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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 27, 2016 13:05:28 GMT
Wow I really like the idea that the public face is 'for science' or something else but the wealthy organizations behind the project (whoever they may be) secretly believed Shepard - a departure in opinion from the galactic Council and hence whoever heads the funding organizations had to construct an alternative public face. So, a wealthy private organisation which is good at hiding its true nature... So, what you're saying is:
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Post by shechinah on Sept 27, 2016 13:15:48 GMT
Wow I really like the idea that the public face is 'for science' or something else but the wealthy organizations behind the project (whoever they may be) secretly believed Shepard - a departure in opinion from the galactic Council and hence whoever heads the funding organizations had to construct an alternative public face. So, a wealthy private organisation which is good at hiding its true nature... So, what you're saying is: Nah, Cerberus is terrible at hiding: it slaps its logo on everything and most of its work backfires.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 27, 2016 13:50:51 GMT
So, a wealthy private organisation which is good at hiding its true nature... So, what you're saying is: Nah, Cerberus is terrible at hiding: it slaps its logo on everything and most of its work backfires. Heh, yeah that whole "stick the logo of our secret organisation on everything from the cafeteria meal trays to spaceships" thing always bugged me. I tend to space magic it away by pretending it's the logo of a front company, probably Cord-Hislop as they actually manufacture spaceships and has a security force.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 27, 2016 15:08:42 GMT
Nah, Cerberus is terrible at hiding: it slaps its logo on everything and most of its work backfires. Heh, yeah that whole "stick the logo of our secret organisation on everything from the cafeteria meal trays to spaceships" thing always bugged me. I tend to space magic it away by pretending it's the logo of a front company, probably Cord-Hislop as they actually manufacture spaceships and has a security force. I think it's just branding we see in countless forms of media. A real shadow organization wouldn't act like Cerberus anyway.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 27, 2016 16:31:58 GMT
Cerberus sends their own ship to Andromeda. Ryder shows up and sees Cerberus logos all over the place. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Cerberus is mentioned in a line of dialogue or in the codex
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 27, 2016 16:51:16 GMT
So it turns out placing shallow MMO quests with no cutscenes or character development as 80% of the content of your singleplayer choice based rpg is a bad idea? I'm shocked Mr Flynn. Shocked. And an rpg with no proper city hub? What were you even thinking Bioware. It's not like Bioware has had twenty years of experience in the industry to learn this or anything. In no way shape or form can I agree with the bolded part. If a city hub is appropriate it should be there, if not it shouldn't.
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Post by ClarkKent on Sept 27, 2016 18:02:33 GMT
So it turns out placing shallow MMO quests with no cutscenes or character development as 80% of the content of your singleplayer choice based rpg is a bad idea? I'm shocked Mr Flynn. Shocked. And an rpg with no proper city hub? What were you even thinking Bioware. It's not like Bioware has had twenty years of experience in the industry to learn this or anything. In no way shape or form can I agree with the bolded part. If a city hub is appropriate it should be there, if not it shouldn't. It most certainly was appropriate in this case, though. I can't think of too many rpgs that don't have some sort of central settlement hub though. Excluding Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 27, 2016 18:23:32 GMT
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Cerberus is mentioned in a line of dialogue or in the codex Cerberus Agent: "Ryder's last flight out, the synth...artificial person malfunctioned-" Ryder: "Malfunctioned!?" Cerberus Agent: "-malfunctioned. There were some problems, and a few...deaths were involved"
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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 27, 2016 18:28:19 GMT
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Cerberus is mentioned in a line of dialogue or in the codex Cerberus Agent: "Ryder's last flight out, the synth...artificial person malfunctioned-" Ryder: "Malfunctioned!?" Cerberus Agent: "-malfunctioned. There were some problems, and a few...deaths were involved" Synth happens. Incidentally, I got my hands on a replica Nostromo cap (as well as a Turian cruiser model) this past weekend. Never been happier with a battered old ball cap.
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 27, 2016 18:36:37 GMT
In no way shape or form can I agree with the bolded part. If a city hub is appropriate it should be there, if not it shouldn't. It most certainly was appropriate in this case, though. I can't think of too many rpgs that don't have some sort of central settlement hub though. Excluding Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes. Your comment comes off as , I like city hubs and what they can being, there fore all game should have them. There could be a hundred good reasons whey there is not going to be any in this particular games.
