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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 22, 2017 1:39:28 GMT
Dorian was far from great. He was basically David Gaider's soapbox. A character made up of daddy issues and the typical sassy gay man using wit to fight discrimination. Flamboyant, fashion obsessed.
I'll grant you Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Leliana (amazing progression), Josephine, and Cullen. Even Solas and Cole were solid, and Vivienne was a well-written controversial character. But as a gay man, Dorian was nothing more than trite, obnoxious repetition of the victimhood narrative alongside the same stereotypes about gay men. Wanna break stereotypes? Cullen is far more up your alley. We haven't had a single knight archetype gay male character in the franchise, who's well adapted let alone traditional. It's always from the perspective of some drama-prone, maladapted neurotic minstrel. Few characters have made me cringe as Dorian has. I hear you, but Dorian reminds me of Kevin, an ex-Army nurse (now a PA). When he got out, he came out... with super-duper flair. I call him Dorian and it's not derogatory. He calls me "Ogre"... and yes... that's derogatory, but I can take it. To me, Dorian was my go-to guy. He is exactly the type of person I want at my side facing down the devil himself. Like Garrus, Wrex, Drack, Alistair and Minsc. Agreed. I actually had a very good friend with a life story very reminiscent of Dorian's, and so I found him very relatable. He was funny and witty and flirty and very, very interesting. Probably my favorite character from DAI.
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Uncle Cyan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 22, 2017 1:44:18 GMT
Dorian was far from great. He was basically David Gaider's soapbox. A character made up of daddy issues and the typical sassy gay man using wit to fight discrimination. Flamboyant, fashion obsessed.
I'll grant you Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Leliana (amazing progression), Josephine, and Cullen. Even Solas and Cole were solid, and Vivienne was a well-written controversial character. But as a gay man, Dorian was nothing more than trite, obnoxious repetition of the victimhood narrative alongside the same stereotypes about gay men. Wanna break stereotypes? Cullen is far more up your alley. We haven't had a single knight archetype gay male character in the franchise, who's well adapted let alone traditional. It's always from the perspective of some drama-prone, maladapted neurotic minstrel. Few characters have made me cringe as Dorian has. I hear you, but Dorian reminds me of Kevin, an ex-Army nurse (now a PA). When he got out, he came out... with super-duper flair. I call him Dorian and it's not derogatory. He calls me "Ogre"... and yes... that's derogatory, but I can take it. To me, Dorian was my go-to guy. He is exactly the type of person I want at my side facing down the devil himself. Like Garrus, Wrex, Drack, Alistair and Minsc. Kev sutured up my right earlobe after it grazed a portruding nail in a small forward observation shack on the Fort Bliss reservation. I should have a nasty scar, but nope... looks perfect. Chicks dig scars and nope... denied.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 22, 2017 1:46:57 GMT
I hear you, but Dorian reminds me of Kevin, an ex-Army nurse (now a PA). When he got out, he came out... with super-duper flair. I call him Dorian and it's not derogatory. He calls me "Ogre"... and yes... that's derogatory, but I can take it. To me, Dorian was my go-to guy. He is exactly the type of person I want at my side facing down the devil himself. Like Garrus, Wrex, Drack, Alistair and Minsc. Kev sutured up my right earlobe after it grazed a portruding nail in a small forward observation shack on the Fort Bliss reservation. I should have a nasty scar, but nope... looks perfect. Chicks dig scars and nope... denied. . Krogan females, too.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 22, 2017 11:37:07 GMT
Dorian was far from great. He was basically David Gaider's soapbox. A character made up of daddy issues and the typical sassy gay man using wit to fight discrimination. Flamboyant, fashion obsessed. I'll grant you Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Leliana (amazing progression), Josephine, and Cullen. Even Solas and Cole were solid, and Vivienne was a well-written controversial character. But as a gay man, Dorian was nothing more than trite, obnoxious repetition of the victimhood narrative alongside the same stereotypes about gay men. Wanna break stereotypes? Cullen is far more up your alley. We haven't had a single knight archetype gay male character in the franchise, who's well adapted let alone traditional. It's always from the perspective of some drama-prone, maladapted neurotic minstrel. Few characters have made me cringe as Dorian has. I dunno man, he may well have been Gaider's soapbox but I personally found him to be one of the most surprisingly enjoyable characters in the game. I wouldn't describe myself as either a stars'n'bars homophobe or a SJW, but when I first heard his schtick I honestly thought 'oh great, another post-Awakening Anders'. After a bit of gameplay I found him growing on me, and by the time his personal storyline came to a head he was on his way to being the DAI's answer to Garrus. Just my personal opinion, though.
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Post by pouf on Jul 22, 2017 11:39:32 GMT
Really, just think about how many people were willing to be honest about how their psychotic hatred of the game boils down entirely to female characters not making them horny and gay characters existing at all.
