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Post by goishen on Sept 20, 2016 22:31:29 GMT
The first boss (I take it that you mean the three augs that you're supposed to go after?), can be defeated by picking up gas canisters and tossing them at him. The third boss, you can just punch out. And I forget how to defeat the second boss (the woman), but I know that there's a way. The third boss is actually the easiest, if you ask me.
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 20, 2016 22:38:10 GMT
The Director's Cut of DXHR made changes to the boss fights so you aren't forced to do a straight up slugging match anymore. I forgot what they did to the others, but the first boss fight now features tunnels to hide in and turrets to hack and such.
EDIT: on topic - I never know whether to worry or be happy when BioWare claims to have learned from previous mis-steps. What they took away from the DA2 criticisms was apparently "no recycled levels please" (which was good) and "we want a more epic story!" - and I have no idea where they got that from. Consequently we got huge maps... but lacking in content quality, and a story where demons rained from the sky. Given what was criticized about DAI, are we going to get smaller maps without any side quests now?
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Post by Iakus on Sept 20, 2016 22:42:16 GMT
The first boss (I take it that you mean the three augs that you're supposed to go after?), can be defeated by picking up gas canisters and tossing them at him. The third boss, you can just punch out. And I forget how to defeat the second boss (the woman), but I know that there's a way. The third boss is actually the easiest, if you ask me. Throwing things at the first boss can be quite difficult given there is little cover and he continuously shoots and/or throws grenades at you. And punching the third boss takes split-second timing or he dodges and hits you back (believe me, I've tried) But the Director's Cut reworked the maps, adding options for more stealth-based characters with hackable turrets, vents you can hid in, etc. Oh, and the second boss can be beaten by either using the eye augmentations to see through her cloak, or you can electrify the water to stun her (you take damage too, though) Edit:
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Post by goishen on Sept 20, 2016 22:48:55 GMT
Doesn't take split second timing, does take a quick response, but split second seems like it's a fraction of a second and it's not.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 20, 2016 23:08:15 GMT
Yeah, my understanding is that was a glitch. It's not possible in the Director's Cut (and even in the original, could only be done if you didn't get the chip "upgrade"). Just stock up on mines and run arund, letting him chase you
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 21, 2016 3:18:23 GMT
Again though, the claim was that DA:I encourages proper resource management as opposed to just unleashing everything every fight. The fact that you opted not to do things which negates the need to do any of that doesn't mean that the game actively encourages it. You weren't rewarded for not stocking up on potions on a regular basis. You're rewarded by not having to stock up. The annoyance of stocking up is a cost. Avoiding that cost is a reward. If we assume the player derives no benefit from a feature, then obviously that feature will create no incentives. We could apply that reasoning to every feature. Shall we?
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 21, 2016 4:02:47 GMT
I never found the fetch quests annoying and think the complaints are overblown, although I can understand why some might find them tedious. Let's just hope that's not all Bioware took away as issues that need to be fixed, when there were genuine real problems with the story at times, various plot elements had no payoff, some characters or companion lacked any kind of arc or plot relevance, there were no real stakes after Skyhold and Corypheus was very thinly drawn as a main villain. Compared to those issues... a fetch quest is hardly a deal-breaking flaw of the game? In DAI there was this map where the shard quest started. The whole map felt artificially engineered and getting places made me feel like playing a platformer jump and run. Kinda immersion-breaking. Enough to vow to never revisit that map in following playthroughs. Emprise de Lion was similar in an area and there were several other map areas that just felt over engineered with paths to reach places. Those areas didn't feel anything like "open world".
