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Post by Cyonan on Sept 24, 2016 18:18:28 GMT
I didn't realize you were talking about biss fights (though paralysis explosion worked in some of those, too. You're totally right about Inquisition, though that was a function of the low difficulty, not the regeneration. I agree that mana shouldn't have regenerated either. If the game had been moddable, we could have fixed that. It kind of has to be about boss fights because trash mobs in both games are so easy that you can get through most of those without much damage taken, if any. Though the original point is that there's no encouragement to conserve resources if the game is so easy that the only limited regenerating resource I have doesn't take a hit in most fights. It regenerates pretty slow though. You might get a few casts out, but you'll definitely be using the staff for the majority of the fight if you blow all your mana in the opening seconds(or chugging Lyrium potions). While auto attacks did decent damage, you had no more utility abilities which are a fairly big deal in both games. True, but I was saying as a tank our objective isn't actually to take damage but rather to mitigate it. We just accept that in games, especially in MMOs, often it will be the case that taking zero damage isn't possible. I've seen some pretty crazy setups in WoW over the years including Mages, Rogues, and Warlocks tanking current raid bosses. Actually at one point Warlocks became so durable they were a better tank than any of the actual tanking classes. They ended up being nerfed, but it did happen. Raiding may not be the only gameplay, but most MMOs are very combat oriented more so than even modern RPGs are. If there was no reason to bring a Rogue to group combat content that excludes them from 95% of group content in the game and very few people would ever play a Rogue as a result. People already hated it back in WoW when you had things like Paladins only being allowed to heal in group content. There was a lot of complaints from the classes capable of speccing into multiple roles because often they were only ever actually any good at one of those roles. A MMO that decided it was okay for a class to be almost worthless in a raiding environment would have to be vastly different and not have raiding as a central focus for the majority of the playerbase. It's nice that you played solo in EQ, but that's not what the majority of people playing a MMO want.[/quote]
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 24, 2016 18:34:34 GMT
Like they "learned" from the mistakes of ME3's endings? I'll believe it when I see it. They always "learn" from past mistakes by making new mistakes.
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 24, 2016 18:50:14 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> To be cynical, did Flynn learn to avoid rainbow colour endings? Unfortunately, I think he did. He sides with ME3 haters it seems. Or at least, he does what's convenient. Like when DAI was released, he called it a return to form. As if all of their stuff recently wasn't really "Bioware", until DAI. lol Personally, I'd take a the doctors and Hudson over a hundred Aaryn Flynns. Never forget
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Post by Frost on Sept 24, 2016 18:57:01 GMT
In DAI it wasn't pacing or the amount of fetch quests. It was more that they did not engage me in anyway. This. I am not a completionist and have no problem skipping a few collection quests. However, it is one thing to skip a few collection quests and another thing to want to skip every quest in each zone because the quests are not engaging. I hope that in future Bioware games they put enough resources into the side quests to make them interesting and have dialogue and some choices (even if small) in them.
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Post by bshep on Sept 24, 2016 19:08:16 GMT
What bothered me most in DAI were the cutscenes, apart from a few in the main quests most had the characters moving like robots. Sure there were a lot of fetch quests but seeing Lavellan, Cassandra, Solas and the others moving so unnatural really annoyed me.
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Post by Addictress on Sept 25, 2016 1:22:19 GMT
I am glad to see all the DAI criticism in this thread. It warms my heart.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 4:24:24 GMT
Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani: Elcor Flynn, it's been said that BioWare has learned from its mistakes, both in ME3 and DA:I ... and this learning will benefit ME:A.
Emily Wong: Elcor Flynn, our readers want to know ... how much have you learned from your past mistakes?
Elcor Flynn: Not enough.
