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Post by suikoden on Jun 16, 2017 21:56:05 GMT
It doesn’t matter what option you pick - you almost always get a sassy delivery. That’s why the writing is so devisive - i guess if you like bathroom humour and snarky dialogue, then yeah, the writing is top-notch. A lot of people don’t. Poor design decision to go all or nothing in this regard I guess. You're basing that on how many tries at making different selections from the very beginning of the game and then selecting the same line to evaluate the different lines that trigger at that point? Because what happens is that, several conversations later, a line that you selected way earlier changes the options you have available to you and the actual verbal dialogue that goes with it. That's why making such an absolute assessment as saying one "always" gets a sassy delivery is inaccurate based, as it is, on insufficient actual data. Part of the reason the player base is so divided in their opinions is that the game has so many options that affect individual lines of dialogue that none of are likely experiencing exactly the same game. In some circumstances, even using a different squad mate can lead to a totally different conversation happening. Well I played the 10-hour demo, and after the first couple hours, started using only the serious replies... which were filled with sass and snark. So from my experience, this tone pervades all of the dialogue options. Even if what’s said changes, how these lines are said/delivered, does not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 22:07:08 GMT
You're basing that on how many tries at making different selections from the very beginning of the game and then selecting the same line to evaluate the different lines that trigger at that point? Because what happens is that, several conversations later, a line that you selected way earlier changes the options you have available to you and the actual verbal dialogue that goes with it. That's why making such an absolute assessment as saying one "always" gets a sassy delivery is inaccurate based, as it is, on insufficient actual data. Part of the reason the player base is so divided in their opinions is that the game has so many options that affect individual lines of dialogue that none of are likely experiencing exactly the same game. In some circumstances, even using a different squad mate can lead to a totally different conversation happening. Well I played the 10-hour demo, and after the first couple hours, started using only the serious replies... which were filled with sass and snark. So from my experience, this tone pervades all of the dialogue options. Even if what’s said changes, how these lines are said/delivered, does not. ... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy over the other 90% of the game and in every alternative line selection in the game. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 16, 2017 22:14:13 GMT
Well I played the 10-hour demo, and after the first couple hours, started using only the serious replies... which were filled with sass and snark. So from my experience, this tone pervades all of the dialogue options. Even if what’s said changes, how these lines are said/delivered, does not. ... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. I’m not playing another 90 hours because 30 hours in it gets lets snarky. That’s awful design. And unrealistic. It’s not like they change writers 30 hours in. Can you honestly say that the game takes a serious turn at any point? That characters stop trying to act like they’re in Guardians of the Galaxy? I’m sure there are parts of the game where the snark is dialed down, but the overall tone of the game, i would think based on my experience, is consistently sassy and out of place within the context of the plot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 22:23:46 GMT
... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. I’m not playing another 90 hours because 30 hours in it gets lets snarky. That’s awful design. And unrealistic. It’s not like they change writers 30 hours in. Can you honestly say that the game takes a serious turn at any point? That characters stop trying to act like they’re in Guardians of the Galaxy? I’m sure there are parts of the game where the snark is dialed down, but the overall tone of the game, i would think based on my experience, is consistently sassy and out of place within the context of the plot. Honestly, I don't care if you make that assessment for yourself based on such limited data... but you should be aware that, purely mathematically, you have a high probability of simply being in error. You have no basis to blanket criticize the design of the game because you have insufficient data on which to base that claim. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 16, 2017 22:27:21 GMT
then just pick the options on the right then. Complaints like this is like saying sassy hawk is the one.thing that ruin da2. It doesn’t matter what option you pick - you almost always get a sassy delivery. That’s why the writing is so devisive - i guess if you like bathroom humour and snarky dialogue, then yeah, the writing is top-notch. A lot of people don’t. Poor design decision to go all or nothing in this regard I guess. no you don't. I've actually done this and you don't get any sassy anything. Ryder is serious when ever you pick right. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 16, 2017 22:28:03 GMT
