Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 24, 2017 22:04:49 GMT
That would be unrealistic, unacceptable and just a bad move.
Mass Effect Andromeda is already a soft reboot, you don't do another soft reboot only a few years later. BioWare has to stick with Andromeda, they put too much effort to set up new galaxy just to return back and get into endings issues. As well issue of potentially canonizing Shepard's choices.
Also returning to Milky Way also means whatever story is told, it will be less significant to Shepard's story. And one of biggest criticism about Ryder's story is that it is less significant to Shepard's story. So people critical of ME:A story would still not be satisfied with whatever new story back in Milky Way.
BioWare has really two options for continuing ME series:
1. Stick with Andromeda. They can return majority of species in new galaxy from old one, while creating brand new aliens species. As well Mass Relays development in Andromeda can be part of future main plot.
2. A complete reboot of ME franchise. Redevelop lore, redo Shepard's trilogy, redo everything. That would be a controversial option and unacceptable one until for at least 10 more years have pass from today. Only then it could work, but that's a massive gap for EA to just freeze one of their popular franchises.
In reality, BioWare has to stick with Andromeda. There have many opportunities to explore in new galaxy, instead of being stuck with many limitations Shepard's trilogy had caused. And total reboot of Shepard's trilogy is an unrealistic business decision, especially with a rumor that EA had already shut down that idea in very early ME:A development.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 24, 2017 22:06:10 GMT
Anyone else think that, with the very tepid reaction by most ME fans and the general gaming population/media, it is quite possible that for the next Mass Effect title to be set back in the Milky Way? What do y'all think?  |
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 24, 2017 22:14:41 GMT
Don't see any issue with going back to MW galaxy, has same potential as Andromeda when 99% of it has been unexplored. I though that too, but then I remembered, exploration in Milky Way is massively restricted due to Rachni War. Citadel Council restricted use of dormant Mass Relays to avoid another galaxy wide crisis and it appears non-Citadel Council governments at least de-facto obey that agree to this as Rachni invaded everyone. This is also what caused First Contact War as human explorers used a dormant Mass Relay, due to which Turian Hierarchy went fully hostile as that's how tough Citadel Council was to enforce that law. Which also caused System Alliance being forced to colonized worlds that were promised to Batarian Hierarchy. So explorations in Milky Way is actually very limited. Things may have changed after Reaper War, as exploring new worlds is now a necessity. But then we get into an issue of canonizing one of ME3 endings. Let's face it, BioWare put themselves in the corner for Milky Way. They can't do within Shepard's timeline story, they can't do post ending, also they can't do anything in past due to BioWare's policy Mass Effect is a human story. Within 40 years of FCW and Shepard's trilogy, nothing interesting happens to have it's own 25 to 100 hours long Mass Effect game. Let alone with a sequel! |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 24, 2017 22:21:04 GMT
Don't see any issue with going back to MW galaxy, has same potential as Andromeda when 99% of it has been unexplored. I though that too, but then I remembered, exploration in Milky Way is massively restricted due to Rachni War. Citadel Council restricted use of dormant Mass Relays to avoid another galaxy wide crisis and it appears non-Citadel Council governments at least de-facto obey that agree to this as Rachni invaded everyone. This is also what caused First Contact War as human explorers used a dormant Mass Relay, due to which Turian Hierarchy went fully hostile as that's how tough Citadel Council was to enforce that law. Which also caused System Alliance being forced to colonized worlds that were promised to Batarian Hierarchy. So explorations in Milky Way is actually very limited. Things may have changed after Reaper War, as exploring new worlds is now a necessity. But then we get into an issue of canonizing one of ME3 endings. Let's face it, BioWare put themselves in the corner for Milky Way. They can't do within Shepard's timeline story, they can't do post ending, also they can't do anything in past due to BioWare's policy Mass Effect is a human story. Within 40 years of FCW and Shepard's trilogy, nothing interesting happens to have it's own 25 to 100 hours long Mass Effect game. Let alone with a sequel! It's actually more to do with our cycle falling for the Reaper trap like all the other cycles, developing along the paths they desire. In this case, a dependence on the Mass Relay Array as well as the static discharge issue. That's why the ODSY Drive is so groundbreaking, since it addresses that issue so we are able to explore anywhere. But yeah the Mass Relay Array is restricted due to everything you said. |
