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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 23, 2017 8:57:48 GMT
1) People are dumb 2) people can't handle change
It's been this way since we were still flinging our poop at each other. It's still this way. Shrug and move on.
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Post by abaris on Jun 23, 2017 9:05:26 GMT
1) People are dumb 2) people can't handle change It's been this way since we were still flinging our poop at each other. It's still this way. Shrug and move on. What a glorious statement, obviously without having the first clue what the outrage over GTA is all about. It's not about "change", since they didn't change their game to something people didn't want. It's about taking away support.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 23, 2017 9:08:33 GMT
1) People are dumb 2) people can't handle change It's been this way since we were still flinging our poop at each other. It's still this way. Shrug and move on. What a glorious statement, obviously without having the first clue what the outrage over GTA is all about. It's not about "change", since they didn't change their game to something people didn't want. It's about taking away support. I can read. I know what it's about. CHange is change, wether or not it affects the core game or not is irrelevant. People treat it as a whole because that's what they had, or interpreted as to having a right to have. Now they have taken from the whole. The whole is now less. Change.
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Post by henkiedepost on Jun 23, 2017 11:48:36 GMT
Sure still is a lot of people who can't figure out, that just because you like something doesn't make it good, conversely if you don't like something doesn't make it bad. Aye. Being able to acknowledge that something you enjoy is deeply flawed (or that something you disliked is still very good) is an important thing that is lost on a lot of people. As is the idea that different people have different opinions and perceptions on what makes a something good or bad, and as a result one of your favorite aspects of something you enjoy is going to be one of it's biggest flaws in the eyes of someone else. For example, I think the writing in Andromeda is a mixed bag skewing towards the negative end of the spectrum, and it's one of the reasons that I dislike the game, but I understand that other people think that the writing is flawless and is one of the highlights of the game to them. While I may not understand their viewpoint, I acknowledge it exists and respect that. Spot on. From a personal experience I can say that I'm one of THOSE guys who really enjoyed the Star Wars prequels. Might be because I watched them a lot when I was a kid and I only cared for the battle scenes but the why's don't really matter here. I do know- and acknowledge however, that the prequels are considered terrible movies by many people, thanks to illustrious lines like 'I hate sand' and the evil Sith Lord Jar Jar Binks. I still love them, but I know that there are plenty of other people who don't and who have their own valid reasons for doing so. Doesn't detract from my personal view of the movies at all. Just puts things into perspective, and that's a good thing. And now on topic: I feel like a discussion about the reliability of user-scores on metacritic is useless because the scores themselves are a terrible way to gather any reliable information at all. Everyone here hopefully knows that. Only seldom do I find an User review worth reading but it gets blurred out by the infinite amounts of trolls (10's and 0's) the internet holds. Someone here said that steam is different, but it really isn't. Take a look at the game Europa Universalis IV. It was always regarded as a great game according to steam users but now that Paradox has increased the price and keeps pumping out DLC the community is turning against them and the reviews are becoming extremely negative for that sole reason. I've said it many times in another thread, but the User-scores on any platform should just get disregarded. Andromeda's User scores hold no real value, just as the GTA V scores aren't an actual representation of the game. Both numbers are just giant mood swings of the internet mob. If people still insist on using something as arbitrary as 'scores' to judge if they want a game or not I'd point them to the critic scores anyday, everyday. And not just the scores, but to the individual articles as well. Even though there are some bad critics in the bunch (therefore it's important to read individual articles so that you can see for yourself who knows his games and who not), they atleast don't troll and give 10's 'because another reviewer gave the game a 1'. They provide arguments as to why they come to their conclusions, instead of most of the user reviews, and they tend to know their stuff and comparisons. Yes, you can disagree with the critics, and that isn't strange because their reviews are also nothing more than opinions after all, but keep in mind that your reasons for disagreeing with a critic are not magically more valid in any way than the critics reasons giving the game the rating he or she did. Just as that your opinions aren't anymore valid than those of other posters on this forum.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jun 23, 2017 12:09:53 GMT
You're obviously bothered by the score. Again, let it go. It's really not the world's wonder. I know, hard to accept it. And if you have the time, will and money to watch and play hot smoking garbage out there, then good for you. Enjoy it. lol I don't even know what the score is! Sure. Then your lack of basic knowledge is impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 15:53:13 GMT
lol I don't even know what the score is! Sure. Then your lack of basic knowledge is impressive. Seeing as online reviews are fodder to me, I am happy to be ignorant of such knowledge.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 23, 2017 17:14:16 GMT
Sure. Then your lack of basic knowledge is impressive. Seeing as online reviews are fodder to me, I am happy to be ignorant of such knowledge. I think you have the right mindset. At the end of the day there is only one review that matters. Your own.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 17:17:59 GMT
