Estaq99
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 65 Likes: 104
inherit
1387
0
104
Estaq99
65
Sept 1, 2016 18:12:28 GMT
September 2016
estaq99
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Estaq99 on Jul 9, 2017 21:02:20 GMT
Then perhaps you need it to play it again - Orsino, Meredith, countless mages in the streets do literally that in the third act. It's never even explained what the hell Orsino was trying to accomplish. As for Ryder's reaction - I guess a lot of that is down to opinion. Personally I thought it was pretty good, but the point was more that there's actually a set of conversations around it and Ryder repeatedly references it throughout the game (indeed, there's a whole quest around it). Hawke essentially forgets it and never references it again, despite the fact that at best, it should have traumatised him. Ironically both the DA and ME franchises have repeatedly shown they can do this really well - DA2 is the odd one out here. It's perfectly okay for Ryder to not be very emotional about the death since the game has established that he wasn't a great/present father and a big understory to the family quest is Ryder learning that he actually gave a shit about his kids. I don't remember DA2 well enough to comment on that... in fact I have forgotten everything and my replay (now with a big spoiler, lol) will be like playing a totally new game. Sorry for the spoiler.... ...I don't like MP either.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Jul 9, 2017 21:05:07 GMT
That's why I modded that scene. How? I modded that game to hell, but I didn't see any endgame mod on the nexus.
|
|
warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 717 Likes: 1,021
inherit
5264
0
Jun 26, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
1,021
warrior
I don't like MP!
717
Mar 20, 2017 22:14:03 GMT
March 2017
warrior
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by warrior on Jul 9, 2017 21:06:03 GMT
It's perfectly okay for Ryder to not be very emotional about the death since the game has established that he wasn't a great/present father and a big understory to the family quest is Ryder learning that he actually gave a shit about his kids. I don't remember DA2 well enough to comment on that... in fact I have forgotten everything and my replay (now with a big spoiler, lol) will be like playing a totally new game. Sorry for the spoiler.... ...I don't like MP either. lol it's okay, it's an old game and this is the BioWare forum.
|
|
inherit
5045
0
Feb 27, 2019 21:49:30 GMT
1,574
suikoden
1,692
March 2017
suikoden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by suikoden on Jul 9, 2017 21:11:38 GMT
Hell I've given that exact look on.my.job probably half a dozen times. After mentioning that your father just died? Happens all the time!
|
|
inherit
The Pathfinder
638
0
Sept 22, 2017 23:01:09 GMT
9,422
Serza
Rendering planets viable since 2017
6,301
August 2016
serza
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
13152
|
Post by Serza on Jul 9, 2017 21:17:34 GMT
Thousand yard stare?
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:51:36 GMT
36,922
colfoley
19,135
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jul 9, 2017 21:21:30 GMT
Hey thanks everyone for the (mostly) constructive conversation.
|
|
warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 717 Likes: 1,021
inherit
5264
0
Jun 26, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
1,021
warrior
I don't like MP!
717
Mar 20, 2017 22:14:03 GMT
March 2017
warrior
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by warrior on Jul 9, 2017 21:29:13 GMT
After mentioning that your father just died? Happens all the time! you're back! did you get some sleep bb? ready for another day in the mines?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
8891
0
Nov 26, 2024 23:31:01 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 23:31:01 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 21:33:49 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want.
|
|
inherit
5045
0
Feb 27, 2019 21:49:30 GMT
1,574
suikoden
1,692
March 2017
suikoden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by suikoden on Jul 9, 2017 21:37:42 GMT
you're back! did you get some sleep bb? ready for another day in the mines?
|
|
inherit
Ohm's Law Compels You
207
0
19,211
Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
5,762
August 2016
quigonglenn
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
qui_gon_glenn
2108
|
Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2017 21:43:55 GMT
Funny thing is, I own several gamepads and have used my PS3 controller on my PC as well... I have niece and nephew who like to play Star Wars Legos, and I have them all on PC (and PS3 lol) so that isn't my issue.
Also, somebody mentioned slick linoleum and what they look for in a video game. I play RPGs, they do not necessarily need slick video fidelity or incredible gameplay, because the experience is supposed to be story driven.
