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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 18:06:54 GMT
M-92 Mantis: Garbage but it's your starting sniper so that's understandable. Heresy Everything it can do, Widow can do better. With style.  Krysae Sniper Rifle: I've tried different builds to make this thing shine like the GE w/3 Jump Overload and Incin ammo. Still don't like it. Had a bit too hard of a fall through that ol' nerf tree I guess. (Didn't try it when it was OP to be fair though so it's conjecture on my part.) Krysae with geth infiltrator and disruptor ammo Touché, I didn't end my post with... inb4 gi gi gi But really you can slap anything on a GI and say it does great. ^Good with the QMI too (no cooldown with Arc grenades = 1 fire explosion / tech burst after each shot). Shines mostly versus Cerberus and Geth though. Actually dunno if I've tried the QMI. Tried the QME with it under the same principle. (Albeit without TC to boost the dmg significantly.) The problem is more the RoF of it. I prefer CQC in ME3MP; the slow refire time usually dampens the pace I wind up at. I like weapons with a fast reaction time. |
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Post by Lvca on Sept 3, 2017 18:34:27 GMT
Everything it can do, Widow can do better. With style. That's not the same as it being garbage. A gun you can easily use in plat and works very well can't be garbage. A gun that sounds  awesome and brings all the trilogy feels can't be garbage. And it's actually better than the widow on a Tech burst concussive shot spam HSol build I use, and I bet it would be better on other casters like engineers if you like to snipe on those. So not only it's not garbage, but also the Widow can't do everything better, and it's definitely not more stylish . |
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Post by mylkoo on Sept 3, 2017 18:41:04 GMT
Juggernaut + Widow = Zen
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 18:59:01 GMT
Everything it can do, Widow can do better. With style. That's not the same as it being garbage. A gun you can easily use in plat and works very well can't be garbage. A gun that sounds awesome and brings all the trilogy feels can't be garbage. And it's actually better than the widow on a Tech burst concussive shot spam HSol build I use, and I bet it would be better on other casters like engineers if you like to snipe on those. So not only it's not garbage, but also the Widow can't do everything better, and it's definitely not more stylish . I wouldn't say you can easily use it in plat for starters. You could as easily say that about the shuriken after watching the 4 Volus/Shuriken match. The reality is, there are much better options. Valiant for casters is amazeballs. You can't tell me truthfully on plat with one person playing identical kits in identical situations that they'd do better with the Mantis than BW/Jav/Val/CSR and even Widow. The HSol is a defunct argument, as it has better options anyways. Also not my favourite kit/combo although I do like the fast pacing of it. The only thing it reminds me of involving the trilogy is the relief I have at ditching it.  If you like the hipster-quality of using a below-average weapon sure. There are many on this board that seem to love that style and argue it like truth without really seeing what they are arguing. But definitely not me. I stand by "garbage". I'm not saying that comparing the weapon to nothing; it's failing because it doesn't stand up to it's peers. (Now if we were talking about guns in the same card rarity that might change things though.)
In a rare generous mood I will say this, I'd take it over the Incisor or Raptor.  I think... and it's definitely not more stylish . Now I know you are partaking of the pants that are crazy!   *** Game is reinstalled. Girlfriend is going out tonight with family so I might have to scrape somea lot of rust off with a few plat games. Time to start praying to the lobby gods. What's a good sacrifice these days? |
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Post by Arkhne on Sept 3, 2017 23:47:18 GMT
^^Clearly an unbeliever with a stubborn head.
If YOU can't do well with a gun, that doesn't mean the gun is bad. The Mantis is amazing, and plat-viable out of the box. Its weight is absurdly low for its capabilities. On an Infiltrator, weight doesn't matter, but if you'd taken the time to read the posts you were so tactfully ignoring, Engineers were specifically mentioned, perhaps you've been away too long to remember that the priming window for Tech is EXTREMELY tight, even under normal circumstances, most Engineers will be psuedo-soldiers with the Widow, but can still rock as full-time Engineers with a gun that packs a huge punch if they take the Mantis.
