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Post by Jacket on Jul 9, 2017 13:12:34 GMT
I don't think it's well written at all. It feels rushed and clumsy. Another game where humanz save everyone
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zaeedisking
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Post by zaeedisking on Jul 9, 2017 13:14:45 GMT
so people can post dozens of threads trashing the game or turning even positive threads into war zones but post one thread that says 'this game deserves a second look for x,y and z' and the mere existence of the thread proves the opposite of what the thread says. Huh? I think MEAs script isn't the only thing that needs a second look. As for the rest...i just do not remember at all what you are saying. The game said scanners weren't working because of the scourge and then SAM was cut off. When SAM was reestablished the scanners worked. As far as the bits of the scourge it. consistently blocked scans and caused problems throughout the game. If Bioware tear into MEA and give it a major overhaul, that's the junction where the game has earned a 2nd look and some reappraisal. That isn't going to happen obviously, so what we've got is pretty much what we've got, and a 2nd look isn't going to change a lot. You have one chance to make a first impression, and they were already heavy under the microscope after the cloud the OT finished under. That's why I believed going into it, this was going to be an excellent and well crafted game, I didn't think they could be so stupid to risk another negative storm after the last time, boy was I sure proven wrong! The 18 months put into it and what the output was, I suppose an achievement on some sort of level, but I wouldn't brag too much about it. They made a bad job out of the time and resources they were given. We've read about the reasons why that was, and while that may certainly explain the reasons for the state of the game, that cannot be used to excuse it, else we lower the standards for ourselves as gamers. Likewise for EA who would think they can push out more games in the state like MEA was in. Remember, they thought we were that dumb and blind, they release the game thinking we would just lap it up. That isn't acceptable, and that is one of the big reasons why I think folk give the thumbs down to the game as much as the state of the game itself. A loud and clear message needs to be sent to both EA and Bioware, this kind of thing cannot stand again. Hopefully that message has been received loud and clear, but then I thought that was the case post all the ME3 ending fallout. As for the story *sigh* I didn't think I'd need to go into this, but in some good faith I'll do it this one time. Let's start straight from the opening text, this is likely sufficient for those coming into the ME universe for the first time in this game. Those of us that played the OT, it’s baffling to the point of major head scratching. How did they develop the tech to travel that far, that quickly, and so soon after the battle of the Citadel? Factoring as well, it took 20 years for the council to just re-consider allowing one human spectre candidate to join up their ranks, so why this sudden and free amount of major tech sharing? It’s apparently no strings attached, and so significant it could render use of the relays redundant. That needs major explanation to hold up, or the narrative collapses under the weight of it. Then there are all the other sub-questions that leak from it without those explanations. How do they discharge their drives in the great void? If they are able to do so, is it done while “on the go”? Then if it is, how is that achieved? How do they take care of food/water? How did they even get sight of these planets? Why not explore the 99% of the Milky Way that’s yet to be seen? I’m aware some comics, books and promotion material has come out to try and hand-wave some of these away (while still avoiding where this tech came from), but if it’s not in the game it cannot be factored in by the gamer. We paid 60 bucks, its Bioware’s job to put together the narrative that incorporates all the key and required plot/story points, not ours to go out spend more money/time, or play/watch other mediums. As part of narrative cohesion, questions are an expected by-product of any story. There are natural and harmless questions, then there are the wrong and harmful type of questions, of which if there are too many, they blur and eventually block sight of most of your story. What you don't want is your audience/gamer to be asking the wrong type of questions. Now our hero’s entry to the bridge, we’re told that the ship is “drifting” – question, why didn’t the ship come to a full stop when coming out of FTL? Or at least when they spotted the space cloud? We apparently had sight of this planet 600 years ago which didn’t show this cloud, so stopping to check it out first might have been a good idea Captain Dunsail. Were the scanners working? Then we hear the flight controls aren’t responding, was this before or after