Then think about how many people's psychotic hatred of the game stems from the exact same reasons, but they just makes up lies to pretend that's not the case.
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Post by heathenoxman on Jul 22, 2017 16:18:37 GMT
Ah yes metacritic user review... the same who gave bloodrayne, an uwe boll movie a good score... yeah www.metacritic.com/movie/bloodrayneUser review of metacritic is no better than any other sites, anybody can creates an account or even multiple of them. As of now, on rotten tomatoes the movie "God's not dead" christian propaganda as a rating of 76%, even if its a shitty propaganda movie : www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gods_not_dead/User review do not mean anything to me at this point. Review aggregate sites are shit.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 22, 2017 16:24:10 GMT
Really, just think about how many people were willing to be honest about how their psychotic hatred of the game boils down entirely to female characters not making them horny and gay characters existing at all. Then think about how many people's psychotic hatred of the game stems from the exact same reasons, but they just makes up lies to pretend that's not the case. Offensive to lump people together like that. You're describing a very small minority of players, Fluffy.
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Post by heathenoxman on Jul 22, 2017 16:30:40 GMT
[Off Topic]
As someone diagnosed with autism, I just wanted to thank everyone for letting it be known that anti-autistic slurs are not okay.
[/Off Topic]
Carry on.
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Post by duckley on Jul 22, 2017 16:41:29 GMT
Interesting - I love Dorian. We are all sensitive to different things - respond differential based on our own experiences. The father disapproval thing didn't bother me.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jul 22, 2017 18:40:27 GMT
Like someone said, Steam reviews are much more reliable. I don't trust user reviews much, but the critic's average score is most of the time pretty accurate. Very good games always get very good scores and even games people hate a lot and have like 2 of average user score has like a 6 or 7 critic's score.
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Post by duckley on Jul 22, 2017 19:07:07 GMT
Excuse my ignorance but are the majority of the reviews on metacritic fan reviews?
After reading some of the reviews it is hard to take them seriously... does the industry? If so, YIKES! No wonder MEA is allegedly being put on hold! I am sure there are many thoughtful reviews and the reaction from players and their reviews are clearly very important but if we have players rating the game 4/10 because Garrus wasn't in it or we have informative reviews like - this game is cr*p 1/10, its hard to put too much stock in the metacritic score.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 22, 2017 19:19:04 GMT
Excuse my ignorance but are the majority of the reviews on metacritic fan reviews? After reading some of the reviews it is hard to take them seriously... does the industry? If so, YIKES! No wonder MEA is allegedly being put on hold! I am sure there are many thoughtful reviews and the reaction from players and their reviews are clearly very important but if we have players rating the game 4/10 because Garrus wasn't in it or we have informative reviews like - this game is cr*p 1/10, its hard to put too much stock in the metacritic score. It's split into fan and professional reviews which are separate from one another.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 22, 2017 19:30:14 GMT
Excuse my ignorance but are the majority of the reviews on metacritic fan reviews? After reading some of the reviews it is hard to take them seriously... does the industry? If so, YIKES! No wonder MEA is allegedly being put on hold! I am sure there are many thoughtful reviews and the reaction from players and their reviews are clearly very important but if we have players rating the game 4/10 because Garrus wasn't in it or we have informative reviews like - this game is cr*p 1/10, its hard to put too much stock in the metacritic score. In general I think the industry is more interested in sales and critical reviews (IGN, Forbes, etc), and not as much with user reviews. There's nothing stopping people who didn't play the game from putting out a score on metacritic (or posting here, for that matter), and if you go into some user profiles you can see that they post a score for all three platforms (PS4, XBOne, PC), even though the game had only been out for 1 day and it is very unlikely they actually played the game on every platform. There's also people who create multiple profiles, those who only score in "10 or 0", and of course those lovely people that gave MEA a score of 0 or 1 based on "Bioware SJW's", gay romances, the lack of Shepard, and the ME3 endings. I don't doubt that there are people who played the game, absolutely disliked it, and reviewed it poorly. That is perfectly fine and I honestly don't care about if a person likes MEA or not. But on metacritic, and other places, there is a sever lack of critical thinking and actual reviews. Instead people point to memes and jump on bandwagons. Don't like the profile system? Fine! Upset there aren't a lot of Renegade options? OK! Think there are too many fetch-quests? Sure! But once you start attacking the game because "There aren't any hot chicks to bang" and stating that Bioware SJW's have ruined the game by giving voice to the LGBTQ community and hating the game simply because it's in Andromeda and "SuperMac burned the whole franchise down. Muh endings" it just gets tiring and not helpful. In the long run, sales will mean more than scores, and if you look at Metacritic, where MEA got a 76 on XBone, it's sharing company with other well-receivedgames as "Ghost Recon: Wildlands" (which sold very well, I believe) and "Dishonored: Definitive edition" (one of my all-time favorite games). It also ranks higher than Star Wars Battlefront, Elite Dangerous: Horizons (f***ing awesome game), Destiny (that game didn't get a sequel, did it??), Dying Light, Assassins Creed: Unity (that game didn't get a sequel, did it??), and just bellow Assassins Creed: Syndicate, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, and Alien Isolation (freaking great game). So it doesn't hold the worst company, and many games that ranked around the same score got sequels and DLC.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 22, 2017 21:17:41 GMT