You want to ignore TECH EXPLOSION based characters because they completely defeat your arguement, and you want to call the gun bad because you don't like it. I don't like the Harrier, but that doesn't mean its bad. I don't like the Adas, but it's a great primer. The Mantis is a great gun with SUPERB availability, for a VERY long time, it WILL be THE best Sniper a player can have, even for Infiltrators. And even when the Widow gets a few levels, Mantis is STILL better for any class that cares about cooldowns, a situation in which it dominates even the Valiant (my personal favourite) until the Valiant gets to high levels, which lets face it, could take upwards of 1,000 hours.
You're using "style" as an "objective point" based on your "subjective view", the world just doesn't work that way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 0:48:37 GMT
The Mantis is amazing, and plat-viable out of the box. Its weight is absurdly low for its capabilities. On an Infiltrator, weight doesn't matter, but if you'd taken the time to read the posts you were so tactfully ignoring, Engineers were specifically mentioned, perhaps you've been away too long to remember that the priming window for Tech is EXTREMELY tight, even under normal circumstances, most Engineers will be psuedo-soldiers with the Widow, but can still rock as full-time Engineers with a gun that packs a huge punch if they take the Widow. You want to ignore TECH EXPLOSION based characters because they completely defeat your arguement, and you want to call the gun bad because you don't like it. I don't like the Harrier, but that doesn't mean its bad. I don't like the Adas, but it's a great primer. The Mantis is a great gun with SUPERB availability, for a VERY long time, it WILL be THE best Sniper a player can have, even for Infiltrators. And even when the Widow gets a few levels, Mantis is STILL better for any class that cares about cooldowns, a situation in which it dominates even the Valiant (my personal favourite) until the Valiant gets to high levels, which lets face it, could take upwards of 1,000 hours. You're using "style" as an "objective point" based on your "subjective view", the world just doesn't work that way. First off, I prefaced with IMHO. So what you are getting is exactly my opinion on it. What I perceive to be garbage is garbage. I've given every kit, every gun, a fair chance numerous times over the years. Secondly. "If YOU can't do well with a gun, that doesn't mean the gun is bad." Just patently untrue. Also pretty much kills any chance I have of reading the rest of your post seriously. ... You go on to talk about how it's availability is nice and I will say I was talking from a maxed manifest standpoint; which is a fairly easy assumption given the poll. So apples meet oranges there, and for all I remember you could very well be right. I haven't restarted ME3MP since the beginning. But I doubt this heavily. "The Mantis is a great gun with SUPERB availability, for a VERY long time, it WILL be THE best Sniper a player can have, even for Infiltrators." I moved on from it pretty quickly and did better. That's an aside though since again, I'm assuming everything at max. (Maybe someone should start a thread for best leveling weapons?) "You want to ignore TECH EXPLOSION based characters" Now yer making stuff up. I said one kit, which I have extensively tried. (The HSol Conc Build) which ties into making an insulated argument like, "Widow gets a few levels, Mantis is STILL better for any class that cares about cooldowns" I'm weighing it against all snipers. Not one thing. There are better options all over the place. If you want an insulated comparison I would never ever give a Mantis to someone brand new to the game when I could give them virtually anything else. Maybe you think the gun is good because you like it just as much as I think it's garbage because I don't like it? You aren't really coming up with empirical evidence. The thing is, I don't really expect you too... (Again, what do I start my sniper rifle post with?... "IMHO↓") *** To put this plainly, you put words in my mouth, make negative assumptions based on the words you perceive me saying, and are generally hostile when I'm being flippant instead of throwing some fun shit back. You show this by so clearly missing me arguing something like "style". OFC it's bloody subjective! I'm arguing STYLE with someone lol. Maybe take my posts with 50% less seriousness or something. If I'm resorting to gifs to prove something is stylish I'm probably not taking myself pretty seriously anymore. (Please note Avatar name change.) You seem so stuck on proving me wrong you've completely missed that I'm arguing a make-believe gun on the internet. I actually can accept being wrong and having the Mantis magically proven to be not garbage. It happened with the Claymore. I don't think you were around when I got plat-worthy in this game. I tried everything anyone would toss at me, fairly. (Except my first vowlingball match on plat, that was anything by fair.) At this point, I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not garbage except trying a build I already know I don't like like and other peoples opinions. Which is fine, but what you call stubborn I call awaiting Mantis gifs or science drudged from the Resource Library and Cyonan's spreadsheets. (I can imagine which one will come first.) The best part is? If someone gives a good enough reason that isn't a build I already know I don't enjoy? I'll probably try it. |
