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Post by colfoley on Jul 15, 2017 20:56:45 GMT
@upupawayredux call them out and tell them to behave or leave. fatherjerusalem People can post whatever they want where they want. If they post on reddit and their comment is considered inane by the rest of us it will be downvoted. Simple as that. As I said, you're upset that negative criticism is upvoted the same as positive criticism. I'll say it again, this subforum is an echo chamber. There's about 200 people browsing this place so it's expected that most of you will pump each other up. It's the same opinions floating around and around. You will be upset when you encounter the occasional counter-current. Many of you only want to read fawning comments and little else. r/masseffect has over 10x the number of users and it's easier to go from sub to sub. I expect to see a greater variety of opinions including many I passionately disagree with and a few ones downright offensive, cultish, and delusional. The former is always welcome, the latter is not. this place is hardly an echo chamber.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:00:00 GMT
@upupawayredux call them out and tell them to behave or leave. fatherjerusalem People can post whatever they want where they want. If they post on reddit and their comment is considered inane by the rest of us it will be downvoted. Simple as that. As I said, you're upset that negative criticism is upvoted the same as positive criticism. I'll say it again, this subforum is an echo chamber. There's about 200 people browsing this place so it's expected that most of you will pump each other up. It's the same opinions floating around and around. You will be upset when you encounter the occasional counter-current. Many of you only want to read fawning comments and little else. r/masseffect has over 10x the number of users and it's easier to go from sub to sub. I expect to see a greater variety of opinions including many I passionately disagree with and a few ones downright offensive, cultish, and delusional. The former is always welcome, the latter is not. To what point?... Others call them out, tell them to leave, and the level of "hate" on both sides of the fence just accelerates. There's a couple of posts above yours here... one of contrition and one suggesting that we should all take a step back to reflect. Both are pretty good, IMO... so no, I'm not going to tell anyone to leave.
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Post by Qolx on Jul 15, 2017 21:03:08 GMT
fatherjerusalem well, realistically I'm less likely to post here. I check to see if there are any DLC news since at least one of you has ME twitter accts on push and will post immediately if something new comes up. You can post to your heart's content, friend. I'm not here to change hearts or minds. I do thank you for appreciating my "powers" though. I guess you at least consider me the "senate."
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 15, 2017 21:06:30 GMT
People can post whatever they want where they want. If they post on reddit and their comment is considered inane by the rest of us it will be downvoted. Simple as that. As I said, you're upset that negative criticism is upvoted the same as positive criticism. The mechanism for voting is subject to brigading, which often means that a thoughtful comment will never be seen because it's buried because people start to pile on. That's why votes are hidden on many of the subreddits. I'd venture to guess that the people who like the game have far more varied overall opinions about the game than you seem to believe. The problem is four or five posters come in with the intent to stir things up and for some reason, try to force others to defend their reasoning for liking the game. I've got my issues with Andromeda but I'm not going to justify why I like it. I just do, and that's it. One guy last night demanded that I give him three problems with Andromeda or all my arguments were invalid. I can give him ten problems, but fuck that guy. I'm not at anyone's beck and call, and when there's an appropriate thread to discuss whatever issues I might have, I'll discuss it. Yeah, sure.
