sulk over to the professed racist instead of directly confronting someone who he was able to talk out of a similar situation in the first game. This is the bias of the Tuchunka arc. This is why the game browbeats you.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:43:41 GMT
Instead, what does Wrex do? He pulls a gun, figuratively this time, and he holds it to head of the galaxy and says that unless his demands are met then everyone is going to die. So exactly what humanity and Shepard do. "We'll only help you if you help us build the Crucible. Oh, and if you don't everyone will die." Or the Turians "We won't help you until you help us secure Palevan." Or the Quarians "We won't help you until you help us secure Rannoch." Or the Rachni "We won't help you until you help us." And so on and so forth. Every race does what you are hating the krogan for doing. Also please give the quote where Wrex states he will help with the Reapers in ME2. I just played that part and don't remember him saying that.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 15:05:22 GMT
Instead, what does Wrex do? He pulls a gun, figuratively this time, and he holds it to head of the galaxy and says that unless his demands are met then everyone is going to die. So exactly what humanity and Shepard do. "We'll only help you if you help us build the Crucible. Oh, and if you don't everyone will die." Or the Turians "We won't help you until you help us secure Palevan." Or the Quarians "We won't help you until you help us secure Rannoch." Or the Rachni "We won't help you until you help us." And so on and so forth. Every race does what you are hating the krogan for doing. Also please give the quote where Wrex states he will help with the Reapers in ME2. I just played that part and don't remember him saying that. The key difference between the Krogan and all of those other races is that they want to help but are physically incapable of rendering aid. The Alliance just had nearly all of their fleets wiped out, the Turians are holding back the tide of Reaper dreadnoughts over Palavan, the Quarians are engaged in a life or death struggle with the Reaper-controlled Geth, and the Rachni Queen is literally being held captive. The Krogan, on the other hand, are under no such constraints; in fact Wrex will even make a point of telling Shepard that Reaper activity in the Tuchunka system has been very light. But instead of sending help when asked he digs in his heel and says that he will offer nothing, that he will let the galaxy burn to ash around him, unless his demands are met in full. That's the difference. And the line Wrex gives is not in a cinematic cutscene, its from one of his 'auto-dialogues' if you stick around and listen to him while on Tuchunka and in-between loyalty missions (I believe after Mordin's). He says something to the effect of "The Krogan are with you Shepard. And when the Reapers show up, they are going to have to face an army of angry Krogan at your back".
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 15:52:36 GMT
So exactly what humanity and Shepard do. "We'll only help you if you help us build the Crucible. Oh, and if you don't everyone will die." Or the Turians "We won't help you until you help us secure Palevan." Or the Quarians "We won't help you until you help us secure Rannoch." Or the Rachni "We won't help you until you help us." And so on and so forth. Every race does what you are hating the krogan for doing. Also please give the quote where Wrex states he will help with the Reapers in ME2. I just played that part and don't remember him saying that. The key difference between the Krogan and all of those other races is that they want to help but are physically incapable of rendering aid. The Alliance just had nearly all of their fleets wiped out, the Turians are holding back the tide of Reaper dreadnoughts over Palavan, the Quarians are engaged in a life or death struggle with the Reaper-controlled Geth, and the Rachni Queen is literally being held captive. The Krogan, on the other hand, are under no such constraints; in fact Wrex will even make a point of telling Shepard that Reaper activity in the Tuchunka system has been very light. But instead of sending help when asked he digs in his heel and says that he will offer nothing, that he will let the galaxy burn to ash around him, unless his demands are met in full. That's the difference. And the line Wrex gives is not in a cinematic cutscene, its from one of his 'auto-dialogues' if you stick around and listen to him while on Tuchunka and in-between loyalty missions (I believe after Mordin's). He says something to the effect of "The Krogan are with you Shepard. And when the Reapers show up, they are going to have to face an army of angry Krogan at your back". And so are the krogan. Their only asset to give to the fight are ground forces, which means they know a lot of them will die. Without the Genophage cured, too many to support their population meaning win or lose they're dead anyway. So like those other races, they're in a life or death struggle that needs to be addressed before they can help others. Plus it's not like they offered nothing before the cure. After all he was sending companies out to fight Reaper forces. Ah okay on the voice line.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 16:08:42 GMT
The key difference between the Krogan and all of those other races is that they want to help but are physically incapable of rendering aid. The Alliance just had nearly all of their fleets wiped out, the Turians are holding back the tide of Reaper dreadnoughts over Palavan, the Quarians are engaged in a life or death struggle with the Reaper-controlled Geth, and the Rachni Queen is literally being held captive. The Krogan, on the other hand, are under no such constraints; in fact Wrex will even make a point of telling Shepard that Reaper activity in the Tuchunka system has been very light. But instead of sending help when asked he digs in his heel and says that he will offer nothing, that he will let the galaxy burn to ash around him, unless his demands are met in full. That's the difference. And the line Wrex gives is not in a cinematic cutscene, its from one of his 'auto-dialogues' if you stick around and listen to him while on Tuchunka and in-between loyalty missions (I believe after Mordin's). He says something to the effect of "The Krogan are with you Shepard. And when the Reapers show up, they are going to have to face an army of angry Krogan at your back". And so are the krogan. Their only asset to give to the fight are ground forces, which means they know a lot of them will die. Without the Genophage cured, too many to support their population meaning win or lose they're dead anyway. So like those other races, they're in a life or death struggle that needs to be addressed before they can help others. Plus it's not like they offered nothing before the cure. After all he was sending companies out to fight Reaper forces. Ah okay on the voice line. Except no one is asking for the Krogan to commit their entire species to the fight. Just like how no one is demanding all Quarian civilian ships join the massed fleet to take back Earth. The galaxy needs Krogan boots on the ground, and they need them now. Waiting for the Genophage cure to be deployed wastes precious time, and even if we were to assume that every single one of the Krogan soldiers they send off to fight in the larger war dies, how would it matter if they are cured or not? They are dead either way. In fact, if Palavan would have fallen during the time Shepard and the galaxy was playing doctor during the Tuchunka arc; which takes up to a month at least, if we assume the players does all side missions as well; then it wouldn't matter who many babies the Krogan could have as they are all dead at that point.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 16:13:23 GMT