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Post by Lvca on Sept 4, 2017 2:51:16 GMT
That's not the same as it being garbage. A gun you can easily use in plat and works very well can't be garbage. A gun that sounds awesome and brings all the trilogy feels can't be garbage. And it's actually better than the widow on a Tech burst concussive shot spam HSol build I use, and I bet it would be better on other casters like engineers if you like to snipe on those. So not only it's not garbage, but also the Widow can't do everything better, and it's definitely not more stylish . I wouldn't say you can easily use it in plat for starters. You could as easily say that about the shuriken after watching the 4 Volus/Shuriken match. The reality is, there are much better options. Valiant for casters is amazeballs. You can't tell me truthfully on plat with one person playing identical kits in identical situations that they'd do better with the Mantis than BW/Jav/Val/CSR and even Widow. The HSol is a defunct argument, as it has better options anyways. Also not my favourite kit/combo although I do like the fast pacing of it. The only thing it reminds me of involving the trilogy is the relief I have at ditching it. If you like the hipster-quality of using a below-average weapon sure. There are many on this board that seem to love that style and argue it like truth without really seeing what they are arguing. But definitely not me. I stand by "garbage". I'm not saying that comparing the weapon to nothing; it's failing because it doesn't stand up to it's peers. (Now if we were talking about guns in the same card rarity that might change things though.)
In a rare generous mood I will say this, I'd take it over the Incisor or Raptor. I think... Yes I can, but only vs the Widow, Javelin and CSR. Me. On my Tech Burst HSol build, which is not particularly fast paced, more like relaxing actually. Mantis shot strips shields and primes, concussive shot detonates tech burst, kills every mook and phantoms (dragoons survive) plus you reload hide and CC nearby enemies. After every shot. If they somehow survive you have another shot on the ready before they recover, and grenades. The fast cooldown lets you use CS to stagger before shooting or line up shots. No adrenaline rush or only 3 points for emergency reloads. It has more ammo than both the Javelin and Widow while being much lighter, which enables this playstyle, and the TTK is exactly the same on the enemy units you should be targeting anyway. It has infinite range, unlike the CSR (which is not as good without Incendiary or Warp). It just works great. This is not about better options for a kit or whatever. I'm telling you there are builds in which the Mantis is the best Single Shot Sniper Rifle option, on every difficulty. I use one on the regular, there a probably more. You could just forget about them and use reegar or blackwidow on everything, but that's not the point. And yes, you can easily use it on plat. Pick an infiltrator and go kill things, it's that simple. You don't need armor piercing mods cause its not very affected by armor damage reduction, unlike the rest of commons, uncommons and many rares. It still does more than decent damage thanks to cloak even if you don't bring any consumable. You could even use it on combo classes thanks to the light weight. It's not the best gun, clearly, it's average or slightly underaverage if you want to consider it so, but it's not garbage. Not even when compared to the rest of sniper rifles. and it's definitely not more stylish . Now I know you are partaking of the pants that are crazy! -pics- I'd compare the M98-Widow to a Hummer. Not the kind of vehicle I'd call stylish, while it does look impressive. The Mantis is amazing, and plat-viable out of the box. Its weight is absurdly low for its capabilities. On an Infiltrator, weight doesn't matter, but if you'd taken the time to read the posts you were so tactfully ignoring, Engineers were specifically mentioned, perhaps you've been away too long to remember that the priming window for Tech is EXTREMELY tight, even under normal circumstances, most Engineers will be psuedo-soldiers with the