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 21, 2016 4:07:52 GMT
You're rewarded by not having to stock up. The annoyance of stocking up is a cost. Avoiding that cost is a reward. That's not something I find annoying considering how quick and easy it is to restock. I said assuming the player derives no joy, not that they derive no benefit. The reason I said that is because that's entirely subjective and not actually an incentive that a game can build into a feature. Origins actually encourages better management of resources better because potions aren't free and mana/stamina doesn't regenerate as quickly, so if you do burn everything in the opening seconds of a fight you're going to have to start chugging potions. Those potions have an in-game currency cost attached to them, while Inquisition's potions are free once you've crafted one of them. The abilities being ready when needed would hold more weight if they had longer cooldowns. World of Warcraft makes my most impactful spells have cooldowns upwards of 3-5 minutes, meaning I really do have to consider when the best use of them would be. If I burn my big AoE heal to handle some minor raid wide damage, there's a very good chance I wont have it in an emergency situation. On top of that I only regenerate 0.8% of my max mana per second, so I'm rewarded by managing my mana properly with being able to cast my healing spells for longer periods of time and keep more people alive(raid fights in WoW can last upwards of 10 minutes). Outside of my base regeneration, the only way I have of getting mana back is a potion I can use once per combat that restores ~15% of my max mana. Inquisition however really has only minor rewards for properly managing your resources and cooldowns. Any resource or ability I use up is going to be back within a matter of seconds.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 21, 2016 6:37:04 GMT
TW2 was an improvement over the first game in terms of gameplay, with less of a rhythm based system of combat. It is still very action oriented though and has problems of its own. You need to roll a lot. I will say that I enjoyed the story and that act 2 is completely different depending on choices in the previous act. I have the third game, and I've been meaning to get around to playing past the first ten minutes for about a year now... I'd say that the third game was a large overall improvement in all the ways that matter. (maybe not perfect, but what game is) What small annoyances I did have with the game were largely fixable by mods. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> I started to play TW1 ==> awful combat mechanics == never finished I started to play TW2 ==> improved but still awkward == never finished I played TW3 ==> much better but I prefer an auto attack mechanic as in DA:2 With Skyrim, I always choose a long range character. First person melee combat does not give me the perception of depth or of timing. On the other hand, compared to DA:I or TW, Mass Effect melee combat is a breeze and fun to use.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 21, 2016 12:39:12 GMT
Some improvements via mods are possible when it comes to TW3 combat. My personal favorite is an INI file modification that allows you to use hotkeys for the signs, instead of the original system which I found annoying. Other improvements are possible as well. That said, if CDPR would have asked me - I would have preferred to have different classes focused on different aspects. Such as Magic, Archery, Melee combat, and maybe Alchemy. I'm torn on the set protagonist as well, but the bottom line is that I enjoyed playing as Geralt much more than I did playing the Inquisitor in DA:I. The reactivity by the game to your character and his abilities is simply unparalleled when you have a set protagonist, and I just *love* reactivity. (I certainly prefer it to examples like Hawke using magic in front of Cullen to kill Demons without Cullen noticing...) <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> LOL.. Hawke, magic Cullen and Demons...... wasn't that a riot? Come to think about it, how come Hawke, the"wild" magic user was tolerated by the Templars?
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 21, 2016 12:41:13 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> I started to play TW1 ==> awful combat mechanics == never finished I started to play TW2 ==> improved but still awkward == never finished I played TW3 ==> much better but I prefer an auto attack mechanic as in DA:2 With Skyrim, I always choose a long range character. First person melee combat does not give me the perception of depth or of timing. On the other hand, compared to DA:I or TW, Mass Effect melee combat is a breeze and fun to use. Some improvements via mods are possible when it comes to TW3 combat. My personal favorite is an INI file modification that allows you to use hotkeys for the signs, instead of the original system which I found annoying. Other improvements are possible as well. That said, if CDPR would have asked me - I would have preferred to have different classes focused on different aspects. Such as Magic, Archery, Melee combat, and maybe Alchemy. I'm torn on the set protagonist as well, but the bottom line is that I enjoyed playing as Geralt much more than I did playing the Inquisitor in DA:I. The reactivity by the game to your character and his abilities is simply unparalleled when you have a set protagonist, and I just *love* reactivity. (I certainly prefer it to examples like Hawke using magic in front of Cullen to kill Demons without Cullen noticing...) I will give it that, the set protagonist allows them to do things with Geralt Bioware would probably never try with a dragon age protagonist. Geralt is great as long as you like Geralt. I generally find he matched the cynical yet hopeful way I tend to play characters. The combat, even the sliver of the third game I played, has always been just tolerable for me though. It has never grabbed me. Then again, Inquisition's combat was only more enjoyable to me because it's less punishing of small mistakes and timing. At any rate, I'm curious to see what the Witcher devs will do with Cyberpunk 2077, as I gather that won't have a set protagonist.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 21, 2016 13:00:47 GMT
The Director's Cut of DXHR made changes to the boss fights so you aren't forced to do a straight up slugging match anymore. I forgot what they did to the others, but the first boss fight now features tunnels to hide in and turrets to hack and such. EDIT: on topic - I never know whether to worry or be happy when BioWare claims to have learned from previous mis-steps. What they took away from the DA2 criticisms was apparently "no recycled levels please" (which was good) and "we want a more epic story!" - and I have no idea where they got that from. Consequently we got huge maps... but lacking in content quality, and a story where demons rained from the sky. Given what was criticized about DAI, are we going to get smaller maps without any side quests now? <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Mass Effect Andromeda will be "massive" and "open world", from what I gather. Open world games is the "in-thing" now. Let's hope that Flynn eliminated the trash in DA:I from polluting ME:A.