Example: Ultima IV, Ultima VII, KotOR, Mass Effect 1, many others. Apparently PoE goes in this vein as well.
I enjoyed Mass Effect, to an extent, for it drawing me out of that smaller world into the twitchy land of shooty shoot. However, I still want to play an RPG when it is said and done, and that's why ME2 was a perfect disappointment, why DA2 is better than people say it is, and why DAI has such strong feelings on both sides.
I bought DAI because it was built on PC, designed for PC. Lol.
|
|
Estaq99
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 65 Likes: 104
inherit
1387
0
104
Estaq99
65
Sept 1, 2016 18:12:28 GMT
September 2016
estaq99
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Estaq99 on Jul 9, 2017 21:47:44 GMT
That's why I modded that scene. How? I modded that game to hell, but I didn't see any endgame mod on the nexus. It's called Skip the Harvester by sapphim www.nexusmods.com/dragonage2/mods/3986/?If Hawke sides with the mages, Orsino will no longer turn into a harvester halfway through a pitifully easy fight against the templars. The cutscene with Orsino is truncated before he brings up blood magic. He and the other mages in the room will remain in place while Hawke & co. fight their way out of the building. XP is still acquired for the boss you no longer have to fight and the journal updates as usual. A new chest spawns by the exit after the skipped fight containing the ring and staff you would normally get as loot. If Hawke sides with the templars, the game skips over the gross transformation cutscene but the rest of the fight proceeds as normal.
|
|
inherit
Ohm's Law Compels You
207
0
19,211
Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
5,762
August 2016
quigonglenn
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
qui_gon_glenn
2108
|
Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2017 21:58:18 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. I beg to differ. I appreciate the work colfoley did on the OP, I appreciate his take on the nuts and bolts of the narrative, and while I ultimately disagree with him as to the net results of the narrative, I appreciate his point. Don't make the drama more important than the conversation. I for one have been guilty of that a great deal, and of course everyone takes me with a heaping helping of salt (or have me blocked lol), but it would be nice if we could get past the constant finger pointing. Pointing out others as haters, and making that a negative, is the same as being a hater. Just because you put on a white cloak and ride a white horse does not make you a white knight
|
|
inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Jul 9, 2017 22:05:54 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. Pointing out others as haters, and making that a negative, is the same as being a hater. Just because you put on a white cloak and ride a white horse does not make you a white knight
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:51:36 GMT
36,922
colfoley
19,135
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jul 9, 2017 22:05:59 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. I beg to differ. I appreciate the work colfoley did on the OP, I appreciate his take on the nuts and bolts of the narrative, and while I ultimately disagree with him as to the net results of the narrative, I appreciate his point. Don't make the drama more important than the conversation. I for one have been guilty of that a great deal, and of course everyone takes me with a heaping helping of salt (or have me blocked lol), but it would be nice if we could get past the constant finger pointing. Pointing out others as haters, and making that a negative, is the same as being a hater. Just because you put on a white cloak and ride a white horse does not make you a white knight usually it just makes you Jamie Lannister.
|
|
Estaq99
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 65 Likes: 104
inherit
1387
0
104
Estaq99
65
Sept 1, 2016 18:12:28 GMT
September 2016
estaq99
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Estaq99 on Jul 9, 2017 22:29:42 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. You have a very reductive way to see the world. Either black or white; love it or hate it. That's probably the reason your posts on several different threads always come as so full of anger. There are many people who either enjoyed or disliked MEA to some degree, without losing their mind to the point that any critical comment or opinion about the game that differ from theirs, will result in "You are a hater!!!" meltdown. It seems to me that a well constructed point of view about an aspect of the game, as important and controversial as the writing, is always welcome. Not everyone must agree on it. It invites to a civilized discussion.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,097
smilesja
14,567
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jul 9, 2017 22:35:34 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. You have a very reductive way to see the world. Either black or white; love it or hate it. That's probably the reason your posts on several different threads always come as so full of anger. There are many people who either enjoyed or disliked MEA to some degree, without losing their mind to the point that any critical comment or opinion about the game that differ from theirs, will result in "You are a hater!!!" meltdown. It seems to me that a well constructed point of view about an aspect of the game, as important and controversial as the writing, is always welcome. Not everyone must agree on it. It invites to a civilized discussion. Blah it's not like the other side is much different
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:51:36 GMT
36,922
colfoley
19,135
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jul 9, 2017 22:39:10 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. You have a very reductive way to see the world. Either black or white; love it or hate it. That's probably the reason your posts on several different threads always come as so full of anger. There are many people who either enjoyed or disliked MEA to some degree, without losing their mind to the point that any critical comment or opinion about the game that differ from theirs, will result in "You are a hater!!!" meltdown. It seems to me that a well constructed point of view about an aspect of the game, as important and controversial as the writing, is always welcome. Not everyone must agree on it. It invites to a civilized discussion. well said. Thank you.
