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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 20:21:23 GMT
It was fun and enjoyable but yeah, the entire trilogy had more than a few plot holes and inconsistencies of differing proportions and that's without taking the jumbled narrative into consideration. And let's not forget the whole "bringing Shepard back from the dead" thing. ("I got better" WTF?!) That was out there but that's sci-fi for you. Gotta turn off the brain sometimes. |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 6, 2017 20:33:40 GMT
And let's not forget the whole "bringing Shepard back from the dead" thing. ("I got better" WTF?!) That was out there but that's sci-fi for you. Gotta turn off the brain sometimes. Meh. It just reminds me why I only played ME:A as a casual game. |
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Post by shechinah on Jul 6, 2017 20:45:30 GMT
And let's not forget the whole "bringing Shepard back from the dead" thing. ("I got better" WTF?!) That was out there but that's sci-fi for you. Gotta turn off the brain sometimes.Mass Effect 2 had it especially because it pretty much needed you to never think about its story because very little of it made sense. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 21:45:51 GMT
That was out there but that's sci-fi for you. Gotta turn off the brain sometimes.Mass Effect 2 had it especially because it pretty much needed you to never think about its story because very little of it made sense. Really? I don't see that at all other than the unreality of the resurrection. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 6, 2017 22:27:25 GMT
TBH that's sci fi in general. Convenient elements to move the plot. Also what do you mean Saren searching for something he had? He had Sovereign but not the means to activate the Relay. Shepardd mission isn't idiotic in ME2, s human dominated council is a player choice not a plot hole. Now what's this about forgetting how the Geth work? And Reaper retcons? I don't remember any retcons just development. Unless you refer to Leviathan and again not a retcon. I guess I'll have to walk you through it a bit. The Conduit was not a way to activate the Citadel Relay in the first place. It was merely a way to access the Presidium. Saren could already access the Presidium, until he blew his cover trying to get his hands on the Conduit. So could Benezia and her entourage, and there's nothing to prevent armed krogan from storming the elevators from the Wards even if they're ordinarily not permitted up there Shepard's ME2 mission in ME2 is idiotic because there's no way to know that the Collector problem can actually be solved by a commando team. Sure, thanks to the wonders of CRPG contrivance it turns out that the Collectors only have a single space station with a convenient self-destruct device, but neither Shepard nor TIM knew that until after Shepard entered the Omega-4 relay. The player shouldn't be allowed to choose a human-dominated council. The fundamental power relationships in the galaxy aren't changed by anything Shepard does. Even if the prime ministers of all NATO countries except Belgium were to be assassinated tomorrow, the probability of Belgium becoming the leading power in the alliance would still be zero. I don't need to talk about that silly voice recording, do I? I'll let vonuber handle his points. I might be willing to agree that the Reapers were never retconned; since Bio didn't actually bother to establish any continuity in the first place, retcon is probably the wrong term. But that just leaves the Reapers as an incoherent unplanned mess, which supports the contention that ME was never well-thought-out. |
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 6, 2017 22:41:34 GMT
No. At least not a direct sequel with Ryder as the protagonist.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 22:51:01 GMT
TBH that's sci fi in general. Convenient elements to move the plot. Also what do you mean Saren searching for something he had? He had Sovereign but not the means to activate the Relay. Shepardd mission isn't idiotic in ME2, s human dominated council is a player choice not a plot hole. Now what's this about forgetting how the Geth work? And Reaper retcons? I don't remember any retcons just development. Unless you refer to Leviathan and again not a retcon. I guess I'll have to walk you through it a bit. The Conduit was not a way to activate the Citadel Relay in the first place. It was merely a way to access the Presidium. Saren could already access the Presidium, until he blew his cover trying to get his hands on the Conduit. So could Benezia and her entourage, and there's nothing to prevent armed krogan from storming the elevators from the Wards even if they're ordinarily not permitted up there Shepard's ME2 mission in ME2 is idiotic because there's no way to know that the Collector problem can actually be solved by a commando team. Sure, thanks to the wonders of CRPG contrivance it turns out that the Collectors only have a single space station with a convenient self-destruct device, but neither Shepard nor TIM knew that until after Shepard entered the Omega-4 relay. The player shouldn't be allowed to choose a human-dominated council. The fundamental power relationships in the galaxy aren't changed by anything Shepard does. Even if the prime ministers of all NATO countries except Belgium were to be assassinated tomorrow, the probability of Belgium becoming the leading power in the alliance would still be zero. I don't need to talk about that silly voice recording, do I? I'll let vonuber handle his points. I might be willing to agree that the Reapers were never retconned; since Bio didn't actually bother to establish any continuity in the first place, retcon is probably the wrong term. But that just leaves the Reapers as an incoherent unplanned mess, which supports the contention that ME was never well-thought-out. Ok first why are you here if you can't stand the series as a whole? Now i know that about the Conduit that was the whole point and Saren couldn't do shit till he got the access code. Nothing states he already has it and it would arouse suspicion him going to the council chamber uninvited. Have you played any other RPG? If you are looking for realism you shouldn't be playing games. The whole point of the human council was a dick move to oppress everyone else. As to ME 2 duh that was the point it was a long shot. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 6, 2017 23:23:05 GMT