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Post by Ieldra on Sept 21, 2016 13:13:23 GMT
Speaking of combat ruining games: I just couldn't stand the differently designed boss battles in Deus Ex Human Revolution. I'm a stealth player and you get locked into a small arena (just like TW2 first boss). Apparently a different team designed these. They can thank this team for me not picking up Mankind Divided. I played it once through and ragequit and uninstalled in the second playthrough when I got to the first boss. In the Director's Cut they redesigned the boss fights so that stealth players can do them. A big improvement that made DXHR into altogether fantastic game. The integrated DLC "The missing link" also helps.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 21, 2016 13:25:27 GMT
Origins actually encourages better management of resources better because potions aren't free and mana/stamina doesn't regenerate as quickly, so if you do burn everything in the opening seconds of a fight you're going to have to start chugging potions. Those potions have an in-game currency cost attached to them, while Inquisition's potions are free once you've crafted one of them. DAO's regenerating health largely eliminates the need for potions. Outside of a couple of boss fights (only one - Caridin - immediately springs to mind), they're just not necessary. Plus, since there's no limit to how many you can carry, there's no need to manage consumption. That said, I dislike the artificially low limit on potions that appeared in DA2 and DAI. But I can't agree with the claim that DAO encouraged resource management (despite being a far more difficult game than DAI). After a few seconds might be too late. Stun or knockdown abilities are great for stopping enemy attacks (though admittedly DAO was even better at this with the terrific Overwhelm ability possesed by all wolves and spiders), and Dispel is basically an "I WIN" button when closing rifts, but only for a brief moment and then the opportunity passes.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 21, 2016 13:32:21 GMT
I'm torn on the set protagonist as well, but the bottom line is that I enjoyed playing as Geralt much more than I did playing the Inquisitor in DA:I. The reactivity by the game to your character and his abilities is simply unparalleled when you have a set protagonist, and I just *love* reactivity. (I certainly prefer it to examples like Hawke using magic in front of Cullen to kill Demons without Cullen noticing...) I will give it that, the set protagonist allows them to do things with Geralt Bioware would probably never try with a dragon age protagonist. Geralt is great as long as you like Geralt. I generally find he matched the cynical yet hopeful way I tend to play characters. The combat, even the sliver of the third game I played, has always been just tolerable for me though. It has never grabbed me. Then again, Inquisition's combat was only more enjoyable to me because it's less punishing of small mistakes and timing. At any rate, I'm curious to see what the Witcher devs will do with Cyberpunk 2077, as I gather that won't have a set protagonist.[/quote] The real strength of an RPG, I think, is that I can play it multiple times with significantly different protagonists. While I love DAI, this isn't an area where the game excels. DAO was much better at it. Regardless of how much I might like Geralt (and I do think he's the sort of character I would enjoy), he's just one character.
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is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 21, 2016 13:35:46 GMT
Again though, the claim was that DA:I encourages proper resource management as opposed to just unleashing everything every fight. The fact that you opted not to do things which negates the need to do any of that doesn't mean that the game actively encourages it. You weren't rewarded for not stocking up on potions on a regular basis. You're rewarded by not having to stock up. The annoyance of stocking up is a cost. Avoiding that cost is a reward. If we assume the player derives no benefit from a feature, then obviously that feature will create no incentives. We could apply that reasoning to every feature. Shall we? And the more things change the more they stay the same. Who has the popcorn?
