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Post by griffith82 on Jul 31, 2017 16:03:17 GMT
If its not already clear, you don't appear to be explaining why redoing everything in the MW will be better then redoing everything in Andromeda. Your argument for going back to the MW is the same reason you've given for why you dislike Andromeda as a setting. I don't think I'm being very clear and that's on me. What I hope BioWare would do is declare Andromeda non-canonical musings red sand using people stranded on that planet Jacob's father landed on. Then just continue the series set in a world state where Shepard chose High-EMS Destroy as the ending setting. Thankfully that won't happen. |
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Daft Arbiter
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Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
Origin: dasriboflavin
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jul 31, 2017 16:57:34 GMT
I'd personally love a Mass Effect game that deals with galactic society in the aftermath of a Reaper War. Ancient forerunner civilizations and blasts from the past are gone, so we can look to the future. On the other hand, there's loose ends to tie up. How do the Krogan manage themselves in a post-Genophage existence? What would a united Quarian-Geth civilization look like? Who joins the new Citadel, and who doesn't? The Batarian Hegemony is completely destroyed but hundreds of millions if not billions of Batarians still live in Terminus space and need to build a new government. Pre-spaceflight species such as the Yahg are none the worse for wear following the war; what happens to them? What role does Shepard take, provided he/she survived the events of the series, and what role do the Reapers fill if they weren't destroyed? And what about the Leviathans? Are the former rulers of the galaxy content to hide on an isolated ocean world or do they view the chaos as a chance to rebuild their lost empire? We get little hints of most of these (and other things) in the epilogue, but only to a certain degree. Of course, handling these in another game would require canonizing an ending, but I myself would not mind. Sadly, the Geth/Quarian civilization could never be, since the geth are dead in the One True Ending™. RIP the toasters. Probably one of the things that lends itself to Control being the "best" ending for the sake of another game. Synthesis is definitely too utopian, whereas Destroy lets us keep Shepard but gets rid of the Geth, the sassy sexbot, and all other sentient Reaper constructs. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2017 17:01:30 GMT
I choose the quarians to let them finish what they started. Had the reapers not interfered, the quarians would have defeated the geth
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 31, 2017 17:40:03 GMT
Sadly, the Geth/Quarian civilization could never be, since the geth are dead in the One True Ending™. RIP the toasters. Probably one of the things that lends itself to Control being the "best" ending for the sake of another game. Synthesis is definitely too utopian, whereas Destroy lets us keep Shepard but gets rid of the Geth, the sassy sexbot, and all other sentient Reaper constructs. And we can make the whole genocide thing go away by having CanonShep not make her persuasion check at Rannoch, so the extermination of the geth is on the quarians. If that's something we need to do, that is. |
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Post by malanek on Jul 31, 2017 20:27:14 GMT
Sadly, the Geth/Quarian civilization could never be, since the geth are dead in the One True Ending™. RIP the toasters. Probably one of the things that lends itself to Control being the "best" ending for the sake of another game. Synthesis is definitely too utopian, whereas Destroy lets us keep Shepard but gets rid of the Geth, the sassy sexbot, and all other sentient Reaper constructs. A major plot point could be based around the Quarians (illegally?) deciding to rebuild the Geth given their sacrifice. It would be very interesting imo to explore what they think as they come alive and learn the history. I think either side of control would be doable, and could even be quite interesting, but it would be markedly different and I'm not sure that would be the best way to go. |
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DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Aug 2, 2017 8:17:43 GMT
I think Bioware could make a sequel to andromeda AND the Milky Way. For the simple reason that the Andromeda team took off during the time of ME2. Then a couple of years later ME3 happened along with the Reaper war. So essentially the Milky Way dwellers have had 590 or so years to repair the mass relays and during that time, they probably figured out a way to improve them and increase their range. I wouldn't be surprised if in ME:A2 we will see re-inforcements appear from the Milky Way with new tech improvements.