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Post by Arcian on Sept 25, 2016 12:49:01 GMT
Like they "learned" from the mistakes of ME3's endings? I'll believe it when I see it. They always "learn" from past mistakes by making new mistakes. As is now evident by their choice to set the new game in Andromeda despite this premise making absolutely no sense.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 25, 2016 14:28:12 GMT
They always "learn" from past mistakes by making new mistakes. As is now evident by their choice to set the new game in Andromeda despite this premise making absolutely no sense. I wuoldn't say going to Andromeda 'makes no sense'. If the Reapers are a real threat it makes sense to send off a contingency plan 'just in case'. If success isn't practically assured (which the opposite is true with the Reapers) sending some people away to another galaxy makes a pretty good amount of sense to me. Personally I was hoping for a complete reboot originally thinking theres so much in the Milky Way we've never discovered or seen. But I think the whole choice for Andromeda makes the most 'sense' for a reboot while not shitting on the past trilogy. Though i think the line 'your the aliens this time' makes no damn sense. Everyones a goddamn alien to everyone else. Having NO real backup in a new galaxy though, that's something interesting. No council support, no major government support form any given race. It's as frontier as you can possibly get at this point. Literally don't have shit as backing. Tip of a non-existence spear, flyin' forward alone.
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Post by Harnette on Sept 25, 2016 14:49:57 GMT
On the topic of in world justification for leaving to Andromeda:
I think it'll have to be based on when the milky way denizens make their departure. If its after the Reaper war, that makes things difficult due to the endings but at the same time it could be something that is eventually achieved and even desired if people really want to escape the legacy of Reaper influence that was scattered around the galaxy.
I have a hard time accepting this premise if we end up leaving during the Reaper war. Its baffling to me, to have the shadow of ME3 looming behind us when the stakes are already so high. And then have everyone just be nice and calm about Andromeda without spending half their character arcs worrying about their home galaxy. It would shock my sensibilities if done so.
Leaving before ME3 could be somewhat feasible (Not necessarily from a technological point though). But, with Reapers not yet publicly recognized, there wouldn't be the pressure of the war to dictate where every galactic resource goes.
Gah, the more I think, the more I want them to just make it after ME3 and gloss over the endings nonsense as superfluous fluff solely for Shepard's journey, rather than an authentic continuation of where Mass Effect was headed.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 25, 2016 16:00:50 GMT
On the topic of in world justification for leaving to Andromeda: I think it'll have to be based on when the milky way denizens make their departure. If its after the Reaper war, that makes things difficult due to the endings but at the same time it could be something that is eventually achieved and even desired if people really want to escape the legacy of Reaper influence that was scattered around the galaxy. I have a hard time accepting this premise if we end up leaving during the Reaper war. Its baffling to me, to have the shadow of ME3 looming behind us when the stakes are already so high. And then have everyone just be nice and calm about Andromeda without spending half their character arcs worrying about their home galaxy. It would shock my sensibilities if done so. Leaving before ME3 could be somewhat feasible (Not necessarily from a technological point though). But, with Reapers not yet publicly recognized, there wouldn't be the pressure of the war to dictate where every galactic resource goes. Gah, the more I think, the more I want them to just make it after ME3 and gloss over the endings nonsense as superfluous fluff solely for Shepard's journey, rather than an authentic continuation of where Mass Effect was headed. Well it's before ME3. We know that pretty clearly. They've said it doesn't take any endings from ME3 into account and from the scenes we saw of prior to launch there was no Reaper invasion at Earth. So regardless if you'd like this to be some kinda reboot that still doesn't take place in the Milky Way it's gonna happen prior to ME3 and still be a psuedo-reboot. I think this was discussed in another thread (it's getting a little murky at this point) theres something like a 2 and a half year gap between ME1 ending and ME3 start. So we have about a 2 year-ish window for them to 'do' this project. And one could point to the Keepers issue (in ME2) as the catalyst that got the project finished and resulted in it's public debut and eventual launch. Sure new tech would have to be devised for it but 2 years you would assume in a world like Mass Effect would be enough time to figure out how