Technically, Bioware COULD reboot the entire OT by visiting the first contact war. Which, IMO, would be a far better story than anything we've had so far. A First Contact War game would lack the multitude of alien species that ME is known for and be linear as all hell. You can't make a branching game in prequel format. It's never going to work nor will it be interesting. Maybe it could work as a short spinoff game, but not a mainstay entry in the series. No thanks. I'm sorry, in what part of Andromeda was there a branching game? I can further that by saying the ending wasn't even a surprise. It was mundane. Better than other endings, but still pretty...linear. I can go on to say that even ME2 didn't have a "branching" ending. Unless you talk about the ability end a squadmate. But if you think ME3 was bad with it's rainbow endings, let me tell you about the 2 available in ME2. Your basis for interesting is incredibly flawed and subjective. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 23:31:26 GMT
A First Contact War game would lack the multitude of alien species that ME is known for and be linear as all hell. You can't make a branching game in prequel format. It's never going to work nor will it be interesting. Maybe it could work as a short spinoff game, but not a mainstay entry in the series. No thanks. I'm sorry, in what part of Andromeda was there a branching game? Your basis for interesting is incredibly flawed and subjective. An opinion is an opinion it is neither flawed nor perfect it simply is. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 6, 2017 23:35:35 GMT
I'm sorry, in what part of Andromeda was there a branching game? Your basis for interesting is incredibly flawed and subjective. An opinion is an opinion it is neither flawed nor perfect it simply is. Ah, but the "facts" an opinion is based on can be both flawed and subjective. Ala: what I actually said and not what you read. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 23:38:44 GMT
An opinion is an opinion it is neither flawed nor perfect it simply is. Ah, but the "facts" an opinion is based on can be both flawed and subjective. Ala: what I actually said and not what you read. True however the "facts" you base that on are based on opinion. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 6, 2017 23:43:28 GMT
Ah, but the "facts" an opinion is based on can be both flawed and subjective. Ala: what I actually said and not what you read. True however the "facts" you base that on are based on opinion. ...the facts? I mean, it's not my OPINION that Andromeda was a non-branching game. We all came to the same ending, therefore, no branching. It's not my opinion that ME2 was a two pronged fork in the road to ME3...with both prongs eventually merging back together... Those are FACTUAL things that you can experience for yourself. Not opinion. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2017 23:45:22 GMT
True however the "facts" you base that on are based on opinion. ...the facts? I mean, it's not my OPINION that Andromeda was a non-branching game. We all came to the same ending, therefore, no branching. It's not my opinion that ME2 was a two pronged fork in the road to ME3...with both prongs eventually merging back together... Those are FACTUAL things that you can experience for yourself. Not opinion. Well for Andromeda you are correct but not ME 2. There are multiple branching outcomes. |
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Post by vonuber on Jul 6, 2017 23:50:11 GMT
I'll let vonuber handle his points. The Geth in ME2 were a unique race based on individual programs reaching a consensus. They all live on a bunch of servers as one entity and the mobile units are disposable junk. Legion is unique in that he is comprised of 42 programmes and acts as an autonomous unit, but still not an individual, and more importantly have no interest in being one. Come ME3 we have Legion being a pinnichio and Bioware forgetting that the Geth are on servers and not the mobile units which for some reason become the Geth. What happens to all of the ones in the servers? More importantly did legion actually reach consensus or force it on them? Even more importantly legion as a mobile unit will exist as the main programme on a server (hence !legion) somewhere and shouldn't really die. Unless you are Bioware and forget the units are disposeable. As for the reapers, well where to start? How about in me2 they are all different forms representing each race - hence the human terminator? That goes out of the window. Or them not needing the citadel at all until it is plot required. Or them being individual eldritch machine gods as portrayed by sovereign until actually they are just robots who can be killed as required by being hugged to death. And so on. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 7, 2017 0:08:27 GMT
...the facts? I mean, it's not my OPINION that Andromeda was a non-branching game. We all came to the same ending, therefore, no branching. It's not my opinion that ME2 was a two pronged fork in the road to ME3...with both prongs eventually merging back together... Those are FACTUAL things that you can experience for yourself. Not opinion. Well for Andromeda you are correct but not ME 2. There are multiple branching outcomes. Your opinion of branching endings being that either the collector base exploded blue or exploded red? Squadmate death is irrelevant because it does nothing to change the outcome of the game. You have the illusion that your choice matters, but in the end, nothing actually changes. |