contact with the cloud? If they were responding before, why didn’t you reverse engines? This all smacks of it either being contrived or just sloppy, and I’ll side more to the latter so far. Next we’re told main power is out, we’ve lost telemetry and that power reserves won’t “last”, well okay how long is that then? We talking minutes, hours, days? Important information to know not only for the characters, but for the gamer to set some scale to our task, and build some tension to the opening! Skipping ahead a bit, SAM tells us the cloud is dampening sensors, so the planet can’t be scanned to find out what the deal is with it. So we’ve regained telemetry now? Then Alec goes into the spiel about the power going out and staying out. Err, we’ve been generating power on the FTL drive for over 600 years, why isn’t getting power back up and going to FTL for a while put forward as a solution? We’re not told how long reverses will last, so I guess that means they’ll last a while, right? Then Alec says it’s up to him to find an alternative if this planet is a bust, how will that be done Alec if ark is adrift? Then Captain Dunsail says we need teams to repair the sensors ASAP, that we’re “blind out here” but SAM just said moments ago the energy field was dampening our sensors - huh? So what is it, are the sensors out or not? See how it all this comes across in such an unadulterated mess, and that it makes people ask the wrong type of questions? That is one of the biggest faults of Andromeda, on top of the quest mechanics and interfaces that are almost identical to Dragon Age Inquisition, no advancement in nearly 3 years of the release to that game, that’s another beef I know folk have, you still spend ages going from point a to point b, to drop something off, then point c to speak to someone and then start a new task somewhere else. It gives the illusion the game is big with a lot to do, but the reality is far from the case. Measure how much time you burn just on travel form one quest giver to another, it adds up! Maybe they didn’t have time to come up with a lot of new stuff, indeed as I’ve said before, the lack of time may explain it, but can never be used to excuse it. (Let's not even get into how "samey" the planets all are, and how next to nothing on them changes.) There are some elements and starting points of a potentially very good game in there, bits come to the surface every now and then as well. Overall though it fails, fails to innovate, inspire, excite or even move onwards in the ME universe. If you turn most of your brain off and stick most of your ME knowledge out the airlock beforehand, yeah you can get some deal of enjoyment out of it. That isn’t why I buy ME games though, save that for the likes of Call of Duty when we want some brainless shooter fun, Mass Effect needs to be more cerebral, the overall bad writing in this title ruins that aspect.
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 13:17:55 GMT
Another game where humanz save everyone If you go down that road, it's not even humans, it's anglosaxons.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jul 9, 2017 13:30:47 GMT
Sorry to interrupt, but what was that they removed from Thessia? Content? Never heard of it. As already been mentioned, the player would have the choice to choose A/K or liara to save. Another thing is that the Citadel coup was suppose to happen after Thessia. https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1wyz7e/some_interesting_facts_about_me3s_development/ Damn, that makes a lot more sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 13:33:05 GMT
Again, I want to stress that I do love the game. I truly do. But I am still capable of seeing where it falters and knowing, because of that, what I really want for the next MEA. I am also still capable of loving this game when I play it. But I think it's important to note that I think that the reason people are craving DLC so much is because the story was not as fulfilling and satisfying. If it was the sort of revelation we had with ME1 with all those new fresh races, it would not be this give me DLC thing. It would be 'let's talk about the krogan, the salarians, the geth, the quarians, the asari, the turians, etc.' It would be OMG sentient ancient machine race! Genocidal sentient ancient machine race! It would be conversations about this vast world that offered so much to discuss. Okay, part of that is because it would be all brand new. But this is part of my point. We jumped a galaxy and we aren't really having these discussions because they left us with not really much to discuss at all. So now we clamor for DLC.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2017 13:33:31 GMT
If you consider ME:A as a lighthearted adventure about a bunch of young explorers, then the writing fits. If you want a drama, then there are other games. Though, the Archon somehow reminds me about an old children's TV show, Teletubbies. Probably, it's the halo. Couldn't have put it better because for me that's what MEA was
