Beerfish
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 23, 2016 15:34:35 GMT
The shard skull viewing was a nice touch I like that. The payoff for the quest mostly sucked though and the placement of some shards appeared to be totally focused in screwing the player and making them take 20 minutes to get one shard.
My typical start to a gaming session would look like this, load it up. look at at the map and say 'Okay there is a shard just out of camp, I want to head to that rift over there and I can grab the shard along the way, fetch the golden goat get the rift closed and then head to that unknown cave to check out'
What actually happens, the shard is one pixel out of camp but it is up on a cliff, okay looks like i can get up there, jump, jump, jump, fall, jump, jump, can almost reach it, jump, jump, fall. Okay can't get it that way, I'll just walk around quickly and find the path up. 10 minutes of real time walking later on the total other side of the huge mountain you find a path up.
The grab the shard just out of camp bit takes 30 minutes and much cussing and the 'plan' is totally out the airlock.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 23, 2016 15:37:18 GMT
The point there was more about the fact that things which can't be CC'd are going to cause you damage that you are simply expected to heal through.
As I said before I'm mostly talking about the boss fights. If we're talking trash mobs, the same claim can be made of Inquisition mobs if I build my party around CCing entire groups of enemies.
It removes the need for long term tactical choices since you regenerate between fights, but the fact that neither regenerate during the fight makes for more tactical choices in the fights themselves. Blow all your mana in the first 5 seconds of an Origins fight you're either chugging potions or hitting things with your staff for the rest of the fight. Do that in Inquisition and you've got all your mana back in 5 seconds.
So when you say Inquisition encourages conservation of resources I'm not seeing it. Why conserve things which I can readily replenish for little to no cost?
If mana didn't regenerate(and I don't think it should have either), then you'd have more of a point but it does regenerate and it regenerates very quickly. Without infinite mana I also wouldn't be spamming Barrier on cooldown either, which is a big reason as to why my parties take little to no damage.
As somebody who was a hardcore raiding guild's main tank on WoW for years, that's a misconception you have about tanks.
We don't actually want to take damage and that's not our real objective. We do it because we're tougher than anybody else in the group and because, especially in MMOs, fights are sometimes designed around not taking damage being flat out impossible.
However we have two main objectives: 1. Hold the attention of the enemy so they're focused on us and 2. Take as little damage as possible from those enemies.
It's not all that different from how in D&D/Pathfinder you'd rather have your heavy armour wearing Fighter being the one getting attacked than your Mage, because they can take hits better. Your Fighter isn't specifically setting out to take the damage but in the event that somebody has to, they're better suited to being the one to take it. It's just that in MMOs, taking damage tends to be completely unavoidable.
In every MMO I've played Warriors are capable of just as much damage as Rogues are(maybe it was different back in EQ days, but WoW changed a lot of things), unless for some weird reason you're comparing a Warrior who put all of their talents/traits into more defense versus a Rogue who put everything into more damage. In WoW right now Arms/Fury Warriors(damage focused builds) can compete with Rogues in terms of damage output, and all damage oriented builds should be competitive in damage output.
Which again isn't really different from most RPGs. I can build a defense focused Fighter in D&D who wont put out as much damage as a damage focused Rogue. This is going to be a thing in any system that allows for a decent amount of customizability in your character.
The only real difference with MMOs is that raiding forces a need to have everybody performing a useful in-combat job. If Warriors were far better at dealing damage, nobody would bring Rogues to raids no matter how useful their non combat skills are.
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 23, 2016 17:10:05 GMT
The shard skull viewing was a nice touch I like that. The payoff for the quest mostly sucked though and the placement of some shards appeared to be totally focused in screwing the player and making them take 20 minutes to get one shard. My typical start to a gaming session would look like this, load it up. look at at the map and say 'Okay there is a shard just out of camp, I want to head to that rift over there and I can grab the shard along the way, fetch the golden goat get the rift closed and then head to that unknown cave to check out' What actually happens, the shard is one pixel out of camp but it is up on a cliff, okay looks like i can get up there, jump, jump, jump, fall, jump, jump, can almost reach it, jump, jump, fall. Okay can't get it that way, I'll just walk around quickly and find the path up. 10 minutes of real time walking later on the total other side of the huge mountain you find a path up. The grab the shard just out of camp bit takes 30 minutes and much cussing and the 'plan' is totally out the airlock. The sound I easily hated the most in DAI was the repeated ad nauseam *thud* *thud* *thud* *scrape scrape scrape* *thud* *thud* Jumping and sliding off the mountain side and jumping some more. And occasionally, your companions would teleport right next to you as if to mock your awkward attempts, and sometimes even shove you off the four pixels you were standing on. Good times.