Like someone said, Steam reviews are much more reliable. I don't trust user reviews much, but the critic's average score is most of the time pretty accurate. Very good games always get very good scores and even games people hate a lot and have like 2 of average user score has like a 6 or 7 critic's score. I'm not sure they are. I mean, some of them are hilarious but they're no better than user metacritic scores in terms of reviews.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jul 22, 2017 21:21:32 GMT
Like someone said, Steam reviews are much more reliable. I don't trust user reviews much, but the critic's average score is most of the time pretty accurate. Very good games always get very good scores and even games people hate a lot and have like 2 of average user score has like a 6 or 7 critic's score. I'm not sure they are. I mean, some of them are hilarious but they're no better than user metacritic scores in terms of reviews. Oh, I'm not saying the individual reviews are better, I'm saying the review system works better. It's much harder for a game on steam to get generally bad reviewed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 21:27:21 GMT
Suikoden makes a thread about a review of andromeda. Predictably it's a bad review. Nothing new here. Carry on.
I'm done getting drawn into discussions of opinion. No point. I love the game. That's all that matters to me. I give no shits about what anyone else thinks of the game or my feelings about it. Nuff said.
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Post by dark8sage on Jul 22, 2017 22:58:03 GMT
I put far more weight on audience reviews than critic reviews. Critics tend to be English majors infusing the sociopolitical biases into the evaluation of a game and passing themselves off as impartial authorities. At least with user reviews nobody pretends that they don't have personal biases, and often the critique of a game boils down more to its technical aspects than whether the game adhered to the politically correct preferences of said critics (similarly, you can discard user reviews that use "SJW" as a sole reason to dismiss a game instead of explaining why the game fails on technical/narrative merits). Rotten Tomatoes shows this so clearly. Here's the movie Stonewall www.rottentomatoes.com/m/stonewall_201510% critics rating. Popcorn audience score of 87%. Reason? Most critics drank the KoolAid of a few loud activists/bloggers (redundant, I know) in the deranged idea that Stonewall was actually started by an abundantly black/Latino drag queens. The movie makes the capital crime of having gay white male protagonists. Anyone who had any clue about demographics and looked at the historical records and pictures of the riots would have known the ethnic breakdown being heavily white and male. Larry Kramer, a prominent voice in the gay movement, begged people to disregard the naysayers that were trying to sink the movie. Nevertheless, the damage had already been done at the box office with the false propaganda and negative buzz about "white washing" Stonewall. The movie was vindicated by a 87% positive user review compared to the 10% critics one, but the real annoyance about importance placed on the politically slanted opinions of critics (most of which are partial to far left, post-modern worldviews) put a real dampener on the performance of a work of art, regardless of what the actual consumers would have said about it. Similarly, games that many people enjoy like tales of symphonia and several japanese RPG's that enjoy widespread appeal did not do well by critics (especially since Japanese tropes clash heavily with the college activist industry). Ultimately the best way to tell whether you'd like a game or not would be to wait for a youtube playthrough to get an idea of what the game is, but going by user reviews is far better indication of how a game is received by the normal person compared to a critic.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 23, 2017 1:16:14 GMT
Suikoden makes a thread about a review of andromeda. Predictably it's a bad review. Nothing new here. Carry on. I'm done getting drawn into discussions of opinion. No point. I love the game. That's all that matters to me. I give no shits about what anyone else thinks of the game or my feelings about it. Nuff said. Actually, no - you're not even close. You clearly didn't read the article. Reviewer Jim Sterling reads metacritic user reviews for Andromeda and makes fun of them. That's why I said both sides would enjoy it. Would you prefer that I link Jim's actual review? He gave Andromeda a 50%.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 23, 2017 1:27:17 GMT
Suikoden makes a thread about a review of andromeda. Predictably it's a bad review. Nothing new here. Carry on. I'm done getting drawn into discussions of opinion. No point. I love the game. That's all that matters to me. I give no shits about what anyone else thinks of the game or my feelings about it. Nuff said. Actually, no - you're not even close. You clearly didn't read the article. Reviewer Jim Sterling reads metacritic user reviews for Andromeda and makes fun of them. That's why I said both sides would enjoy it. Would you prefer that I link Jim's actual review? He gave Andromeda a 50%. Yeah, but he gave BOTW a 7, so he's clearly unbalanced.