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 24, 2017 22:51:53 GMT
It's actually more to do with our cycle falling for the Reaper trap like all the other cycles, developing along the paths they desire. In this case, a dependence on the Mass Relay Array as well as the static discharge issue. That's why the ODSY Drive is so groundbreaking, since it addresses that issue so we are able to explore anywhere. But yeah the Mass Relay Array is restricted due to everything you said. Actually normal FTL drives in ME trilogy are enough to explore entire Milky Way. It's just very time consuming and costs resources. MW species just put a lot of dependence on Mass Relays because those are basically highways. Why take a trip with normal FTL drives that might take months if not over a year, when you can get to destination in a matter of days with Mass Relays? Exploring other systems without Mass Relays connections is just a very risky adventure. No guarantee of resources to be gained, potentially one-way trip if you're not prepared for failure, and even if you find a resource rich solar system no guarantee you'll get rich due to slowness of trip from one system to another without Mass Relays, while rest of galaxy works on near instantaneous trips to move goods and resources. Galactic governments of Milky Way are economically depended on Mass Relays. It's really a time consuming process that is a true obstacle, not the lack of fuel efficiency technology. And to get rid of Mass Relay dependency, you need to go post-ME3 endings. That's a shitshow BioWare wants to avoid. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 24, 2017 22:57:31 GMT
It's actually more to do with our cycle falling for the Reaper trap like all the other cycles, developing along the paths they desire. In this case, a dependence on the Mass Relay Array as well as the static discharge issue. That's why the ODSY Drive is so groundbreaking, since it addresses that issue so we are able to explore anywhere. But yeah the Mass Relay Array is restricted due to everything you said. Actually normal FTL drives in ME trilogy are enough to explore entire Milky Way. It's just very time consuming and costs resources. MW species just put a lot of dependence on Mass Relays because those are basically highways. Why take a trip with normal FTL drives that might take months if not over a year, when you can get to destination in a matter of days with Mass Relays? Exploring other systems without Mass Relays connections is just a very risky adventure. No guarantee of resources to be gained, potentially one-way trip if you're not prepared for failure, and even if you find a resource rich solar system no guarantee you'll get rich due to slowness of trip from one system to another without Mass Relays, while rest of galaxy works on near instantaneous trips to move goods and resources. Galactic governments of Milky Way are economically depended on Mass Relays. It's really a time consuming process that is a true obstacle, not the lack of fuel efficiency technology. And to get rid of Mass Relay dependency, you need to go post-ME3 endings. That's a shitshow BioWare wants to avoid. Not really. Normal FTL drives according to the lore have a range of 25 light years before having to discharge. There are plenty of places in the galaxy that are cut off from each other because of that(at least other than using Mass Relays). You are correct about the Mass Relays being seen as essential and a convenience. One way we fall for the Reaper trap since why develop something when we already have something that works wonderfully. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 24, 2017 23:23:03 GMT
At this point, I'd have more issues with them taking this series back to the Milky Way before we even get a chance to realize on any of the amazing potential story lines they've opened up for themselves in Andromeda. If they plan on pandering to the lot who absolutely refused to give this game any sort of chance because it wasn't set in the Milky Way, I hope they plan to go forward with 2 separate Mass Effect series rather than one. I want to see what happens in Andromeda. The Shepard vs. the Reapers story was finished at the end of ME3. I've wanted to move on... and now that I have, I don't want to go back. tbh I agree as much as I loved Shepard and the milky way trilogy I want new interesting stories and I think I'm finding them in MEA so I'd prefer we see what new stuff we can find there first. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 24, 2017 23:25:56 GMT
Anyone else think that, with the very tepid reaction by most ME fans and the general gaming population/media, it is quite possible that for the next Mass Effect title to be set back in the Milky Way? What do y'all think? I knew someone was going to post that I just knew it.  |