Seeing as online reviews are fodder to me, I am happy to be ignorant of such knowledge. I think you have the right mindset. At the end of the day there I as only one review that matters. Your own. Yeah I don't need someone telling me how I should think. I'm a big girl lol
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 23, 2017 17:18:19 GMT
Here's a very big difference: GTAV is a solid game, Andromeda is a dmpster fire. Get to spot and take mission, drive to destination, shoot stuff, escape. That's all you do. Sounds like MEA tbh
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 23, 2017 18:38:02 GMT
Phew. That's a lot of a pissed off PC players. That's not the crowd I would ever want to fuck with. The same people who bashed Deus ex human revolution for having bosses and then the next game had no bosses at all. The same people who bashed Deus ex mankind divided for being bad and then deus was put on ice. The same people who bashed andromeda for being bad and then mass effect was put on ice. Not them specifically but these kind of gamers. They are just as bad as EA/Ubisoft/activision in my eyes. But a lot of problems with MEA were self inflected. It's not gamers fault this game had laughable facial animations, a weak story, okay characters but no one stands out, a terrible CC, a lack of choices and consequences, among other issues. Mass Effect is put on ice not because of the fan but Bioware releasing a game way before it was ready.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 23, 2017 21:48:47 GMT
The same people who bashed Deus ex human revolution for having bosses and then the next game had no bosses at all. The same people who bashed Deus ex mankind divided for being bad and then deus was put on ice. The same people who bashed andromeda for being bad and then mass effect was put on ice. Not them specifically but these kind of gamers. They are just as bad as EA/Ubisoft/activision in my eyes. But a lot of problems with MEA were self inflected. It's not gamers fault this game had laughable facial animations, a weak story, okay characters but no one stands out, a terrible CC, a lack of choices and consequences, among other issues. Mass Effect is put on ice not because of the fan but Bioware releasing a game way before it was ready. That's not actually why its 'on ice' (something that isn't actually true, but hey, its the internet, we'll roll with that, facts don't come into this), either. No game has a backlash of this scale because of facial animations and a character creator. I don't totally agree with ioannisdenton (the way the bosses were handled in DXHR was legitimately awful, given the series) but people overreacted all the same, and unfortunately, Bioware tend to listen to their audience to a fault.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 23, 2017 21:50:42 GMT
But a lot of problems with MEA were self inflected. It's not gamers fault this game had laughable facial animations, a weak story, okay characters but no one stands out, a terrible CC, a lack of choices and consequences, among other issues. Mass Effect is put on ice not because of the fan but Bioware releasing a game way before it was ready. That's not actually why its 'on ice' (something that isn't actually true, but hey, its the internet, we'll roll with that, facts don't come into this), either. No game has a backlash of this scale because of facial animations and a character creator. I don't totally agree with ioannisdenton (the way the bosses were handled in DXHR was legitimately awful, given the series) but people overreacted all the same, and unfortunately, Bioware tend to listen to their audience to a fault. I agree and think that is the biggest problem BioWare has is that they listen too much. They should be more willing to completely ignore the fanbase and make the game they want to and not hope it is something that will appease an angry online mob.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 23, 2017 22:10:02 GMT
But a lot of problems with MEA were self inflected. It's not gamers fault this game had laughable facial animations, a weak story, okay characters but no one stands out, a terrible CC, a lack of choices and consequences, among other issues. Mass Effect is put on ice not because of the fan but Bioware releasing a game way before it was ready. That's not actually why its 'on ice' (something that isn't actually true, but hey, its the internet, we'll roll with that, facts don't come into this), either. No game has a backlash of this scale because of facial animations and a character creator. I don't totally agree with ioannisdenton (the way the bosses were handled in DXHR was legitimately awful, given the series) but people overreacted all the same, and unfortunately, Bioware tend to listen to their audience to a fault. ' MEA was just a massive disappointment for a lot of people that's why it got so much backlash. Don't get me wrong some of the hate was overblown but this game has a lot of flaws and i don't how any of it has to do with fan feedback
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Post by armass81 on Jun 23, 2017 22:19:13 GMT
Metacritic scores dont always apply that well, at least not subjectively.
For instance one of my favorite games of all time, Suikoden 2 is only 82 on the score, on reviews. Its the best of the series IMO and probably on average fans opinion. And i think its on par if not better than some earlier Final Fantasy titles, which OFC receive 90s range on reviews mostly.
Id easily give it 92/100.
I cant do the same with MEA, not even after all its fixes. This game will never get a more than a number that starts with a 7, from me. I just cant put it in 8 category, with its lackluster story and "soul", atmosphere, villain and mundane handling. It has some potential shining, but it never reaches that, unfortunately. After 5 years id expect some innovation, but it just doesnt innovate enough, even tough the combat is good and theres jumping and jetpacks now. Everything else is just more of the same from the trilogy, a big spacestation and an asshole council, villains that turn people into monsters, more shooting random mercs on barren wastelands, only told more poorly and boringly. And the multiplayer is more of the same too, with more boring enemies id say. Ill take a banshee over an ascendant every day.
I can still enjoy the game to an extent, like i can enjoy Final Fantasy 10, while looking at the previous games and clearly seeing neither of them are on the par with them. But theyre not broken, theyre still fun to play as. Theyre just not the same as the previous entries.