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Post by Qolx on Jul 15, 2017 21:21:39 GMT
Monica21 You're correct about point #1. Neutral and negative posts are still brigaded and it takes a while for those to rise up. Pro-ME:A posts are upvoted right away, thankfully. There's more variety in Andromeda threads than OT nostalgia threads. I'd imagine there's a great variety of opinions from people who like the game but what I have seen so far is those people coming to this thread to attack. And I agree with your point, you are not required to justify your personal preferences to random strangers. "Yeah, sure" Yep we have more content over there. You're welcome anytime.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 15, 2017 21:22:47 GMT
If all Bioware games are trashed, then please explain why that MEA is the ONLY Bioware game to ever have a low 70s average review score. By your logic, all other Bioware games should have been rated in the low 70s. Also, please explain why games like KOTOR, Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, and DAI all won a slew of GOTY awards while MEA probably wont even be in the GOTY conversation? Because the media "editorialists" were intently trashing the IP, based on the ME3 endings, long before ME:A was ever released... and they are the same people who were given the 10-hour preview play of the game... and the technical performance of the game during that preview was less than steller (Bioware's mistake). That the media have carried on and on and on over the top about it... and continue to do so... it on their heads. They set out to convince the public to agree with them that the game is trash and members of the public who have tried to "call" them on that behavior (BSN members here) have been ridiculed by that same media on Twitter. The media is set up is such a way that it sensationalizes for clicks and "force feeds" those videos on everyone (through the practice of having them automatically run after other more informational videos about the game). I can't tell you how many times I've had the video "Why Andromeda was such as disaster" start to run automatically after viewing a viewing about finding secret chests in a vault or other such informational item on the game. With that, no doubt, the makers of the "disaster" video get more coin because they get credited for more views. The state of the game reporting industry is abysmal, period. ... and why people here insist on defending those sorts of practices by the media (i.e copied sensationalism and force feeding of their tripe online), I'll never know. The media tried very hard to convince me to not buy this game. They've even tried very hard to convince I shouldn't like this game... even to the point of calling me "delusional" for liking this game. The bottom line here though is, despite all of that, I do like this game. I might have to do some digging but from what I remember, the professional media during the ME3 ending stuff was actually defending Bioware by saying it was artistic integrity or something like that, most notably IGN, and yet these same outlets gave MEA lower than normal review scores. There was a huge debate about this on the old BSN about how the media is bought out by EA which is why they can't see it from the gamer's perspective and instead defended Bioware in their approach to the ending. So I am not sure what you mean by "editorialists"
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 15, 2017 21:27:04 GMT
"Yeah, sure" Yep we have more content over there. You're welcome anytime. Thanks, but I've been there. I'm one of the people you were so happy about driving away. No thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:27:30 GMT
Because the media "editorialists" were intently trashing the IP, based on the ME3 endings, long before ME:A was ever released... and they are the same people who were given the 10-hour preview play of the game... and the technical performance of the game during that preview was less than steller (Bioware's mistake). That the media have carried on and on and on over the top about it... and continue to do so... it on their heads. They set out to convince the public to agree with them that the game is trash and members of the public who have tried to "call" them on that behavior (BSN members here) have been ridiculed by that same media on Twitter. The media is set up is such a way that it sensationalizes for clicks and "force feeds" those videos on everyone (through the practice of having them automatically run after other more informational videos about the game). I can't tell you how many times I've had the video "Why Andromeda was such as disaster" start to run automatically after viewing a viewing about finding secret chests in a vault or other such informational item on the game. With that, no doubt, the makers of the "disaster" video get more coin because they get credited for more views. The state of the game reporting industry is abysmal, period. ... and why people here insist on defending those sorts of practices by the media (i.e copied sensationalism and force feeding of their tripe online), I'll never know. The media tried very hard to convince me to not buy this game. They've even tried very hard to convince I shouldn't like this game... even to the point of calling me "delusional" for liking this game. The bottom line here though is, despite all of that, I do like this game. I might have to do some digging but from what I remember, the professional media during the ME3 ending stuff was actually defending Bioware by saying it was artistic integrity or something like that, most notably IGN, and yet these same outlets gave MEA lower than normal review scores. There was a huge debate about this on the old BSN about how the media is bought out by EA which is why they can't see it from the gamer's perspective and instead defended Bioware in their approach to the ending. So I am not sure what you mean by "editorialists" I'm not talking about when the endings first came out... I'm talking about how it carried forward into the "editorials" that came out in response to ME:A being announced... i.e. the reaction to the game moving to a different galaxy in general. If you want to learn the difference between a news report and an editorial... go back to a regular newspaper and have a read on the Editorial Page vs. the regular news stories that are reported. I continually see articles in the gaming media (all outlets) that are merely expressions of the opinions of the authors of the artilcles with phrases in them like 'You're gonna love this game." or "This game sucks." etc. That is not reporting; that is editorializing. The difference is my newspaper doesn't flip open to the Editorial page after every time I real a news article. The online media, however, does promote this. As I said, I can't count how many times I've seen videos proclaiming ME:A to be a "disaster" or had videos with exaggerated face memes pop open right after viewing another video on ME:A seeking, as I said, information on how to open a secret room within the game. This is a shoddy practice on the part of the media outlets in the gaming industry. Jason, posting my avatar to his Twitter account in order to mock me was also a shoddy practice for a "professional journalist." I don't care what his reputation was last year... he shot himself in the foot in these recent months with the stunts he's pulled. He's become part of the problem.