|
|
Estaq99
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 65 Likes: 104
inherit
1387
0
104
Estaq99
65
Sept 1, 2016 18:12:28 GMT
September 2016
estaq99
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Estaq99 on Jul 9, 2017 22:43:41 GMT
You have a very reductive way to see the world. Either black or white; love it or hate it. That's probably the reason your posts on several different threads always come as so full of anger. There are many people who either enjoyed or disliked MEA to some degree, without losing their mind to the point that any critical comment or opinion about the game that differ from theirs, will result in "You are a hater!!!" meltdown. It seems to me that a well constructed point of view about an aspect of the game, as important and controversial as the writing, is always welcome. Not everyone must agree on it. It invites to a civilized discussion. Blah it's not like the other side is much different How very mature of you. LOL You see, there is not such a thing as "the other side". It's all in your mind. At it best, is your simplified way to organize the world around you.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,177
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,177
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,940
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 9, 2017 23:25:20 GMT
The OP is an awful lot of work that no one complaining about the game will care about in the slightest because they just hate anything that isn't exactly what they want. I beg to differ. I appreciate the work colfoley did on the OP, I appreciate his take on the nuts and bolts of the narrative, and while I ultimately disagree with him as to the net results of the narrative, I appreciate his point. Don't make the drama more important than the conversation. I for one have been guilty of that a great deal, and of course everyone takes me with a heaping helping of salt (or have me blocked lol), but it would be nice if we could get past the constant finger pointing. Pointing out others as haters, and making that a negative, is the same as being a hater. Just because you put on a white cloak and ride a white horse does not make you a white knight Sorry but that is not true. Sure some people like Majestic Jazz has offered constructive criticisms that are worthy of discussion, but others are haters, pure and simple and they need to be called out as haters. People like dutch and suikoden have offered NOTHING but 100% hatred for ME:A and it's fans that like or love it. Suikoden for example has said nothing but "ME:A is trash, I hate it, Anybody who likes it is a moron," and when he's called out on his bullshit he pulls the good old victim card because that he can do since he can't back up his own opinions without youtube videos and articles written by people smarter than he is. He has offered NO constructive criticism for the game and has been on record that he hasn't even played the game (or he's just played a couple hours) and watched the rest of it on youtube and/or twitch. He has also shown absolutely NO, NONE, ZERO, respect for other people opinions, and frankly I have lost any and all respect for him and his worthless POS opinions. I would block him but he's not worth it. Like I said before in this thread, IMHO he's just another worthless angry hardcore gamer troll, who hates that people have found joy in a game that he hates, and it's because of people like him and dutch that makes gaming culture look bad.
|
|
inherit
Ohm's Law Compels You
207
0
19,211
Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
5,762
August 2016
quigonglenn
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
qui_gon_glenn
2108
|
Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2017 23:37:10 GMT
^^^ so you agree with me?
Besides the person I quoted, I don't believe I was naming anyone specifically, except for myself.
Certainly, the level of vitriol amongst some members is higher than others. Specifically you name Dutch, and IIRC Dutch has actually played the whole game. I don't know, don't care really, but he sure does get singled out by the pro-Andromeda crowd.
Suko - well, he bought the game, his opinion is as valid as yours, whether you like it or not. We are talking about opinions here, validity is scarce.