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 21, 2016 13:56:21 GMT
I didn't like in Inquisition being forced to only have a small amount of health potions, no healing magic, and no health regeneration. If I want to spam healing potions, I should be able to. It isn't an MMO, so let me play the way I want. If others don't want to do that, they don't have to. It is annoying when they force their play style on you. I've never been particularly great at combat so I like as many health regeneration options as possible. The #1 reason I fail to finish a game is from dying and having to replay a section. I just don't enjoy that.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 21, 2016 14:45:34 GMT
DAO's regenerating health largely eliminates the need for potions. Outside of a couple of boss fights (only one - Caridin - immediately springs to mind), they're just not necessary. Plus, since there's no limit to how many you can carry, there's no need to manage consumption. That said, I dislike the artificially low limit on potions that appeared in DA2 and DAI. But I can't agree with the claim that DAO encouraged resource management (despite being a far more difficult game than DAI). While Origins allowed you to carry effectively unlimited potions every potion actually cost you an in-game resource, meaning you could save on money and crafting materials by not using up a ton of them. That right there is the reward for managing your consumables, which doesn't really need to be a big one because Inquisition offers nothing for not being wasteful with your potions. On top of that the fights were designed around you taking a lot more damage. Health is a resource you have to manage a lot more within each fight itself by having a healer, which is a build they removed from Inquisition. The design that they didn't like is the one that actually forced you to manage health in combat: A character could die in a couple of seconds from high burst enemies. Plus character KO in Origins provided a stacking penalty with injuries(that could be removed with a consumable item), which Inquisition removed. I actually can't recall a single fight in Inquisition where I struggled. Even being "wasteful" with my potions as I was, I almost never actually ran out of them because almost nothing could hurt my tank. This was even playing on a higher difficulty. I've never had a situation in Inquisition where a few seconds would have given me issues, largely because of the immortal tank I mentioned above as well as Barrier from my Mage negating large amounts of damage for the whole party(and being able to get it back before it wears off with the right talents). It seems like BioWare wanted to create a game a lot like you're talking about here, but they provided me with so many ways to negate damage that none of it really mattered. What Inquisition really rewards you for doing is learning how to properly build a tank that can shrug off most of the damage they'll be taking. I'll give you dispel, but that's pretty situational.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 21, 2016 15:05:41 GMT
Some improvements via mods are possible when it comes to TW3 combat. My personal favorite is an INI file modification that allows you to use hotkeys for the signs, instead of the original system which I found annoying. Other improvements are possible as well. That said, if CDPR would have asked me - I would have preferred to have different classes focused on different aspects. Such as Magic, Archery, Melee combat, and maybe Alchemy. I'm torn on the set protagonist as well, but the bottom line is that I enjoyed playing as Geralt much more than I did playing the Inquisitor in DA:I. The reactivity by the game to your character and his abilities is simply unparalleled when you have a set protagonist, and I just *love* reactivity. (I certainly prefer it to examples like Hawke using magic in front of Cullen to kill Demons without Cullen noticing...) I will give it that, the set protagonist allows them to do things with Geralt Bioware would probably never try with a dragon age protagonist. Geralt is great as long as you like Geralt. I generally find he matched the cynical yet hopeful way I tend to play characters. The combat, even the sliver of the third game I played, has always been just tolerable for me though. It has never grabbed me. Then again, Inquisition's combat was only more enjoyable to me because it's less punishing of small mistakes and timing. At any rate, I'm curious to see what the Witcher devs will do with Cyberpunk 2077, as I gather that won't have a set protagonist. I honestly don't agree with that. I find Geralt's character to be rather flat, at least in the first two games. I found characters like Iorveth, Roache, and even Triss to be much more interesting than Geralt, which made me play Witcher 2 longer because their personalities were quite good. Geralt has always been flat to me...maybe it's because of the cold sort of "Witcher" aspect to him of being a mutant and all of that. He just comes off as a Mary-Sue to me more often than he should, or probably than they intended, and it reminds me of the rather mediocre writing in early BioWare games more than anything else.
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wsdswsaswwasdawwI can't move!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 21, 2016 15:44:55 GMT
Checking statistics in WoW, I have over 20k quests completed there, most of them 'go fetch/kill', some so annoying it made me scream at walls (get 20 items from mobs, there's 5 of them with 10 min respawn and 25% droprate).
