warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Jul 10, 2017 21:32:20 GMT
People forget that it took the combined power of several big and powerful fleets to beat Sovereign at the end of ME1 and the only reason was that Shepard killed the evil cyber-zombie Saren who was plugged into Sovereign's wi-fi (seriously what the fuck is up with that crazy shit) And even after all that the fleets they just barely beat it. So a massive conventional fleet battle wasn't going to beat an armada of Reapers at the end of ME3. And that even the Protheans with their massive armada got hammered by the Reapers. Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. It amazes me that some people wanted some weird "victory by military might". Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. |
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Post by suikoden on Jul 10, 2017 21:36:14 GMT
And that even the Protheans with their massive armada got hammered by the Reapers. Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. It amazes me that some people wanted some weird "victory by military might". Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. Anyone else still subscribe to the indoctrination theory? |
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 21:37:15 GMT
And that even the Protheans with their massive armada got hammered by the Reapers. Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. It amazes me that some people wanted some weird "victory by military might". Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. At least he got a true Reaper voice with the EC if you shot him and they did make both Meer and Hale do voice over for him, which made him a bit less weird...  |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 21:37:48 GMT
Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. How many dreadnoughts did the turians use when they were able to destroy several capital ships during the Battle of Palaven? Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, the turian dreadnoughts locked targets first, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships. |
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 21:40:05 GMT
Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. How many dreadnoughts did the turians use when they were able to destroy several capital ships during the Battle of Palaven? Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, the turian dreadnoughts locked targets first, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.
also from the same Codex. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 21:44:46 GMT
The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes on turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.
also from the same Codex. So? That has nothing to do with saying the codex says 4 dreadnoughts are needed to destroy a capital ship. I would not have defended the planet. I would have fired on the reapers while they're firing at the planet. |
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outlaw1109
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 10, 2017 21:50:39 GMT
And that even the Protheans with their massive armada got hammered by the Reapers. Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. It amazes me that some people wanted some weird "victory by military might". Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. An aside: I find it curious that a thread about the writing in Andromeda becomes a criticism of the trilogy. To the Starchild deal, supposedly this was a backroom decision that the rest of team did not know about. I personally wonder what the end result would have been if the original writer had stayed with the series. There were breadcrumbs of a better story that just tapered off into the abyss... The ending of ME:1 made me feel like there was going to have to be either a "big goddam gun" involved or that there was going to have to be a "chekhov's gun" ending to the Trilogy. ME: 2 came and there was a wasted opportunity to expose some sort of weakness that would enable conventional defeat, and no actual progress was made in the prevention of the invasion...so I was pretty well prepared either some sort of BS revelation (Harbinger: "Shepard, I am your father") or some magic off switch for all of the reapers. To tie this into the OP: a previous post I made here talks about how there is a divide with two sides to it. I'm not saying that EVERYONE BELONGS HERE, just that a lot of people seem to subscribe to defending the trilogy or Andromeda. But maybe, just maybe, we can all admit that Bioware just isn't the bestest at writing video games. |
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 21:51:31 GMT
The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes on turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.
also from the same Codex. So? That has nothing to do with saying the codex says 4 dreadnoughts are needed to destroy a capital ship. I would not have defended the planet. I would have fired on the reapers while they're firing at the planet. Go to Reaper vulnerabilities. And any missed shot would also bombard the planet, killing the population and destroying every infrastructure in the blast radius. I think the Reapers would be more willing to say thank you... |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 21:53:28 GMT
Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. Or have it setup where destroying Harbinger ends the reaper war. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 21:55:43 GMT
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_ReapersGo to Reaper vulnerabilities. And any missed shot would also bombard the planet, killing the population and destroying every infrastructure in the blast radius. I think the Reapers would be more willing to say thank you... So? If the destroyers are firing at the planet below, with their backs to the turians, it would be hard for the turians to miss. |
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Post by colfoley on Jul 10, 2017 21:56:28 GMT
And that even the Protheans with their massive armada got hammered by the Reapers. Seriously, the codex states you need 4 dreadnoughts concentrating fire in one Reaper "Sovereign class" just to put its shields down, and that considering they have the time to attack before the Reaper does the same and not forgeting the Reaper weapons have more fire range and no kinetic shield is able to withstand it. It amazes me that some people wanted some weird "victory by military might". Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. exactly. I wanted smart and tactical. If it were me i wouldn't have had the crucible but i would have had the alliance use a rumor of it to draw the Reapers into a trap. Then detonate the Sol relay. -Or- Use part of ME 2 to develop weapons and techniques. -or- A philosophical victory where you convince the Reapers their not needed. |
