kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jul 11, 2017 15:35:17 GMT
I will say this, one of the key weaknesses I find in the writing of the game is the way terminology is handled in small details. Examples: words like Heleus, Kett, Scourge. The asari captain on the Lucy-whatever says "kett" when they couldn't have learned that word yet. The kett use the word scourge, even though it was a term the Nexus yokels thought up. The angara don't have their own word for the cluster and just use Heleus and even Andromeda. I always found those little things bothersome. Guesses: -Nexus and Leusinia learn kett from kett. Neither are so apart from the kett as to not be able to translate and share the information of language. -Kett 'Scourge' is a translation of our Scourge. They'd have another name for it that we translate to us. -Angara have more local perspective. Like with all tech (I could bring up several examples), they may have the capacity to reach for high levels of it, but they have been kept down by circumstance and through that, culture. *Cough* analogue for Africa. There's actually a word for that in writing, but it's been a long time since I've thought about it. It has something to do with helping move the narration along.
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Post by geralt on Jul 11, 2017 17:03:48 GMT
That is the second biggest obstacle, over "Refuse", which I still count as an ending. I actually never thought the endings were bad. I did only play after the EC came out. The EC really did fix the ending, but Synthes still really personally annoys me. It didn't, it was a double down on a twisted notion of "doing something different" and they weren't happy at the numbers of folk that hated their idea. How the refuse ending plays out shows it was a big "f you" towards that audience.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 18:01:03 GMT
That is the second biggest obstacle, over "Refuse", which I still count as an ending. I actually never thought the endings were bad. I did only play after the EC came out. The EC really did fix the ending, but Synthes still really personally annoys me.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 18:09:53 GMT
My own analysis:
MEA would probably have been a better game if it didn't have "Mass Effect" in the title. It's ostensibly a sequel, but jettisons so much of that old setting in the name of "artistic integrity"
The characters are also, sadly, pretty one-dimensional for a Bioware game. A pity since the backstories for the characters hold such promise, but they all seem to fixate on just one thing in their lives: Cora with the asari commandos she worked with, Peebee and her "Remtech", etc. Their fixations were, frankly, unnatural.
Story itself is...eh. Not bad. Could have been a lot better. Could have been much MUCH worse, as ME3 showed us. But I still hold that SAM was the "real" protagonist for MEA. Ryder was just the taxi service.
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brandoftime
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Post by brandoftime on Jul 11, 2017 18:16:13 GMT
Drack is definitely not one dimensional, I think we just didn't get enough dialogue with everyone, it's spread out so thin. Same amount of dialogue worked fine in previous ME games at only 40 hours. But 100 plus, it needed more options. Also, Lexi is not one dimensional, yet again, not enough screen time
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Jul 11, 2017 18:29:21 GMT
The EC really did fix the ending, but Synthes still really personally annoys me. It didn't, it was a double down on a twisted notion of "doing something different" and they weren't happy at the numbers of folk that hated their idea. How the refuse ending plays out shows it was a big "f you" towards that audience. I sugest you stop taking things so personaly. Refuse was just a fancy game over sequence, or did you trully expect the citadel fleets to actually defeat the Reapers? EC fixed the huge lore break that it was the Relays exploding (as we saw in Arrival DLC) and also provided information on the state of the galaxy and the characters involved in the fight and the Normandy's fate. You may not like it how they changed the endings but don't lie saying nothing was fixed.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 11, 2017 18:34:42 GMT
The EC really did fix the ending, but Synthes still really personally annoys me. You need to accept people have different opinions.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 18:37:02 GMT
You need to accept people have different opinions. And how is unilaterally stating "EC really did fix the endings" accepting different opinions?
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brandoftime
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Post by brandoftime on Jul 11, 2017 18:38:12 GMT
I was late to the party, only playing the trilogy six months ago, so I never got hit with the ending in its original form. I saw it on Youtube. Ugh. They did improve over that original crap fest. The fact they did anything about it, is so rare in video games, got to give Bioware credit here.