And so are the krogan. Their only asset to give to the fight are ground forces, which means they know a lot of them will die. Without the Genophage cured, too many to support their population meaning win or lose they're dead anyway. So like those other races, they're in a life or death struggle that needs to be addressed before they can help others. Plus it's not like they offered nothing before the cure. After all he was sending companies out to fight Reaper forces. Ah okay on the voice line. Except no one is asking for the Krogan to commit their entire species to the fight. Just like how no one is demanding all Quarian civilian ships join the massed fleet to take back Earth. The galaxy needs Krogan boots on the ground, and they need them now. Waiting for the Genophage cure to be deployed wastes precious time, and even if we were to assume that every single one of the Krogan soldiers they send off to fight in the larger war dies, how would it matter if they are cured or not? They are dead either way. In fact, if Palavan would have fallen during the time Shepard and the galaxy was playing doctor during the Tuchunka arc; which takes up to a month at least, if we assume the players does all side missions as well; then it wouldn't matter who many babies the Krogan could have as they are all dead at that point. That's exactly what they're demanding. The krogan are a warrior race, and the demand is "We want all your warriors". As for your Quarian example, I'd argue they are demanding that of them too. It's mentioned a few times, like in ME2 Han saying that's why they need a homeworld to put their civilians while they fight the Reapers. Because then there are still the krogan women and children alive. With the cure, as they grow up they can replenish their numbers. If not, they can't. Wrex says this as early as ME1 since that was the disagreement he had with his father.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 16:27:39 GMT
Except no one is asking for the Krogan to commit their entire species to the fight. Just like how no one is demanding all Quarian civilian ships join the massed fleet to take back Earth. The galaxy needs Krogan boots on the ground, and they need them now. Waiting for the Genophage cure to be deployed wastes precious time, and even if we were to assume that every single one of the Krogan soldiers they send off to fight in the larger war dies, how would it matter if they are cured or not? They are dead either way. In fact, if Palavan would have fallen during the time Shepard and the galaxy was playing doctor during the Tuchunka arc; which takes up to a month at least, if we assume the players does all side missions as well; then it wouldn't matter who many babies the Krogan could have as they are all dead at that point. That's exactly what they're demanding. The krogan are a warrior race, and the demand is "We want all your warriors". As for your Quarian example, I'd argue they are demanding that of them too. It's mentioned a few times, like in ME2 Han saying that's why they need a homeworld to put their civilians while they fight the Reapers. Because then there are still the krogan women and children alive. With the cure, as they grow up they can replenish their numbers. If not, they can't. Wrex says this as early as ME1 since that was the disagreement he had with his father. If the Krogan are saying that they have to commit every single member of their species to the fight because they are all 'warriors' then that's on them. The request is for aid, for troops on the ground, and it's implied that means only the able bodied. The draft in World War II wasn't demanding that the United States empty itself entirely of young men to the point that there would literally be no males between the ages of 17 and 30 left in the county, and it's the same thing with the Krogan. And again, even if we assume that every single one of the soldiers the Krogan send off to fight dies; they don't, but let's assume they do; then how is that loss going to impact the species even if the cure is deployed? They aren't going to be contributing to the baby population if they are dead, so the net loss is still the same. And even if the war drags on for years, with conventional fighting ruling the day, then there is no one saying that the cure couldn't be developed and deployed during that time. In fact, that is what my Shepard was prepared to push for. Instead, Wrex/Wreve demands that the entire war effort be put on hold until after a mass cure deployment takes place. And if Palaven fell during that time, if the last hope of the galaxy holding out long enough to finish the Crucible was lost, then what point would have the Genophage cure offered? I would even stipulate that it would have been even worse for the Krogan if that happened. Being able to have unrestricted population growth again, only to see all those children consumed by the Reapers and their harvest.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 16:48:53 GMT
That's exactly what they're demanding. The krogan are a warrior race, and the demand is "We want all your warriors". As for your Quarian example, I'd argue they are demanding that of them too. It's mentioned a few times, like in ME2 Han saying that's why they need a homeworld to put their civilians while they fight the Reapers. Because then there are still the krogan women and children alive. With the cure, as they grow up they can replenish their numbers. If not, they can't. Wrex says this as early as ME1 since that was the disagreement he had with his father. If the Krogan are saying that they have to commit every single member of their species to the fight because they are all 'warriors' then that's on them. The request is for aid, for troops on the ground, and it's implied that means only the able bodied. The draft in World War II wasn't demanding that the United States empty itself entirely of young men to the point that there would literally be no males between the ages of 17 and 30 left in the county, and it's the same thing with the Krogan. And again, even if we assume that every single one of the soldiers the Krogan send off to fight dies; they don't, but let's assume they do; then how is that loss going to impact the species even if the cure is deployed? They aren't going to be contributing to the baby population if they are dead, so the net loss is still the same. And even if the war drags on for years, with conventional fighting ruling the day, then there is no one saying that the cure couldn't be developed and deployed during that time. In fact, that is what my Shepard was prepared to push for. Instead, Wrex/Wreve demands that the entire war effort be put on hold until after a mass cure deployment takes place. And if Palaven fell during that time, if the last hope of the galaxy holding out long enough to finish the Crucible was lost, then what point would have the Genophage cure offered? I would even stipulate that it would have been even worse for the Krogan if that happened. Being able to have unrestricted population growth again, only to see all those children consumed by the Reapers and their harvest. Comparing the krogan to the US is silly, since the war never really reached the continent. If Germany or Japan did invade the mainland US, absolutely every man would be drafted. The krogan are probably closest to the Soviet Union to use the WW2 example: strong ground force but needs aid in industry and air/sea, distrusted by other allies, paranoid the allies would use them and then watch as they're wiped out, etc. As a side note, the Council (barring Turians who seemed analogues of Britain) is probably the closest to the US with things like not getting involved until the war hits them (Citadel Coup being Pearl Harbor), having huge economic and industrial might, etc. Again, the women and children would be able to repopulate if they have the cure if all the adult men die. Meanwhile, if still having the Genophage they will lose faster than they get thus extinction.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 16:59:35 GMT