What I find amazing is that after all this time, so little tolerance for opposing views has been made. This forum is black or white, and while that's a cool story and all, life doesn't work like that.
|
|
Melcara
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 241 Likes: 399
inherit
6862
0
Sept 15, 2018 15:37:27 GMT
399
Melcara
241
April 2017
melcara
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Melcara on Jul 10, 2017 0:09:55 GMT
I beg to differ. I appreciate the work colfoley did on the OP, I appreciate his take on the nuts and bolts of the narrative, and while I ultimately disagree with him as to the net results of the narrative, I appreciate his point. Don't make the drama more important than the conversation. I for one have been guilty of that a great deal, and of course everyone takes me with a heaping helping of salt (or have me blocked lol), but it would be nice if we could get past the constant finger pointing. Pointing out others as haters, and making that a negative, is the same as being a hater. Just because you put on a white cloak and ride a white horse does not make you a white knight Sorry but that is not true. Sure some people like Majestic Jazz has offered constructive criticisms that are worthy of discussion, but others are haters, pure and simple and they need to be called out as haters. People like dutch and suikoden have offered NOTHING but 100% hatred for ME:A and it's fans that like or love it. Suikoden for example has said nothing but "ME:A is trash, I hate it, Anybody who likes it is a moron," and when he's called out on his bullshit he pulls the good old victim card because that he can do since he can't back up his own opinions without youtube videos and articles written by people smarter than he is. He has offered NO constructive criticism for the game and has been on record that he hasn't even played the game (or he's just played a couple hours) and watched the rest of it on youtube and/or twitch. He has also shown absolutely NO, NONE, ZERO, respect for other people opinions, and frankly I have lost any and all respect for him and his worthless POS opinions. I would block him but he's not worth it. Like I said before in this thread, IMHO he's just another worthless angry hardcore gamer troll, who hates that people have found joy in a game that he hates, and it's because of people like him and dutch that makes gaming culture look bad. ...Did you just like your own post? Lol.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:51:36 GMT
36,922
colfoley
19,135
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jul 10, 2017 0:29:04 GMT
The issue is the fandom is so enflamed...and pretty much always enflamed actually...that sometimes a simple disagreement is taken way out of context because it is easy to throw people in with other people instead of trying to deal with individual behavior. I am actually really thrilled at this thread though because it looks like I have reached some common ground with a few people I was thinking of borderline trolls. (Though Qui gon your line about laughing if I defended the dialogue was a bit of a low blow).
Obviously there is some trolling going on. But ultimatley what trolls want, true trolls, is chaos, disagreements, and tension. My philosophy is lets not give them such.
|
|
kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 4,060
inherit
184
0
Nov 25, 2024 17:44:02 GMT
4,060
kino
The path up and down are one and the same.
2,067
August 2016
kino
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
kinom001
|
Post by kino on Jul 10, 2017 0:54:52 GMT
OK so I have discussed the narrative strengths of MEA before, but recently...thanks to a user comment on the weaknesses of MEA... I remembered that I have not talked about some other things MEA did well. And since this is one of my favorite concepts of writing, and since I was intending to talk about it, and don't think I have, here we go. Now in fiction there is this concept, I call it narrative reversals, but Maurice Suckling in her book on game design called it reverals/ and revelations. Revelations are of course when characters discover something about the world, the plot, or another character. These are usually plot twists that cause both the audience (and sometimes the characters involved) to go *gasp*. Probably the most classic revelation is the "Luke I am your Father" line from the Empire Strikes Back. And while Andromeda does have a few good plot twists I wanna focus on the first half..... Reversals are concepts which usually heighten the tension in a story world. They are the 'but moment'. The obstacle that the main character has to overcome before being able to move on with their life and claim ultimate victory. Or die. These turn boring old smooth running stories with dull characters into truly tense moments where the character has to rally or work their way through a problem. The difference between a smooth trip to the grocery store and one frought with danger and struggle. It is these Andromeda does really, really well. And maybe its only because BioWare hasn't always been good at this that it caught my attention so much in Andromeda, after all the only game that BioWare has done to this point with a good "BUT" then climax in their games has been the original Mass Effect. They have struggled in almost