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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 4:50:47 GMT
Ander's romance Friendshipped is creepy as heck. Seriously, it's so creepy... and he's so clingy, it's not like Alistair, it's not (and i say this sincerely), I must say, rivalmancery is the best course of Action for Ander's. I'd also like to say that Fenris's rivalmance is wonderful, but nothing short of Isabela's rivalry romance (I love it, but I'm well aware of her flaws though  . It's good to romance someone who isn't as messed up in the head as the others in the city.) I can perfectly imagine it, I think the friendship path always encourages the character's flaws in a really bad way, and with corrupted Justice in the middle of both, the whole pie must be hard to swallow. But I'm really curious about it Yeah, Isabela is like Varric, she gives a damn about drama  I wished Bianca doesn't exist to romance Varric, that dwarf is gold, wasted opportunity in Inquisition. Lol, it was my first playthrough  . Anders with a friendshipped fem Mage. I didn't know it was creepy, until i did it, and Fenris's romance, both of which felt insufficient to me, until i started playing as a Male Hawke.
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Post by straykat on Nov 7, 2016 4:55:08 GMT
Ladyhawke with Anders.... and she eventually killed him. Personally I don't think I need to explain why. Let my Hawke brood alone. 
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 4:56:29 GMT
Ander's romance Friendshipped is creepy as heck. Seriously, it's so creepy... and he's so clingy, it's not like Alistair, it's not (and i say this sincerely), I must say, rivalmancery is the best course of Action for Ander's. I'd also like to say that Fenris's rivalmance is wonderful, but nothing short of Isabela's rivalry romance (I love it, but I'm well aware of her flaws though  . It's good to romance someone who isn't as messed up in the head as the others in the city.) I think, the rivalmance is creepy with Anders. This will slowly kill him. This fact is creepy enough, as I see. I like Anders friendmance, I like, that he want to move in Hawke's home. But if you like kill him, the rivalmance is perfect for you. Yes, Fenris rivalry is very good, and more reliable with (pro-)mage, but the friendship also, good. Lol, you do know i did Ander's romance first? It was really creepy, saying he'd drown in blood to save my Hawke. Now, that was creepy. If you do Ander's friendship romance, your allowing Justice to take away something away from Ander's (common sense, control, etc), and with Rivalmance, at least Ander's has some measure of control over Justice, who was slowly taking over his mind when your doing Frienshipping.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 4:58:33 GMT
Ander's romance Friendshipped is creepy as heck. Seriously, it's so creepy... and he's so clingy, it's not like Alistair, it's not (and i say this sincerely), I must say, rivalmancery is the best course of Action for Ander's. I'd also like to say that Fenris's rivalmance is wonderful, but nothing short of Isabela's rivalry romance (I love it, but I'm well aware of her flaws though  . It's good to romance someone who isn't as messed up in the head as the others in the city.) I can perfectly imagine it, I think the friendship path always encourages the character's flaws in a really bad way, and with corrupted Justice in the middle of both, the whole pie must be hard to swallow. But I'm really curious about it Yeah, Isabela is like Varric, she gives a damn about drama  I wished Bianca doesn't exist to romance Varric, that dwarf is gold, wasted opportunity in Inquisition. Don't believe, that the friendmance with Anders is creepy... much more calm and happy. The point is: Justice will don't disappear until Anders' death. If you want a nice tragedy, your way the rivalry, but if you want some hope for a happy love, your way the friendship with Anders.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 5:09:02 GMT
I think, the rivalmance is creepy with Anders. This will slowly kill him. This fact is creepy enough, as I see. I like Anders friendmance, I like, that he want to move in Hawke's home. But if you like kill him, the rivalmance is perfect for you. Yes, Fenris rivalry is very good, and more reliable with (pro-)mage, but the friendship also, good. Lol, you do know i did Ander's romance first? It was really creepy, saying he'd drown in blood to save my Hawke. Now, that was creepy. If you do Ander's friendship romance, your allowing Justice to take away something away from Ander's (common sense, control, etc), and with Rivalmance, at least Ander's has some measure of control over Justice, who was slowly taking over his mind when your doing Frienshipping. This is simple not true. The rivalry with Hawke AND Justice will kill him slowly and cruelly. He will lost the control over his mind, and will lose himself and finally die. This is the end of rivalry. On the friendship path he have don't lose the controll over himself. Do you think, he don't wanted to do, what he done? But yes. He wanted.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 5:19:24 GMT