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Post by OdanUrr on Jul 9, 2017 13:38:30 GMT
...God there is actualy more I could unpack in this post then I originally gave it credit for. 1. I actually agree with you that the Archon wasn't a very good villain, I intend on unpacking that in a future thread.... But as far as the but moment is concerned well first off and worked much better this time then the last time BioWare pulled something like this. IE the ME 2 scene. And that is one of the reasons why I excuse it. The Rule of Cool sometimes works out, and sometimes it does not. All depends on that ever mysterious execution. But suffice it to say if BioWare spent a long time dwelling on the Archon's movements and plans before the scene where he is standing in SAM node for God sake it would have ruined the surprise. And the Archon figuring out where Hyperion was to steal it makes sense. As for the 'why he didn't destroy the Nexus'...we can't be ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE unless BioWare reveals it in future DLC, or a book or blog post or something but the mere fact he didn't destroy the Nexus, and got onto Hyperion without raising alarms, points to an answer. He likely snuck on with a very small strike team and then hijacked Hyperion. Sure, I see your next argument that he had the fleet to destroy the Nexus so why didn't he...answer he made the same mistake as Corypheus and kind of for the same reason. It was conistant with his character because he viewed the Nexus/ Hyperion not as the end, but the means to an end. Remember his end game was to conquer/ exalt Heleus by threatening them with the power of Meridian. Had he wasted his time in a battle on, what he thought, was an insignifcant space station he would be...well wasting time. 2. I think the next point actually points to another systemic weakness in recent BioWare titles from a story standpoint. Not that I blame them because people would probably bitch at them for being too reptitive. But...forgive the rather gross metaphor...but BioWare has a habbit of blowing their story load in one shot...and then afraid to repeat it...again for fear of pissing off their fans. So lets put it this way. In Here Lies the Abyss from Dragon Age Inquisition you, as the Inquisitor, lead an assault on the Grey Wardens, and then you get sucked into the Fade because of the mark. And that was...it...for the Fade. BioWare was afraid, I think, to repeat this. Because had I been writing Doom Upon the World AKA the ending....or the end of What Pride Had Wrought...I would have had Corypheus tear down the Veil and enter the Fade phsysically, forcing the Inquisitor to enter the Fade after him. Cory, being one step away from his ultimate ambition, the Inquisitor having to fight through waves of demons, and had I been writing it I would have had Corypheus die literally on the gates of the Black City. Not in some contrived boss battle with a cliched dragon fight...but an actual ramping up of the dramatic tension. But no, sadly, we pretty much get only one Fade scene per game... And like in Mass Effect you already made the choice, BioWare was afraid of having it repeated, especially since all outposts after Eos are A. optional and B. BioWare did not go deep into the system as FO 4 did (thank God). And that Khi Tessara but moment: You find out that Meridian has moved and you have to find it again. 1. I agree that elaborating too much on the Archon's forces sneaking into Hyperion would spoil the surprise but you can still explain it after the fact. Have Ryder contact the Nexus and have a chat with the Initiative's leadership. I just felt it was too convenient and I would've rather preferred if the Archon had built an AI of his own (the Kett steal everything, surely they've already stolen this knowledge?) or maybe stolen an ancient Angara AI, like the one we find during one of our quests. There is precedent for this last bit as the Kett were digging around in Voeld for that AI. They could've easily been combing other planets after an AI. 2. Yeah, the final fight with Corypheus in DA:I was a letdown. I'd have rather played your version of that fight.
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zaeedisking
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Post by zaeedisking on Jul 9, 2017 13:52:44 GMT
Kind of an odd thing that the first ME delivered so much of what Andromeda should have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 13:54:58 GMT
I enjoyed MEA but honestly it was the first BioWare game that made me repeatedly cringe due to the bad dialogue. The quality was very hit and miss. As for the plot is was a case of been there, done that. I hoped for better tbh.
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 14:00:03 GMT
As for the plot is was a case of been there, done that. I hoped for better tbh. I didn't expect anything from the plot. Video game plots are never Pulitzer material.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2017 14:02:20 GMT
In your OP you praise the structure of the writing, and the narrative devices used.