every game. In Dragon Age Inquisition the but moment felt almost like an and moment (a smooth transition). When you start Doom Upon the World you find out, that out of nowhere, Corypheus has torn open the veil and because of his frustration and defeats he would rather spite the world and see it burn rather than continue with is goal of ruling it. The Inquisitor sees this, rallies what forces they can, and goes to stop Corypheus. Sure, this is tense, in its own way, but Corypheus is operating out of desperation...not strength. In Mass Effect 3 we got a tremendous moment of a narrative reversal. We get to Cronus station, find out that the Citadel is the Catlyst, BUT the Reapers also know and have moved it to Earth forcing us into one final show down. And the the ending did not capitilize on this and sort of fell apart at the end. I mean the Extended Cut got the ending back to playable...but it still has its issues. In Mass Effect 2 we get another good BUT moment. Shepard goes off to do a mission taking the whole squad, which he has never done before, a mission that we never get to play, BUT the Collectors show up and abduct the crew. Its a good moment, but I hope the issues with it are apparent from the way I structured that sentence up there. Still, the payoff for that shaky but moment leads to still perhaps the finest video game ending ever...so... Which finally leads us to Mass Effect 3. Its Main plot has plenty of But moments. On Eos: We activate the Vault BUT THEN the purification field activates which threatens to wipe you out and kill you. This then leads to you establising your first outpost, and because of the stakes, it felt earned, and I cheered. In the Kett Base: We find out that the Angarra are actually the Kett so killing them you are kind of killing an Angarra...and... You get to the end and discover what the facility is for, you get the option to destroy it or not, BUT if you do destroy it then all the Angarra in the facility will be killed. On the Archon's Ship: We board the Arcon's ship in an attempt to save the Salarian Arc and deal with the Kett BUT the Kett flagship has its guns trained on the Salarians. We then find the location where the Archon keeps his possessions, including the location of Meridian, BUT he captures us and learns our secrets. We then come up with a plan to deal with the guns BUT we discover that Krogan have been captured on the ship, they could be exalted at any time, and we only have time to save them or a Salarian strike team which boarded the arc. On Khi Tessara: ...I actually do not think there is a but moment in this quest...interesting. If I think of one later I'll add it. On Meridian We finally know where Meridian is located, what it is, BUT the Archon has captured Ark Hyperion, your sibling and is taking all of it in a giant fleet that you have to rally the forces you have gathered to stop it. Anyways in each main quest, or pretty much each major quests, there is one, and sometimes multiple but moments which raise the stakes and gives a problem for the protagonist(s) to solve. And these often lead to problems which, depending on which actions you take, could lead to the death of many people throughout the game. The second thing Andromeda is good at is something I like to call Narrative Cohesion. Andromeda has a tight narrative that constantly changes and builds on one another. Each quest we constantly learn new information which is then paid off later in the game, especially in the climax of the main story. Doing the same examination we gave the Main Quest in the but chart.... On Eos: We learned how to activate the Vaults, we also learn about the purification field and that there is a special vault on Aya. We also decide what form our outposts will take, more militaristic, or scientific. On Voeled: We learn about the Angarra's connection to the Kett. What the facilities are for, we get emotional context for our struggle against the Kett. And in a seperate quest we also learn that there are internal struggles within the Kett's heirarchy and the Archon may not exactly be popular. On Aya: We learn about Meridian and who might have knowledge of its location. On the Archon's Ship: The Archon learns 'what makes Ryder special', abut SAM, and Ryder's sibling. We also get a glmpse into the Archon's motivations. And we also learn that the Krogan are close to being exalted. On Khi Tessara: We learn about the connection between the Angarra and the Remnant, and some information on what happend with the Scourage. We also learn what Meridian is, and eventually, its final location. On Meridian: The Archon uses what he's learned to enact his final plan to achieve his character motivations and we use what we have learned throughout the game about the Remnant and ourselves, plus all the hard work we've done (if we've done it) to stop him. Rallying the forces of the cluster. In this way side quests effected side quests, side quests effected main quests, main quests effected side quests, and together it formed one cohesive Narrative. Maybe not the best BioWare has done, but still, good for a video game, and after some recent misteps a step in the right direction. I agree with all of the examples. I think the only thing missing from ME:A at times was a sense of urgency in some of the missions. I think the only that has a timer is one on Eos. That was a nice touch, though I don't think you'd want to bog down gameplay by having to many of those. Otherwise, from a storytelling pov, I was very pleased with the writing in this game. I think the dialog and writing fit the characters and the story's narrative really well.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:51:36 GMT