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Post by Guts on Jul 24, 2017 23:32:01 GMT
No offense but hell no. I know you don't like Andromeda but there is no need for a reboot. The only way ahead is forward not back. I'm not sure. As I see it, the only way to go foward is to start again, again. That means an "Andromeda 2" would be a soft reboot of a soft reboot. New characters, new protagonist, maybe some 50 years into the future so that the shape of the Cluster is very new. Although I'm sure some people would like to see a direct sequel, I don't see it happening. I actually think having the characters of andromeda return in a sequel would be a better idea, I mean, the characters from the original trilogy had 3 games to develop over, Liara notwithstanding, and they were pretty damn good, I thought the new cast was cool as well, but then again, that's my opinion. To kinda throw the squadmates in Andromeda to the side would feel like a waste. However, I think SAM needs to take a major backseat, he played waaaaaaay too large of a role in the story and it just felt lazy, and if they do have Ryder return, it would, hopefully, give them a chance to grow as a character. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 24, 2017 23:34:40 GMT
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Post by malanek on Jul 24, 2017 23:54:47 GMT
Because you want your choices to matter? Yeah not falling for it.  Your choices absolutely do not matter in any but the most superficial manner in any Bioware game that features an import. All that happens is it gets harder and harder to write a story or offer players meaningful choices in a game. By running their import, instead of seeing the outcome of one possible player choice, you don't see any outcome at all. Everything you did was meaningless and leads to really crappy writing (Andromeda transition) to avoid it. As I said, I was prepared to handwave that part of the game (explanation about the journey) away, and I still enjoyed the game. But there is no way in a debate I am going to accept the fact it actually leads to a better story. It doesn't. It is a significant hindrance and has never once been dealt with well by Bioware. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 25, 2017 0:01:40 GMT
Yeah not falling for it. Your choices absolutely do not matter in any but the most superficial manner in any Bioware game that features an import. All that happens is it gets harder and harder to write a story or offer players meaningful choices in a game. By running their import, instead of seeing the outcome of one possible player choice, you don't see any outcome at all. Everything you did was meaningless and leads to really crappy writing (Andromeda transition) to avoid it. As I said, I was prepared to handwave that part of the game (explanation about the journey) away, and I still enjoyed the game. But there is no way in a debate I am going to accept the fact it actually leads to a better story. It doesn't. It is a significant hindrance and has never once been dealt with well by Bioware. Yeah I don't agree at all. But I'm not going down this rabbit hole. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 25, 2017 0:12:39 GMT
Actually normal FTL drives in ME trilogy are enough to explore entire Milky Way. It's just very time consuming and costs resources. Not really. Normal FTL drives according to the lore have a range of 25 light years before having to discharge. There are plenty of places in the galaxy that are cut off from each other because of that(at least other than using Mass Relays). You are correct about the Mass Relays being seen as essential and a convenience. One way we fall for the Reaper trap since why develop something when we already have something that works wonderfully. Do we actually have data to support the Italed? Very few systems on the map don't have anyplace to dump drive charge. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 0:28:07 GMT
Not really. Normal FTL drives according to the lore have a range of 25 light years before having to discharge. There are plenty of places in the galaxy that are cut off from each other because of that(at least other than using Mass Relays). You are correct about the Mass Relays being seen as essential and a convenience. One way we fall for the Reaper trap since why develop something when we already have something that works wonderfully. Do we actually have data to support the Italed? Very few systems on the map don't have anyplace to dump drive charge. It's not really the systems. It's the distance between clusters. You can move around a cluster using just FTL. There are places to discharge and the systems are close enough together. But clusters themselves are too far apart to go without the ODSY drive. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Jul 25, 2017 1:03:53 GMT