Rewriting to include some aspects of Indoctrination theory, or some other ending would have required a re master of the whole trilogy, which they have said they don't want to do. In a perfect universe, they would give us an anniversary edition of the ME trilogy totally redone in frostbite engine, keep most of the original story, character dialogues, but expanded and totally re write the ending.
Drew Karpyshyn was the original author, and he left after ME2. His idea for the ending made more sense, involving the dark energy concept hinted at even in the first game.
What they were thinking, releasing ME3 with that original ending . . . It seems like there is a fundamental disconnect between them and the fans sometimes. But to be fair, when they get it right, they get it knocked out of the park. KOTOR, DAO - and most of the ME trilogy except that ending.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 11, 2017 18:40:08 GMT
You need to accept people have different opinions. And how is unilaterally stating "EC really did fix the endings" accepting different opinions? I'm referring to you laughing at his opinion. He stated his you laughed.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 18:49:39 GMT
And how is unilaterally stating "EC really did fix the endings" accepting different opinions? I'm referring to you laughing at his opinion. He stated his you laughed. I could have said a lot more. But refrained, because things might have gotten...impolite. And because it's been five years. But thanks for respecting opinions. Or something.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 11, 2017 18:53:07 GMT
You need to accept people have different opinions. And how is unilaterally stating "EC really did fix the endings" accepting different opinions? i said: the ec really did fix the endings I did not say: the ec really fixed the endings and if you disagree you're an idiot.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 18:56:21 GMT
And how is unilaterally stating "EC really did fix the endings" accepting different opinions? i said: the ec really did fix the endingsI did not say: the ec really fixed the endings and if you disagree you're an idiot. That is your opinion. To me EC was a giant middle finger to the audience. It did not "really" fix anything. Notice how I'm not calling you an idiot either?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 11, 2017 18:59:23 GMT
i said: the ec really did fix the endingsI did not say: the ec really fixed the endings and if you disagree you're an idiot. That is your opinion. To me EC was a giant middle finger to the audience. It did not "really" fix anything. Notice how I'm not calling you an idiot either? sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 19:01:21 GMT
That is your opinion. To me EC was a giant middle finger to the audience. It did not "really" fix anything. Notice how I'm not calling you an idiot either? sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others. I was laughing at your opinion being stated as an established fact, when it is in fact still a radioactive topic five years later.
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geralt
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Post by geralt on Jul 11, 2017 19:03:18 GMT
I sugest you stop taking things so personaly. Refuse was just a fancy game over sequence, or did you trully expect the citadel fleets to actually defeat the Reapers? An objective truth was given as retort to a subjective opinion attempting to pass as fact. Where does "personally" come into it? I said nothing of the fleets or how to defeat anything, I commented on the writing and it's underlying meaning towards the audience. Hudson and Mac were pissed so many rejected their acid trip inspired ending. They purposely put in more dialogue for the build-up to emphasise the crucible was the only possible means to victory, I.E. "you follow our original ending path, or take the highway." Those that didn't want to play ball, got the f you ending with the added insult of the next gens "winning" by using the crucible and hologram kid. If thousands of your fans go out their way to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for a kids charity as a way to tell you that you designed a bad ending, then you made a bad ending. If your office receive hundreds of colour coded cupcakes to make the point all your endings are the same and rubbish, then you made a bad ending. Bethesda rightly get flak for their low bug testing quality, but at least they saw the light when they got the responses in to the Fallout 3 ending. (Much smaller outcry compared to the one ME3 generated.) They swallowed their pride and made a big change to keep folk happy. EC fixed the huge lore break that it was the Relays exploding (as we saw in Arrival DLC) and also provided information on the state of the galaxy and the characters involved in the fight and the Normandy's fate. You may not like it how they changed the endings but don't lie saying nothing was fixed. Pity it didn't fix the actual huge lore break, as in virtually all the entire ending sequence. If you really think it works, watching Smudboy's Youtube video on the EC puts it over in a video better than I possibly can on here so I direct you over to that. Put it this way, if it was that good and brilliant, we wouldn't had to literally flee an entire galaxy, and go to Andromeda for the next set of Mass Effect stories. Good writing and good stories find a reasonable and creative to get around these issues. Plenty of games with multiple endings had direct squeals carrying on with things. Mass Effect didn't need to move so far away, but I guess it's a reflection of the modern day Bioware. Creative risk taking sadly now comes 2nd to trying to turn over some safe numbers in the profit column of the spreadsheet. If you can't believe that, then ask yourself why they released Andromeda the state it was in for latch March. That's right, to make it on time for the end of the financial year!