If the Krogan are saying that they have to commit every single member of their species to the fight because they are all 'warriors' then that's on them. The request is for aid, for troops on the ground, and it's implied that means only the able bodied. The draft in World War II wasn't demanding that the United States empty itself entirely of young men to the point that there would literally be no males between the ages of 17 and 30 left in the county, and it's the same thing with the Krogan. And again, even if we assume that every single one of the soldiers the Krogan send off to fight dies; they don't, but let's assume they do; then how is that loss going to impact the species even if the cure is deployed? They aren't going to be contributing to the baby population if they are dead, so the net loss is still the same. And even if the war drags on for years, with conventional fighting ruling the day, then there is no one saying that the cure couldn't be developed and deployed during that time. In fact, that is what my Shepard was prepared to push for. Instead, Wrex/Wreve demands that the entire war effort be put on hold until after a mass cure deployment takes place. And if Palaven fell during that time, if the last hope of the galaxy holding out long enough to finish the Crucible was lost, then what point would have the Genophage cure offered? I would even stipulate that it would have been even worse for the Krogan if that happened. Being able to have unrestricted population growth again, only to see all those children consumed by the Reapers and their harvest. Again, the women and children would be able to repopulate if they have the cure if all the adult men die. Meanwhile, if still having the Genophage they will lose faster than they get thus extinction. I agree that the women and children would be able to repopulate, as well as them being excluded from the fighting. If the fighting men die though, cured or not, it won't impact those numbers since you yourself said that those women and children are the source of new babies, not the soldiers fighting in the war. If the Krogan are vastly depleted in the ongoing hostilities then a deployment of the cure happening alongside the fighting would just as easily solve the problem, and all without putting the very survival of the galaxy at stake.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 17:11:06 GMT
Again, the women and children would be able to repopulate if they have the cure if all the adult men die. Meanwhile, if still having the Genophage they will lose faster than they get thus extinction. I agree that the women and children would be able to repopulate, as well as them being excluded from the fighting. If the fighting men die though, cured or not, it won't impact those numbers since you yourself said that those women and children are the source of new babies, not the soldiers fighting in the war. If the Krogan are vastly depleted in the ongoing hostilities then a deployment of the cure happening alongside the fighting would just as easily solve the problem, and all without putting the very survival of the galaxy at stake. It would impact those numbers. Uncured, the entire race only has a handful of births a year. Potentially not enough to match the mortality rate. With the cure, they would have a lot more births a year meaning they would be able to surpass the mortality rate. The krogan don't want that gamble before the cure is given, same as every other race wanting to be as secure as possible before joining the fight. And again, that's just one issue.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 17:40:14 GMT
I agree that the women and children would be able to repopulate, as well as them being excluded from the fighting. If the fighting men die though, cured or not, it won't impact those numbers since you yourself said that those women and children are the source of new babies, not the soldiers fighting in the war. If the Krogan are vastly depleted in the ongoing hostilities then a deployment of the cure happening alongside the fighting would just as easily solve the problem, and all without putting the very survival of the galaxy at stake. It would impact those numbers. Uncured, the entire race only has a handful of births a year. Potentially not enough to match the mortality rate. With the cure, they would have a lot more births a year meaning they would be able to surpass the mortality rate. The krogan don't want that gamble before the cure is given, same as every other race wanting to be as secure as possible before joining the fight. And again, that's just one issue. And those births will attribute nothing to the war effort, regardless of how many there are. These aren't Rachni, who are born combat capable in a matter of hours to days, these Krogan children will be vulnerable for years and years before they are able to function on their own, let alone join in a fight for the very survival of the galaxy. I can understand the need to have more babies in the long run, especially if the war drags on for decades. But in the immediate timeframe, the galaxy needs Krogan boots on the ground, and they needed them yesterday. The fact of the matter still remains that the Krogan were under no direct and dire threat from Reapers forces but the Turians were. And as the lynchpin of war effort the outcome of Palaven was the defining battle of the whole war that would decide whether the galaxy managed to pull together to complete the Crucible, or if they would be broken and devoured piecemeal by the Reapers. Wrex knew this, was made aware of that fact during negotiations and still choose to hold up the war. Even if you wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that the birthrate needed to be addressed prior to the Krogan joining the fighting as a whole, there was no reason to actively deny the forces Palaven needed out of what was essentially spite. We know that after the Tuchunka arc, the Krogan see galaxy-wide deployment, so we know they have the numbers capable of fielding that many troops and there was no way that the battle of Palaven needed a galaxy's worth of Krogan just for that one, decisive battle. Wrex had more than enough forces to relive the Turians, he just purposely choose not to help; all while constantly antagonizing his allies; and by so doing but the fate of the galaxy in massive jeopardy.