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Post by Addictress on Sept 27, 2016 22:52:56 GMT
Wow I really like the idea that the public face is 'for science' or something else but the wealthy organizations behind the project (whoever they may be) secretly believed Shepard - a departure in opinion from the galactic Council and hence whoever heads the funding organizations had to construct an alternative public face. So, a wealthy private organisation which is good at hiding its true nature... So, what you're saying is: Except instead of being morally dubious (Cerberus was known for terrorism and the Illusive Man has questionable ethics), it would instead have a heart of gold. A truly progressive, nice chap at the center, who believed in Shepard, but has to act cold, skeptical, and tough like a corporation on the outside.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 28, 2016 3:06:34 GMT
In no way shape or form can I agree with the bolded part. If a city hub is appropriate it should be there, if not it shouldn't. It most certainly was appropriate in this case, though. I can't think of too many rpgs that don't have some sort of central settlement hub though. Excluding Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes. Baldur's Gate? You didn't even have a major city hub in the first game, just a few smaller towns and a LONG time before you get into Baldur's Gate itself.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 28, 2016 3:39:31 GMT
After reading the article, it sounds like the ME team has learned some lessions about the poor sidequest structure in DA:I. However, I still have two concerns:
1) The Inquisitor didn't have a good reason to be out doing inane tasks like picking flowers. In the case of ME:A, Ryder is supposed to be more green around the edges, less experienced. We could still be subject to an overabundance of fetch quests to "prove our worth." I enjoy some of those styles of quests (even the blanket and ram meat quests in the Hinterlands,) but there is still enough room for a lot of monotony.
I dread the rumor that there will be a War Table-like mechanic in ME:A. I know some liked that system, but it can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. Double for the Requisition Tables.
2) The default AI of the companions was my second biggest complaint about DA:I and my number one gameplay issue. In previous DA games, and in the MET, the companions were usually decent about taking cover or staying flanked. In DA:I, I had to constantly move my rogues and mages out of the direct line of dragon's breath. They'd run up to it without hesitation and would run back within a minute of me moving them. ME has never used a tactics system for the squadmates, but I hope they don't make them so dumb that they seem suicidal.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 28, 2016 3:48:41 GMT
Natashina : On the subject of AI there's a lot less to deal with in Mass Effect thankfully. It is, at its base a cover shooter. DAI requires a bit more complex stuff ultimately. Hell I just had power useage off in every ME game for squadies and they just took cover and shot till I needed them to do a thing. That... that doesn't work in a Dragon Age game. I mean you 'can' do that but it'll result in stuff taking a very, very long time to go down or your spending all your time in the pause menu. Games very much based around consistent skill use for actual damage. Mass Effect it's mostly guns, or at least you can get buy almost entirely on gun useage.
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Post by Addictress on Sept 28, 2016 3:53:39 GMT
Idk, I freaking loved DA2 companion AI. Presets! Presets, presets, presets, ladies and gentlemen.
FUCKING PRESETS
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 28, 2016 6:16:44 GMT
Cerberus sends their own ship to Andromeda. Ryder shows up and sees Cerberus logos all over the place. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Cerberus is mentioned in a line of dialogue or in the codex
Illusive Man had his proverbial fingers in many pies. It would not surprise me if he knew all about the ARKs. Hell, his organization may have providing some funding for the ARKCON project and took this opportunity to construct his own ARK. So, what would be his motive to go to Andromeda? I know Cerberus is a human survivalist para-military organization. Is it that simple? However, I can't see Bio introducing Cerberus as part of the critical story path. They keep telling us it's a new story, new chars, new place.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 28, 2016 6:19:59 GMT
Snip ME has never used a tactics system for the squadmates, but I hope they don't make them so dumb that they seem suicidal.