So bring your worst BioWare, my body questlog is ready.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2016 15:54:25 GMT
Sadly, I suspect if Bioware "learned" anything from The Witcher, it's that women should walk around naked and male characters should be foul-mouthed mercenaries.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 21, 2016 15:55:51 GMT
I will give it that, the set protagonist allows them to do things with Geralt Bioware would probably never try with a dragon age protagonist. Geralt is great as long as you like Geralt. I generally find he matched the cynical yet hopeful way I tend to play characters. The combat, even the sliver of the third game I played, has always been just tolerable for me though. It has never grabbed me. Then again, Inquisition's combat was only more enjoyable to me because it's less punishing of small mistakes and timing. At any rate, I'm curious to see what the Witcher devs will do with Cyberpunk 2077, as I gather that won't have a set protagonist. I honestly don't agree with that. I find Geralt's character to be rather flat, at least in the first two games. I found characters like Iorveth, Roache, and even Triss to be much more interesting than Geralt, which made me play Witcher 2 longer because their personalities were quite good. Geralt has always been flat to me...maybe it's because of the cold sort of "Witcher" aspect to him of being a mutant and all of that. He just comes off as a Mary-Sue to me more often than he should, or probably than they intended, and it reminds me of the rather mediocre writing in early BioWare games more than anything else. I think I just like how I can play a character who can be mercenary but also do good deeds. Though I definitely agree that the engaging supporting cast is more important to keeping me with the game. Both aspects were rather weak in the first game and that's where I would think that Mary Sue label applies most.
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Innocent Bystander
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wsdswsaswwasdawwI can't move!
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 21, 2016 15:56:58 GMT
Doesn't take split second timing, does take a quick response, but split second seems like it's a fraction of a second and it's not. This got patched in Director's Cut. In that situation you don't get takedown prompt at all. So I resorted to cheap tactics and murdered him with grenade launcher. Took even less time.
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Adhin
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Post by Adhin on Sept 21, 2016 17:13:28 GMT
Sadly, I suspect if Bioware "learned" anything from The Witcher, it's that women should walk around naked and male characters should be foul-mouthed mercenaries. Ahh I dunno about that. I am definitely happy that they stopped bitching out on nudity when they write it into stuff. I'm not like woo tittehs evrywur yeeaaah! I like boobs as much as the next guy but I feel like it needs to make sense, you know? But that goes in reverse, if your in an area or in some conversation/encounter where it blindly was written as there being nudity and it's convinently covered up by magic hair placement or something its just - I dunno. Feels like they just didn't want there mommies to catch them. Like Jack in ME2, you write her as topless, your concept art is all topless. But then they slapped a leather strap just to cover up the nips. But then ALL of the dialog is based around her being topless still. Just give her a fucking tank-top and don't write her topless if that's how your gonna handle it. I do think between the Witchers success and them taking that 'first step' as it where with DAI they've gotten over that hurtle in there brains where they feel like they're actually allowed to do the stuff there writing for a damn change. I'm sure stuff like Game of Thrones has had a bit hand in that too. Anyway my whole point of this is - they've already 'learned' that as of DAI, so it's been years (game wasn't made in a day). If there is anything they take away from W3 it wont be something they've already figured out for them selves. So heres hoping it's consistency and level of content and that side quest do 'not' have to be so absurdly tied into the main narrative. Hell, I'd say most side stuff shouldn't be tied in narratively to the main quest, not directly. It gets old quick when everything seems to be the same damn thing.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2016 17:36:15 GMT
Sadly, I suspect if Bioware "learned" anything from The Witcher, it's that women should walk around naked and male characters should be foul-mouthed mercenaries. What you call foul-mouthed mercenaries I call language appropriate for the setting and the class of the speakers. (and the frequency of "foul language" in the game is also greatly exaggerated. It's certainly there, but not as prevalent as some make it to be) And the only women that walked around in truly revealing clothing are prostitutes, which contrary to Bioware's sanitized vision - actually makes sense both for the setting and historically speaking. If DA:I is any indication, Bioware is more likely to bend the lore backwards to accommodate political correctness than anything else. Hey I still remember getting a serious eyeful of Triss at the start of TW2... But the point is, Bioware hears people say "be more like X!" They will likely look at X, completely miss the point, and take away only a few obvious surface features. Remember how DAI had them actively looking at Skyrim?
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