|
|
quarianmasterrace
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: QuarianMasteRace
Posts: 175 Likes: 612
inherit
11914
0
Jun 30, 2024 13:27:10 GMT
612
quarianmasterrace
175
May 14, 2021 21:10:25 GMT
May 2021
quarianmasterrace
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
QuarianMasteRace
|
Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 16, 2021 19:22:40 GMT
I actually like the genophage arc and the krogan, but never really got the strategic urgency of getting them in the fight against super huge 2km Starships anyhow.
Seems like you'd waste perfectly good ships that could be used to do useful things in space battles and resource gathering for the Crucible, to ferry battletoads for the purpose of headbutting husks that the enemy has a functionally endless supply of anyway. And that's all they can do. We don't even get Fortack the glorious Lord High Researcher of Clan Urdnot to help us build the Crucible for some reason. You just get ground troops.
Even if for some reason you need an enormous supply of ground troops, the geth are probably a better fit for it. They can make fighters as fast as they can manufacture platforms and weapons. Krogan still have to mature even if they don't have a genophage.
If Shepard were me I'd have headed straight for the Veil after the Counclol told me off and Wrex gave me the runaround. I've two allied factions there that already promised to help me last game, both with giant fleets + lots of tech expertise to help with the Crucible and one with endless disposable platforms to throw at husks, as well.
I'd say the Rachni were more suited too, if the army and fleets they were supposedly building offscreen for 2 years didn't get Shanghai'd offscreen. What an anticlimax that whole arc ends up being.
|
|
mikaelnovasun
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 553 Likes: 1,670
inherit
3329
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:49:58 GMT
1,670
mikaelnovasun
553
February 2017
mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by mikaelnovasun on Jun 16, 2021 19:23:36 GMT
I agree that the women and children would be able to repopulate, as well as them being excluded from the fighting. If the fighting men die though, cured or not, it won't impact those numbers since you yourself said that those women and children are the source of new babies, not the soldiers fighting in the war. If the Krogan are vastly depleted in the ongoing hostilities then a deployment of the cure happening alongside the fighting would just as easily solve the problem, and all without putting the very survival of the galaxy at stake. It would impact those numbers. Uncured, the entire race only has a handful of births a year. Potentially not enough to match the mortality rate. With the cure, they would have a lot more births a year meaning they would be able to surpass the mortality rate. The krogan don't want that gamble before the cure is given, same as every other race wanting to be as secure as possible before joining the fight. And again, that's just one issue. A handful births of each year? I am playing through ME2LE currently and Mordin says the genophage isn't a sterility plague, just often misconstrued as such. It brings current Krogan birth rates in line with birth rates before the Krogan were uplifted. The reason the Krogan population had exploded was because of technology, and no longer being confined to a toxic planet. Which lead to the rebellions. When I heard that line yesterday..it made me rethink curing the genophage come ME3. Is this reconned in ME3, to only a handful/few births a year? It has been a long time since I really paid attention to the dialog prior to MELE.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 16, 2021 22:34:14 GMT
I actually like the genophage arc and the krogan, but never really got the strategic urgency of getting them in the fight against super huge 2km Starships anyhow. Seems like you'd waste perfectly good ships that could be used to do useful things in space battles and resource gathering for the Crucible, to ferry battletoads for the purpose of headbutting husks that the enemy has a functionally endless supply of anyway. And that's all they can do. We don't even get Fortack the glorious Lord High Researcher of Clan Urdnot to help us build the Crucible for some reason. You just get ground troops. Even if for some reason you need an enormous supply of ground troops, the geth are probably a better fit for it. They can make fighters as fast as they can manufacture platforms and weapons. Krogan still have to mature even if they don't have a genophage. If Shepard were me I'd have headed straight for the Veil after the Counclol told me off and Wrex gave me the runaround. I've two allied factions there that already promised to help me last game, both with giant fleets + lots of tech expertise to help with the Crucible and one with endless disposable platforms to throw at husks, as well. I'd say the Rachni were more suited too, if the army and fleets they were supposedly building offscreen for 2 years didn't get Shanghai'd offscreen. What an anticlimax that whole arc ends up being. I would say the Rachni would actually be more viable than the both the Krogan & Geth as ground forces. They also would make for incredible engineers and maintenance crews. For starters the Krogan, and the Geth especially, need sizable infrastructure to be fitted and equipped for combat. Weapons, armor, sophisticated electronics for OMI-tools and Geth-usable hardware platforms all have to be available to see those forces given the tools to operate on a battlefield. Meanwhile, the Rachni can be hatched