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Post by colfoley on Jul 10, 2017 21:57:38 GMT
Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. An aside: I find it curious that a thread about the writing in Andromeda becomes a criticism of the trilogy. To the Starchild deal, supposedly this was a backroom decision that the rest of team did not know about. I personally wonder what the end result would have been if the original writer had stayed with the series. There were breadcrumbs of a better story that just tapered off into the abyss... The ending of ME:1 made me feel like there was going to have to be either a "big goddam gun" involved or that there was going to have to be a "chekhov's gun" ending to the Trilogy. ME: 2 came and there was a wasted opportunity to expose some sort of weakness that would enable conventional defeat, and no actual progress was made in the prevention of the invasion...so I was pretty well prepared either some sort of BS revelation (Harbinger: "Shepard, I am your father") or some magic off switch for all of the reapers. To tie this into the OP: a previous post I made here talks about how there is a divide with two sides to it. I'm not saying that EVERYONE BELONGS HERE, just that a lot of people seem to subscribe to defending the trilogy or Andromeda. But maybe, just maybe, we can all admit that Bioware just isn't the bestest at writing video games. well aside from ME 1 (imo) the story writing in the OT was a bit of a mess. |
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 10, 2017 22:02:20 GMT
I've been okay with the game as I've played through it. The gameplay can be fun. But I have to be honest, "well written" wasn't how I'd describe it.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 22:15:42 GMT
exactly. I wanted smart and tactical. If it were me i wouldn't have had the crucible but i would have had the alliance use a rumor of it to draw the Reapers into a trap. Then detonate the Sol relay. Some would be destroyed, but not all. That might lead to more destroyed reapers, but reapers would still win Even if Shepard had a 1000 page report proving the thing and its toys weren't needed, it wouldn't work. Its programming had to be changed. Reapers win by numbers alone The reapers have a lot. I would also include processing ships and troop transport ships. The scene showing the reapers approaching the Milky Way, after the suicide mission, shows what looks to be processing ships and troop transport ships along with other reaper ships
I believe it was Casey Hudson or Patrick Weekes that said that only a few destroyers are lost each cycle while one capital ship is lost every few cycles.
I will use the number 3 to represent few.
That means that 6 667 capitals ships have been destroyed if I use the 50 000 year cycle over 1 billion years and 60 000 destroyers are destroyed in the last 1 billion years.
So when the reapers arrive at the beginning of our cycle they have about 13 333 capital ships plus destroyers, processing ships and troop transport ships
Of course I have no idea how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening. Leviathan mentions that the intelligence directed the reapers to build the relays so the number from above most likely would be lower. If the reapers have been around longer than 1 billion years, then the number above most likely would be higher. At the moment its just guessing until Bioware says how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening
If using the 13 333 number from above, there is no way we have a chance to defeat them without the crucible. Had the reapers not been stupid in ME3, the crucible wouldn't of been built. With that number the reapers have, the only way to defeat them is to find the plans for the crucible, build it and then use it before the reapers enter the galaxy |
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Post by shechinah on Jul 10, 2017 22:18:13 GMT
Yeah, I feel like the Starchild thing wasn't the best option, they should have kept brainstorming, but it was clear that victory would be the result of a backdoor/tech solution. An aside: I find it curious that a thread about the writing in Andromeda becomes a criticism of the trilogy. I haven't read the whole thread through but some of the writing flaws in Andromeda are, to me, continuations of some of the writing flaws there were in the OT. This goes beyond but includes the all-tell-no-show of the asari's perception of gender. There were indications in the OT that the asari or, at least, that not all of them viewed their race as female. This made sense exactly because of their biology and history. The lack of commitment to it, however, made it come across as incredibly half-assed back then and now it comes across as inconsistent. One of the ways it was half-assed was how the asari exclusively used female pronouns and titles. Basically, some of Andromeda's flaws can be seen as a case of the Franchise Original Sin trope and so to discuss them in regards to Andromeda sometimes includes discussing in regards to the Original Trilogy. |
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Post by colfoley on Jul 10, 2017 22:19:02 GMT
exactly. I wanted smart and tactical. If it were me i wouldn't have had the crucible but i would have had the alliance use a rumor of it to draw the Reapers into a trap. Then detonate the Sol relay. Some would be destroyed, but not all. That might lead to more destroyed reapers, but reapers would still win Even if Shepard had a 1000 page report proving the thing and its toys weren't needed, it wouldn't work. Its programming had to be changed. Reapers win by numbers alone The reapers have a lot. I would also include processing ships and troop transport ships. The scene showing the reapers approaching the Milky Way, after the suicide mission, shows what looks to be processing ships and troop transport ships along with other reaper ships
I believe it was Casey Hudson or Patrick Weekes that said that only a few destroyers are lost each cycle while one capital ship is lost every few cycles.
I will use the number 3 to represent few.
That means that 6 667 capitals ships have been destroyed if I use the 50 000 year cycle over 1 billion years and 60 000 destroyers are destroyed in the last 1 billion years.