Widow, but can still rock as full-time Engineers with a gun that packs a huge punch if they take the Widow. You want to ignore TECH EXPLOSION based characters because they completely defeat your arguement, and you want to call the gun bad because you don't like it. I don't like the Harrier, but that doesn't mean its bad. I don't like the Adas, but it's a great primer. The Mantis is a great gun with SUPERB availability, for a VERY long time, it WILL be THE best Sniper a player can have, even for Infiltrators. And even when the Widow gets a few levels, Mantis is STILL better for any class that cares about cooldowns, a situation in which it dominates even the Valiant (my personal favourite) until the Valiant gets to high levels, which lets face it, could take upwards of 1,000 hours. You're using "style" as an "objective point" based on your "subjective view", the world just doesn't work that way. First off, I prefaced with IMHO. So what you are getting is exactly my opinion on it. What I perceive to be garbage is garbage. I've given every kit, every gun, a fair chance numerous times over the years. Secondly. "If YOU can't do well with a gun, that doesn't mean the gun is bad." Just patently untrue. Also pretty much kills any chance I have of reading the rest of your post seriously. ... You go on to talk about how it's availability is nice and I will say I was talking from a maxed manifest standpoint; which is a fairly easy assumption given the poll. So apples meet oranges there, and for all I remember you could very well be right. I haven't restarted ME3MP since the beginning. But I doubt this heavily. "The Mantis is a great gun with SUPERB availability, for a VERY long time, it WILL be THE best Sniper a player can have, even for Infiltrators." I moved on from it pretty quickly and did better. That's an aside though since again, I'm assuming everything at max. (Maybe someone should start a thread for best leveling weapons?) "You want to ignore TECH EXPLOSION based characters" Now yer making stuff up. I said one kit, which I have extensively tried. (The HSol Conc Build) which ties into making an insulated argument like, "Widow gets a few levels, Mantis is STILL better for any class that cares about cooldowns" I'm weighing it against all snipers. Not one thing. There are better options all over the place. If you want an insulated comparison I would never ever give a Mantis to someone brand new to the game when I could give them virtually anything else. Maybe you think the gun is good because you like it just as much as I think it's garbage because I don't like it? You aren't really coming up with empirical evidence. The thing is, I don't really expect you too... (Again, what do I start my sniper rifle post with?... "IMHO↓") *** To put this plainly, you put words in my mouth, make negative assumptions based on the words you perceive me saying, and are generally hostile when I'm being flippant instead of throwing some fun shit back. You show this by so clearly missing me arguing something like "style". OFC it's bloody subjective! I'm arguing STYLE with someone lol. Maybe take my posts with 50% less seriousness or something. If I'm resorting to gifs to prove something is stylish I'm probably not taking myself pretty seriously anymore. (Please note Avatar name change.) You seem so stuck on proving me wrong you've completely missed that I'm arguing a make-believe gun on the internet. I actually can accept being wrong and having the Mantis magically proven to be not garbage. It happened with the Claymore. I don't think you were around when I got plat-worthy in this game. I tried everything anyone would toss at me, fairly. (Except my first vowlingball match on plat, that was anything by fair.) At this point, I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not garbage except trying a build I already know I don't like like and other peoples opinions. Which is fine, but what you call stubborn I call awaiting Mantis gifs or science drudged from the Resource Library and Cyonan's spreadsheets. (I can imagine which one will come first.) The best part is? If someone gives a good enough reason that isn't a build I already know I don't enjoy? I'll probably try it. From this answer I extract that any gun you don't find optimal or you don't like in a build becomes automatically garbage, but probably i'm oversimplifying (maybe a bit intentionally  ). Personally, i find that kind of thought limited. I don't like the Arc Pistol, but I know it's not garbage. And i'll add that a gun not being optimal doesn't make it garbage either. There's a whole spectrum between optimal and garbage. The mantis is there for me, and I even think it's slightly above average. I cba to dig through spreadsheets but i'll assure you (just tested it) that on the GE with this build in both cases (Mantis and Widow) you