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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 23, 2017 5:21:53 GMT
If you take a look at the world and the world seems wrong, it is not the world that is wrong but you. Viva la status quo, amirite?
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 23, 2017 7:02:46 GMT
If you think your subjective opinion on a form of entertainment is objective fact then there is something wrong with you. Entertainment by it's nature is subjective as are people's preferences and tastes. No, I think my subjective opinion along with the world's subjective opinion is an objective fact. The world objectively thinks that this is a bad game. The fact that you can't even recognize that, shows that there's something up with you. I'd suggest counseling, but you're too solipsistic to even recognize that there's anything wrong. The obvious problem with this argument is that the world's subjective opinion isn't all that stable until a work has been around for a while. Even if we grant your premise that the world is saying that ME:A is outright bad rather than, say, just average, that doesn't tell us too much about what the world will be saying in six months or six years.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 23, 2017 8:50:50 GMT
If Bioware's response is: Then: If their response is: YES.............................................THEN:
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Post by KingTony on Jun 23, 2017 9:26:40 GMT
How can it be dead if it was never alive? It's just a bunch of ones and zeroes, dummy.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jun 23, 2017 10:29:51 GMT
I'd say quality of art (for a generic term) is not entirely subjective. Otherwise, I could say I'm a good painter as Picasso. theres no problem in you saying or believing that. I doubt very many people that know anything about art will agree with that.
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Post by Melcara on Jun 23, 2017 10:46:29 GMT
theres no problem in you saying or believing that. I doubt very many people that know anything about art will agree with that. Yup. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but there is definitely objectively superior art and objectively inferior art. A smudged painting made by a five year old really isn't comparable to a painting made by a professional, skilled painter.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 23, 2017 12:47:59 GMT
I doubt very many people that know anything about art will agree with that. Yup. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but there is definitely objectively superior art and objectively inferior art. A smudged painting made by a five year old really isn't comparable to a painting made by a professional, skilled painter. And yet... smears are being sold for milliions of whatever your curreny is, because the 'painter' is good at bullshitting people into thinking it means something deep. That said, I do agree to a point. A verily skilled painter may use very difficult detailed techniques, at which point, indeed the value may rightfully rise.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 23, 2017 14:46:16 GMT
Yup. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but there is definitely objectively superior art and objectively inferior art. A smudged painting made by a five year old really isn't comparable to a painting made by a professional, skilled painter. And yet... smears are being sold for milliions of whatever your curreny is, because the 'painter' is good at bullshitting people into thinking it means something deep. That said, I do agree to a point. A verily skilled painter may use very difficult detailed techniques, at which point, indeed the value may rightfully rise. Some years ago Spy magazine put that to the test by making a fake gallery exhibit out of some first-graders' watercolors. The results were not completely conclusive. Nobody thought the works were very good, but they weren't treated as obvious jokes either. IIRC they didn't actually end up selling any, though.
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Post by bizantura on Jun 23, 2017 15:47:11 GMT
Today's western journalism, flights of fancy and the more outlandish the better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 15:50:34 GMT
I doubt very many people that know anything about art will agree with that. Yup. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but there is definitely objectively superior art and objectively inferior art. A smudged painting made by a five year old really isn't comparable to a painting made by a professional, skilled painter. However, I sincerely doubt that any five-year-old could design, draw, write and program anything even remotely close to ME:A. So that sort of comparison is an exaggeration that misses the mark by a mile and half. The "beauty" of this game's story, of this game's gameplay, and of this game's graphics compared with other games is largely in the eyes of the beholder. As much as people want to claim their opinions represent an objective judgment... they are still just voicing their opinions and their opinions are still as subjective as anyone's opinion... and other people still happen to disagree with them. Like it, lump it, or hate it... it's still just your subjective opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 21:26:53 GMT
If you can't look at a game and say it's objectively bad, but you still like it then something is wrong with you. If you take a look at the world and the world seems wrong, it is not the world that is wrong but you.If you think your subjective opinion on a form of entertainment is objective fact then there is something wrong with you. Entertainment by it's nature is subjective as are people's preferences and tastes. No, I think my subjective opinion along with the world's subjective opinion is an objective fact. The world objectively thinks that this is a bad game. The fact that you can't even recognize that, shows that there's something up with you. I'd suggest counseling, but you're too solipsistic to even recognize that there's anything wrong. Keep on thinking that the world is flat, the world was created 6,000 years ago, that everything in that story makes sense, that dinosaurs are fake, the moon landing never happened, 9/11 was an inside job, and most of all, keep on fighting the good fight. Yet "the world" did think some of those things, and turned out to be wrong. I'd say quality of art (for a generic term) is not entirely subjective. Otherwise, I could say I'm a good painter as Picasso. Quality can really only be determined in relationship to underlying requirements and expected use. If I find John Doe's painting a better fit for the decor and mood of my LR than a Picasso piece, then John Doe's painting would get a better rating on the quality scale for that application. Despite the endless crowing about TW3, since I've zero interest in Geralt, his world, or his life, that series means nothing to me. I care about Ryder, her world, her cohorts, and her story, thus MEA better meets my personal requirements and is thus higher quality for my application.
