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Post by abaris on Jun 21, 2017 16:25:39 GMT
lol still not what this thread is about. So what is it supposed to be about, other than to compare apples and oranges. Such as design flaws vs failed customer policy. Bioware didn't spit into the faces of their customers. Rockstar did. Bioware created a game that wasn't liked by a number of people, Rockstar created one that was liked, but punched the customers into the face two years after release. It's not the least bit comparable.
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Post by Serza on Jun 21, 2017 16:28:02 GMT
Never take away mods if your game allows it. There are games who rely on it to extend their lifetime, and their creators often realize this. XCOM, ironically another title published by Take 2, is one of them. Mods were promoted to the point that they released full tools for the game. Now I worry, and I'm not inclined to get any DLCs or the expansions for XCOM2. Another is ArmA, both made and published by Bohemia Interactive. Between Buldozer, Oxygen and the sheer easiness to create scripts in ArmA (you literally need a .txt file editor and enough skill to change the file type) and they very well realize this, even making a competition with the total prize pool of 50,000EUR (That's fifty grand in euros, you read that right) and promoting high quality mods. Long story short: mods are important to people. They allow them to fuck around. I mean, ArmA has Halo, Star Wars, some Star Trek worlds (creator of which has passed away, unfortunately...), imaginary stuff, militaries from all over the world (seriously, ACR, Norwegians, British, Russians, you name it, you can probably find it on the Workshop or ArmAholic), historical themes (WWII, I saw WWI once back in the day, a Munich treaty based mod, maybe even the Napolean era) and realism (Go look up Advanced Combat Environment and you'll get PTSD from just that alone). All of this not only increases the playtime exponentially (I haven't even gone into the mission editor - with EDEN editor out for a while now, it's literally foolproof to make and publish a decent mission with enough effort) but it also brings in people who might not play it otherwise. The backlash for mod removal will be great, and we should be glad. GTA will probably start dieing now. Hopefully, EA is paying attention and even if they decide to not throw in full mod support, they will at least accept the existence of modders. They are, after all, people passionate enough about their games to create their own content with NO gain asked. Those are customers that are pretty likely to come back for the sequel and DLC regardless. The point of the post was many people who had no reason to hate on MEA gave it a bad review just for the sake of being jerks. As for mods, I hate them and don't care about GTA. Have you seen me refer to those folks before? I believe the term I'm known for is "bandwagon cunts" I think what the OP is trying to say is that Metacritic scores are easily manipulated and not a reliable tool to determine how good a game is. Myself I prefer to ask friends, watch reviewers I know to share the same taste as myself, and watch clips of gameplay. Well, I guess it needed repeating. Turns out GTAV only got that high because you could mod the damn thing. Frostbite is still a bitch to mod, but it scores higher than GTAV without mods? Heh. Which one's better, I dare you. Not at all GTA is a great game without mods this has to do with R* anti consumer policies not the quality of GTAV itself. Eeeeh, no, not really. GTAV, to this day, remains one of the FEW, VERY FEW games I regret purchasing in the long run. I had some good moments with it, but far too few with genuine friends, and the randoms in that game were pricks in almost a hundred percent of cases. Singleplayer story was about as uncompelling and uninteresting as they get.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:28:12 GMT
lol still not what this thread is about. So what is it supposed to be about, other than to compare apples and oranges. Such as design flaws vs failed customer policy. Bioware didn't spit into the faces of their customers. Rockstar did. Bioware created a game that wasn't liked by a number of people, Rockstar created one that was liked, but punched the customers into the face two years after release. It's not the least bit comparable. How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 21, 2017 16:30:41 GMT
So what is it supposed to be about, other than to compare apples and oranges. Such as design flaws vs failed customer policy. Bioware didn't spit into the faces of their customers. Rockstar did. Bioware created a game that wasn't liked by a number of people, Rockstar created one that was liked, but punched the customers into the face two years after release. It's not the least bit comparable. How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers. Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game is low quality and just sucks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:31:22 GMT
How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers. Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game just sucks.Speak for yourself.
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Post by Serza on Jun 21, 2017 16:32:27 GMT
Here's a very big difference: GTAV is a solid game, Andromeda is a dumpster fire. Thank you.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jun 21, 2017 16:32:36 GMT
For what it's worth, although it's not really the topic the OP wanted to discuss, I'm sorry for those of you who lost a part of the game that you loved. I play some GTA, but as I'm on the PS4 I've never been able to have mods. I sincerely hope Rockstar reverts the change in the future.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 21, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game just sucks.Speak for yourself. Okay, Andromeda is a low quality laughing stock compared to the trilogy and it will be remembered as such.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 21, 2017 16:33:23 GMT
If GTA is a great game and Mass Effect: Andromeda isn't then that shows how easily review scores can be manipulated because of what is happening with the review bombing over the game which is what the OP in my opinion was trying to point out. Regardless of what you feel about either game this proves the justification people use to indicate what a bad game is can be easily manipulated by an angry mob of people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:35:11 GMT
Okay, Andromeda is a low quality laughing stock compared to the trilogy and it will be remembered as such. Wasn't hard to do right? I for one loved it, enjoyed the exploring, the story and characters. Nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion as long as people understand that not everyone sees it how they do.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 21, 2017 16:35:39 GMT
If GTA is a great game and Mass Effect: Andromeda isn't then that shows how easily review scores can be manipulated because of what is happening with the review bombing over the game which is what the OP in my opinion was trying to point out. Regardless of what you feel about either game this proves the justification people use to indicate what a bad game is can be easily manipulated by an angry mob of people. Except Andromeda is a bad game where as GTAV is the polar opposite.