Were they ever helpful? I was too busy shooting to notice
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Post by Natashina on Sept 28, 2016 6:23:47 GMT
Here's something that I'm also worried about for ME:A. The integration of EU and the game itself. BioWare has been a little shaky about that over the years and I think it's getting worse. DA:O You had to either read the book or recruit Loghain to learn he's a much more complex antagonist than he's shown to be in during most of the game itself. He has some good motivations that are only lightly touched upon during the main game, and a bit more in the Return to Ostagar DLC ME1: Just fine in that regard. The EU is nice to have, but I never felt like I had to read it to understand what was going on. DA2: Same as above. ME2: Here's where it happens again. It's only with the LotSB DLC. In order to really understand the full details of what happened and why Feron is so important to Liara, you need to read the comics. It isn't too bad here, but it was still annoying as a new player. ME3: Kai Leng. No matter what he was intended to be, the character we got had to have the EU in order to explain why he was so badass. Bonus points for a character change so drastic that the EU was invalidated. DA:I: Okay, this is where it was the worst. The entiredly of the Orlais storyline, especially Wicked Hearts Wicked Minds, wasn't really even touched upon in the game at all. The player had to read the Masked Empire, otherwise the story was left mainly to codex and tiny references. I have only ever bought Dragon Age supplementary materials. I was glad I read Asunder and the Masked Empire before playing DA:I, otherwise I would have lost crucial story context. In this case, why should the player give a toss about the story decision? It's not like the game has any reason to motivate them other than, "Here's a cool looking quest chain, because it's Orlais and the player should see a ball." One of the things I genuinely despise from game companies is when I feel like I have to read their outside material. It's supposed to be optional, not damned near required to figure out what is going on. With this new ME:A book that's coming out, I hope that it isn't required in order to get large parts of the story or the characters. Edit Sartoz I think they do help, but my point was is that they take cover and can at least take some bullets for Shep. They don't see a krogan charging towards them and go try to melee it. Or run up to Harbinger and start punching his Collector body in the face. I watched Solas and Varric try to tank dragons repeatedly. I didn't see my mages and rogues trying to tank frigging dragons in previous DA games. So as long as the AI doesn't get completely stupid in ME:A like it did in DA:I, I'll be happy.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 28, 2016 8:36:05 GMT
I dread the rumor that there will be a War Table-like mechanic in ME:A. I know some liked that system, but it can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. Double for the Requisition Tables. I scummed the hell out of the war table by changing the clock on my computer, but from one of the early leaks it seemed like it was something they'd do a bit differently, in that you could either assign the "war table" missions to the AI, or you could play it as a multiplayer mission. If they did that, I'd be pleased as all hell.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 28, 2016 8:47:00 GMT
I used the Instant War Table mod on the PC version myself. I think my main issue is that the WT had some interesting quests that would have made sense for the Quizzy to be involved with. Instead, my dwarf was running her stumpy butt all over looking for crafting goods. Also, one of the chains can affect the world state. A few missteps or lack of a guide and there go the rest of the Wardens in that part of the world. If they do something like a WT, I'd hope that they learned from DA:I and saved quests that can affect a world state for cutscenes and dialogue choices. All of this and it still isn't my number one complaint about DA:I. I honestly really enjoyed the game quite a bit, but man...it's got some serious gameplay design problems imho. By the way, I like your idea for using something like the War Table for MP. That sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 28, 2016 15:14:12 GMT
It most certainly was appropriate in this case, though. I can't think of too many rpgs that don't have some sort of central settlement hub though. Excluding Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes. Baldur's Gate? You didn't even have a major city hub in the first game, just a few smaller towns and a LONG time before you get into Baldur's Gate itself. Nashkel and Beregost may have been small towns, but they functioned pretty well as hubs, though. I mean, Beregost had like three inns, a smithy, and access to other shops, and access to the Temple of Lathander. And you could turn in bandit scalps for cash to the Flaming Fist officer.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 28, 2016 15:15:41 GMT