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Post by akaranzo on Aug 3, 2017 2:31:31 GMT
Honestly, I'd take a prequel in the Milky Way over Andromeda 2 (though I'd obviously prefer a non-prequel, but I understand that's difficult). The plot for Andromeda was just truly bland and uninspired, and I can't see a way for them to salvage it and make it interesting again, they'd have to retcon everything basically. Mass Effect should just stick to the Milky Way for now, there is still so many possibilities for amazing stories there, it's way too soon to jump over to a completely new galaxy.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 3, 2017 2:36:19 GMT
Honestly, I'd take a prequel in the Milky Way over Andromeda 2 (though I'd obviously prefer a non-prequel, but I understand that's difficult). The plot for Andromeda was just truly bland and uninspired, and I can't see a way for them to salvage it and make it interesting again, they'd have to retcon everything basically. Mass Effect should just stick to the Milky Way for now, there is still so many possibilities for amazing stories there, it's way too soon to jump over to a completely new galaxy. I don't agree. The plot was interesting and the possibilities are endless. Not so much in the MW. It's done time to move on. |
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 3, 2017 3:06:46 GMT
Honestly, I'd take a prequel in the Milky Way over Andromeda 2 (though I'd obviously prefer a non-prequel, but I understand that's difficult). The plot for Andromeda was just truly bland and uninspired, and I can't see a way for them to salvage it and make it interesting again, they'd have to retcon everything basically. Mass Effect should just stick to the Milky Way for now, there is still so many possibilities for amazing stories there, it's way too soon to jump over to a completely new galaxy. I don't agree. The plot was interesting and the possibilities are endless. Not so much in the MW. It's done time to move on. The plot was a retread of Halo and ME1, it brought nothing new to the table that we haven't seen before. I'd vastly prefer they stick with their original world that they constructed and make new stories in that rathern then give up and try again, it clearly didn't work. |
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Post by akaranzo on Aug 3, 2017 3:06:59 GMT
Honestly, I'd take a prequel in the Milky Way over Andromeda 2 (though I'd obviously prefer a non-prequel, but I understand that's difficult). The plot for Andromeda was just truly bland and uninspired, and I can't see a way for them to salvage it and make it interesting again, they'd have to retcon everything basically. Mass Effect should just stick to the Milky Way for now, there is still so many possibilities for amazing stories there, it's way too soon to jump over to a completely new galaxy. I don't agree. The plot was interesting and the possibilities are endless. Not so much in the MW. It's done time to move on. Really? What did you find so interesting about it? To me personally, the start of the game had potential but it quickly went downhill from there. The overall tone of the story was just too light hearted for a start. These people were 600 years in the future in an unknown galaxy, desperately looking for a planet to live on before they run out of stocked up resources. And considering what had happened, all the uprisings and stuff, they should have been depressed as hell, in a really bad spot. It could've made the game feel like you were actually fighting for your survival, not just chilling around in a different galaxy. Then the next problem was that Andromeda as a galaxy was just not different enough. The designs of places and races lacked creativity. The Kett and the Angara were just conceptually boring to me, and their actions only elevated that boredom. The Archon turned out to be a generic run of the mill sci-fi villain, there was nothing compelling about him. No mystery or fear like The Reapers caused in the original trilogy. The Remnant had the most potential but even their design got kinda tedious to me by the end, just your typical sci-fi robotic design with lots of neon lights. Andromeda should've been a lot crazier and more different from The Milky Way, and the tone should've been a lot darker for the whole story. The plot was way too generic and bland and to me, I just don't see where they could go with it to make it interesting again. So I would honestly just ditch it and make the next one about something else. |
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malgus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by daiyus on Aug 3, 2017 6:53:43 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again; I'd be more disappointed going back to the Milky Way without finishing the current arc in Andromeda. There's still so many questions unanswered. Regardless of if you liked Andromeda as a game the potential is undeniable. I say stick with Andromeda and work on the critiques.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 3, 2017 8:22:49 GMT
Blue Ending is true ending.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 3, 2017 16:09:57 GMT
I don't agree. The plot was interesting and the possibilities are endless. Not so much in the MW. It's done time to move on. The plot was a retread of Halo and ME1, it brought nothing new to the table that we haven't seen before. I'd vastly prefer they stick with their original world that they constructed and make new stories in that rathern then give up and try again, it clearly didn't work. Is the plot actually relevant here? It's not like staying in the MW would have automatically solved your plot problems with ME:A; an ME4 written by the same guys would have been of the same quality, wouldn't it? On the flip side, I think either setting could work plot-wise. Using the MW has issues, but I don't think coming up with plot is one of them. If anything, not being able to do a Greatest Threat To All Life In History is a feature, not a bug. |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 3, 2017 16:17:43 GMT