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Post by abaris on Jun 21, 2017 16:37:26 GMT
How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers. First, this is not a personal reason but a valid one. At least for everyone who still cares about modding. It sets precendence for the whole industry and is a slap to the customers faces in order to cash in on microtransactions. Once again, console players won't understand that this is massive. Apart from the fact that noone on this board talked about fan reviews but about the professional ratings of 72. Nobody takes a rating of 4.9 for MEA even remotely serious. If anything it's a good example of how a company can ruin their reputation on a moments notice, since the professional reviews and the users were pretty much in accord in their rating up until they decided on this move. Rockstar, as opposed to Bioware is deserving of every shitbomb being thrown their way. Once again, this is not personal, but about a company proudly taking a dump on their player base. And it's still apples and oranges.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:43:02 GMT
How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers. First, this is not a personal reason but a valid one. At least for everyone who still cares about modding. It sets precendence for the whole industry and is a slap to the customers faces in order to cash in on microtransactions. Once again, console players won't understand that this is massive. Apart from the fact that noone on this board talked about fan reviews but about the professional ratings of 72. Nobody takes a rating of 4.9 for MEA even remotely serious. If anything it's a good example of how a company can ruin their reputation on a moments notice, since the professional reviews and the users were pretty much in accord in their rating up until they decided on this move. Rockstar, as opposed to Bioware is deserving of every shitbomb being thrown their way. Once again, this is not personal, but about a company proudly taking a dump on their player base. And it's still apples and oranges. Well here's my personal view. MEA was a fine game and people need to honestly pull the large sticks out of their asses and move on.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 21, 2017 16:43:20 GMT
Here's a very big difference: GTAV is a solid game, Andromeda is a dumpster fire.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 21, 2017 16:44:02 GMT
Let's be real about MEA for a minute, I love the game but it's a train wreck and compared to GTAV it's a nuclear holocaust. The game setting around a 7/10 is more than fair and so was a lot of the memes. The facial animations were bad even by RPG standards. The story is meh at best, the best character is your father who dies a hour into the game. The profile system is just stupid and we can't tell our companions what skill to use during combat. I rather have sex with an angry stingray then deal with that CC one more time. And everything that was interesting is left unfinished for DLC or a sequel.
Yes some stuff improved with patches but you only get one shot to make a good first impression and Bioware somehow showed to the party with their d*ck hanging out.
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Post by abaris on Jun 21, 2017 16:44:54 GMT
Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game is low quality and just sucks. I would say, it's the other way round. Fans aren't abusing reviews for GTAV because what the company did is big and detrimental to the community. The ensuing shitstorm is entirely warranted. It's not as easy with MEA. Bioware has done nothing on these lines, so bombing MEA with zeros and ones isn't warranted and entirely a matter of tastes. So, yes, you can say a user base can have a detrimental effect on ratings, but that doesn't say anything on the reasons for doing it. The reaction over GTAV is a protest, the reaction over MEA is something different. There's no incentive or valid reason to downrate the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:44:55 GMT
Here's a very big difference: GTAV is a solid game, Andromeda is a dumpster fire. Did you know you're my favorite BSN member?
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Post by jclosed on Jun 21, 2017 16:45:11 GMT
If GTA is a great game and Mass Effect: Andromeda isn't then that shows how easily review scores can be manipulated because of what is happening with the review bombing over the game which is what the OP in my opinion was trying to point out. Regardless of what you feel about either game this proves the justification people use to indicate what a bad game is can be easily manipulated by an angry mob of people. Exactly! I have seen that effect on Seam very often, and it seems on the increase the latest years. It's now on a level that people should not trust any review over there (at least not the draconian or overpraising ones).
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 21, 2017 16:45:47 GMT
The point of the post was many people who had no reason to hate on MEA gave it a bad review just for the sake of being jerks. As for mods, I hate them and don't care about GTA. Have you seen me refer to those folks before? I believe the term I'm known for is "bandwagon cunts" I think what the OP is trying to say is that Metacritic scores are easily manipulated and not a reliable tool to determine how good a game is. Myself I prefer to ask friends, watch reviewers I know to share the same taste as myself, and watch clips of gameplay. Well, I guess it needed repeating. Not at all GTA is a great game without mods this has to do with R* anti consumer policies not the quality of GTAV itself. Eeeeh, no, not really. GTAV, to this day, remains one of the FEW, VERY FEW games I regret purchasing in the long run. I had some good moments with it, but far too few with genuine friends, and the randoms in that game were pricks in almost a hundred percent of cases. Singleplayer story was about as uncompelling and uninteresting as they get. I disagree completely. GTAV is one of the best games I ever played.