to deal with the static build up. Add to all that it's been made semi-clear that the Council, and definitely Anderson/Admiral Hackett definitely believe Shepard about the Reapers it makes sense how the project could get started in the first place. As far as it being public knowledge of it's existence, I figure going under the guise it's 'for science' makes enough sense. Think of the Moon landing. There was basically 2 reasons we landed on the Moon. The Cold War and 'because science', or well, because humans like to try to do things that're hard for the sake of advancement. And as far as I'm concerned, the ARK Project fits that bill pretty well. Secret government reasoning with a different public face. If there 'is' no public face to it, and it's literally just 'The Reapers are coming ohmergerd guys' then I'll be a bit disappointed. Considering every government, including the Council, publicly was saying other shit since telling everyone the Galaxy was going to end on 1 guys word isn't really feasible.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 25, 2016 17:10:55 GMT
On the topic of in world justification for leaving to Andromeda: I think it'll have to be based on when the milky way denizens make their departure. If its after the Reaper war, that makes things difficult due to the endings but at the same time it could be something that is eventually achieved and even desired if people really want to escape the legacy of Reaper influence that was scattered around the galaxy. I have a hard time accepting this premise if we end up leaving during the Reaper war. Its baffling to me, to have the shadow of ME3 looming behind us when the stakes are already so high. And then have everyone just be nice and calm about Andromeda without spending half their character arcs worrying about their home galaxy. It would shock my sensibilities if done so. Leaving before ME3 could be somewhat feasible (Not necessarily from a technological point though). But, with Reapers not yet publicly recognized, there wouldn't be the pressure of the war to dictate where every galactic resource goes. Gah, the more I think, the more I want them to just make it after ME3 and gloss over the endings nonsense as superfluous fluff solely for Shepard's journey, rather than an authentic continuation of where Mass Effect was headed. Well it's before ME3. We know that pretty clearly. They've said it doesn't take any endings from ME3 into account and from the scenes we saw of prior to launch there was no Reaper invasion at Earth. So regardless if you'd like this to be some kinda reboot that still doesn't take place in the Milky Way it's gonna happen prior to ME3 and still be a psuedo-reboot. I think this was discussed in another thread (it's getting a little murky at this point) theres something like a 2 and a half year gap between ME1 ending and ME3 start. So we have about a 2 year-ish window for them to 'do' this project. And one could point to the Keepers issue (in ME2) as the catalyst that got the project finished and resulted in it's public debut and eventual launch. Sure new tech would have to be devised for it but 2 years you would assume in a world like Mass Effect would be enough time to figure out how to deal with the static build up. Add to all that it's been made semi-clear that the Council, and definitely Anderson/Admiral Hackett definitely believe Shepard about the Reapers it makes sense how the project could get started in the first place. As far as it being public knowledge of it's existence, I figure going under the guise it's 'for science' makes enough sense. Think of the Moon landing. There was basically 2 reasons we landed on the Moon. The Cold War and 'because science', or well, because humans like to try to do things that're hard for the sake of advancement. And as far as I'm concerned, the ARK Project fits that bill pretty well. Secret government reasoning with a different public face. If there 'is' no public face to it, and it's literally just 'The Reapers are coming ohmergerd guys' then I'll be a bit disappointed. Considering every government, including the Council, publicly was saying other shit since telling everyone the Galaxy was going to end on 1 guys word isn't really feasible. I'm less sure about the leaving before ME3 idea, as I'm not convinced that the landmass on that planet in the trailer is actually North America (It could be, but it's not nearly as definitive as people keep saying) That being said, the idea of making Andromeda an exploration mission in public and an escape from the Reapers plan in private is a pretty interesting one. Although I would think the lack of secrecy could lead to the Reapers chasing them down. That would be the point of keeping the project secret (And to justify Trilogy characters not talking about it)
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 25, 2016 17:15:21 GMT
That is part of the cinematic approach anyway, to show off more tech and facial features to add realism and agency to characters. Hopefully it pays off. Player agency is vastly more important than character agency. And they are radically different things.