So when the reapers arrive at the beginning of our cycle they have about 13 333 capital ships plus destroyers, processing ships and troop transport ships
Of course I have no idea how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening. Leviathan mentions that the intelligence directed the reapers to build the relays so the number from above most likely would be lower. If the reapers have been around longer than 1 billion years, then the number above most likely would be higher. At the moment its just guessing until Bioware says how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening
If using the 13 333 number from above, there is no way we have a chance to defeat them without the crucible. Had the reapers not been stupid in ME3, the crucible wouldn't of been built. With that number the reapers have, the only way to defeat them is to find the plans for the crucible, build it and then use it before the reapers enter the galaxy perhaps. But at least it would avoid the god awful synthesis ending. Seriously that's my one remaining complaint about the ending. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2017 22:26:19 GMT
perhaps. But at least it would avoid the god awful synthesis ending. Seriously that's my one remaining complaint about the ending. I don't care about the green crap. I believe Bioware put it in for comedians to use for their opening act to give the audience a good laugh |
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 22:29:10 GMT
Some would be destroyed, but not all. That might lead to more destroyed reapers, but reapers would still win Even if Shepard had a 1000 page report proving the thing and its toys weren't needed, it wouldn't work. Its programming had to be changed. Reapers win by numbers alone The reapers have a lot. I would also include processing ships and troop transport ships. The scene showing the reapers approaching the Milky Way, after the suicide mission, shows what looks to be processing ships and troop transport ships along with other reaper ships
I believe it was Casey Hudson or Patrick Weekes that said that only a few destroyers are lost each cycle while one capital ship is lost every few cycles.
I will use the number 3 to represent few.
That means that 6 667 capitals ships have been destroyed if I use the 50 000 year cycle over 1 billion years and 60 000 destroyers are destroyed in the last 1 billion years.
So when the reapers arrive at the beginning of our cycle they have about 13 333 capital ships plus destroyers, processing ships and troop transport ships
Of course I have no idea how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening. Leviathan mentions that the intelligence directed the reapers to build the relays so the number from above most likely would be lower. If the reapers have been around longer than 1 billion years, then the number above most likely would be higher. At the moment its just guessing until Bioware says how long the 50 000 year cycle has been happening
If using the 13 333 number from above, there is no way we have a chance to defeat them without the crucible. Had the reapers not been stupid in ME3, the crucible wouldn't of been built. With that number the reapers have, the only way to defeat them is to find the plans for the crucible, build it and then use it before the reapers enter the galaxy perhaps. But at least it would avoid the god awful synthesis ending. Seriously that's my one remaining complaint about the ending. What Synthesis?! There is only Destroy the Reapers, Control the Reapers or game over (Refuse).   Anyway, bottom line I like MEA but after everything added i still prefer ME3. Maybe this will change when/if there is DLC for Andromeda, but i doubt it. |
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Post by abaris on Jul 10, 2017 22:29:51 GMT
After watching all the endings on youtube, I never played them and went for mehem when it was out. Better some cheese than what the writers envisioned, to use a friendly word of how the endings turned out.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 22:33:11 GMT
Sorry but Mehem is a joke. I would still prefer "cheese" than some LSD induced fanfiction.
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 10, 2017 22:35:58 GMT
perhaps. But at least it would avoid the god awful synthesis ending. Seriously that's my one remaining complaint about the ending. I don't care about the green crap. I believe Bioware put it in for comedians to use for their opening act to give the audience a good laugh IDK if you're far off with this... I mean, at least to me, it felt like they were trying to make the Reapers have depth; to have a reason for mindlessly slaughtering entire civilizations since the dawn of time. It makes more sense to just have us NOT understand their intentions. We didn't need to; they were exterminating us. |
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Post by cypherj on Jul 10, 2017 22:37:53 GMT
perhaps. But at least it would avoid the god awful synthesis ending. Seriously that's my one remaining complaint about the ending. I don't care about the green crap. I believe Bioware put it in for comedians to use for their opening act to give the audience a good laugh I honestly thought that Bioware portrayed Synthesis as the optimal ending, which is scary. |
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Post by abaris on Jul 10, 2017 22:39:29 GMT
It makes more sense to just have us NOT understand their intentions. We didn't need to; they were exterminating us. It's circular bullshit in any case. They wrote themselves into a corner, simple as that. One might think that they already knew how this story ended when they decided on making a trilogy, but they went for anticlimatic and WTF. So you can say about the OT the route is the goal, not the ending. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 10, 2017 23:11:40 GMT
It makes more sense to just have us NOT understand their intentions. We didn't need to; they were exterminating us. It's circular bullshit in any case. They wrote themselves into a corner, simple as that. One might think that they already knew how this story ended when they decided on making a trilogy, but they went for anticlimatic and WTF. So you can say about the OT the route is the goal, not the ending. ...they changed writers in the middle of ME:2. Which is probably the reason the plot lost itself. Drew Karpyshyn probably had an ending that made sense...but one can only speculate. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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January 2017
swobyj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 10, 2017 23:18:54 GMT
I have a feeling that the Archon will return in some way or another. No, no, no! He's as dead as Shepard! ...  |
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For Prez