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Post by Melcara on Jun 23, 2017 23:42:03 GMT
Yup. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but there is definitely objectively superior art and objectively inferior art. A smudged painting made by a five year old really isn't comparable to a painting made by a professional, skilled painter. However, I sincerely doubt that any five-year-old could design, draw, write and program anything even remotely close to ME:A. So that sort of comparison is an exaggeration that misses the mark by a mile and half. The "beauty" of this game's story, of this game's gameplay, and of this game's graphics compared with other games is largely in the eyes of the beholder. As much as people want to claim their opinions represent an objective judgment... they are still just voicing their opinions and their opinions are still as subjective as anyone's opinion... and other people still happen to disagree with them. Like it, lump it, or hate it... it's still just your subjective opinion. I wasn't talking about MEA at all, though. I went off topic.
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Post by derrame on Jun 24, 2017 6:35:10 GMT
MEA is just an unfinished lgbt sjw dating simulator with thousands of tedious fetch quests, Anthem is the real mass effect game we were waiting for, even though it doesn't have the mass effect title on it, Drew Karpyshyn is writing the game, the guy who wrote ME1 and 2, so, the good me games
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 6:38:57 GMT
MEA is just an unfinished lgbt sjw dating simulator with thousands of tedious fetch quests, Anthem is the real mass effect game we were waiting for, even though it doesn't have the mass effect title on it, Drew Karpyshyn is writing the game, the guy who wrote ME1 and 2, so, the good me games
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 24, 2017 7:03:13 GMT
MEA is just an unfinished lgbt sjw dating simulator with thousands of tedious fetch quests, Anthem is the real mass effect game we were waiting for, even though it doesn't have the mass effect title on it, Drew Karpyshyn is writing the game, the guy who wrote ME1 and 2, so, the good me games OK derps how in the hell is MEA an "sjw dating simulator"? Try explaining it with out resorting to hyperbole if you are even capable of doing that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 7:07:33 GMT
OK derps how in the hell is MEA an "sjw dating simulator"? Try explaining it with out resorting to hyperbole if you are even capable of doing that. I doubt they can explain it and I SERIOUSLY doubt they even know what it means. They just want to insult people...
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Post by feuerrabe on Jun 24, 2017 11:24:45 GMT
My understanding is that EA has no intention to let Bioware create another Mass Effect any time soon, but that doesn't mean "never". Unless they sell the IP to anyone else (who knows, Disney already bought Star Wars, maybe they are interested in Mass Effect as well), they will eventually revive it, it's too valuable an asset to not use it, but I wouldn't expect another game within the next ten years.
Another possibility is that the new Anthem universe will make Mass Effect obsolete. That does not seem very likely, because Anthem does not really sound like anything I've never seen before... but then again, if I ever heard a description of Mass Effect universe before I played it, I might have thought of it as "yet another Star Trek". So, we'll see. It is possible that in ten years people will think of Mass Effect only as "some relatively they did before Anthem, back when AAA games sold only a few million copies, not hundreds of millions".
I am quite certain that Andromeda is dead, however. Even if they bring another Mass Effect game, it will rather be a continuation of the original trilogy, which implies choosing a canonical set of story choices and a canonical Shepard. (Gawd, I once dared to refer to Darth Revan as 'she' in an SW:TOR forum. Believe me, once there is a canonical way, the lore-mongers will burn you in flame and explain in detail how the way implied in the lore is right and every other way is wrong and only a moron would ever choose anything other than the way that is obviously "the truth"™.)