After reading the article, it sounds like the ME team has learned some lessions about the poor sidequest structure in DA:I. However, I still have two concerns: 1) The Inquisitor didn't have a good reason to be out doing inane tasks like picking flowers. In the case of ME:A, Ryder is supposed to be more green around the edges, less experienced. We could still be subject to an overabundance of fetch quests to "prove our worth." I enjoy some of those styles of quests (even the blanket and ram meat quests in the Hinterlands,) but there is still enough room for a lot of monotony. I dread the rumor that there will be a War Table-like mechanic in ME:A. I know some liked that system, but it can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. Double for the Requisition Tables. 2) The default AI of the companions was my second biggest complaint about DA:I and my number one gameplay issue. In previous DA games, and in the MET, the companions were usually decent about taking cover or staying flanked. In DA:I, I had to constantly move my rogues and mages out of the direct line of dragon's breath. They'd run up to it without hesitation and would run back within a minute of me moving them. ME has never used a tactics system for the squadmates, but I hope they don't make them so dumb that they seem suicidal. 1) Agreed the head of the Inquisition shouldn't have to go around picking flowers. But I'll take War Table missions over "Creeper Shepard listening in on conversations" any time. 2) I miss the tactics menu
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Post by Adhin on Sept 28, 2016 19:32:15 GMT
Baldur's Gate? You didn't even have a major city hub in the first game, just a few smaller towns and a LONG time before you get into Baldur's Gate itself. Nashkel and Beregost may have been small towns, but they functioned pretty well as hubs, though. I mean, Beregost had like three inns, a smithy, and access to other shops, and access to the Temple of Lathander. And you could turn in bandit scalps for cash to the Flaming Fist officer. Yeah, I wouldn't say City as the defining feature, that's just the theme of a place really (and means it needs to be huge to make sense). But the lack of any central 'questing hubs' in DAI is the biggest blow to feeling like an adventure. Which I guess isn't what they where going for, but that is WHY we play these games. I feel like they lost sight of that in an attempt to make this game bigger and more then the last. Which is an issue a lot of games have. Often times there to busy trying to figure out how to make it bigger and crazier narratively that they forget they don't have to do that and doing so often leads to it being just less impactful. As silly of a comparison as this is, CoD is a good example of that getting out of hand. CoD4 had a bunch of good luls in the story that made all the other moments that did get crazy seem more intense for it. Hell some of there lulls 'where' intense but in a more suspenseful manner. CoD4 was a hell of a ride. MW2 on the other hand lacked all of that in there bid to go bigger, and ultimately just made a more stale world war style game in modern-ish times. And only really good thing about MW3 was that it ended that stupid story of trench warfare at the white house by russians with zero world backing. Most fucking implausible story I've ever seen lol. Sadly after Trespasser the next game isn't gonna be any less crazy, but if we're lucky our character is more of an adventurer and less of a huge political religious and political figure cause fuck BOTH of those things and fuck them being combined.
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August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 28, 2016 20:09:11 GMT
After reading the article, it sounds like the ME team has learned some lessions about the poor sidequest structure in DA:I. However, I still have two concerns: 1) The Inquisitor didn't have a good reason to be out doing inane tasks like picking flowers. In the case of ME:A, Ryder is supposed to be more green around the edges, less experienced. We could still be subject to an overabundance of fetch quests to "prove our worth." I enjoy some of those styles of quests (even the blanket and ram meat quests in the Hinterlands,) but there is still enough room for a lot of monotony. I dread the rumor that there will be a War Table-like mechanic in ME:A. I know some liked that system, but it can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. Double for the Requisition Tables. 2) The default AI of the companions was my second biggest complaint about DA:I and my number one gameplay issue. In previous DA games, and in the MET, the companions were usually decent about taking cover or staying flanked. In DA:I, I had to constantly move my rogues and mages out of the direct line of dragon's breath. They'd run up to it without hesitation and would run back within a minute of me moving them. ME has never used a tactics system for the squadmates, but I hope they don't make them so dumb that they seem suicidal. 1) Agreed the head of the Inquisition shouldn't have to go around picking flowers. But I'll take War Table missions over "Creeper Shepard listening in on conversations" any time. 2) I miss the tactics menu °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Yes, me too.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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4,072
linksocarina
Teaching Mode Activated
3,186
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 28, 2016 22:54:50 GMT
Baldur's Gate? You didn't even have a major city hub in the first game, just a few smaller towns and a LONG time before you get into Baldur's Gate itself. Nashkel and Beregost may have been small towns, but they functioned pretty well as hubs, though. I mean, Beregost had like three inns, a smithy, and access to other shops, and access to the Temple of Lathander. And you could turn in bandit scalps for cash to the Flaming Fist officer. I guess, although truth be told I never spent a lot of time in Beregost or Nashkel to really consider them hubs. I did turn in scalps and such but I rarely stayed in town for long. A hub to me is a city you stay in and take in all sights, quests and what not. The Citadel was a big hub, Skyhold was a hub. Beregost...just another map to me. Baldur's Gate II had a big hub though. I liked that idea more, the sort of city escapades before we chased Irenicus.
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