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Post by abaris on Jun 24, 2017 9:54:45 GMT
' MEA was just a massive disappointment for a lot of people that's why it got so much backlash. Don't get me wrong some of the hate was overblown but this game has a lot of flaws and i don't how any of it has to do with fan feedback I find myself mostly in line with the professional reviews collected on metacritic. For most games I played. Not with the user reviews. Certainly not with how they rated the last four Bioware games. I also find myself in line with the 72 the magazine reviews handed out this time round, but not the 4,9 the users gave it.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jun 24, 2017 13:33:22 GMT
Sure. Then your lack of basic knowledge is impressive. Seeing as online reviews are fodder to me, I am happy to be ignorant of such knowledge. Then why are you talking about them? Contradiction at its finest.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 24, 2017 15:22:11 GMT
That's a good thing. Consumers are the ones lacking power in this "relationship", not corporations. Consumers don't owe the corporations a thing. So when a corporation pulls a dick move, the ability to show your displeasure with them as a consumer is critical. And the corporation will likely not give two fucks in this case. It is Rockstar, after all.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 24, 2017 20:23:41 GMT
That's not actually why its 'on ice' (something that isn't actually true, but hey, its the internet, we'll roll with that, facts don't come into this), either. No game has a backlash of this scale because of facial animations and a character creator. I don't totally agree with ioannisdenton (the way the bosses were handled in DXHR was legitimately awful, given the series) but people overreacted all the same, and unfortunately, Bioware tend to listen to their audience to a fault. ' MEA was just a massive disappointment for a lot of people that's why it got so much backlash. Don't get me wrong some of the hate was overblown but this game has a lot of flaws and i don't how any of it has to do with fan feedback That is the point of the discussion, is it not? The reasoning behind the backlash? I agree it was a disappointment to some. I would probably argue the people most disappointed had unrealistic expectations (why anyone thought a single game would somehow surpass an entire trilogy is beyond me, for example) but it nonetheless didn't quite hit the spot for many. It's also screwed up on multiple fronts (animations, too much aimless open world stuff etc) that it really shouldn't have. All of this is sort of reflected in the professional scores - which sit in the 70/80 range. It's not quite on the level of the trilogy but its still a legitimately good game. The main issue is that this has been exaggerated by the retard bandwagon giving it things like 4s and 5s which would put this game in the same category as Aliens: Colonial Marines, which is plainly bullshit but nonetheless taken hold.
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 24, 2017 21:23:10 GMT
What? First, you're obviously only talking about GTAV online, and probably about cheat engine. No, the modding tool (open 4) was banned entirely, which lowered drastically the value proposition and interest many people had in the game. I have never played any of the GTA games, but I see where the outrage is. Just imagine if Bethesda decided to remove it's modding tools and switch to an engine like Frostbite that was difficult to mod. I think the internet might actually have a meltdown.
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 24, 2017 21:30:04 GMT
lol still not what this thread is about. So what is it supposed to be about, other than to compare apples and oranges. Such as design flaws vs failed customer policy. Bioware didn't spit into the faces of their customers. Rockstar did. Bioware created a game that wasn't liked by a number of people, Rockstar created one that was liked, but punched the customers into the face two years after release. It's not the least bit comparable. I'm not so sure about that. Depends on what you think of an inexperienced team getting handed the reigns of their golden child and move the "A team" to their new IP. I didn't take it personally, but I see where their priorities are and it's not with the fan base that gave them their fame in the first place. Some might consider that giving their ME fan base the middle finger.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 24, 2017 21:42:48 GMT
I think what the OP is trying to say is that Metacritic scores are easily manipulated and not a reliable tool to determine how good a game is. Myself I prefer to ask friends, watch reviewers I know to share the same taste as myself, and watch clips of gameplay. Metacritic and sites like it are more trouble than they are worth.
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Post by Garo on Jun 24, 2017 21:43:33 GMT
You compare outrage that was caused by gamers that are not happy with taking away their mods to outrage caused by Andromeda.
Keep in mind that GTA V was released in 2015, mods are what makes this game still going strong. This game had near perfect reviews when it came out and people liked it so much that they still create new content for it and also there are still new, very popular videos on yt with this game. Same with Witcher, Fallout and Skyrim.
ME:A was so bad that it got popular because of that.
If you want to compare something, compare it with something at least similar.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 24, 2017 22:13:14 GMT
If you want to compare something, compare it with something at least similar. And if you want to comment on a thread, make sure you understand what the discussion is about before giving it both barrels. Hint: He's not saying that the situations are the same.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 24, 2017 23:29:56 GMT
And the corporation will likely not give two fucks in this case. It is Rockstar, after all. *shrug*
That's not necessarily the point. You can ignore consumer backlash at your peril. At best, you will have to invest extra in your PR to counter that. At worst, you will annoy enough people to a sufficient degree that you might feel it next time you release something. *cough*BioWare*cough*
I mean, I didn't buy GTA V on release (didn't buy the other titles at all), I only bought it at a sale, for something like 40/50% off IIRC. I'm not going to buy RDR2 on release either. (if it's even on PC) And as I didn't personally use mods, their decision is not impacting me directly, but it certainly tells me a few things about their attitude.
Yeah, but in truth a move like this effects a small group of the population playing. A population in the millions of course. So it's the Pareto Principle in the end again, anger 20% of your fanbase to maximize enjoyment for the other 80%.
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