Depends, I suppose, on what you mean by Player Agency. In discussing ethics, you will come up with the term Moral Agency. It's a good term because it distinguishes between those that feel guilt and those that don't. For example: If a BOA kills a person, it has done nothing morally wrong. However, a person killing another person is considered to be a heinous act. What is the difference? A murderer has a moral agency and a BOA does not. In other words, A moral agent is one who is able to make meaningful decisions about their actions, with regards to right and wrong. Player Agency, to me, is more of an abstract concept, whereas the above is easier to understand. It's easier for me to equate Moral Agency to ethics and Player Agency to... say, table top games. Thus, a Player Agency definition can be / is ( and what I think you like): A player with agency is one who is able to make meaningful decisions about their actions, with regards to the game world.
You've placed Player Agency as more important over Character Agency. However, agency can rob the player from certain behaviours. For example: Let's use the 'ole D&D with the GM. The GM prepares a "first" and "second" rooms instead of a "left" and "right" . So, whichever way the players turn, they will enter the "first" room first and the "second" only after the seeing the "first" one. About Character Agency. Basically, it's an active character making decisions that affect the story. Better yet, the plot exists based on the players' direct actions. As someone else said: Characters without agency tend to be like little paper boats bobbing down a river of your own making. They cannot steer. They cannot change the course of the river. The river is an external force that carries them along — meaning, the plot sticks its hand up the character’s cavernous bottom-hole and makes the character do things and say things in service to the plot.Those are the pros and the cons, I suppose. In the end, however, I lean towards Character Agency. Characters, after all, are the one you love or hate. As an added bonus, Character Agency allows for much better game replay.
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Adhin
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Post by Adhin on Sept 25, 2016 17:43:33 GMT
I'm less sure about the leaving before ME3 idea, as I'm not convinced that the landmass on that planet in the trailer is actually North America (It could be, but it's not nearly as definitive as people keep saying) That being said, the idea of making Andromeda an exploration mission in public and an escape from the Reapers plan in private is a pretty interesting one. Although I would think the lack of secrecy could lead to the Reapers chasing them down. That would be the point of keeping the project secret (And to justify Trilogy characters not talking about it) Yeah I can see being unsure about that being earth. I didn't immediately take it as Earth initially either. Though considering they've hinted at the project having public recruiting I find it even more difficult to assume the project existed during ME3 time period. Sides like I've said before, the end-end of ME3 isn't the only 'endings', or conclusions to that story that could have a potential impact on Andromeda. Such as weather or not the Krogans can have kids effectively or what may of happened with Quarian/Geth. If they want to avoid anything from ME3 effecting MEA. Which I'm pretty sure they do, I mean they might call on Shepard being a spectre, or getting blown up, or something back, or dealing with the collectors. But those are all large plot points that 'always happen'. It's the details I would expect them to ignore as to not take any choices into account in general. What happened with the council wont matter, since they wont be involved in Andromeda at all and all that. Anyway, point is, almost everything that happens in ME3 would have an impact on MEA so It's safer to just have it happen prior to that. Maybe it doesn't though, maybe it's a super duper extra secret project that's also kinda public and takes place during ME3 but not at the Citadel even though that's where everyone was to keep away from the Reapers? I just can't see it happening during ME3, way to many holes in that - not that BioWare hasn't poked hundreds of holes in there own shit with out noticing before though. So yeah, who knows, I just think it's unlikely regardless of if that's a shot of Earth.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 25, 2016 18:16:46 GMT
Yeah, the gutted magic, the 8 spell restriction, the terrible tactical-camera, the lack of actual tactics, the broken party commands, all added to make DA:I gameplay into a very annoying experience for me. The 8 slot restriction was a boon for me, I was used to six slot restrictions and over-relying on pause/play style mechanics too much in Origins and Dragon Age 2. At least the 8 slot restriction had me plan ahead most of the time, so I picked and choosed abilities for a fight in the field. I can't really comment on the tactical camera being terrible, I had no issues with it but I rarely used it in Inquisition, honestly.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 25, 2016 19:01:22 GMT
At least the 8 slot restriction had me plan ahead most of the time, so I picked and choosed abilities for a fight in the field. The eight power restriction was more artificial and "gamey" to me than any boss fight.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 25, 2016 19:23:15 GMT
At least the 8 slot restriction had me plan ahead most of the time, so I picked and choosed abilities for a fight in the field. The eight power restriction was more artificial and "gamey" to me than any boss fight. Really? In what way though?