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 15, 2017 21:29:24 GMT
Look I may get more hate for being honest, but I will say both sides are at fault! You have the haters who try and attack everyone who likes the game. That's how it was before the Jason incident. After the Jason incident, the people who like MEA have been targeting the haters in the same way the haters targeted them. No one wins this way and it's not even a fun debate anymore. Everyone is just hurting everyone, or stressing or upsetting someone and making the mods clean up the messes. I'll use myself as a example. I was all for bi Jaal, but when I had to deliver the bad news and accepted he was straight, I was attacked for it. I attacked back. Then I was called a homophobe. Had my username mocked. Had implications that I was delusional and wanted Jaal in real life. Was banned from a forum my ex friends made where they talk about him all the time and mock me sometimes. I took the abuse, then after things calmed down, I started to target them back for revenge. I was no better than them. No one won. The Jason thing happened and he posted my stuff here on his Twitter. I should have ignored it. I didn't. I dug around and found past stuff on him and we all mocked him and laughed at him the same way he laughed at us. Now suikoden is a popular troll, but even when he's not really doing any harm, people jump at him for supporting Jason's article. I was no better. I did it too. It was wrong. Two wrongs never make a right. I am not going to become what hurt and angered me again. I am not going to be a hypocrite anymore. Very true. I agree very much. I'm going to repeat what a wrote months ago: Having a difference of opinion does not mean that someone has to be wrong: people like different things. Some people like blood orange and others do not: this does not mean that either party has bad taste, just that they have different tastes. You don't like Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's fine. You hate Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's fine. I like Mass Effect: Andromeda. That's also fine. I love Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's also fine. We simply have different opinions and tastes in games. This isn't a war we need to wage: it's a video game. We may want different things and our feedback might reflect that but there's no reason to start insulting and attacking each other over this. We can have civil conversations and discussions. Direct our feedback at the developers, share and discuss it with other. There's nothing constructive or positive to be gained from making the forums hostile by putting each other down. This applies across the board both to people who feel negatively towards the game and people who feel positively towards the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:30:02 GMT
I might have to do some digging but from what I remember, the professional media during the ME3 ending stuff was actually defending Bioware by saying it was artistic integrity or something like that, most notably IGN, and yet these same outlets gave MEA lower than normal review scores. And therein lies the reality: The "journalists" who called out self-centered trolls who wanted the developers to die because a game wasn't exactly what those people wanted got the exact same abuse and threats from those trolls. So when the exact same trolls start hurling abuse and threats at BioWare again, those spineless hacks instead decided to sell their souls to those trolls.
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Post by Qolx on Jul 15, 2017 21:31:31 GMT
"Yeah, sure" Yep we have more content over there. You're welcome anytime. Thanks, but I've been there. I'm one of the people you were so happy about driving away. No thanks. Well, at least you are happier here. I'm glad you found what you were looking for. Cheers!
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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 15, 2017 21:35:43 GMT
I might have to do some digging but from what I remember, the professional media during the ME3 ending stuff was actually defending Bioware by saying it was artistic integrity or something like that, most notably IGN, and yet these same outlets gave MEA lower than normal review scores. There was a huge debate about this on the old BSN about how the media is bought out by EA which is why they can't see it from the gamer's perspective and instead defended Bioware in their approach to the ending. So I am not sure what you mean by "editorialists" I'm not talking about when the endings first came out... I'm talking about how it carried forward into the "editorials" that came out in response to ME:A being announced... i.e. the reaction to the game moving to a different galaxy in general. But that still brings me back to my point as to the media's approach to Bioware. I mean after ME3 you had people complaining saying that the media is biased for Bioware and that EA paid off the journalist who gave the game high review scores when they (disgruntled gamers) felt that it didn't deserve such a high score. I mean, remember this?: This was especially prevalent after Dragon Age 2 released and many gamers felt that the game got too high of a score from the media and presented claims that they are bought out by Bioware/EA. Now that the tables have turned and the media has seemingly taken a more scrutinizing approach to Bioware, now gamers from the other end are saying that the journalist is biased against Bioware. So which one is it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:48:16 GMT
How it is and how it will always be.