from an egg and from the moment of birth be combat capable; with natural weapons and armor on par with modern technology. The Rachni also have the advantage of being suited for a variety of environments that both the Krogan and Geth would need additional protection to operate in. Planets with caustic atmospheres, extremely high barometric pressure, etc. These are places the Rachni can thrive in naked as the day they were hatched. All of this translates into less resources you have to put into your fighting forces (if you are desperate for supplies), alternatively it wouldn't take any more resources than the Krogan &Geth would require to equip Rachni Brood Warriors with additional armor and long ranged weapons and turning them in an ultra elite fighting force. Rachni also posses an innate QEC network which means, that apart from being killed to a warrior, there is no way for the Reapers to disrupt communication between resistance forces, nor anyway for them to listen in on said communiqués. What's more, this network would allow the Rachni to operate much more efficiently across wide areas of space, far more than the typically rowdy Krogan do; and being less susceptible to hacking than the Geth would be. In fact, apart from the implantation of Reaper control tech and/or the capture of the queen, the Rachni are effectively immune to the effects of indoctrination. I do agree about the writer's fiat that saw the queen's army wiped out off screen. All these promises of our choices have direct impacts "Even including the Rachni" and the ultimate pay off is a complete rehash of ME 1's 'save or kill the queen' scenario and practically zero payoff for choices made previously.
|
|
quarianmasterrace
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: QuarianMasteRace
Posts: 175 Likes: 612
inherit
11914
0
Jun 30, 2024 13:27:10 GMT
612
quarianmasterrace
175
May 14, 2021 21:10:25 GMT
May 2021
quarianmasterrace
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
QuarianMasteRace
|
Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 17, 2021 15:25:46 GMT
I actually like the genophage arc and the krogan, but never really got the strategic urgency of getting them in the fight against super huge 2km Starships anyhow. Seems like you'd waste perfectly good ships that could be used to do useful things in space battles and resource gathering for the Crucible, to ferry battletoads for the purpose of headbutting husks that the enemy has a functionally endless supply of anyway. And that's all they can do. We don't even get Fortack the glorious Lord High Researcher of Clan Urdnot to help us build the Crucible for some reason. You just get ground troops. Even if for some reason you need an enormous supply of ground troops, the geth are probably a better fit for it. They can make fighters as fast as they can manufacture platforms and weapons. Krogan still have to mature even if they don't have a genophage. If Shepard were me I'd have headed straight for the Veil after the Counclol told me off and Wrex gave me the runaround. I've two allied factions there that already promised to help me last game, both with giant fleets + lots of tech expertise to help with the Crucible and one with endless disposable platforms to throw at husks, as well. I'd say the Rachni were more suited too, if the army and fleets they were supposedly building offscreen for 2 years didn't get Shanghai'd offscreen. What an anticlimax that whole arc ends up being. I would say the Rachni would actually be more viable than the both the Krogan & Geth as ground forces. They also would make for incredible engineers and maintenance crews. For starters the Krogan, and the Geth especially, need sizable infrastructure to be fitted and equipped for combat. Weapons, armor, sophisticated electronics for OMI-tools and Geth-usable hardware platforms all have to be available to see those forces given the tools to operate on a battlefield. Meanwhile, the Rachni can be hatched from an egg and from the moment of birth be combat capable; with natural weapons and armor on par with modern technology. The Rachni also have the advantage of being suited for a variety of environments that both the Krogan and Geth would need additional protection to operate in. Planets with caustic atmospheres, extremely high barometric pressure, etc. These are places the Rachni can thrive in naked as the day they were hatched. All of this translates into less resources you have to put into your fighting forces (if you are desperate for supplies), alternatively it wouldn't take any more resources than the Krogan &Geth would require to equip Rachni Brood Warriors with additional armor and long ranged weapons and turning them in an ultra elite fighting force. Rachni also posses an innate QEC network which means, that apart from being killed to a warrior, there is no way for the Reapers to disrupt communication between resistance forces, nor anyway for them to listen in on said communiqués. What's more, this network would allow the Rachni to operate much more efficiently across wide areas of space, far more than the typically rowdy Krogan do; and being less susceptible to hacking than the Geth would be. In fact, apart from the implantation of Reaper control tech and/or the capture of the queen, the Rachni are effectively immune to the effects of indoctrination. I do agree about the writer's fiat that saw the queen's army wiped out off screen. All these promises of our choices have direct impacts "Even including the Rachni" and the ultimate pay off is a complete rehash of ME 1's 'save or kill the queen' scenario and practically zero payoff for choices made previously. For sure, the writers could have given them a useful and interesting role in the narrative, had they wanted to. Battletoads won in popularity, though. That's really ME3 in general, moving toward simplistic rubber forehead concepts that could elicit pathos from normies who play things like Gears and COD. You see it in all the antagonists being made human and the more alien concepts getting toned down in general. The pinnochio geth are a good example. Honestly, its perhaps better to be largely ignored like the rachni than totally ruined like that. Personally always wanted a Rachni companion, even if it couldn't talk. Bio managed it with a dog in DAO and it was awesome.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 17, 2021 16:15:17 GMT