36,922
colfoley
19,135
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jul 10, 2017 0:58:44 GMT
OK so I have discussed the narrative strengths of MEA before, but recently...thanks to a user comment on the weaknesses of MEA... I remembered that I have not talked about some other things MEA did well. And since this is one of my favorite concepts of writing, and since I was intending to talk about it, and don't think I have, here we go. Now in fiction there is this concept, I call it narrative reversals, but Maurice Suckling in her book on game design called it reverals/ and revelations. Revelations are of course when characters discover something about the world, the plot, or another character. These are usually plot twists that cause both the audience (and sometimes the characters involved) to go *gasp*. Probably the most classic revelation is the "Luke I am your Father" line from the Empire Strikes Back. And while Andromeda does have a few good plot twists I wanna focus on the first half..... Reversals are concepts which usually heighten the tension in a story world. They are the 'but moment'. The obstacle that the main character has to overcome before being able to move on with their life and claim ultimate victory. Or die. These turn boring old smooth running stories with dull characters into truly tense moments where the character has to rally or work their way through a problem. The difference between a smooth trip to the grocery store and one frought with danger and struggle. It is these Andromeda does really, really well. And maybe its only because BioWare hasn't always been good at this that it caught my attention so much in Andromeda, after all the only game that BioWare has done to this point with a good "BUT" then climax in their games has been the original Mass Effect. They have struggled in almost every game. In Dragon Age Inquisition the but moment felt almost like an and moment (a smooth transition). When you start Doom Upon the World you find out, that out of nowhere, Corypheus has torn open the veil and because of his frustration and defeats he would rather spite the world and see it burn rather than continue with is goal of ruling it. The Inquisitor sees this, rallies what forces they can, and goes to stop Corypheus. Sure, this is tense, in its own way, but Corypheus is operating out of desperation...not strength. In Mass Effect 3 we got a tremendous moment of a narrative reversal. We get to Cronus station, find out that the Citadel is the Catlyst, BUT the Reapers also know and have moved it to Earth forcing us into one final show down. And the the ending did not capitilize on this and sort of fell apart at the end. I mean the Extended Cut got the ending back to playable...but it still has its issues. In Mass Effect 2 we get another good BUT moment. Shepard goes off to do a mission taking the whole squad, which he has never done before, a mission that we never get to play, BUT the Collectors show up and abduct the crew. Its a good moment, but I hope the issues with it are apparent from the way I structured that sentence up there. Still, the payoff for that shaky but moment leads to still perhaps the finest video game ending ever...so... Which finally leads us to Mass Effect 3. Its Main plot has plenty of But moments. On Eos: We activate the Vault BUT THEN the purification field activates which threatens to wipe you out and kill you. This then leads to you establising your first outpost, and because of the stakes, it felt earned, and I cheered. In the Kett Base: We find out that the Angarra are actually the Kett so killing them you are kind of killing an Angarra...and... You get to the end and discover what the facility is for, you get the option to destroy it or not, BUT if you do destroy it then all the Angarra in the facility will be killed. On the Archon's Ship: We board the Arcon's ship in an attempt to save the Salarian Arc and deal with the Kett BUT the Kett flagship has its guns trained on the Salarians. We then find the location where the Archon keeps his possessions, including the location of Meridian, BUT he captures us and learns our secrets. We then come up with a plan to deal with the guns BUT we discover that Krogan have been captured on the ship, they could be exalted at any time, and we only have time to save them or a Salarian strike team which boarded the arc. On Khi Tessara: ...I actually do not think there is a but moment in this quest...interesting. If I think of one later I'll add it. On Meridian We finally know where Meridian is located, what it is, BUT the Archon has captured Ark Hyperion, your sibling and is taking all of it in a giant fleet that you have to rally the forces you have gathered to stop it. Anyways in each main quest, or pretty much each major quests, there is one, and sometimes multiple but moments which raise the stakes and gives a problem for the protagonist(s) to solve. And these often lead to problems