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Post by jclosed on Jun 21, 2017 16:47:35 GMT
Here's a very big difference: GTAV is a solid game, Andromeda is a dumpster fire. Yep - that guy perfectly illustrates what the OP is trying to say.
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N7
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 21, 2017 16:48:30 GMT
It's a good thing and it's a bad thing since whatever may piss off certain consumers may not piss off other consumers. This is why I like the early access route, let's folks try something out for themselves with relatively little risk. I dunno, I see early access mainly as a beta you pay full price for. But you don't pay full price so... well at least I didn't.
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Post by Serza on Jun 21, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
You don't get what these games are about. The modding community taking up where the company left and making most moddable games so much better. It's not overreacting, if they suddenly take that ability away from the community but a natural reaction. They're perfectly in their right to do so, but that nobody expected the backclash after that kind of move is beyond me. It's kind of big and probably not understandable to someone playing on a console. Granted, GTA only had 129 files on the nexus. But one has to understand precedence to get the scope of what they are doing. They even sued a modder providing some file for free, as a labor of love, according to the discusion on the nexus website. And all because they want to sell their cards to players. That's the same as if someone from the company had stepped up to slap each and every player to the face. That's what the outrage is about and that's why it's not the least bit comparable to MEAs reception. It's not about design, it's not about glitches or bugs, it's about taking something from the community more than two years after the gae was released on the PC. lol still not what this thread is about. I get it. You hate mods. You might as well hate having a lot of fun. Have you seen ArmA? XCOM? Hell, have you see old GTA San Andreas? Counter-Strike, a highly popular franchise, used to be a Half-Life mod. Same goes for Team Fortress. Iron Front 44 is actually what began as an ArmA series mod. They eventually won the RV engine from Bohemia and were allowed to make their own game, under the condition that their game would NOT have the same modding ability as ArmA series. Why, I ask you. Why would they deny another developer to use what makes their engine one of the best? If you don't want to mod, then you're either content with getting just what you pay for and do not want anything else, or a console person who's so envious of mods you're telling yourself they're an evil thing. One way or the other, I do not understand. How fan reviews can abuse the the system based on their personal feelings and not what the game itself offers. Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game is low quality and just sucks. Yes, they are. And no, you're one of them.
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 21, 2017 16:49:51 GMT
It's a good thing and it's a bad thing since whatever may piss off certain consumers may not piss off other consumers. This is why I like the early access route, let's folks try something out for themselves with relatively little risk. I dunno, I see early access mainly as a beta you pay full price for. I also prefer to play games when they are completed and ready.
Without the ability to write bad reviews who would even know that consumers are dissatisfied? I certainly don't trust the gaming media to give me a voice on that.
And the thing is, if they didn't manage to piss off most of their consumer base, a few angry reviews wouldn't have even dented GTA V ratio.
I've seen the metacritic reviews skewed before. It's kinda useless in my humble opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:50:19 GMT
lol still not what this thread is about. I get it. You hate mods. You might as well hate having a lot of fun. Have you seen ArmA? XCOM? Hell, have you see old GTA San Andreas? Counter-Strike, a highly popular franchise, used to be a Half-Life mod. Same goes for Team Fortress. Iron Front 44 is actually what began as an ArmA series mod. They eventually won the RV engine from Bohemia and were allowed to make their own game, under the condition that their game would NOT have the same modding ability as ArmA series. Why, I ask you. Why would they deny another developer to use what makes their engine one of the best? If you don't want to mod, then you're either content with getting just what you pay for and do not want anything else, or a console person who's so envious of mods you're telling yourself they're an evil thing. One way or the other, I do not understand. Fans are obviously abusing reviews for GTAV, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are abusing reviews for Andromeda. The game is low quality and just sucks. Yes, they are. And no, you're one of them. What has that to do with the OP pointing out that fans can alter scores based on personal feelings and not game quality?
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Post by Serza on Jun 21, 2017 16:50:57 GMT
First, this is not a personal reason but a valid one. At least for everyone who still cares about modding. It sets precendence for the whole industry and is a slap to the customers faces in order to cash in on microtransactions. Once again, console players won't understand that this is massive. Apart from the fact that noone on this board talked about fan reviews but about the professional ratings of 72. Nobody takes a rating of 4.9 for MEA even remotely serious. If anything it's a good example of how a company can ruin their reputation on a moments notice, since the professional reviews and the users were pretty much in accord in their rating up until they decided on this move. Rockstar, as opposed to Bioware is deserving of every shitbomb being thrown their way. Once again, this is not personal, but about a company proudly taking a dump on their player base. And it's still apples and oranges. Well here's my personal view. MEA was a fine game and people need to honestly pull the large sticks out of their asses and move on. Ah, common ground. Let's maybe not go all out with bullshit, because this is a stance I can very easily agree with.
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