Yet that’s how you come across when you say outlandish things that everybody outside of a dozen people on this forum would shake their head at. I’ll point it out the next time this happens. So liking the game and defending it is outlandish? To him? Yup. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 16, 2017 23:14:45 GMT
ive only played DA 2 on that list and to.me DA O was Grindy as hell, worse cast in a BW game, worse groups of antagonists in a BW game. Still had a really.good story and amazing sidequests. Well then saying it’s the worst BioWare experience is hyperbolic then, isn’t it. If anything, it shows you have a limited range of gaming experiences. Maybe you just need to frame your arguements better, because they often come off as sarcasm when I know you don’t mean them to. But you’re nowhere near as bad as Kabraxal. It’s as if Geralt did unimaginable, unspeakable things to him. And Link watched (but did nothing). not really. I liked the game. I liked the game quite a bit. Its a tier 3 game. But considering its the *only* tier 3 game I've played by bioware, the rest being tier 1 and 2, it is the worse. |
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Post by mugwump v1 on Jun 16, 2017 23:15:44 GMT
Well I played the 10-hour demo, and after the first couple hours, started using only the serious replies... which were filled with sass and snark. So from my experience, this tone pervades all of the dialogue options. Even if what’s said changes, how these lines are said/delivered, does not. ... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy over the other 90% of the game and in every alternative line selection in the game. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 16, 2017 23:51:14 GMT
... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy over the other 90% of the game and in every alternative line selection in the game. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. is 'accomplishment' really the best yard stick to judge a character by? Pretty much every single Character in the game...except drack and maybe Lexi...are there precisely because they haven't accomplished anything. I mean if you don't like that you don't have to, but it seems bioware wasn't interested in telling a story you're interested in rather then any flaw with the work itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 23:56:56 GMT
... an estimation based on playing one runthrough of a 10-hour demo... and you're extrapolating that the delivery is "almost always" sassy over the other 90% of the game and in every alternative line selection in the game. Sure, you can try to make that assessment for yourself if you wish... but by basing it on such a low percentage of the available data, there is a high probability that your statement is inaccurate... at least more likely to be inaccurate than the contrary statements being made by players who have played far more thant 10-hours of this game. I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. |
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Post by abaris on Jun 16, 2017 23:59:46 GMT
Well then saying it’s the worst BioWare experience is hyperbolic then, isn’t it. For me it is Bioware's worst experience. But that doesn't say it's an all around bad game. It has it's moments, it's an overall good and solid game, but not something I'm itching to replay once I'm finished. That's a first with Bioware games going by my own experience, I give you that. Which doesn't mean I agree with you, since by your own admission you only played the 10 hour demo. The game has it's moments, you can choose less cringy replies and my point of criticism is based on there only being two or three reply options at all, not on the fact that you can't avoid what the writers found to be humorous. Overall it's a nice asdventure. Not something I would call an RPG, based on my preferences. As it is with most adventures, it lacks in replayability, since I see no pointt in trying out something different. There aren't that many options to get a different experience. I blame the Jack of all Trades approach for that, and, my major point of criticism, that I don't feel the companions rising up to the same level as they have been in previous games. The OT as well as the DA series. For me that's even more obvious since after finishing Andromeda, I bought DAII. A game I have avoided so far, but since it's on sale, I was thinking what the heck. I always thought DAII, after playing the demo, this would make for the worst Bioware game ever. But what do you know, I was instantly immersed in a way I never managed with Andromeda. The reasons being companions, lead character and story. Which brings me back to the ten hour demo. You can't judge any game based on that. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 17, 2017 0:02:14 GMT