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 11, 2017 19:05:08 GMT
sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others. I was laughing at your opinion being stated as an established fact, when it is in fact still a radioactive topic five years later. No he did not do that. He may not have added "IMO" but it is clear that it was his opinion. Do not twist others views.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 11, 2017 19:11:47 GMT
sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others. I was laughing at your opinion being stated as an established fact, when it is in fact still a radioactive topic five years later. that is also something i did not do.
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Post by Melcara on Jul 11, 2017 19:11:54 GMT
That is your opinion. To me EC was a giant middle finger to the audience. It did not "really" fix anything. Notice how I'm not calling you an idiot either? sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others. As though the MEA defense squad doesn't bombard anyone who disagrees with them with belittling gifs? Not trying to start anything, but it seems kind of shallow to blame someone for doing something a lot of other people here do.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 19:18:36 GMT
I was laughing at your opinion being stated as an established fact, when it is in fact still a radioactive topic five years later. that is also something i did not do. Yes, you did! The post is literally one page back so you can check "EC really did fix the endings" *sigh* I'm out. I don't feel like bashing my head against this particular wall right now.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Jul 11, 2017 19:19:57 GMT
Pity it didn't fix the actual huge lore break, as in virtually all the entire ending sequence. If you really think it works, watching Smudboy's Youtube video on the EC puts it over in a video better than I possibly can on here so I direct you over to that. Put it this way, if it was that good and brilliant, we wouldn't had to literally flee an entire galaxy, and go to Andromeda for the next set of Mass Effect stories. Good writing and good stories find a reasonable and creative to get around these issues. Plenty of games with multiple endings had direct squeals carrying on with things. Mass Effect didn't need to move so far away, but I guess it's a reflection of the modern day Bioware. Creative risk taking sadly now comes 2nd to trying to turn over some safe numbers in the profit column of the spreadsheet. If you can't believe that, then ask yourself why they released Andromeda the state it was in for latch March. That's right, to make it on time for the end of the financial year! First Smudboy is a troll, his words and videos are nonsense and not worth the time spend to watch it. Also what huge lore break? I just said the biggest lore break in the original ending (exploding Relays) was fixed, which one are you mentioning? Agree about the financial year, but i really doubt that was the cause of Mass Effect Andromeda bugs on release. Both ME3 and DAI had the same release window.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 11, 2017 19:21:14 GMT
I was laughing at your opinion being stated as an established fact, when it is in fact still a radioactive topic five years later. that is also something i did not do. You actually do that all the time - with me, my posts are clearly my opinions, I don't pretend to play them off as facts for everyone because that would be ridiculous. You have a way of writing your posts where you present your ideas as 100% factual truth - that's largely why people have a tendency to call you out in particular.
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Post by lgp22 on Jul 11, 2017 19:22:20 GMT
That is the second biggest obstacle, over "Refuse", which I still count as an ending. I actually never thought the endings were bad. I did only play after the EC came out. The EC really did fix the ending, but Synthes still really personally annoys me. The EC created new holes too, like how the Normandy lands in front of harbinger, and all he does is stare at it. Now that i think about what Shepard should have done is call in the Normandy, fly over to the beam, land in front of it and then enter it with his crew!
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Post by themikefest on Jul 11, 2017 19:28:41 GMT
the extended cut left some questions unanswered
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Post by smilesja on Jul 11, 2017 19:31:01 GMT
sure but you posted that laughing gif which has traditionally been used to Belittle the opinions of others. As though the MEA defense squad doesn't bombard anyone who disagrees with them with belittling gifs? Not trying to start anything, but it seems kind of shallow to blame someone for doing something a lot of other people here do. Why are you blaming him for something others are doing?
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