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Post by vonuber on Jul 7, 2017 0:21:18 GMT
You have the illusion that your choice matters, but in the end, nothing actually changes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 0:24:34 GMT
A First Contact War game would lack the multitude of alien species that ME is known for and be linear as all hell. You can't make a branching game in prequel format. It's never going to work nor will it be interesting. Maybe it could work as a short spinoff game, but not a mainstay entry in the series. No thanks. I'm sorry, in what part of Andromeda was there a branching game? I can further that by saying the ending wasn't even a surprise. It was mundane. Better than other endings, but still pretty...linear. I can go on to say that even ME2 didn't have a "branching" ending. Unless you talk about the ability end a squadmate. But if you think ME3 was bad with it's rainbow endings, let me tell you about the 2 available in ME2. Your basis for interesting is incredibly flawed and subjective. An opinion requires neither facts nor logic to be sound in the mind of the beholder, (i.e. religion) but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Also, trying super hard to use cool-sounding logic words makes you sound comical at best... keep that in mind when you wish to launch an assault on somebody. One of the very core foundations of all current ME games is a branching story. The story may not branch as much as thou shalt demand it, but it does branch. That fact doesn't just vanish because you wish to simplify something to the absolute nth degree in order to comply with you world view. You can deny that sure, but then you might as well start raving about a flat Earth or espouse the virtues of Scientology. You demand logic from me in a purely subjective matter, but then are incredibly inconsistent your own thinking. Newsflash, it doesn't work like that, you can't throw out facts and then demand facts from others. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.  Yet again, you expect me to explain what my personal definition of interesting is as you bash me for it because it doesn't fit your Spock-like need for "facts and logic." What a person finds interesting or not is extremely subjective and personal. There is absolutely no logic to it at its very core. I enjoy an ice cold Stella at the end of a long day but I sure as hell couldn't explain why any further than "because I like it.". You confuse the terms "objective" and "subjective" either ignorantly or purposefully, but I think your grasp of either is as nebulous as ME's future. Maybe you meant it, maybe you didn't, but you come of as an arrogant prick in your post and frankly, I have no interest in conversing with your... ilk.  |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2017 0:27:37 GMT
Well for Andromeda you are correct but not ME 2. There are multiple branching outcomes. Your opinion of branching endings being that either the collector base exploded blue or exploded red? Squadmate death is irrelevant because it does nothing to change the outcome of the game. You have the illusion that your choice matters, but in the end, nothing actually changes. No my opinion is that there is s difference in saving or destroying the base, and it does matter what happens to your squad. But you disagree do let's leave it at that and we're done. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 7, 2017 0:43:47 GMT
I'm sorry, in what part of Andromeda was there a branching game? I can further that by saying the ending wasn't even a surprise. It was mundane. Better than other endings, but still pretty...linear. I can go on to say that even ME2 didn't have a "branching" ending. Unless you talk about the ability end a squadmate. But if you think ME3 was bad with it's rainbow endings, let me tell you about the 2 available in ME2. Your basis for interesting is incredibly flawed and subjective. An opinion requires neither facts nor logic to be sound in the mind of the beholder, (i.e. religion) but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Also, trying super hard to use cool-sounding logic words makes you sound comical at best... keep that in mind when you wish to launch an assault on somebody. One of the very core foundations of all current ME games is a branching story. The story may not branch as much as thou shalt demand it, but it does branch. That fact doesn't just vanish because you wish to simplify something to the absolute nth degree in order to comply with you world view. You can deny that sure, but then you might as well start raving about a flat Earth or espouse the virtues of Scientology. You demand logic from me in a purely subjective matter, but then are incredibly inconsistent your own thinking. Newsflash, it doesn't work like that, you can't throw out facts and then demand facts from others. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. Yet again, you expect me to explain what my personal definition of interesting is as you bash me for it because it doesn't fit your Spock-like need for "facts and logic." What a person finds interesting or not is extremely subjective and personal. There is absolutely no logic to it at its very core. I enjoy an ice cold Stella at the end of a long day but I sure as hell couldn't explain why any further than "because I like it.". You confuse the terms "objective" and "subjective" either ignorantly or purposefully, but I think your grasp of either is as nebulous as ME's future. Maybe you meant it, maybe you didn't, but you come of as an arrogant prick in your post and frankly, I have no interest in conversing with your... ilk. Lol...whut? Wow. I have to have this conversation again? I'm sorry that I use words to get my point across...shall I get a crayon and draw pictures? (the words I used in the quoted text are like...words