Then the next problem was that Andromeda as a galaxy was just not different enough. The designs of places and races lacked creativity. The Kett and the Angara were just conceptually boring to me, and their actions only elevated that boredom. The Archon turned out to be a generic run of the mill sci-fi villain, there was nothing compelling about him. No mystery or fear like The Reapers caused in the original trilogy. The Remnant had the most potential but even their design got kinda tedious to me by the end, just your typical sci-fi robotic design with lots of neon lights. Andromeda should've been a lot crazier and more different from The Milky Way, and the tone should've been a lot darker for the whole story. The plot was way too generic and bland and to me, I just don't see where they could go with it to make it interesting again. So I would honestly just ditch it and make the next one about something else. You do realize that the alien design makes no rational sense, right? Planets evolve separately, and which galaxy they're in is irrelevant. Humanoid races are simply dominant in the MEU; apparently, evolution favors them. This doesn't make it a bad argument, necessarily. It's not crazy to say that the MET approach to alien life was bad and should have been fixed in ME:A. But then you have to own thinking that the trilogy itself was bad. As for plot, it sounds like you're making a Stargate Universe argument. I liked that show fine, but it's hard to argue that it succeeded. |
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Post by akaranzo on Aug 3, 2017 16:38:33 GMT
Then the next problem was that Andromeda as a galaxy was just not different enough. The designs of places and races lacked creativity. The Kett and the Angara were just conceptually boring to me, and their actions only elevated that boredom. The Archon turned out to be a generic run of the mill sci-fi villain, there was nothing compelling about him. No mystery or fear like The Reapers caused in the original trilogy. The Remnant had the most potential but even their design got kinda tedious to me by the end, just your typical sci-fi robotic design with lots of neon lights. Andromeda should've been a lot crazier and more different from The Milky Way, and the tone should've been a lot darker for the whole story. The plot was way too generic and bland and to me, I just don't see where they could go with it to make it interesting again. So I would honestly just ditch it and make the next one about something else. You do realize that the alien design makes no rational sense, right? Planets evolve separately, and which galaxy they're in is irrelevant. Humanoid races are simply dominant in the MEU; apparently, evolution favors them. This doesn't make it a bad argument, necessarily. It's not crazy to say that the MET approach to alien life was bad and should have been fixed in ME:A. But then you have to own thinking that the trilogy itself was bad. As for plot, it sounds like you're making a Stargate Universe argument. I liked that show fine, but it's hard to argue that it succeeded. Well the thing is that Mass Effect has succeeded before in creating non humanoid alien species, look at the Rachni or the Elcor, or the Hanar. Those are some creative designs and they could've easily pulled off something along those lines for Mass Effect Andromeda. There could be a humanoid alien species in Andromeda, but don't make it the first one we meet, and put a little more thought to it rather than just hunky dudes with bones on their faces or buffy Twi'leks. The design just felt lazy in MEA's case. As for the plot, yes I've heard this type of idea compared to Stargate Universe before, I think I've only seen an episode or two of that show a very long time ago, but I believe this type of plot could have huge potential. It would have fit perfectly with the idea of a pathfinder, leading the whole human species essentially and bearing that weight on his shoulder from one decision to the next. Instead of the Tempest, have the pathfinder lead Ark Hyperion, you're going through an unmapped galaxy, from one planet to another, evaluating them and seeing if there is a possibility for colonization. Leave it up to the player whether you want to risk colonizing a certain planet or not and deal with the consequences if you made a bad choice. |
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Post by vonuber on Aug 3, 2017 17:11:28 GMT
Instead of the Tempest, have the pathfinder lead Ark Hyperion, you're going through an unmapped galaxy, from one planet to another, evaluating them and seeing if there is a possibility for colonization. Leave it up to the player whether you want to risk colonizing a certain planet or not and deal with the consequences if you made a bad choice. Sure, if you want a game about endless committee meetings on climates, soil suitability, available minerals, length of day / night cycles, air chemical composition etc. Sounds great fun- can Not!Ryder stay awake during the 5th PowerPoint presentation of the day on geological faults and their impact on colony foundations? Will they make it through to lunchtime where they need to avoid Brian from accounting who wants to discuss why you've sent so many probes in that area, didn't you read the 600 page report on it? |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 3, 2017 17:14:59 GMT
Those races succeeded because they were only used in passing. They didn't have the animation suites to be used more broadly. In theory, they could have had such content. In practice, I don't see how that design passes an ROI test. (Which, of course, is why humanoid races were dominant in the trilogy in the first place.) If you're asking for one or two cameo races in ME:A, that's a different argument. Probably could have been done; you can kill one of the existing planets and replace it with one with the non-humanoid race, and bring it in for about the same cost.