which, depending on which actions you take, could lead to the death of many people throughout the game. The second thing Andromeda is good at is something I like to call Narrative Cohesion. Andromeda has a tight narrative that constantly changes and builds on one another. Each quest we constantly learn new information which is then paid off later in the game, especially in the climax of the main story. Doing the same examination we gave the Main Quest in the but chart.... On Eos: We learned how to activate the Vaults, we also learn about the purification field and that there is a special vault on Aya. We also decide what form our outposts will take, more militaristic, or scientific. On Voeled: We learn about the Angarra's connection to the Kett. What the facilities are for, we get emotional context for our struggle against the Kett. And in a seperate quest we also learn that there are internal struggles within the Kett's heirarchy and the Archon may not exactly be popular. On Aya: We learn about Meridian and who might have knowledge of its location. On the Archon's Ship: The Archon learns 'what makes Ryder special', abut SAM, and Ryder's sibling. We also get a glmpse into the Archon's motivations. And we also learn that the Krogan are close to being exalted. On Khi Tessara: We learn about the connection between the Angarra and the Remnant, and some information on what happend with the Scourage. We also learn what Meridian is, and eventually, its final location. On Meridian: The Archon uses what he's learned to enact his final plan to achieve his character motivations and we use what we have learned throughout the game about the Remnant and ourselves, plus all the hard work we've done (if we've done it) to stop him. Rallying the forces of the cluster. In this way side quests effected side quests, side quests effected main quests, main quests effected side quests, and together it formed one cohesive Narrative. Maybe not the best BioWare has done, but still, good for a video game, and after some recent misteps a step in the right direction. I agree with all of the examples. I think the only thing missing from ME:A at times was a sense of urgency in some of the missions. I think the only that has a timer is one on Eos. That was a nice touch, though I don't think you'd want to bog down gameplay by having to many of those. Otherwise, from a storytelling pov, I was very pleased with the writing in this game. I think the dialog and writing fit the characters and the story's narrative really well. Problem is the 'open world' in this case, or the sheer amount of content you can do at pretty much any order. If most of the content had more urgency to it it would have ruined the games pacing. For instance, I think the main story in MEA is terrificly paced...but...many of the side missions and companion missions especially are horribly paced. The easiest example of this is Liam's. "Uh I gave Verrand Nexus access codes, and now she has been captured by Pirates" So, despite how the Nexus could VERY EASILY COME UNDER ATTACK AT ANY MINUTE, so the quest strongly implies, you can run about and...well not even do the quest at all if you want. Actually though speaking of MEA dialogue this whole thing did give one of my favorite lines uttered in the entire game, and both Tom Taylorson and Fryda Wolf nailed it "Why would you do that?"
|
|
kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 4,060
inherit
184
0
Nov 25, 2024 17:44:02 GMT
4,060
kino
The path up and down are one and the same.
2,067
August 2016
kino
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
kinom001
|
Post by kino on Jul 10, 2017 1:25:30 GMT
I agree with all of the examples. I think the only thing missing from ME:A at times was a sense of urgency in some of the missions. I think the only that has a timer is one on Eos. That was a nice touch, though I don't think you'd want to bog down gameplay by having to many of those. Otherwise, from a storytelling pov, I was very pleased with the writing in this game. I think the dialog and writing fit the characters and the story's narrative really well. Problem is the 'open world' in this case, or the sheer amount of content you can do at pretty much any order. If most of the content had more urgency to it it would have ruined the games pacing. For instance, I think the main story in MEA is terrificly paced...but...many of the side missions and companion missions especially are horribly paced. The easiest example of this is Liam's. "Uh I gave Verrand Nexus access codes, and now she has been captured by Pirates" So, despite how the Nexus could VERY EASILY COME UNDER ATTACK AT ANY MINUTE, so the quest strongly implies, you can run about and...well not even do the quest at all if you want. Actually though speaking of MEA dialogue this whole thing did give one of my favorite lines uttered in the entire game, and both Tom Taylorson and Fryda Wolf nailed it "Why would you do that?" That's typical of large open world-ish games. This "very important something!" has to be taken care of and then you run into three different side quests on the way there. It happens. As for character dialog, I was really impressed with it. None of the characters had dialog that didn't fit their characters age and I liked that. Makes the characters feel more real to the story.
|
|