If you were praising the actual dialogue - ya know, the actual device that tells most of the story in-game - I would never stop laughing. I have heard enough of the in-game dialogue to know it is both poorly written and acted.
However, praising the structure... It is very academic of you. Not having played the game at all, I cannot argue with that stance. So... Misleading title is misleading (and a grand claim not supported by the majority(the majority is not here, this is an unofficial forum of a gaming company that shut down their official forum, and you barely have a majority here if you even do))
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Post by LilTIM on Jul 9, 2017 14:11:35 GMT
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Post by SofNascimento on Jul 9, 2017 14:30:43 GMT
Retcons are the foundation in which Andromeda was built.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 14:44:08 GMT
They made it up as they went with MET too, and it showed.
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 14:55:05 GMT
They made it up as they went with MET too, and it showed. Yeah, it showed. But not where it really mattered. The companions throughout the whole trilogy were up to scratch and there were interesting moments in all of the games. In the trilogy I spent more time interacting with my crew than I spent fighting. In MEA it was the other way round to escape the boredom. It's blatantly obvious since I played other Bioware games after I played MEA. I touched DA2 for the first time and was astonished that story, characters and dialogues were so much better than what MEA delivered. MEA is a bland shooter with some character interactions. It offers next to nothing in terms of character development, cringeworthy dialogue at times and a forgettable cast. As for suspending disbelief, this game makes it so much harder. You're supposed to be the only hope for humanity and yet you stumble over humans and other Milky Way species already being well established on three planets. That can only be described as WTF. The Nexus doesn't really need me, they just have to follow their insurgents to keep alive. If you want to believe that they actually braved radiation, poisoned water and heat. Which is another big WTF moment. No, this isn't well written. This just is. It's mildly amusing to shoot your way through but in terms of story, this is one of the weakest plots of any so called RPGs.
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Post by dreman999 on Jul 9, 2017 14:56:45 GMT
Well, you'd probably disagree with my analysis then. Several of the But moments you mention felt forced or convenient, like having to choose between the Salarian and the Krogan (when you have plenty more people aboard the Tempest you could use) or how the Archon (somehow) manages to capture Ark Hyperion but wastes the opportunity to destroy the Nexus (and thus the Initiative's leadership). It reminded me of when Cerberus decided to attack the Citadel in ME3 because reasons. The Archon never was, to my mind, a compelling enough villain for me to feel invested in that particular storyline (he wants to destroy everything because... that's what villains do I guess). Funny thing about the outposts. I thought I'd be able to shape different outposts according to different needs. Instead I was tied to that one choice I made at the beginning. Why? dude. No you could not use them to save the other team. They would have fight there way through an entire ship to be there added they need their own Sam to work on there own. So no it was not forced.
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Post by zaeedisking on Jul 9, 2017 14:56:50 GMT
They made it up as they went with MET too, and it showed. ...
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Post by dreman999 on Jul 9, 2017 14:57:57 GMT
I knew when I came home from the bar that other thread would be locked, LOL. You're only talking abot plot structure here; while the main quest narrative got some heat, a sizable amount of the negative criticism on MEA focuses on the dialogue and scene writing. (and when I criticize the writing, that's mostly what I'm talking about). Plus if the writing was actually "good" there wouldn't be any need for threads like this (which I haven't seen the likes of since the ME3 ending) to tell us that is it good. You can see the clumsiness of it literately in the first few minutes. The whole stuff about the scourge and the scanners working/not working changes/contradicts so much line to line it's almost bi-polar. That isn't good writing, it smacks of a first draft and then nobody looking at it again to check it out. (Much like how the rest of the game ended up, due to how much time they wasted in making it/deciding how to make it.) this is the fan base that in majority like the writing in me2...so no.