I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. is 'accomplishment' really the best yard stick to judge a character by? Pretty much every single Character in the game...except drack and maybe Lexi...are there precisely because they haven't accomplished anything. I mean if you don't like that you don't have to, but it seems bioware wasn't interested in telling a story you're interested in rather then any flaw with the work itself. Right... Cora accomplished nothing - Vetra was just some yahoo along for the ride... this is another one of your head-scratching comments. You could argue all the other characters act like they’ve accomplished nothing, because that’s how they act - I’d agree with that, to say pretty much every single character in the game hasn’t accomplished anything is... Wait for it... Hyperbole. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 17, 2017 0:07:47 GMT
I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The overall tone of the game, is snark and sass. Moment after moment, death defying situations = an attempt at a joke. The game is very light-hearted. Would you agree with that? The situations Ryder is confronted with in the game aren’t very light-hearted, and are rather catastrophic. Would you agree with that? Trying to mesh a light-hearted tone onto a game whose story isn’t exactly lighthearted - does that make sense? You seem to think it does. It doesn’t matter if every single line is snarky or not, the tone is lighthearted and attempts at humour are prevalent throughout in situations that aren’t funny and shouldn’t be treated as such because they don’t work. |
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Post by mugwump v1 on Jun 17, 2017 0:10:29 GMT
I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. That's fair Redux, though i'll say again that - on aggregate - the tone of the writing in Andromeda is much closer to what suikoden is suggesting than you give him credit for. |
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Post by abaris on Jun 17, 2017 0:14:57 GMT
Yeah, the overall tone of the writing wasn't to my liking either. But you can avoid it for the most part outside of certain cutscenes. My problem with that isn't based on lacking opportunities to avoid it, but on limiting your limited response options even further. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 17, 2017 0:21:45 GMT
Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The overall tone of the game, is snark and sass. Moment after moment, death defying situations = an attempt at a joke. The game is very light-hearted. Would you agree with that? The situations Ryder is confronted with in the game aren’t very light-hearted, and are rather catastrophic. Would you agree with that? Trying to mesh a light-hearted tone onto a game whose story isn’t exactly lighthearted - does that make sense? You seem to think it does. It doesn’t matter if every single line is snarky or not, the tone is lighthearted and attempts at humour are prevalent throughout in situations that aren’t funny and shouldn’t be treated as such because they don’t work. That description sounds like a typical season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer to me. You can argue that ME:A isn't as good as Buffy -- and I'd agree -- but that doesn't prove that the tone per se is a problem. Even if I accept your premise about how ME:A uses tone, the argument isn't working. |
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Post by kino on Jun 17, 2017 0:32:25 GMT
I played Andromeda from start to finish and agree with Suikoden wholeheartedly. For me, the only character that presented as anything like accomplished was Alec Ryder. Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. Don't forget Task: What He Would Have Wanted Anything but snark or sass in that one either. Damn...that quest, man. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 0:33:18 GMT
Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. That's fair Redux, though i'll say again that - on aggregate - the tone of the writing in Andromeda is much closer to what suikoden is suggesting than you give him credit for. How? The only thing I'm saying is that it's not an absolute thing. That exaggerating it into an absolute is a good part of the problem here. Now let's delve deeper. His premise is that, because the game isn't serious, it's bad. Do all RPGs have to be serious? I don't think so. This one's not... and I like it. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 17, 2017 0:34:33 GMT
Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. Don't forget Task: What He Would Have Wanted Anything but snark or sass in that one either. Damn...that quest, man. Are those examples of the norm, or the exception? Should I start listing examples of oddly-placed-based-on-the-situation snark and sassiness? Because there’s more of those. |
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Post by abaris on Jun 17, 2017 0:35:14 GMT
That description sounds like a typical season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer to me. You can argue that ME:A isn't as good as Buffy -- and I'd agree -- but that doesn't prove that the tone per se is a problem. Even if I accept your premise, the argument isn't working. There's a reason why I never managed to stomach more than one episode of Buffy. Good or bad Buffy isn't even a factor in my equation. Different strokes for different folks. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 17, 2017 0:41:09 GMT