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Post by heathenoxman on Jul 15, 2017 21:58:34 GMT
I like the game. I do not love the game.
I can see its strengths as well as its weaknesses. I can tolerate opinions from both sides, but not when they are presented as objective facts. Also, some things are just a matter of preference, and, as they say, there's no accounting for taste.
I welcome anyone who wants to honestly discuss the merits and negatives of the game, but blind fanboys, and attention-seeking haters can fuck all the way off.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 15, 2017 22:18:35 GMT
Very true. Sadly that is why I am no longer truly part of the Jaal thread. I can't say anything against him being bi or I will be slaughtered for it (not that I would, but just an example of forcing someone to see it your way or else). I feel unwelcome there, though I try to talk to the few friends that remain, but I am hurting a lot from how quickly I was abandoned for not feeling like they did and thinking it was fine to harass and threaten the devs to make a statement. I stopped supporting them when they attacked the devs, and that's when I was "evil" and now I am watched all the time, making sure I don't say something they don't like. That's what fanatics of BW romances are and I will never sink to that level again. I realize now it's just a video game and they went too far and it's not worth becoming what they are just to get the last say. The same goes for haters and lovers of the game. You can't force someone to like it, and you can't force someone to hate it, but it doesn't hurt to give reasons why you feel as you do and try and see it from the other person's POV too. You have my genuine sympathies. It's never pleasant to see the sea of nastiness that these kinds of things can become and it's even less pleasant to find yourself in a dinghy in it. Like other medias, video games have a magic to them that can be both wondrously positive and horribly negative. I saw so many cases of the latter on Telltale's TWD forums that I left the forums in its entirety until recently and even so, I remain mostly a lurker. There were people who acted as if any choice made against one of the fictional characters was an insult or punch thrown at a real person and warranted the same kind of defense against the perpetrator. It was as if these fictional characters in this fictional game were deserving of common decency and real people who'd simply made a different choice or had a different perception of those fictional characters were not. I'm glad that I was just a lurker during the time of the endings because I'd likely have been swept away in that sea and become a wave myself. I'll be honest and say that I don't even know if I'd be able to admit to that like you have. You have my admiration for that. I've seen few people who can do that and it's something I've always respected. If it's any consolation, here is one poster who feels the forums are better for having you amongst its posters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 22:19:03 GMT
You have the haters who try and attack everyone who likes the game. That's how it was before the Jason incident. After the Jason incident, the people who like MEA have been targeting the haters in the same way the haters targeted them. Do not try to paint any sort of equivalency between fans who simply want to enjoy something in peace and obsessed people who want fans' lives to be hell because they don't think anyone has the right to enjoy something those self-centered creeps don't like. If someone doesn't like something, that's good for them. Everyone has different tastes. If someone doesn't like something and spends all of their time whining about it, trying to prevent people from discussing their enjoyment of it, and insulting people for daring to like something they don't, I have absolutely no objection to them being told to flip off and get a life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 22:43:03 GMT
I'm not talking about when the endings first came out... I'm talking about how it carried forward into the "editorials" that came out in response to ME:A being announced... i.e. the reaction to the game moving to a different galaxy in general. But that still brings me back to my point as to the media's approach to Bioware. I mean after ME3 you had people complaining saying that the media is biased for Bioware and that EA paid off the journalist who gave the game high review scores when they (disgruntled gamers) felt that it didn't deserve such a high score. I mean, remember this?: This was especially prevalent after Dragon Age 2 released and many gamers felt that the game got too high of a score from the media and presented claims that they are bought out by Bioware/EA. Now that the tables have turned and the media has seemingly taken a more scrutinizing approach to Bioware, now gamers from the other end are saying that the journalist is biased against Bioware. So which one is it? So you don't believe a bias can swing? You don't believe in a backlash reaction? The problem is too much of the game media is just editorial... opinions being pushed either for or against games rather than a journalistic focus on the facts and on checking those facts. An opinionated "report" hits the air and they copy it incessantly... not just copy it... they magnify