learned in elementary school...) I wasn't arguing your opinion. I said, "your basis for interesting is flawed and subjective" meaning, you're forming your opinion on flawed logic and subjective facts. IE: the illusion of choice in the OT. I'm not reducing it to anything. You said the first contact war would be linear (as a plot) and wouldn't fit. I cannot argue the lack of aliens to make sex with, but I can argue that the OT had anything resembling a branching story. Yes, you could change the characters in the story, but not the story itself. You're the first human spectre. You stall a reaper invasion and kill Saren. You die. Cerberus revives you and you help them stop the collectors. You destroy the batarian relay. You are "held?" for your "crime" on Earth. The Reapers Invade. You sacrifice yourself to stop the invasion. A branching story would change key plot elements, such as NOT becoming a spectre. NOT DYING. NOT working with Cerberus. NOT destroying the batarian relay. None of the actual plot to the OT was changeable. As I said, the only thing you could actually change was the characters in it. Actually, remembering the ending of ME3, the extended DLC IS THE ONLY TIME you actually experience a narrative difference due to player choice. 1/3 games. Holy crap I use actually a lot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 4:56:06 GMT
An opinion requires neither facts nor logic to be sound in the mind of the beholder, (i.e. religion) but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Also, trying super hard to use cool-sounding logic words makes you sound comical at best... keep that in mind when you wish to launch an assault on somebody. One of the very core foundations of all current ME games is a branching story. The story may not branch as much as thou shalt demand it, but it does branch. That fact doesn't just vanish because you wish to simplify something to the absolute nth degree in order to comply with you world view. You can deny that sure, but then you might as well start raving about a flat Earth or espouse the virtues of Scientology. You demand logic from me in a purely subjective matter, but then are incredibly inconsistent your own thinking. Newsflash, it doesn't work like that, you can't throw out facts and then demand facts from others. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. Yet again, you expect me to explain what my personal definition of interesting is as you bash me for it because it doesn't fit your Spock-like need for "facts and logic." What a person finds interesting or not is extremely subjective and personal. There is absolutely no logic to it at its very core. I enjoy an ice cold Stella at the end of a long day but I sure as hell couldn't explain why any further than "because I like it.". You confuse the terms "objective" and "subjective" either ignorantly or purposefully, but I think your grasp of either is as nebulous as ME's future. Maybe you meant it, maybe you didn't, but you come of as an arrogant prick in your post and frankly, I have no interest in conversing with your... ilk. Lol...whut? Wow. I have to have this conversation again? I'm sorry that I use words to get my point across...shall I get a crayon and draw pictures? (the words I used in the quoted text are like...words learned in elementary school...) I wasn't arguing your opinion. I said, "your basis for interesting is flawed and subjective" meaning, you're forming your opinion on flawed logic and subjective facts. IE: the illusion of choice in the OT. I'm not reducing it to anything. You said the first contact war would be linear (as a plot) and wouldn't fit. I cannot argue the lack of aliens to make sex with, but I can argue that the OT had anything resembling a branching story. Yes, you could change the characters in the story, but not the story itself. You're the first human spectre. You stall a reaper invasion and kill Saren. You die. Cerberus revives you and you help them stop the collectors. You destroy the batarian relay. You are "held?" for your "crime" on Earth. The Reapers Invade. You sacrifice yourself to stop the invasion. A branching story would change key plot elements, such as NOT becoming a spectre. NOT DYING. NOT working with Cerberus. NOT destroying the batarian relay. None of the actual plot to the OT was changeable. As I said, the only thing you could actually change was the characters in it. Actually, remembering the ending of ME3, the extended DLC IS THE ONLY TIME you actually experience a narrative difference due to player choice. 1/3 games. Holy crap I use actually a lot. Yeah, no. Not only did I pin you correctly from the get go and you continue to be an asshat, but you purposefully twist the the meaning of a branching story line to fit your narrative. As I stated before, just because the story of ME:A or any other ME game didn't branch enough for you personally doesn't mean they didn't branch out because they certainly did. Your view of a branching story line is myopic at best. You continue to assume that my definition of interesting is somehow factual, even though no one's version of "interesting" is factual and is instead completely opinion-based. You continue to talk about facts and how mine are "subjective" whilst dodging actual facts. I'm not going to argue anything with you if you can't even base your points around a agreed upon piece of information nor will I debate with someone who moves the goalposts as damn frequently as you. Want to be taken seriously? Drop the attitude, stop being a contrarian, learn the differences between facts, opinions, subjectivity and objectivity. Otherwise, you're just another troll to me for all intents and purposes.  |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 7, 2017 5:12:54 GMT
I didn't say that your opinion was wrong. I said the BASIS on which you form said opinion is wrong. Referring to your assumption, more accurately assertion, that there was some sort of story branch to the original trilogy or even ME:A.