Lol, you do know i did Ander's romance first? It was really creepy, saying he'd drown in blood to save my Hawke. Now, that was creepy. If you do Ander's friendship romance, your allowing Justice to take away something away from Ander's (common sense, control, etc), and with Rivalmance, at least Ander's has some measure of control over Justice, who was slowly taking over his mind when your doing Frienshipping. This is simple not true. The rivalry with Hawke AND Justice will kill him slowly and cruelly. He will lost the control over his mind, and will lose himself and finally die. This is the end of rivalry. On the friendship path he have don't lose the controll over himself. Do you think, he don't wanted to do, what he done? But yes. He wanted. So your blaming Hawke for killing himself through rivalmancery? It's not their fault when Justice takes away memories for his mind, it's not their fault that Hawke points out that it was a mistake to even have a spirt in his head. Yeah, go ahead think it's Hawke's fault for those things. It's not, and yeah, he'll lose his mind eventually, rivalmancery or friendship - it's not a matter of debate, it's just one takes longer than the other.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 5:28:18 GMT
This is simple not true. The rivalry with Hawke AND Justice will kill him slowly and cruelly. He will lost the control over his mind, and will lose himself and finally die. This is the end of rivalry. On the friendship path he have don't lose the controll over himself. Do you think, he don't wanted to do, what he done? But yes. He wanted. So your blaming Hawke for killing himself through rivalmancery? It's not their fault when Justice takes away memories for his mind, it's not their fault that Hawke points out that it was a mistake to even have a spirt in his head. Yeah, go ahead think it's Hawke's fault for those things. It's not, and yeah, he'll lose his mind eventually, rivalmancery or friendship - it's not a matter of debate, it's just one takes longer than the other. Yes. Clearly. Justice don't want to take Anders' mind and memories, and he just appear when he feel some danger. I understand, why rivalHawke attack Justice (because s/he think, this is unnatural and dangerous), but I think, this only makes things worse, not better. He have chance for a longer and more calm life with harmony with Justice in friendship. In rivalry he will fear from Justice, and Justice will not trust him. Yes, not excluded, that in both case he will lost himself, sometime, and Hawke will forced to kill him. But in friendship this is less of a chance.
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Post by phoray on Nov 7, 2016 5:33:31 GMT
So your blaming Hawke for killing himself through rivalmancery? It's not their fault when Justice takes away memories for his mind, it's not their fault that Hawke points out that it was a mistake to even have a spirt in his head. Yeah, go ahead think it's Hawke's fault for those things. It's not, and yeah, he'll lose his mind eventually, rivalmancery or friendship - it's not a matter of debate, it's just one takes longer than the other. Yes. Clearly. Justice don't want to take Anders' mind and memories, and he just appear when he feel some danger. He have chance for a longer and more calm life with harmony with Justice in friendship. In rivalry he will fear from Justice, and Justice will not trust him. Yes, not excluded, that in both case he will lost himself, sometime, and Hawke will forced to kill him. But in friendship this is less of a chance.  Justice shows up at least once when there is no danger just to yell at Hawke. The only danger HAwke poses is that of interfering with Justice's control of Anders. I swing back and forth on this point, but Vengeance has a lot of characteristics with a demon. He is possessive of his host. Possessiveness and Concern overlap a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 5:42:08 GMT
So your blaming Hawke for killing himself through rivalmancery? It's not their fault when Justice takes away memories for his mind, it's not their fault that Hawke points out that it was a mistake to even have a spirt in his head. Yeah, go ahead think it's Hawke's fault for those things. It's not, and yeah, he'll lose his mind eventually, rivalmancery or friendship - it's not a matter of debate, it's just one takes longer than the other. Yes. This is clearly. He have chance for a longer and more calm life with harmony with Justice in friendship. In rivalry he will fear from Justice, and Justice will not trust him. Yes, not excluded, that in both case he will lost himself, sometime, and Hawke will forced to kill him. But in friendship this is less of a chance. Yeah, so I suppose doing Rivalry doesn't matter much to the current situation. And btw, it is creepy. It realllyyyy is, you look through from a normal non-fan perspective, his aggressiveness towards Hawke is alarming, as well as him falling in love with Hawke. That's creepy in it's self.... Meh, some can be attracted to aggressiveness, but I'm not...