I'm not sure. As I see it, the only way to go foward is to start again, again. That means an "Andromeda 2" would be a soft reboot of a soft reboot. New characters, new protagonist, maybe some 50 years into the future so that the shape of the Cluster is very new. Although I'm sure some people would like to see a direct sequel, I don't see it happening. I actually think having the characters of andromeda return in a sequel would be a better idea, I mean, the characters from the original trilogy had 3 games to develop over, Liara notwithstanding, and they were pretty damn good, I thought the new cast was cool as well, but then again, that's my opinion. To kinda throw the squadmates in Andromeda to the side would feel like a waste. However, I think SAM needs to take a major backseat, he played waaaaaaay too large of a role in the story and it just felt lazy, and if they do have Ryder return, it would, hopefully, give them a chance to grow as a character. That's not true. A very few did, but most had really just one. And that's really all you need. I'd say only Tali and Liara were very bland in ME1 and only become their own characters in ME2. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 1:12:42 GMT
I actually think having the characters of andromeda return in a sequel would be a better idea, I mean, the characters from the original trilogy had 3 games to develop over, Liara notwithstanding, and they were pretty damn good, I thought the new cast was cool as well, but then again, that's my opinion. To kinda throw the squadmates in Andromeda to the side would feel like a waste. However, I think SAM needs to take a major backseat, he played waaaaaaay too large of a role in the story and it just felt lazy, and if they do have Ryder return, it would, hopefully, give them a chance to grow as a character. That's not true. A very few did, but most had really just one. And that's really all you need. I'd say only Tali and Liara were very bland in ME1 and only become their own characters in ME2. What did Garrus actually say in ME1 that makes you think he was so interesting and not every bit as one dimensional as Tali?. He worked for C-Sec, hated the rules, was listed to become a spectre and his dad didn't like it and failed to chase down a particular criminal who we later caught. Beyond that, what was there to Garrus in ME1 - nothing. |
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jul 25, 2017 1:15:47 GMT
Don't see any issue with going back to MW galaxy, has same potential as Andromeda when 99% of it has been unexplored. Sorry, it doesn't. The potential in Andromeda exists with the story lines they've opened up for themselves in Andromeda. Bioware finished the story they were telling in the Milky Way. The Milky Way galaxy they created was only created to tell that story and we've seen all of it that they did create. It's a set piece for that particular story... that is all. People going on about 99% unexplored is like if people who saw a play taking place in one New York apartment and that playwright's next play takes place in Tuscon whined "but we haven't seen all of New York yet?" It really makes no sense. Dense as people want to be about it, they have been saying for years... Shepard's story is finished... done. Bioware moved onto telling a new Mass Effect story and that story clearly is not finished... and it is being told in the Andromeda galaxy. But it does. Simply put Andromedas story into another part of the MW (not that I care that Andromeda itself isn't in MW, I honestly don't care what galaxy we're in cause any story can be told in any galaxy, that's the endless potential a space setting offers after all). i also should note my comment on the MW also has nothing to do with Shepard either, I'm fully aware his story is over but his story was never the entirety of a whole galaxy, meaning the galaxy is bigger than Shepard. There's also work arounds on Shepards choices. Either reboot it, set a canon ending, or simply ignore it and pretend it has no bearing with any other MW settings. one is limiting themself thinking Shepard is why the MW can't work, bioware included, plus they've already shown they don't care about player choices mattering in the long run so I don't see an issue picking a cannon ending. the thing is, if ME3 actually played out correctly I'd count on the next game being based in MW, but because of how they screwed up, they moved away to another galaxy to avoid their past mistake. Andromeda didn't happen because it had more potential, it happened because bioware won't get a work around for the MW. It's easier to pretend something never happened rather than admitting it and working through it. because they've already started Andromeda they may as well finish it I guess, makes no sense abanding it but like I said, bioware didn't "have" to make a new galaxy to get potential, they already had one in the MW and the space setting offers endless stories anyways. |
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Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2017 1:16:31 GMT
People are using language so imprecisely in this thread its killing me.