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Beerfish
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Little Pumpkin
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 23, 2016 17:17:28 GMT
The sound I easily hated the most in DAI was the repeated ad nauseam *thud* *thud* *thud* *scrape scrape scrape* *thud* *thud* Jumping and sliding off the mountain side and jumping some more. And occasionally, your companions would teleport right next to you as if to mock your awkward attempts, and sometimes even shove you off the four pixels you were standing on. Good times. I actually had to use the trick of having the party pop up next to me and then me quickly switching to another character so I could get up where they were standing.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2016 17:40:06 GMT
On the plus side Obsidians seems to of taken a turn toward that old school no-VO protagonist top-down RPG lately. Kinda curious if they're even working on anything more mainstream after South Park (which I loved, fantastic game). There's Tyranny. Here's the E3 build. A Pillars of Eternity 2 is supposedly in production as well
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 23, 2016 17:45:25 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
Mass Effect Andromeda has an opportunity to show off Bio's facial expression technology. I believe that the studio will take every opportunity to bring the character "to life".
Does anyone here believe that the facial expressions will only be shown during cut-scenes and NOT during game-play? And, which of the MW races (in Andromeda) do you think have non-rigid faces? My take is Turian, Salarian and Krogan.
I'll add that the new Helius LI will be human like and thus will come with a smile and I love to see a cat race with their teeth when the get angry!
My hypothesis is that mammals have both the emotional and facial expression range while egg laying species have rigid faces (ie: amphibian, chitinous, insectoid, and lizard).
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 23, 2016 17:46:43 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Mass Effect Andromeda has an opportunity to show off Bio's facial expression technology. I believe that the studio will take every opportunity to bring the character "to life". Does anyone here believe that the facial expressions will only be shown during cut-scenes and NOT during game-play? And, which of the MW races (in Andromeda) do you think have non-rigid faces? My take is Turian, Salarian and Krogan. I'll add that the new Helius LI will be human like and thus will come with a smile and I love to see a cat race with their teeth when the get angry! My hypothesis is that mammals have both the emotional and facial expression range while egg laying species have rigid faces (ie: amphibian, chitinous, insectoid, and lizard). That is part of the cinematic approach anyway, to show off more tech and facial features to add realism and agency to characters. Hopefully it pays off.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 23, 2016 19:46:32 GMT
Yeah that's what I was talking about. That's not considered a 'Triple-A' title though. Already knew about that game, not as interested in it as I was about PoE but then they are making a PoE2 as well at some point. That ones being funded by the people that helped them ship/advertise PoE which is a rather small publisher. Curious if they have any projects in the works doing anything you know, larger.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 23, 2016 20:02:48 GMT
A Pillars of Eternity 2 is supposedly in production as well Really? How very interesting... You have a source? Didn't see anything on Youtube from them. I think they alluded to it before but it's not confirmed. Honestly, i'm ok with that. Pillars had a lot of good stuff in it, and a lot of stuff I didn't care for, but the setting has potential.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2016 20:12:31 GMT
A Pillars of Eternity 2 is supposedly in production as well Really? How very interesting... You have a source? Didn't see anything on Youtube from them. From an article a few months ago. www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=712
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 23, 2016 21:55:18 GMT
Here's a new Tyranny video with some new details if someone is interested. Edit: Apparently spell creation is a thing, a rather interesting take on magic. Thats not totally unusual, although it is a nice touch I got to say. Then again, much of the combat design in Tyranny is very 4e/ Elder Scrolls based, which I am ok with honestly. Customizable spells and abilities is a good way to do that.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 24, 2016 0:33:34 GMT
Really? How very interesting... You have a source? Didn't see anything on Youtube from them. I think they alluded to it before but it's not confirmed. Honestly, i'm ok with that. Pillars had a lot of good stuff in it, and a lot of stuff I didn't care for, but the setting has potential. They kinda blew the biggest possible lore reveal they could have early, but I too am interested to see more.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 24, 2016 1:02:12 GMT