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Post by Iakus on Sept 25, 2016 19:39:13 GMT
The eight power restriction was more artificial and "gamey" to me than any boss fight. Really? In what way though? Because apparently, in order to learn how to throw poisoned blades, my rogue needs to strike himself on the head repeatedly until he forgets how to parry a blow, or perform a flank attack, or throw a knockout bomb, or... You get the idea. My characters in DAO and DA2 didn't stop knowing how to do something just because they learned how to do something else.
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 25, 2016 19:48:40 GMT
the 8 slot restriction was obviously because they were aiming for the console audience how can you manage 20 skills/spells with a controller? this is for CRPGs, which DAI is not.
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Post by SofNascimento on Sept 25, 2016 19:54:46 GMT
I don't which possibility is worse: - Bioware straight up lied. - Bioware thought they were telling the truth.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 25, 2016 20:07:38 GMT
Yeah, the gutted magic, the 8 spell restriction, the terrible tactical-camera, the lack of actual tactics, the broken party commands, all added to make DA:I gameplay into a very annoying experience for me. The 8 slot restriction was a boon for me, I was used to six slot restrictions and over-relying on pause/play style mechanics too much in Origins and Dragon Age 2. At least the 8 slot restriction had me plan ahead most of the time, so I picked and choosed abilities for a fight in the field. I can't really comment on the tactical camera being terrible, I had no issues with it but I rarely used it in Inquisition, honestly.
The TAC cam on the PC is a horrible implementation. If a tac cam is implemented in MEA, I dope Flynn understands what NOT to do.... on the PC.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 25, 2016 20:13:06 GMT
I don't which possibility is worse: - Bioware straight up lied. - Bioware thought they were telling the truth.
LOL... I remember... a pc game, but you hit A to start.
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FireAndBlood
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Sept 25, 2016 20:59:27 GMT
the 8 slot restriction was obviously because they were aiming for the console audience how can you manage 20 skills/spells with a controller? this is for CRPGs, which DAI is not. DAO and DA2 had radial menus, so no it's not the fault of consoles no matter how much you want it to be.
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FireAndBlood
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 454
Prime Likes: 350
Posts: 584 Likes: 1,664
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Sept 25, 2016 21:27:37 GMT
DAO and DA2 had radial menus, so no it's not the fault of consoles no matter how much you want it to be. I don't think I have seen a radial menu that can implement the number of spells/items an extended hotbar DA:O style can contain. Can a radial menu have 20-30 skills and items in it? I find it very hard to believe. It was probably a combination between the incessant desire to "streamline" everything, and to make it easier to play with a controller. It's been years since I played either game but I'm pretty sure they can.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 25, 2016 22:26:47 GMT
Really? In what way though? Because apparently, in order to learn how to throw poisoned blades, my rogue needs to strike himself on the head repeatedly until he forgets how to parry a blow, or perform a flank attack, or throw a knockout bomb, or... You get the idea. My characters in DAO and DA2 didn't stop knowing how to do something just because they learned how to do something else. I don't get the idea at all actually. You're Rogue doesn't forget how to do any of that, instead it tries other moves for a time before switching back to something else. If you mean you should have access to all your moves at all times...sure ok. But that's only a "gamey" decision for the sake of balance of the new mechanics, over anything else. That's not a bad thing necessarily either.
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