it. A meme results in more and more exaggerated memes. The thing snowballs. It started with ME:A before the game was even realeased... opinions about moving to a new galaxy as a response to avoiding the endings, etc. The game was being set up as having to meet an unbelievably high standard (unachievable standard, really) in order to just bat even... to undo the damage of the ME3 ending fiasco. Editorials going on about moving to Andromeda as being unavoidably lore breaking and lame and opinions stating that they should just declare a canon ending, etc. all ran rampant in the media before the game was released. So, when those same "reporters" went into the trial and the game did not meet that standard... they gave it lower scores... for many, not super low scores, but fairly low scores for their "average"... and a fan base primed to be very critical just snowballed everything. The whole issue went OVER THE TOP... and it hasn't been reasonable every since. Regardless, the media should not get a pass for doing things like having opinion vids run automatically after genuine information vids on the game... and that happens frequently to me on YouTube. When I'm looking for info on how to get into a secret vault room in the game, I'm perfectly legitimate in objecting to having a "Andromeda is a disaster" vid automatically follow. I should be able to decide whether or not I want to read an opinionated editorial by manually clicking on it... but no, clicks mean money... so the whole reporting of games is falling into this sort of cesspool of opinion. When my avatar is taken from a forum site and posted on Twitter by a reporter whose intent was to ridicule me among his reporter buddies, I have every right to object to that. You're so adamant about not giving the developers any sort of "break" - but you're just so forgiving of the gaming reporters... my questions is WHY?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 15, 2017 23:27:52 GMT
@upupawayredux call them out and tell them to behave or leave. fatherjerusalem People can post whatever they want where they want. If they post on reddit and their comment is considered inane by the rest of us it will be downvoted. Simple as that. As I said, you're upset that negative criticism is upvoted the same as positive criticism. I'll say it again, this subforum is an echo chamber. There's about 200 people browsing this place so it's expected that most of you will pump each other up. It's the same opinions floating around and around. You will be upset when you encounter the occasional counter-current. Many of you only want to read fawning comments and little else. r/masseffect has over 10x the number of users and it's easier to go from sub to sub. I expect to see a greater variety of opinions including many I passionately disagree with and a few ones downright offensive, cultish, and delusional. The former is always welcome, the latter is not. this place is hardly an echo chamber. It's a place to bitch ATM.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2017 0:03:54 GMT
Do not try to paint any sort of equivalency between fans who simply want to enjoy something in peace and obsessed people who want fans' lives to be hell because they don't think anyone has the right to enjoy something those self-centered creeps don't like. If someone doesn't like something, that's good for them. Everyone has different tastes. If someone doesn't like something and spends all of their time whining about it, trying to prevent people from discussing their enjoyment of it, and insulting people for daring to like something they don't, I have absolutely no objection to them being told to flip off and get a life. I'm sorry you feel that way. You should try and take a break from the negative stuff and find a thread where you can share what you like about MEA. Wait don't you also like the game?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2017 0:20:46 GMT
Wait don't you also like the game? I love MEA. It's my favorite ME game, but it's sad people feel they need to lash out at the haters instead of ignoring them. It's just a waste of energy. Yeah and certain people who go nameless kinda remind me of this.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2017 0:23:38 GMT
Yeah and certain people who go nameless kinda remind me of this. I am watching the new TLJ clips and you show me this??? LOL! Lol new clips?! * goes to YouTube*
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2017 0:30:27 GMT
Lol new clips?! * goes to YouTube* Behind the scenes. Lots of spoilers! I just watched it. Is it Christmas yet?
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2017 0:31:13 GMT
Let's hope it's better than the Force Awakens.
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March 2017
griffith82
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2017 0:32:11 GMT
Let's hope it's better than the Force Awakens? I loved The Force Awakens so... *hides behind Drack*
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The Smiling Knight
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smilesja
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August 2016
smilesja
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2017 0:34:17 GMT
Let's hope it's better than the Force Awakens? I loved The Force Awakens so... *hides behind Drack*
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