need the same amount of shots to kill every mook in plat: 1 headshot for unshielded and for shielded ones either overload+HS or bodyshot+HS or 2 HS (two bodyshots for rocket troopers). You can't kill any shielded mook with a single headshot. There's a bit of a exception with the engineers, you can kill those with 2 bodyhots on both, but you have to hit the turret with the Mantis. Phantoms die in both cases with Overload+Headshot+Headshot. In this particular case you can argue the Mantis is actually better, as it lets you spam overload which makes sniping much easier. It's true that the widow will make more damage against bosses, although I don't know if the extra tech bursts on the mantis can compensate for that. My point is, the Mantis is not nearly as bad as you think it is, to the point of being comparable to the Widow in many circumstances. Edit: gameplay of Mantis GE. Recording ends when host quits on wave 10. (Still uploading when I posted) Edit 2: Build is not exactly the same I tested above, Hunter Mode is 4B 5B (not sniper optimized) and I'm using Assault Loadout instead of Sniper Amp |
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Post by Arkhne on Sept 4, 2017 11:50:46 GMT
I'm sure I'm not dreaming about unlocking the Geth Engineer last night, I think I need to go PUGging with the Mantis. Damn you Lvca and your video  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 19:12:09 GMT
I was pretty neutral in this debate while reading it, so I tested again the mantis a few hours ago to get my own opinion. I played a gold game with the QFI and completed 2/3 of the challenge points of the weapon (so that's 93k with the Mantis only). Admittedly PUGs weren't very good but that's still a solid performance I think. To be honest, I found that, for a common weapon, this gun is amazing. I think it's better than the uncommon sniper rifles and even better than some of the rares. It consistently kills unshielded mooks with a cloaked body shot and shielded ones with a headshot, reloads very fast and doesn't weight much, what can be a factor on other classes.
The ultra-rares sniper rifles are logically all better than the Mantis but I would definitely not call it a garbage weapon, not even a bad one.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 6, 2017 1:30:36 GMT
If a level 1 SI can carry a gold PuG off-host with a Mantis stacking AP mod with HVB, and curry the day, the gun is not garbage. It is a thing of beauty. You can double mail-slot two Guardians with a Common weapon. You can one-shot Gold Phantoms after a cloaked ED. You can triple-hit all the things that have wacky hitboxes. As mentioned, it is much lighter than Widow, so can be used by all the classes to fine effect. ...  Mantis |
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 6, 2017 3:20:48 GMT
I was pretty neutral in this debate while reading it, so I tested again the mantis a few hours ago to get my own opinion. I played a gold game with the QFI and completed 2/3 of the challenge points of the weapon (so that's 93k with the Mantis only). Admittedly PUGs weren't very good but that's still a solid performance I think. To be honest, I found that, for a common weapon, this gun is amazing. I think it's better than the uncommon sniper rifles and even better than some of the rares. It consistently kills unshielded mmoks with a cloaked body shot and shielded ones with a headshot, reloads very fast and doesn't weight much, what can be a factor on other classes. The ultra-rares sniper rifles are logically all better than the Mantis but I would definitely not call it a garbage weapon, not even a bad one. Yeah the Mantis is really really amazingly awesome for its rarity- its probably the 2nd best rare SR, and its not even a rare. But for a bunch of me3 fanatics with maxed manifests (so rarity doesn't really matter), there's no excuse for the Mantis to be tied with the Javelin. I mean c'mon, its the Javelin. Just listen to it. Such disappoint, BSN I am so pls. Oh and the Widow is the most stylish. That thing is fucking beautiful. I've got like 3/4 of an erection right now just thinking about it. But the Javelin is still better. That sound |
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Post by K_O_513 on Sept 6, 2017 3:39:15 GMT
javelin because I've made some sick-ass beats using its ramp up sound
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Post by Cerbe "R" Us on Sept 6, 2017 8:55:06 GMT
javelin because I've made some sick-ass beats using its ramp up sound Then the real question is: why don't you share some of that Gethstep? |
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Post by Alfonsedode on Sept 6, 2017 9:41:21 GMT
I should nt come here, now I wanna play mantis, speedrun with fury, huntress, collector adept... So many stuff to try or try again ! and no time And a new DLC c"ming !