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Post by malgus on Jul 9, 2017 15:03:33 GMT
You are aware these threads are not perfect and can be argued against? ITs not because someone wrote them that suddenly nobody can disagreed with them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 15:16:44 GMT
They made it up as they went with MET too, and it showed. Yeah, it showed. But not where it really mattered. The companions throughout the whole trilogy were up to scratch and there were interesting moments in all of the games. In the trilogy I spent more time interacting with my crew than I spent fighting. In MEA it was the other way round to escape the boredom. It's blatantly obvious since I played other Bioware games after I played MEA. I touched DA2 for the first time and was astonished that story, characters and dialogues were so much better than what MEA delivered. MEA is a bland shooter with some character interactions. It offers next to nothing in terms of character development, cringeworthy dialogue at times and a forgettable cast. As for suspending disbelief, this game makes it so much harder. You're supposed to be the only hope for humanity and yet you stumble over humans and other Milky Way species already being well established on three planets. That can only be described as WTF. The Nexus doesn't really need me, they just have to follow their insurgents to keep alive. If you want to believe that they actually braved radiation, poisoned water and heat. Which is another big WTF moment. No, this isn't well written. This just is. It's mildly amusing to shoot your way through but in terms of story, this is one of the weakest plots of any so called RPGs. I think it mattered some. It looked to me like they ran out of ideas starting with ME2. Speaking of companions, I remember fans saying that all those squadmates from ME2 were going to come back and be squadmates again in ME3. They argued, why would Bioware create all these characters just to sideline them in ME3? Ask Bioware, LOL.
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 15:24:38 GMT
I think it mattered some. It looked to me like they ran out of ideas starting with ME2. Speaking of companions, I remember fans saying that all those squadmates from ME2 were going to come back and be squadmates again in ME3. They argued, why would Bioware create all these characters just to sideline them in ME3? Ask Bioware, LOL. They did come back one way or the other. As far as ME3 is concerned I had my initial problems with James. I never read to comics or books, so I didn't even know who that character's supposed to be. But looking back, he's so much better than anything MEA had to offer. Even without knowing WTF this guy was.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2017 15:47:27 GMT
It's clearly mentioned that that choice will shape the things to come. And? Does that invalidate the argument in the quote? I must have missed where I said it did. Because I didn't.
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 16:21:11 GMT
I must have missed where I said it did. Because I didn't. Then your commentary is entirely redundant, since there was a point tied to not having the option of creating different outposts.
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jaegerbane
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
JaegerBane
JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 9, 2017 16:30:11 GMT
It's blatantly obvious since I played other Bioware games after I played MEA. I touched DA2 for the first time and was astonished that story, characters and dialogues were so much better than what MEA delivered. MEA is a bland shooter with some character interactions. It offers next to nothing in terms of character development, cringeworthy dialogue at times and a forgettable cast. While MEA slipped up quite a bit, this is some rather spectacular revisionism regarding DA2. DA2 was a game that did such a bad job of introducing characters and developing relationships that the main character loses his/her sibling before the player even knows who they are. The entire third act is people mutating into giant monsters and exploding with no explanation of wtf is going on and the less said about Sebastien and Anders, the better. At one point Hawke has to deal with the fact that a lunatic has decapitated his mother, sewed her head onto another corpse and reanimated the morbid thing, and his reaction is basically to shrug his shoulders. Don't get me wrong, DA2 wasn't a bad game but I'm struggling to understand how someone could genuinely point at this and say it was so much better than MEA. That's getting back into the whole 'MEA is a 4/10 game!' farce.
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abaris
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abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 16:32:51 GMT
While MEA slipped up quite a bit, this is some rather spectacular revisionism regarding DA2. DA2 was a game that did such a bad job of introducing characters and developing relationships that the main character loses his/her sibling before the player even knows who they are. Have you played it after MEA? I'm sorry, but it's my impression that both jobs aren't on par. DA2 is the much better game in terms of storytelling and companions. I never played the game before, but after noticing that it went over the table for a tenner, I decided on giving it a chance.
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