At least the original trilogy had the illusion of choice, but you're argument that there's some sort of branching story line in ME:A only furthers the concept that you're mistaken. A branching plot is not subjective.
It looks like this: plot------==========
I can't get any more basic with the words that I use to describe my point. This diatribe needs to end, so, I end my part of it with drawing the above in hopes that it reaches you in some way. You can chose to be offended by the words that I use; or you can read them and interpret the meaning. I cannot make you do either; the conclusion you come to is your own.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 5:15:05 GMT
I didn't say that your opinion was wrong. I said the BASIS on which you form said opinion is wrong. Referring to your assumption, more accurately assertion, that there was some sort of story branch to the original trilogy or even ME:A. At least the original trilogy had the illusion of choice, but you're argument that there's some sort of branching story line in ME:A only furthers the concept that you're mistaken. A branching plot is not subjective. It looks like this: plot------========== I can't get any more basic with the words that I use to describe my point. This diatribe needs to end, so, I end my part of it with drawing the above in hopes that it reaches you in some way. You can chose to be offended by the words that I use; or you can read them and interpret the meaning. I cannot make you do either; the conclusion you come to is your own. :oki: |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 7, 2017 5:34:43 GMT
Ok first why are you here if you can't stand the series as a whole? Huh? Don't be ridiculous. I've said no such thing, ever. My position is and always has been that Mass Effect is a muddled, poorly-plotted mess, which I like anyway. Access code? What on earth are you talking about? Vigil gave Shepard a disc, but not Saren; if they'd met Saren would have blown Vigil up. Shepard walks into the council chamber at will; why couldn't Saren? And my objection to the human council was that it was incoherent nonsense; saying that it was only there to be a dick move is not any kind of response to that criticism. Bio could have come up with a dick move which wasn't incoherent nonsense. You seem to have completely lost track of what we're talking about. I'm not saying that the MET makes less sense than other RPGs -- it makes less sense than some RPGs, but more sense than others. I'm just saying that it's badly plotted. And since you're not actually denying that, do we really have a substantive disagreement? It sounds like you're just upset about me being mean to the trilogy. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 7, 2017 5:51:07 GMT
Also what do you mean Saren searching for something he had? He had Sovereign but not the means to activate the Relay. The trouble with the conduit is that it's a McGuffin that ultimately doesn't really do anything at all for the villains of the story, and actually makes them kind of dumb. The truth is that Sovereign would have been at a greater advantage if it simply bumrushed the Citadel with the geth ships right from the start and not even bother with this silly beacon. No one would know what the frak was going on, the Citadel fleets would be totally in disarray. No one would know what the hell this ship was doing while it was doing the tentacle porn thing all over the Citadel's central hub, then the relay would open and the Shit Show of Doom can finally commence. When it comes down to it, the reaper and its turian sidekick were taking the extremely long way around fixing a technical issue. |
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Deana
N2
Reaper Ship Attack Noise
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Porcelyn
Posts: 196 Likes: 254
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Jun 25, 2024 23:10:44 GMT
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Deana
Reaper Ship Attack Noise
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Jan 29, 2017 15:18:06 GMT
January 2017
deana
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Porcelyn
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Post by Deana on Jul 7, 2017 6:40:07 GMT
I'd love to have a sequel but I don't have much hope for it.
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