I think they alluded to it before but it's not confirmed. Honestly, i'm ok with that. Pillars had a lot of good stuff in it, and a lot of stuff I didn't care for, but the setting has potential. They kinda blew the biggest possible lore reveal they could have early, but I too am interested to see more. Heck we only got to see a part of one small nation on an entire planet with like 20,000 years of history. We didn't even get to see the lands we could choose for our backgrounds! Rauatai? The Aedyran Empire? Old Vailia? The White That Wends? Heck we never even saw Readreas or the Vailian Republics! As for that lore reveal, well, let's just say if there isn't more to it than that I will be VERY disappointed.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 24, 2016 1:16:16 GMT
Going cinematic hasn't given 'you' anything. But over the years you've established your kinda an outlayer of humans who play video games... if your even human (that was a joke). I've said it before (to you a few times), old games and new, regardless of VO or ability to show emotions effectively - they've always BEEN implied and intended by the writer/developers. The inability to hear/show them in older games just meant it was easier for you personally to pretend that wasn't the case. I didn't need to pretend it. The content was never in the games. Implication, if it even exists, makes no material difference, and we know intent doesn't matter. The fact is that the games now take away a bunch of player control over how his character behaves. Ibsidian has shown to evidence that they are turning away from their heavy story-driven focus that ruined both NWN2 and KotOR2. PoE was no different.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 24, 2016 1:18:22 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Mass Effect Andromeda has an opportunity to show off Bio's facial expression technology. I believe that the studio will take every opportunity to bring the character "to life". Does anyone here believe that the facial expressions will only be shown during cut-scenes and NOT during game-play? And, which of the MW races (in Andromeda) do you think have non-rigid faces? My take is Turian, Salarian and Krogan. I'll add that the new Helius LI will be human like and thus will come with a smile and I love to see a cat race with their teeth when the get angry! My hypothesis is that mammals have both the emotional and facial expression range while egg laying species have rigid faces (ie: amphibian, chitinous, insectoid, and lizard). That is part of the cinematic approach anyway, to show off more tech and facial features to add realism and agency to characters. Hopefully it pays off. Player agency is vastly more important than character agency. And they are radically different things.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 24, 2016 1:21:28 GMT
Ibsidian has shown to evidence that they are turning away from their heavy story-driven focus that ruined both NWN2 and KotOR2. PoE was no different.[/quote] There kinda has to be a story if you're going to play a role in it. Particularly in a cRPG It's the agreement between a player and a GM, to work together to tell a good one. PoE managed. It told a story for grownups (and not just in a "t*ts and dragons" way) where your reputation, personality, and even race and class contributed to how the world reacted to you.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 24, 2016 1:29:43 GMT
I didn't need to pretend it. The content was never in the games. Implication, if it even exists, makes no material difference, and we know intent doesn't matter. The fact is that the games now take away a bunch of player control over how his character behaves. Ibsidian has shown to evidence that they are turning away from their heavy story-driven focus that ruined both NWN2 and KotOR2. PoE was no different. LOL See this is what I'm talking about. I know we've had this conversation multiple times at this point and I know it's completely pointless to keep at it. But I'm bored so might as well. All the dialog is written by a writer. When they write a line, weather it's for an NPC or the player it has an intention and meaning behind it. It's meant to be a joke, sarcastic, be angry, mean, generally aggressive of persuasive. Not sure why you think intent doesn't matter, intent is easily one of the most important things in communication. Anyway, you ignore all that. It doesn't matter to you and you like to have your head cannon and all the VO and cinematics directly oppose that. That's basically all there is to it. It's always been there, and current direction and technical advancements are making it more difficult for you to ignore it. Feel free to keep pretending it never existed, but your just kidding your self.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 24, 2016 1:34:05 GMT
That is part of the cinematic approach anyway, to show off more tech and facial features to add realism and agency to characters. Hopefully it pays off. Player agency is vastly more important than character agency. And they are radically different things. I'm referring to NPC's mostly though, over the player.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 24, 2016 1:49:47 GMT