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Post by Arkhne on Sept 6, 2017 12:52:10 GMT
I should nt come here, now I wanna play mantis, speedrun with fury, huntress, collector adept... So many stuff to try or try again ! and no time And a new DLC c"ming !
Think of all the fun you could have with a Krogan buddy saying "HAHA, Headshot!" "MRWAHAHAHA", you should totally do it. |
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Post by Deerber on Sept 6, 2017 13:57:49 GMT
I should nt come here, now I wanna play mantis, speedrun with fury, huntress, collector adept... So many stuff to try or try again ! and no time And a new DLC c"ming !
I know, right?! I feel exactly the same now, dammit! Anyway, on topic, that vorcha over there ( ) expressed my feelings exactly. Javelin is , Widow is super stilish and the Mantis is a decent gun, which becomes pretty damn amazing when you take the rarity into consideration. |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 6, 2017 14:13:26 GMT
Oh and the Widow is the most stylish. That thing is fucking beautiful. I've got like 3/4 of an erection right now just thinking about it.  |
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Post by Alfonsedode on Sept 6, 2017 14:14:11 GMT
still, kishock more fun, csr more original, widow more stylish all with better dippppiiis (3 rares on 4)
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Post by XCPTNL on Sept 6, 2017 14:29:53 GMT
Overall usefulness and versatility: Black Widow
Style and sound: Javelin
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 6, 2017 19:51:22 GMT
Bang for buck - Mantis no doubt.
For the aimers - Valiant.
For the lagging - Indra.
For the Full Metal Jacket feel - M98 Widow
For the scorewhore - Black Widow
For the dancefloor - Javelin
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inherit
845
0
5,666
Arkhne
1,146
August 2016
arkhne
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Arkhne on Sept 6, 2017 21:23:37 GMT
Bang for buck - Mantis no doubt. For the aimers - Valiant. For the lagging - Indra. For the Full Metal Jacket feel - M98 Widow For the scorewhore - Black Widow For the dancefloor - JavelinI demand a GI Javelin dance video! With Drellfiltrator backup dancers! |
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inherit
1325
0
Dec 18, 2020 19:24:01 GMT
2,186
Mission_Scrubbed
202
Aug 28, 2016 22:38:49 GMT
August 2016
missionscrubbed
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Post by Mission_Scrubbed on Sept 7, 2017 20:41:30 GMT
It happened to bump into this little spider-hunter, I thanked him for all the feelings and his 10 years of service, and he happily flew away.  My best sniper rifle exists to terrorize enemies and carry pugs (satisfaction), my favorite one to take me back in time (priceless). Vote casted. Lvca you sob, I love when you talk dirty and defend the Mantis. Keep going, keep going... |
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awesome 
I think...
). Personally, i find that kind of thought limited. I don't like the Arc Pistol, but I know it's not garbage. And i'll add that a gun not being optimal doesn't make it garbage either. There's a whole spectrum between optimal and garbage. The mantis is there for me, and I even think it's slightly above average.
Mantis 
Better, Best