It's a good and somewhat surprising thing that Bioware is still releasing patches though. I am not sure whether that is so very economically seen a good choice - it's not likely they will sell a lot more copies of the game and the developers working on it could instead be helping with Anthem or whatnot - but I do still have a faint hope that we'll see an add on that brings closure on one of the minor story arks.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 24, 2017 12:08:35 GMT
MEA is just an unfinished lgbt sjw dating simulator with thousands of tedious fetch quests, Anthem is the real mass effect game we were waiting for, even though it doesn't have the mass effect title on it, Drew Karpyshyn is writing the game, the guy who wrote ME1 and 2, so, the good me games Hey, he's just as much to blame for ME3 as the poor suckers who ended up having to fill in his plot holes. (I'll leave the derp part of that post to others.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 12:10:44 GMT
My understanding is that EA has no intention to let Bioware create another Mass Effect any time soon, but that doesn't mean "never". Unless they sell the IP to anyone else (who knows, Disney already bought Star Wars, maybe they are interested in Mass Effect as well), they will eventually revive it, it's too valuable an asset to not use it, but I wouldn't expect another game within the next ten years. Another possibility is that the new Anthem universe will make Mass Effect obsolete. That does not seem very likely, because Anthem does not really sound like anything I've never seen before... but then again, if I ever heard a description of Mass Effect universe before I played it, I might have thought of it as "yet another Star Trek". So, we'll see. It is possible that in ten years people will think of Mass Effect only as "some relatively they did before Anthem, back when AAA games sold only a few million copies, not hundreds of millions". I am quite certain that Andromeda is dead, however. Even if they bring another Mass Effect game, it will rather be a continuation of the original trilogy, which implies choosing a canonical set of story choices and a canonical Shepard. (Gawd, I once dared to refer to Darth Revan as 'she' in an SW:TOR forum. Believe me, once there is a canonical way, the lore-mongers will burn you in flame and explain in detail how the way implied in the lore is right and every other way is wrong and only a moron would ever choose anything other than the way that is obviously "the truth"™.) It's a good and somewhat surprising thing that Bioware is still releasing patches though. I am not sure whether that is so very economically seen a good choice - it's not likely they will sell a lot more copies of the game and the developers working on it could instead be helping with Anthem or whatnot - but I do still have a faint hope that we'll see an add on that brings closure on one of the minor story arks. On what do you base this "certainty" that they will canonize a Trilogy ending and just drop the ME:A story... I think it's just wishful thinking pulled out of your arse because I've seen no such indication from them that they are planning such a thing. They have repeatedly said no to making a Trilogy ending canon over the last 5 years, so without a firm indication from them that they've changed their mind on that front, you have absolutely nothing to be certain about.
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Post by abaris on Jun 24, 2017 12:12:27 GMT
Some years ago Spy magazine put that to the test by making a fake gallery exhibit out of some first-graders' watercolors. The results were not completely conclusive. Nobody thought the works were very good, but they weren't treated as obvious jokes either. IIRC they didn't actually end up selling any, though. They even did one better. Not entirely bad, I would say. www.artistsezine.com/WhyGorilla.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 12:22:10 GMT
Some years ago Spy magazine put that to the test by making a fake gallery exhibit out of some first-graders' watercolors. The results were not completely conclusive. Nobody thought the works were very good, but they weren't treated as obvious jokes either. IIRC they didn't actually end up selling any, though. They even did one better. Not entirely bad, I would say. www.artistsezine.com/WhyGorilla.htm... and they sell them for prices similar to what you can buy a lot of work done by the local artists around here. Not Picasso rates... but who know what will happen after they've been dead a 60 years or so.