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 5:48:20 GMT
Yes. Clearly. Justice don't want to take Anders' mind and memories, and he just appear when he feel some danger. He have chance for a longer and more calm life with harmony with Justice in friendship. In rivalry he will fear from Justice, and Justice will not trust him. Yes, not excluded, that in both case he will lost himself, sometime, and Hawke will forced to kill him. But in friendship this is less of a chance.  Justice shows up at least once when there is no danger just to yell at Hawke. The only danger HAwke poses is that of interfering with Justice's control of Anders. I swing back and forth on this point, but Vengeance has a lot of characteristics with a demon. He is possessive of his host. Possessiveness and Concern overlap a lot. At Ella? Ella called him Demon, and this was a stressful moment. And Hawke was able to calm him quite easily. Or when Hawke try to convince him, that the peaceful solution is exist? But this was a danger on his viewpoint. Hawke tried to stop him to accomplish their goals. Suppose that Vengeance is a demon. In this case the rivalry only helps to come out, but still cruel. In friendship Hawke still have the knife to kill him, because he possible dangerous, but don't torture him. (But I'm not sure, that Justice is a demon. We will see. Or not...)
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 5:51:28 GMT
Yes. This is clearly. He have chance for a longer and more calm life with harmony with Justice in friendship. In rivalry he will fear from Justice, and Justice will not trust him. Yes, not excluded, that in both case he will lost himself, sometime, and Hawke will forced to kill him. But in friendship this is less of a chance. Yeah, so I suppose doing Rivalry doesn't matter much to the current situation. And btw, it is creepy. It realllyyyy is, you look through from a normal non-fan perspective, his aggressiveness towards Hawke is alarming, as well as him falling in love with Hawke. That's creepy in it's self.... Meh, some can be attracted to aggressiveness, but I'm not... This is the point. The rivalry don't change anything, only torture him. When he agressive with Hawke on friendship path? I can't remember that moment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 5:55:47 GMT
Yeah, so I suppose doing Rivalry doesn't matter much to the current situation. And btw, it is creepy. It realllyyyy is, you look through from a normal non-fan perspective, his aggressiveness towards Hawke is alarming, as well as him falling in love with Hawke. That's creepy in it's self.... Meh, some can be attracted to aggressiveness, but I'm not... This is the point. The rivalry ndon't change anything, only torture him. When he agressive with Hawke on friendship path? I can't remember that moment. Nor does friendship. Friendship is there to say that it's alright to commit deeds to terrosim and to forgot things suddenly - aka, your supporting Justice in his decision to take over Anders mind. "I'll drown in blood to save you, Hawke." - that is creepy...