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Post by pouf on Jul 23, 2017 1:29:57 GMT
Jim Sterling is no different than any other gaming journalist.
Pretend to give a crap about how the anti-Andromeda circlejerk is full of genuinely-horrible people one minute, then kiss their asses and sell his soul to them the next.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 23, 2017 1:34:10 GMT
Actually, no - you're not even close. You clearly didn't read the article. Reviewer Jim Sterling reads metacritic user reviews for Andromeda and makes fun of them. That's why I said both sides would enjoy it. Would you prefer that I link Jim's actual review? He gave Andromeda a 50%. Yeah, but he gave BOTW a 7, so he's clearly unbalanced. But I thought 7 was a good score?
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 23, 2017 1:43:48 GMT
Yeah, but he gave BOTW a 7, so he's clearly unbalanced. But I thought 7 was a good score? It is a good score, but not for BOTW. That game is like perfection. Sure, the damage to weapons is a tad annoying, but I understand its purpose. It's second only to The Ocarina of Time for Zelda games for me. Plus, where the reviews for MEA were ranged (some in the 90's, others...lower), the reviews for BOTW were overwhelmingly supremely "changing the magnetic pole of the Earth" POSITIVE! And while everyone is assuredly allowed their opinion, in statistics we do this thing called "culling the outliers", which Sterling's review assuredly was. I've said it before, I can see a range of scores for Andromeda. It has it's faults, it has its things some people might not like, that's fine. Zeros and 1's, no, but anything from a 5-10 you can justify if you want. But for BOTW, anything lower than an 8 is just crazy. This isn't a game that got good reviews because it had a female protagonist (I'm not detracting from HZD, before anyone gets that idea. That, too, is a great game) or for any other political or nostalgic or anything reason. BOTW got amazing reviews because it is an amazing game. Period. So him giving it a 7 (clearly just to "differentiate" himself and get more views, which worked!) means that his viewpoints are way off the norm for other video game critics, which either means you have to think in a fairly off-the-map way to trust him as a critic, or that ALL GAME REVIEW SCORES ARE WORTHLESS!! You can take your pick there.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 23, 2017 1:48:50 GMT
Yeah, but he gave BOTW a 7, so he's clearly unbalanced. But I thought 7 was a good score? Nintendo fans sent Jim death threats for giving it a 7.
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Post by pouf on Jul 23, 2017 1:49:38 GMT
Breath of the Wild is a game that takes a series known for complex dungeons, inventive puzzles, and gathering an assortment of tools and weapons to allow you to traverse throughout the world and progress through the game...and abandons that all for tedious fetch-questing to increase your health and stamina, shallow shrines that exist solely to facilitate said fetch-questing, gameplay balance and design that forces you into taking the most monotonous means to defeating enemies every single time, and ultimately making actual dungeons or even the story completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of gameplay.
If it didn't have the Zelda name on it, people would actually acknowledge its many, many flaws and imperfections. It is quite literally a game that everyone kisses the backside of just because it breaks away from the established Zelda formula...without caring in the slightest if those changes are actually for the better.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 23, 2017 1:54:47 GMT
But I thought 7 was a good score? It is a good score, but not for BOTW. That game is like perfection. Sure, the damage to weapons is a tad annoying, but I understand its purpose. It's second only to The Ocarina of Time for Zelda games for me. Plus, where the reviews for MEA were ranged (some in the 90's, others...lower), the reviews for BOTW were overwhelmingly supremely "changing the magnetic pole of the Earth" POSITIVE! And while everyone is assuredly allowed their opinion, in statistics we do this thing called "culling the outliers", which Sterling's review assuredly was. I've said it before, I can see a range of scores for Andromeda. It has it's faults, it has its things some people might not like, that's fine. Zeros and 1's, no, but anything from a 5-10 you can justify if you want. But for BOTW, anything lower than an 8 is just crazy. This isn't a game that got good reviews because it had a female protagonist (I'm not detracting from HZD, before anyone gets that idea. That, too, is a great game) or for any other political or nostalgic or anything reason. BOTW got amazing reviews because it is an amazing game. Period. So him giving it a 7 (clearly just to "differentiate" himself and get more views, which worked!) means that his viewpoints are way off the norm for other video game critics, which either means you have to think in a fairly off-the-map way to trust him as a critic, or that ALL GAME REVIEW SCORES ARE WORTHLESS!! You can take your pick there. I agree that it did seem to be a click-baity review. It's an easy 10 for me - if Mass Effect keeps with the open world stuff, I hope they borrow heavily from the verticality in BOTW.
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