I would say the Rachni would actually be more viable than the both the Krogan & Geth as ground forces. They also would make for incredible engineers and maintenance crews. For starters the Krogan, and the Geth especially, need sizable infrastructure to be fitted and equipped for combat. Weapons, armor, sophisticated electronics for OMI-tools and Geth-usable hardware platforms all have to be available to see those forces given the tools to operate on a battlefield. Meanwhile, the Rachni can be hatched from an egg and from the moment of birth be combat capable; with natural weapons and armor on par with modern technology. The Rachni also have the advantage of being suited for a variety of environments that both the Krogan and Geth would need additional protection to operate in. Planets with caustic atmospheres, extremely high barometric pressure, etc. These are places the Rachni can thrive in naked as the day they were hatched. All of this translates into less resources you have to put into your fighting forces (if you are desperate for supplies), alternatively it wouldn't take any more resources than the Krogan &Geth would require to equip Rachni Brood Warriors with additional armor and long ranged weapons and turning them in an ultra elite fighting force. Rachni also posses an innate QEC network which means, that apart from being killed to a warrior, there is no way for the Reapers to disrupt communication between resistance forces, nor anyway for them to listen in on said communiqués. What's more, this network would allow the Rachni to operate much more efficiently across wide areas of space, far more than the typically rowdy Krogan do; and being less susceptible to hacking than the Geth would be. In fact, apart from the implantation of Reaper control tech and/or the capture of the queen, the Rachni are effectively immune to the effects of indoctrination. I do agree about the writer's fiat that saw the queen's army wiped out off screen. All these promises of our choices have direct impacts "Even including the Rachni" and the ultimate pay off is a complete rehash of ME 1's 'save or kill the queen' scenario and practically zero payoff for choices made previously. For sure, the writers could have given them a useful and interesting role in the narrative, had they wanted to. Battletoads won in popularity, though. That's really ME3 in general, moving toward simplistic rubber forehead concepts that could elicit pathos from normies who play things like Gears and COD. You see it in all the antagonists being made human and the more alien concepts getting toned down in general. The pinnochio geth are a good example. Honestly, its perhaps better to be largely ignored like the rachni than totally ruined like that. Personally always wanted a Rachni companion, even if it couldn't talk. Bio managed it with a dog in DAO and it was awesome. Completely agree with you there. I hated the Pinocchio-bots the Geth turned into and there is a small amount of solace in the fact that the Rachni still retained their 'alien' factor, even if they were swept under the rug. A Rachni companion, either as a juvenile queen or as a brood warrior homage to the Malbari in DAO; whom I throughly enjoyed as well; would be amazing.
|
|
Monica21
N3
Chaotic Good
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,434
inherit
4858
0
Sept 16, 2021 21:34:12 GMT
1,434
Monica21
Chaotic Good
586
Mar 17, 2017 19:49:37 GMT
March 2017
monica21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Monica21 on Jun 18, 2021 13:06:16 GMT
A handful births of each year? I am playing through ME2LE currently and Mordin says the genophage isn't a sterility plague, just often misconstrued as such. It brings current Krogan birth rates in line with birth rates before the Krogan were uplifted. The reason the Krogan population had exploded was because of technology, and no longer being confined to a toxic planet. Which lead to the rebellions. When I heard that line yesterday..it made me rethink curing the genophage come ME3. Is this reconned in ME3, to only a handful/few births a year? It has been a long time since I really paid attention to the dialog prior to MELE. I don't remember specific retconning, just that Mordin had a complete change of heart from "the genophage is necessary for galactic peace" to "everything I did was wrong and I have to fix it." And there's also EDI's dialogue (which is really almost presented as an aside and I think can be missed - it's been awhile since I've played ME3) about Krogan birth rates. My opinion is that the combination of incredibly high birth rates and the long Krogan life span will lead to another rebellion if you manage to defeat the Reapers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11913
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:21:09 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:21:09 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 13:09:57 GMT