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 6:16:49 GMT
This is the point. The rivalry ndon't change anything, only torture him. When he agressive with Hawke on friendship path? I can't remember that moment. Nor does friendship. Friendship is there to say that it's alright to commit deeds to terrosim and to forgot things suddenly - aka, your supporting Justice in his decision to take over Anders mind. "I'll drown in blood to save you, Hawke." - that is creepy... My Hawkes agreed with him, In Kirkwall doesn't exist the peaceful solution. This sentence exist in rivalry too. I checked on YouTube. Then: why the friendship path is creepier, than the rivalry?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 6:18:11 GMT
Nor does friendship. Friendship is there to say that it's alright to commit deeds to terrosim and to forgot things suddenly - aka, your supporting Justice in his decision to take over Anders mind. "I'll drown in blood to save you, Hawke." - that is creepy... My Hawkes agreed with him, In Kirkwall doesn't exist the peaceful solution. This sentence exist in rivalry too. I checked on YouTube. Then: why the friendship path is creepier, than the rivalry? So either way, Ander's romance is creepy. Good to know.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 6:20:27 GMT
My Hawkes agreed with him, In Kirkwall doesn't exist the peaceful solution. This sentence exist in rivalry too. I checked on YouTube. Then: why the friendship path is creepier, than the rivalry? So either way, Ander's romance is creepy. Good to know. Yes, we can say. He is not an easy guy. Isabela much more better to you. You don't rivalry with Anders yet?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 6:30:31 GMT
So either way, Ander's romance is creepy. Good to know. Yes, we can say. He is not an easy guy. Isabela much more better to you. You don't rivalry with Anders yet? Meh, neither is better than the other. Isabela has flaws, one of which I'd agree with the critics on. Nah, I do, now. I use to not.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 7:14:26 GMT
Yes, we can say. He is not an easy guy. Isabela much more better to you. You don't rivalry with Anders yet? Meh, neither is better than the other. Isabela has flaws, one of which I'd agree with the critics on. Nah, I do, now. I use to not. Yes, but Isabela better to you, than Anders, because you likes Isabela, and Anders annoy you, or not?  On rivalry path he show more about his work, and Justice, as I saw in video, but Anders is sadder than on friendship pat. Honestly, I don't like. I think, they have some chance a happy end at mage side, but this is simple sad to me.
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Post by phoray on Nov 7, 2016 12:09:52 GMT
 Justice shows up at least once when there is no danger just to yell at Hawke. The only danger HAwke poses is that of interfering with Justice's control of Anders. I swing back and forth on this point, but Vengeance has a lot of characteristics with a demon. He is possessive of his host. Possessiveness and Concern overlap a lot. At Ella? Ella called him Demon, and this was a stressful moment. And Hawke was able to calm him quite easily. Or when Hawke try to convince him, that the peaceful solution is exist? But this was a danger on his viewpoint. Hawke tried to stop him to accomplish their goals. Suppose that Vengeance is a demon. In this case the rivalry only helps to come out, but still cruel. In friendship Hawke still have the knife to kill him, because he possible dangerous, but don't torture him. (But I'm not sure, that Justice is a demon. We will see. Or not...) No. It wasn't during the Ella scene. On the rivalry path, at one point Hawke is just talking to Anders in his clinic. There is no immediate danger. And Justice comes out just to tell Hawke to leave and never come back. Anders' comes to, and resigned and exhausted looking, asks what Justice just said while he blacked out. I only remember the sarcastic reply. Hawke: "Justice doesn't like me much." This is why, for all Anders says he doesn't know where he ends and Justice begins, I feel that, on he rivalry path, they are two different people. It's one thing to get mad and go a little Hulk Smash on the bad guys. But to actually BLACK OUT and have another voice/spirit tell your beloved to LEAVE shows TWO minds, not one. ^^^ Found it. Best conversation ever. Despite his claim that he is Anders, he obviously isn't.
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Post by Beregond5 on Nov 7, 2016 13:26:29 GMT
Okay, I need to put my thoughts into this: why is Anders' declaration of 'I'll drown us all in blood to keep you safe' any creepier than being with a guy whose MO is to rip people's hearts out whenever he's protecting Hawke? And I say that even though I like said magical-fisting guy to bits.
And let's not forget two things. Another of our companions had a spirit inside them and yet she didn't seem to lose herself because they were at peace with one another. Anders is also the first to admit in the first act that he often loses control because of *his* anger, not the spirit's.