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Post by thedarkprince on Jul 25, 2017 1:18:47 GMT
Anyone else think that, with the very tepid reaction by most ME fans and the general gaming population/media, it is quite possible that for the next Mass Effect title to be set back in the Milky Way? Before Andromeda released, I was fairly confident that we'd see several games set in the Andromeda galaxy, telling the story of the Ryder family as they seek to find a new home for the Citadel races. But with the unexpectedly low sales and review scores, everything seems to have changed on Biowares end. We still don't know for sure, but it seems as though Montreal has been downsized from a full studio and repurposed as a supplemental team once again. I think it is quite possible Bioware may play it safe on their end, by releasing a game set in the more traditional and well-liked setting of the Milky Way. That way, they can use tried and true settings, fan favorite characters and races, and iconic elements from the trilogy (ME relays, etc.) to win back hardcore fans. What do y'all think? My guess is that they will just pretend Andromeda never happened, And do a sequel set in the Milky way. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 1:19:09 GMT
People are using language so imprecisely in this thread its killing me. Well, it's not college essay.  |
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Post by Seera1024 on Jul 25, 2017 1:21:15 GMT
I don't think there's any real story left to tell in the Milky Way.
Shepard's either dead or severely injured - to the point, he'd likely be honorably discharged from the Alliance and Spectre programs because of it. And there are just too many big changes that didn't affect the ending of ME3 that would affect post-ME3 assuming the do nothing option isn't taken. Quarians or Geth or both? Wrex or Wreav or neither? Genophage cured? Which option was chosen: Red, Green, or Blue?
I hope we get another game with Ryder. Whether it's MEA2 or a MEA3 even.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2017 1:23:02 GMT
People are using language so imprecisely in this thread its killing me. Well, it's not college essay. no but one of the best things i learned in college was how important it was to use language precisely and how important agreeing on definitions was. Because if you can't agree on a definition you are more likely to have stupid debates that descend into ad hominems. Andromeda is not a reboot. Soft or otherwise from any of the commonly accepted definitions I've heard. |
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Post by Seera1024 on Jul 25, 2017 1:25:38 GMT
Well, it's not college essay. no but one of the best things i learned in college was how important it was to use language precisely and how important agreeing on definitions was. Because if you can't agree on a definition you are more likely to have stupid debates that descend into ad hominems. Andromeda is not a reboot. Soft or otherwise from any of the commonly accepted definitions I've heard. I'd call it a spin off. Kind of like Law and Order had a couple of spin offs. So did CSI. The only game of EA that I would call having soft reboots is the Sims series. Just because of the genre it is. In order to change graphic style or engine, you have to do a reboot of some kind. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 1:27:08 GMT
Well, it's not college essay. no but one of the best things i learned in college was how important it was to use language precisely and how important agreeing on definitions was. Because if you can't agree on a definition you are more likely to have stupid debates that descend into ad hominems. Andromeda is not a reboot. Soft or otherwise from any of the commonly accepted definitions I've heard. Ha, oh I agree. That was a joke from the other thread. I agree, MEA is not a reboot. |
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 25, 2017 1:27:34 GMT
I actually think having the characters of andromeda return in a sequel would be a better idea, I mean, the characters from the original trilogy had 3 games to develop over, Liara notwithstanding, and they were pretty damn good, I thought the new cast was cool as well, but then again, that's my opinion. To kinda throw the squadmates in Andromeda to the side would feel like a waste. However, I think SAM needs to take a major backseat, he played waaaaaaay too large of a role in the story and it just felt lazy, and if they do have Ryder return, it would, hopefully, give them a chance to grow as a character. That's not true. A very few did, but most had really just one. And that's really all you need. I'd say only Tali and Liara were very bland in ME1 and only become their own characters in ME2. I'd say both Tali and Garrus had a fair amount of progression from ME1 through to ME3. I didn't think Garrus really become a truly solid character until ME3, and Tali at least had more story involvement through to the end. In any case, ME suffered serious companion glut in its middle chapter, so I guess "most" isn't really important when a lot of them pretty much have to be disposable at that point. |
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