The whole Krogan arc is written to brow beat players into supporting the Krogan and being for the cure. You have to shoot Mordin in the back to sabotage the deployment; or you have to meta-game a whole gamut of decisions thorough out the trilogy in order to make the pro-Genophage side seem even remotely appealing in ME3. And even when you do you have to not only purposely forego gameplay & narrative content but you ultimately still have to side with a one-dimensional, racist caricature at the end of it. There is no nuance for the Genophage debate, because BioWare intentionally wanted players to feel bad for a species they arbitrarily decided was the victim; despite how they originally wrote the background lore. How? I think a better term of what you are looking for is 'railroading' here rather then browbeating and there is no way I feel railroaded into that situation. First off the Salarians, led by a racist caricature or not, represent a much safer bet when it comes to war assets. The Krogan are, without the cure to the genophage, a dying species which has limited military assets aside from pure ground based military muscle. They work as mercenaries and fight amongst themselves but have no otherganized military assets to speak of in terms of naval or even land based means. Compare that to the Salarians, a Council species with a fleet, military training, and the premiere Special Forces organization in the galaxy. The safe practical tactical bet would be to agree with the Salarians, take the deal, and get their assets...especially since as others have pointed out from a certain point of view Wrex's demand is kind of selfish. Point 2 there are esentially three ways this can break down. Wrex and Bakara in joint leadership, Wrex alone, or Wreave...actually come to think of it I do not know if Wreave and Bakara can be within the same playthrough long term? But yeah basically with Wreave running things. Only one of these situations me/my Shepard supports a genophage cure without reservation. Bakara represents a calming influence on Wrex the yin to his yang...but even by hismself as much as Shepard might like him Wrex still makes references to 'reclaiming the glory of the ancients' so could be just as tyranical in the long term as anyone else, thus such reservations might lead Shepard to not wantintg to cure the genophage...and Wreave is pretty much straight out. Yes, Wreav and Bakara can continue on together regardless of whether or not Shepard cures the genophage. Bakara's life is dependent only on whether or not Maelon's data was saved or destroyed. Wreav doesn't go ballistic like Wrex if the genophage cure is sabotaged. On earth, he just wonders why he hasn't gotten Bakara pregnant yet. You will have to shoot Mordin, however, to sabotage the cure if Bakara lives even though Wrex isn't alive.
ETA: I also think Mordin has to survive ME2 for Bakara to live.
|
|
TheEmptyRoad
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 210 Likes: 438
inherit
2743
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:48:58 GMT
438
TheEmptyRoad
210
January 2017
theemptyroad
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by TheEmptyRoad on Jun 19, 2021 3:07:39 GMT
I think people don't give the Systems Alliance enough credit. I see many folks on this forum wishing they could side with Cerberus in 3, ignoring the fact that there were in fact people in the Alliance who took Shepard's warnings seriously, namely Admiral Hackett.
Who takes the lead in resisting the Reapers galaxy-wide? Who takes charge and begins construction on the Crucible? Hackett and the mere remnants of the Alliance Military. All resistance to the Reapers is coordinated and led by the Alliance, not the Council.
Sure the others come to help, but everything is routed through Alliance Command, such as it is.
The Asari? The race who supposedly are the dominant race of this cycle and de facto leaders of the Council? Pfft, don't make me laugh, when the chips were down they waited until Thessia itself was being invaded to take any real substantive action with their fleets and Commandos.
Also, I've seen just about every argument in favor and against the genophage on this forum and frankly I think both sides have valid concerns, however I approach the issue not from the perspective of the council races, but Humanity. Who is it that Urdnot Wrex (because lets be honest, curing the genophage with Wreav in charge is rather dumb) thanks? Refers to as his Brother/Sister? Shepard, a Human. He even offers Humans a place on Tuchanka and Krogan colonies due to their assistance in curing the genophage.
Who is it who helps the Quarians out of their jam? The Alliance, in the form of the Normandy. Who (if spared) owes the very existence of her species to Humanity? The Rachni Queen. Three Major non-council races indebted to Humans.
My Shepard is savvy enough to see that the Council System as it existed prior to the Reaper Invasion will not survive the War. Having the Krogan alone feeling friendly enough with Humanity to offer them places on their worlds is a huge boon, but if you include the Quarians and Rachni? Humanity stands to gain a lot post Reaper War if it plays its cards right and becomes the arbiter between the races.
The Systems Alliance, thanks to its relative power and status as the 'new kids on the block' - aka little preexisting grudges from centuries ago - is in a prime position to form the Nexus of new galactic civilization and government. A new Hegemon if you will, perhaps not the extent of an Empire but certainly replacing the Asari as the new dominant race politically.