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Post by feuerrabe on Jun 24, 2017 12:32:11 GMT
On what do you base this "certainty" that they will canonize a Trilogy ending and just drop the ME:A story... I think it's just wishful thinking pulled out of your arse because I've seen no such indication from them that they are planning such a thing. They have repeatedly said no to making a Trilogy ending canon over the last 5 years, so without a firm indication from them that they've changed their mind on that front, you have absolutely nothing to be certain about. When I say "quite certain" is not the same as I am certain. What certainly isn't the case is your assessment that it would be wishful thinking on my side that lead me to that conclusion: I hate unfinished stories and I would like to see how things end. It doesn't surprise me that you haven't seen any indication that Bioware or EA was planning anything like this, because there are no plans to do anything at all with Mass Effect right now and throughout the last five years they have been working on Andromeda. But if the Mass Effect universe is ever revived, it will be more like 2028 until a game is actually released. Until then imposing a canonical course of the original trilogy upon the players will be a different thing entirely and building upon the original trilogy rather than an offshot of average success is the way to go. Do you honestly believe it will matter at all to a game designer who starts a new project in say, 2023 what another game designer, who created a game that lead to the Bioware Montreal being closed, said ten years ago?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2017 12:33:32 GMT
If you think your subjective opinion on a form of entertainment is objective fact then there is something wrong with you. Entertainment by it's nature is subjective as are people's preferences and tastes. No, I think my subjective opinion along with the world's subjective opinion is an objective fact. The world objectively thinks that this is a bad game. The fact that you can't even recognize that, shows that there's something up with you. I'd suggest counseling, but you're too solipsistic to even recognize that there's anything wrong. Keep on thinking that the world is flat, the world was created 6,000 years ago, that everything in that story makes sense, that dinosaurs are fake, the moon landing never happened, 9/11 was an inside job, and most of all, keep on fighting the good fight. Nope, I think your view on it being objective is subjective. Nor do strawman arguments change that. However, you're welcome to your subjective opinion on your objectivity and so am I The closest I think we can get to objectivity on MEA is that it is a polarizing game; some think it is good, some think it is bad and others that it is mediocre or flawed.
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 24, 2017 12:52:19 GMT
No, I think my subjective opinion along with the world's subjective opinion is an objective fact. The world objectively thinks that this is a bad game. The fact that you can't even recognize that, shows that there's something up with you. I'd suggest counseling, but you're too solipsistic to even recognize that there's anything wrong. Keep on thinking that the world is flat, the world was created 6,000 years ago, that everything in that story makes sense, that dinosaurs are fake, the moon landing never happened, 9/11 was an inside job, and most of all, keep on fighting the good fight. Nope, I think your view on it being objective is subjective. Nor do strawman arguments change that. However, you're welcome to your subjective opinion on your objectivity and so am I The closest I think we can get to objectivity on MEA is that it is a polarizing game; some think it is good, some think it is bad and others that it is mediocre or flawed. objectively we can say it has had a mixed reception
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 13:01:28 GMT
On what do you base this "certainty" that they will canonize a Trilogy ending and just drop the ME:A story... I think it's just wishful thinking pulled out of your arse because I've seen no such indication from them that they are planning such a thing. They have repeatedly said no to making a Trilogy ending canon over the last 5 years, so without a firm indication from them that they've changed their mind on that front, you have absolutely nothing to be certain about. When I say "quite certain" is not the same as I am certain. What certainly isn't the case is your assessment that it would be wishful thinking on my side that lead me to that conclusion: I hate unfinished stories and I would like to see how things end. It doesn't surprise me that you haven't seen any indication that Bioware or EA was planning anything like this, because there are no plans to do anything at all with Mass Effect right now and throughout the last five years they have been working on Andromeda. But if the Mass Effect universe is ever revived, it will be more like 2028 until a game is actually released. Until then imposing a canonical course of the original trilogy upon the players will be a different thing entirely and building upon the original trilogy rather than an offshot of average success is the way to go. Do you honestly believe it will matter at all to a game designer who starts a new project in say, 2023 what another game designer, who created a game that lead to the Bioware Montreal being closed, said ten years ago? Agree... it's not the same... but it does mean approximating being certain which implies something more than outright guessing... which is really what you're doing. So, it was a fair question... on what do you base this "quite" certainty you're expressing? I'm basing my guess on that they won't just drop ME:A's story (and piss off new fans who happen to be into that story) in favor of canonizing an ME:T ending (pissing off numerous fans who never wanted a canon ending to the Trilogy) in favor of pandering to an abusively vocal group of fans who have been already lobbying for a canon ending for 5 years desite being told no numerous times. Also, I'm not certain ME:A is a "sunk" as that same group of vocally abusive fans thinks it is. I'm putting it's split between outright likes and dislikes for that game at much closer to a 50/50 split than you obviously are and, I think there are an even larger number of people who do see sufficient redeeming potential in that story to encourage Bioware to continue it.
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