The question is, how *you*, as the player, perceive the situation, and the answer is given much later by Solas. If you follow the Friendship path, you perceive the spirit within Anders as good, as Justice. If you go Rivalry path, you perceive it as a demon and wrong, thus Vengeance. And so the spirit will act accordingly. That is, Anders is still himself in Friendship because they aren't warring, but in Rivalry, he's taken over.
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Post by Tekehu's booty on Nov 7, 2016 13:45:49 GMT
I can perfectly imagine it, I think the friendship path always encourages the character's flaws in a really bad way, and with corrupted Justice in the middle of both, the whole pie must be hard to swallow. But I'm really curious about it Yeah, Isabela is like Varric, she gives a damn about drama  I wished Bianca doesn't exist to romance Varric, that dwarf is gold, wasted opportunity in Inquisition. Don't believe, that the friendmance with Anders is creepy... much more calm and happy. The point is: Justice will don't disappear until Anders' death. If you want a nice tragedy, your way the rivalry, but if you want some hope for a happy love, your way the friendship with Anders. I think the opposite, the rivalry path is like a good friend telling to another friend what he's doing wrong. It's normal that friendship Anders is happier because nobody are telling him what are his flaws and how to amend them, it's like Hawke and Anders (Fenris, Isabela and Merrill too) would be in this happy world where no flaws would ever existed because the main character always is in your side. The wonderful thing about this game (or saga) is that many characters are broken and have flaws, they are real
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 15:46:40 GMT
At Ella? Ella called him Demon, and this was a stressful moment. And Hawke was able to calm him quite easily. Or when Hawke try to convince him, that the peaceful solution is exist? But this was a danger on his viewpoint. Hawke tried to stop him to accomplish their goals. Suppose that Vengeance is a demon. In this case the rivalry only helps to come out, but still cruel. In friendship Hawke still have the knife to kill him, because he possible dangerous, but don't torture him. (But I'm not sure, that Justice is a demon. We will see. Or not...) No. It wasn't during the Ella scene. On the rivalry path, at one point Hawke is just talking to Anders in his clinic. There is no immediate danger. And Justice comes out just to tell Hawke to leave and never come back. Anders' comes to, and resigned and exhausted looking, asks what Justice just said while he blacked out. I only remember the sarcastic reply. Hawke: "Justice doesn't like me much." This is why, for all Anders says he doesn't know where he ends and Justice begins, I feel that, on he rivalry path, they are two different people. It's one thing to get mad and go a little Hulk Smash on the bad guys. But to actually BLACK OUT and have another voice/spirit tell your beloved to LEAVE shows TWO minds, not one.
^^^
Found it. Best conversation ever. Despite his claim that he is Anders, he obviously isn't. Yes. I wrote about this scene, what you linked here. This was a danger from his viewpoint: Hawke wanted to convince Anders, that the peaceful solution exist, and Anders became uncertain. (We know, this is not right, no peaceful solution exist in Kirkwall, Anders was right in this scene, just Hawke hadn't understand him.) This scene is creepy. In rivalry I like better, than Hawke don't help Anders in to distract Elthina. I don't like, when hes mind disintegrate, and start blame only Justice. But this is only me, I know, not a popular opinion.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 15:57:22 GMT
Don't believe, that the friendmance with Anders is creepy... much more calm and happy. The point is: Justice will don't disappear until Anders' death. If you want a nice tragedy, your way the rivalry, but if you want some hope for a happy love, your way the friendship with Anders. I think the opposite, the rivalry path is like a good friend telling to another friend what he's doing wrong. It's normal that friendship Anders is happier because nobody are telling him what are his flaws and how to amend them, it's like Hawke and Anders (Fenris, Isabela and Merrill too) would be in this happy world where no flaws would ever existed because the main character always is in your side. The wonderful thing about this game (or saga) is that many characters are broken and have flaws, they are real Maybe Fenris rampage a lot, but he is calm down, and dont blame the magic/mages anymore. So, in Fenris case, the rivalry is speed up the process to get rid of his anger. Isabela will be better person, but Anders only crushed. He will not be better person, he just will be ready for the death. I think, this is what the writers wanted.