As I said before I'm mostly talking about the boss fights. If we're talking trash mobs, the same claim can be made of Inquisition mobs if I build my party around CCing entire groups of enemies. I didn't realize you were talking about biss fights (though paralysis explosion worked in some of those, too. You're totally right about Inquisition, though that was a function of the low difficulty, not the regeneration. I agree that mana shouldn't have regenerated either. If the game had been moddable, we could have fixed that. They do regenerate in Origins. Not as fast as Inquisition (which was way too fast), but they do regenerate in combat. And the exploitable sustained abilities were such that they never cost any mana. Also, the auto-attacks did a non-trivial amount of damage. Non-regenerating health encourages that. DAI is too easy. If mana didn't regenerate(and I don't think it should have either), then you'd have more of a point but it does regenerate and it regenerates very quickly. Without infinite mana I also wouldn't be spamming Barrier on cooldown either, which is a big reason as to why my parties take little to no damage. MMOs aren't known for the coherence of their world design. They're the most gamist of all RPG designs. But in those games, an all-mage party is feasible. You don't need fighters. Raiding is far from the only gameplay available - I played EQ and then EQ2 for about 3 years, and I played entirely solo in both. But again, MMOs are gamist. For the record, my favourite MMO remains EVE Online. I don't see how that's a problem.
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Post by fchopin on Sept 24, 2016 11:33:12 GMT
Talk is easy we will see what they learned when we know more or when the game is out.
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Post by ClarkKent on Sept 24, 2016 11:43:10 GMT
Another note in regards to emotions in protagonists. Adam Jensen. He didn't ask for this , but he has an awesome VA with an awesome name (Elias Toufexis), but his range of emotions is rather limited. Sarcasm is the most common, with anger on occasions, and some sympathy usually as an optional choice. I suppose his broody persona kinda fits the Cyberpunk theme, and personally I don't think this harmed his character in any way really. Still, curious to know what others think of him. I really don't like Jensen. Everything about him, his coat, his Matrix glasses, his voice...made me stop playing Human Revolution and think twice about buying Mankind Divided. It's a shame because Human Revolution is one of those games that I really should like.
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twitch.tv/goishen
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goishen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by goishen on Sept 24, 2016 12:40:23 GMT
Really? I love him, even though he's a protagonist I should hate. Sounds like every other protagonist for for the past 20-30 years.
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Sartoz
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August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 24, 2016 14:32:36 GMT
Here's a new Tyranny video with some new details if someone is interested. Edit: Apparently spell creation is a thing, a rather interesting take on magic. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, new magic... shyte, even old magic, is not in the menu in the Dragon Age franchise. I won't be surprised if magic spells are further reduced in DA4... simplify being an apparent mantra. Hell, the next project will probably have magic spells based on the rock, paper, scissor principle.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
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4,072
linksocarina
Teaching Mode Activated
3,186
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 24, 2016 14:38:48 GMT
Here's a new Tyranny video with some new details if someone is interested. Edit: Apparently spell creation is a thing, a rather interesting take on magic. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, new magic... shyte, even old magic, is not in the menu in the Dragon Age franchise. I won't be surprised if magic spells are further reduced in DA4... simplify being an apparent mantra. Hell, the next project will probably have magic spells based on the rock, paper, scissor principle. I hope not. I was greatly disappointed by the magic spell selection in Inquisition. The few new additions made sense for the more tactical-style menu they were creating (and multiplayer, for that matter) but it was simply not enough to capture the feel of the magic in Origins and 2.
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Nov 23, 2024 11:57:59 GMT
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 24, 2016 14:44:21 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, new magic... shyte, even old magic, is not in the menu in the Dragon Age franchise. I won't be surprised if magic spells are further reduced in DA4... simplify being an apparent mantra. Hell, the next project will probably have magic spells based on the rock, paper, scissor principle. I hope not. I was greatly disappointed by the magic spell selection in Inquisition. The few new additions made sense for the more tactical-style menu they were creating (and multiplayer, for that matter) but it was simply not enough to capture the feel of the magic in Origins and 2. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Eh.. you know I was being sarcastic, right? And, yes, I also miss the Origin, DA 2 magic feel.... and the tact script.
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