That description sounds like a typical season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer to me. You can argue that ME:A isn't as good as Buffy -- and I'd agree -- but that doesn't prove that the tone per se is a problem. Even if I accept your premise, the argument isn't working. There's a reason why I never managed to stomach more than one episode of Buffy. Good or bad Buffy isn't even a factor in my equation. Different strokes for different folks. Right. As long as the argument is only that Buffy, or ME:A, doesn't suit your personal taste, there's nothing to object to. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2017 1:14:08 GMT
is 'accomplishment' really the best yard stick to judge a character by? Pretty much every single Character in the game...except drack and maybe Lexi...are there precisely because they haven't accomplished anything. I mean if you don't like that you don't have to, but it seems bioware wasn't interested in telling a story you're interested in rather then any flaw with the work itself. Right... Cora accomplished nothing - Vetra was just some yahoo along for the ride... this is another one of your head-scratching comments. You could argue all the other characters act like they’ve accomplished nothing, because that’s how they act - I’d agree with that, to say pretty much every single character in the game hasn’t accomplished anything is... Wait for it... Hyperbole. alright. You got me. In a very slight instance of hyperbole. The overall point still stands. These people did not leave the MWG because they were the best and brightest but because they...weren't. Granted i suppose you could add vetra to the list of characters with serious competence and accomplishments Behind them but they all left the MW because they weren't happy. That's the state of ninety nine percent of the characters in Andromeda. |
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Post by smilesja on Jun 17, 2017 1:46:06 GMT
Right... Cora accomplished nothing - Vetra was just some yahoo along for the ride... this is another one of your head-scratching comments. You could argue all the other characters act like they’ve accomplished nothing, because that’s how they act - I’d agree with that, to say pretty much every single character in the game hasn’t accomplished anything is... Wait for it... Hyperbole. alright. You got me. In a very slight instance of hyperbole. The overall point still stands. These people did not leave the MWG because they were the best and brightest but because they...weren't. Granted i suppose you could add vetra to the list of characters with serious competence and accomplishments Behind them but they all left the MW because they weren't happy. That's the state of ninety nine percent of the characters in Andromeda. Cora did work with Alec, who presumably had a high opinion of her. So she is pretty competent. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2017 1:59:23 GMT
alright. You got me. In a very slight instance of hyperbole. The overall point still stands. These people did not leave the MWG because they were the best and brightest but because they...weren't. Granted i suppose you could add vetra to the list of characters with serious competence and accomplishments Behind them but they all left the MW because they weren't happy. That's the state of ninety nine percent of the characters in Andromeda. Cora did work with Alec, who presumably had a high opinion of her. So she is pretty competent. i agree. But the overall thrust of the OP that started this conversation was no one on this crew was as accomplished as papa Ryder. A renowned explorer, soldier, and scientist. Under that lense the only characters which comes close to that level of competence or accomplishment is lexi and drack. That's the point i was trying to make and while judging characters by their reletive accomplishments is not necessarily a good thing to do. |
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Nov 27, 2024 10:25:32 GMT
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Nov 27, 2024 10:25:32 GMT
January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 4:04:43 GMT
Fine, agree with him. Others who have played the game disagree with him. Keep in mind though that to disprove a statement as absolute as "almost always," all that's really required is to list some lines that are not sassy nor delivered in a sassy way... and I have discovered many lines that are not sassy despite my being only about halfway into the game. I'm not the one making absolute statements based on insufficient data here. The ending of the quest "Excess Baggage" is quite sombre using the lines I selected.
Just ten minutes ago, I also triggered some nomad banter on Voeld between Drack and Jaal where Jaal is describing an old love of his who got him into the resistance. The description is anything but "sassy" and is delivered in a very sad and thoughtful way.
I also recently did the quest "Brought to Light" where Jaal confronts a Turian smuggler with the line "You'd steal from us who have lost everything." Again, decidedly not a sassy moment.
... and I could go on. Don't forget Task: What He Would Have Wanted Anything but snark or sass in that one either. Damn...that quest, man. Agree wholeheartedly. Just encountered another Fact or Fiction |
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