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Post by phoray on Nov 7, 2016 16:13:39 GMT
No. It wasn't during the Ella scene. On the rivalry path, at one point Hawke is just talking to Anders in his clinic. There is no immediate danger. And Justice comes out just to tell Hawke to leave and never come back. Anders' comes to, and resigned and exhausted looking, asks what Justice just said while he blacked out. I only remember the sarcastic reply. Hawke: "Justice doesn't like me much." This is why, for all Anders says he doesn't know where he ends and Justice begins, I feel that, on he rivalry path, they are two different people. It's one thing to get mad and go a little Hulk Smash on the bad guys. But to actually BLACK OUT and have another voice/spirit tell your beloved to LEAVE shows TWO minds, not one.
^^^
Found it. Best conversation ever. Despite his claim that he is Anders, he obviously isn't. Yes. I wrote about this scene, what you linked here. This was a danger from his viewpoint: Hawke wanted to convince Anders, that the peaceful solution exist, and Anders became uncertain. (We know, this is not right, no peaceful solution exist in Kirkwall, Anders was right in this scene, just Hawke hadn't understand him.) This scene is creepy. In rivalry I like better, than Hawke don't help Anders in to distract Elthina. I don't like, when hes mind disintegrate, and start blame only Justice. But this is only me, I know, not a popular opinion. Sorry, I hadn't noticed you mentioning the second scene. But your initial argument was that Justice is Anders and that it was only danger that fuels Justices takeovers. The only danger in that scene is that Anders might not do what JUSTICE wants. And my statement was that Justice is too possessive to be a mere spirit.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 16:19:33 GMT
Yes. I wrote about this scene, what you linked here. This was a danger from his viewpoint: Hawke wanted to convince Anders, that the peaceful solution exist, and Anders became uncertain. (We know, this is not right, no peaceful solution exist in Kirkwall, Anders was right in this scene, just Hawke hadn't understand him.) This scene is creepy. In rivalry I like better, than Hawke don't help Anders in to distract Elthina. I don't like, when hes mind disintegrate, and start blame only Justice. But this is only me, I know, not a popular opinion. Sorry, I hadn't noticed you mentioning the second scene. But your initial argument was that Justice is Anders and that it was only danger that fuels Justices takeovers. The only danger in that scene is that Anders might not do what JUSTICE wants. And my statement was that Justice is too possessive to be a mere spirit. ...or: Anders called him. He was certain in himself, when he tried to explain his causes to Hawke, but Hawke don't wanted to understand these. To me, Anders can not seem to convinced. Rather seemed he retired. We know, that Anders not a good conflict-tolerant, at least he wasn't good in this before Justice.
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Sah291
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 7, 2016 16:22:16 GMT
Don't believe, that the friendmance with Anders is creepy... much more calm and happy. The point is: Justice will don't disappear until Anders' death. If you want a nice tragedy, your way the rivalry, but if you want some hope for a happy love, your way the friendship with Anders. I think the opposite, the rivalry path is like a good friend telling to another friend what he's doing wrong. It's normal that friendship Anders is happier because nobody are telling him what are his flaws and how to amend them, it's like Hawke and Anders (Fenris, Isabela and Merrill too) would be in this happy world where no flaws would ever existed because the main character always is in your side. The wonderful thing about this game (or saga) is that many characters are broken and have flaws, they are real I think that's the writer intention, but in Anders' case, the rivalry comes off a lot more extreme than some of the others, so it does feel more cruel to me. I think the friendship paths are still challenging the companions to question their reality, it's just more subtle. I noticed this a lot with Merrill. Hawke can still gently nudge her on friendship, or give tough love in rivalry, but either way Hawke is encouraging her to confront her problems in some way. This was kind of what I was getting at in the Anders thread about sarcastic Hawke.... like, if Hawke agrees with his cause and doesn't think Justice was a demon, Hawke is still trying to nudge Anders to question himself and his beliefs. But in friendship, it's about encouraging him to reconcile the two parts of his personality and accept who he is now.
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