Cerberus is ultimately shortsighted in this regard. Don't reject the alien's game, beat them at it.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Nov 26, 2024 11:18:05 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jun 24, 2021 14:45:44 GMT
I think people don't give the Systems Alliance enough credit. I see many folks on this forum wishing they could side with Cerberus in 3, ignoring the fact that there were in fact people in the Alliance who took Shepard's warnings seriously, namely Admiral Hackett. Who takes the lead in resisting the Reapers galaxy-wide? Who takes charge and begins construction on the Crucible? Hackett and the mere remnants of the Alliance Military. All resistance to the Reapers is coordinated and led by the Alliance, not the Council. Sure the others come to help, but everything is routed through Alliance Command, such as it is. The Asari? The race who supposedly are the dominant race of this cycle and de facto leaders of the Council? Pfft, don't make me laugh, when the chips were down they waited until Thessia itself was being invaded to take any real substantive action with their fleets and Commandos. Also, I've seen just about every argument in favor and against the genophage on this forum and frankly I think both sides have valid concerns, however I approach the issue not from the perspective of the council races, but Humanity. Who is it that Urdnot Wrex (because lets be honest, curing the genophage with Wreav in charge is rather dumb) thanks? Refers to as his Brother/Sister? Shepard, a Human. He even offers Humans a place on Tuchanka and Krogan colonies due to their assistance in curing the genophage. Who is it who helps the Quarians out of their jam? The Alliance, in the form of the Normandy. Who (if spared) owes the very existence of her species to Humanity? The Rachni Queen. Three Major non-council races indebted to Humans. My Shepard is savvy enough to see that the Council System as it existed prior to the Reaper Invasion will not survive the War. Having the Krogan alone feeling friendly enough with Humanity to offer them places on their worlds is a huge boon, but if you include the Quarians and Rachni? Humanity stands to gain a lot post Reaper War if it plays its cards right and becomes the arbiter between the races. The Systems Alliance, thanks to its relative power and status as the 'new kids on the block' - aka little preexisting grudges from centuries ago - is in a prime position to form the Nexus of new galactic civilization and government. A new Hegemon if you will, perhaps not the extent of an Empire but certainly replacing the Asari as the new dominant race politically. Cerberus is ultimately shortsighted in this regard. Don't reject the alien's game, beat them at it. I could tolerate the ascension of humanity to galactic preeminence post-Reaper war if the narrative wasn't already making our species out to be the 'golden child' of the universe from game one. A maverick race that focuses on building alliances; often from unlikely places; who comes out at the conclusion of the Reaper invasion as leader or diplomatic powerhouse would be more tenable if it was't already woven into the background lore that us humans were special from the word go. At the time of ME 1, and despite only being part of galactic civilization for less than 30 years, we are already economically outpacing the Volus. We are apparently the only species in a thousands-year-old interstellar society to come up with the concept of carriers as warships. We are also freely permitted to skirt Citadel law concerning both AI research as well as genetic modification (in the form of Medi-gel) with barely more than a finger wag from the Council. We are granted our own personal embassy office on the Presidium; a feat that other member races have been waiting centuries for (even the Volus and Elcor have to share a much smaller space for their repective embassies). And all of this is even before the narrative has humanity being considered for the prospect of Spectre membership; something that no other non-Council species has been allowed to do. Moving into ME 2 and it is revealed that humans are, in fact, scientifically proven to be genetically superior to all other lifeforms in the galaxy. It is this 'genetic diversity' that enables humans to be simply better at everything they set their hands to do than the other species of the galaxy. We have better soldiers, biotics, entrepreneurs, architects, scientists, etc. because we are just born better. Eugenics is not only true in this universe, but it is also apparently something to be desired. It's with all that baggage that I can't really stomach humanity and the Alliance becoming the new leaders of the galaxy at the conclusion of ME 3 because its not something that feels particularly hard fought for so much as expected due to how the narrative set humans up on a pedestal from day one. It's like Superman beating up normal bank robbers, of course you know he's going to win. He's superman. To be honest, I think a much better conclusion to the third game would have been that in activating the Crucible (regardless of EMS) that the Earth is destroyed. That the center of human power would be forever lost but, depending on the choices you made and the allies you got along the way, would determine how well things would settle out for our species at the end. We could still be the new leaders of the galaxy but it wouldn't be simply because we were just naturally superior to everyone else but rather based on how we worked with others, getting them to come to our aid and see our way of thinking.
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Jul 4, 2021 21:02:02 GMT
I'm still kind of new to the Mass Effect section of the forum so I don't know what's unpopular. But this might be an unpopular opinion but I liked the Synthesis ending. The way EDI makes it sound is like the galaxy has experienced peace and an age of enlightenment. She made it sound like utopia and to me that's not a bad thing.
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Jul 4, 2021 21:14:00 GMT
I'm still kind of new to the Mass Effect section of the forum so I don't know what's unpopular. But this might be an unpopular opinion but I liked the Synthesis ending. The way EDI makes it sound is like the galaxy has experienced peace and an age of enlightenment. She made it sound like utopia and to me that's not a bad thing. You probably stated the most unpopular opinion ever on this entire board. 
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 4, 2021 21:18:47 GMT
I'm still kind of new to the Mass Effect section of the forum so I don't know what's unpopular. But this might be an unpopular opinion but I liked the Synthesis ending. The way EDI makes it sound is like the galaxy has experienced peace and an age of enlightenment. She made it sound like utopia and to me that's not a bad thing. Just remember, Mac Walters loves you.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 4, 2021 21:23:19 GMT
I'm still kind of new to the Mass Effect section of the forum so I don't know what's unpopular. But this might be an unpopular opinion but I liked the Synthesis ending. The way EDI makes it sound is like the galaxy has experienced peace and an age of enlightenment. She made it sound like utopia and to me that's not a bad thing. The thing about utopias is that they tend to be lies. |
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Jul 4, 2021 21:30:26 GMT
I'm still kind of new to the Mass Effect section of the forum so I don't know what's unpopular. But this might be an unpopular opinion but I liked the Synthesis ending. The way EDI makes it sound is like the galaxy has experienced peace and an age of enlightenment. She made it sound like utopia and to me that's not a bad thing. You probably stated the most unpopular opinion ever on this entire board. Well I thought the when I got close enough to the beam I would get three choices Destroy, Control, or Synthesis instead Shepard threw himself into the beam resulting in the Synthesis ending. In my current playthrough I'm going for the Destroy ending.
|
|