Although, again, I'm not certain why this is a real problem for ME:A when it wasn't one in the 70s-90s SF which was the source material, and nobody complained about all the humanoids in the trilogy.
My point about SGU was that the fanbase didn't accept the shift in tone.
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Post by akaranzo on Aug 3, 2017 17:30:59 GMT
Instead of the Tempest, have the pathfinder lead Ark Hyperion, you're going through an unmapped galaxy, from one planet to another, evaluating them and seeing if there is a possibility for colonization. Leave it up to the player whether you want to risk colonizing a certain planet or not and deal with the consequences if you made a bad choice. Sure, if you want a game about endless committee meetings on climates, soil suitability, available minerals, length of day / night cycles, air chemical composition etc. Sounds great fun- can Not!Ryder stay awake during the 5th PowerPoint presentation of the day on geological faults and their impact on colony foundations? Will they make it through to lunchtime where they need to avoid Brian from accounting who wants to discuss why you've sent so many probes in that area, didn't you read the 600 page report on it? That's obviously not how it would work. The core gameplay would be similar to what it was - you're driving around with the Nomad in a pretty huge area, discovering what types of resources are on the planet, determining radiation levels and temperatures, and seeing if there are any hostile alien species or plants on the planet. Then you need to choose where to establish a colony, different areas will have different levels of radiation, defensibility from a possible assault, resource amounts and so on. It's all a compromise and you need to prioritize differently for each specific colony. But you'd still be exploring, you could still find some strange artificial creations on some of these planets that make up the overarching story. But the main point would be that you're literally a pathfinder, you're treading on territory where no human has set foot before, unlike most of the worlds in MEA, where there had already been colonies, or exiles, or Angara. |
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Post by akaranzo on Aug 3, 2017 17:37:19 GMT
Those races succeeded because they were only used in passing. They didn't have the animation suites to be used more broadly. In theory, they could have had such content. In practice, I don't see how that design passes an ROI test. (Which, of course, is why humanoid races were dominant in the trilogy in the first place.) If you're asking for one or two cameo races in ME:A, that's a different argument. Probably could have been done; you can kill one of the existing planets and replace it with one with the non-humanoid race, and bring it in for about the same cost. Although, again, I'm not certain why this is a real problem for ME:A when it wasn't one in the 70s-90s SF which was the source material, and nobody complained about all the humanoids in the trilogy. My point about SGU was that the fanbase didn't accept the shift in tone. The reason why this is a problem for ME:A is because you'd expect a completely different galaxy to actually feel different. It could absolutely have been done, like I said, the opposing alien species shouldn't even be the main focus of the game, the main focus should be survival despite the hostile nature of the Andromeda galaxy. The alien species should be a factor that comes in towards the middle of the game. I realize that this would drastically change the game as combat would be much less frequent but it makes so much more sense, to me at least. And about the fanbase not accepting a tone, well it was clear that this was going to be a different saga, a fresh start almost. That includes making some changes in tone and gameplay, but I believe that if they were executed well and helped provide a compelling narrative that leads to a satisfying conclusion, people wouldn't have much reason to complain. |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 3, 2017 18:26:14 GMT
You would? I'd expect one galaxy in the MEU to feel just like another. Evolution works the same everywhere. Which galaxy the planet's star is located is wouldn't matter.
Of course, we are talking "feel" rather than "think, " so YMMV.
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 5, 2017 15:27:32 GMT
Well the thing is that Mass Effect has succeeded before in creating non humanoid alien species, look at the Rachni or the Elcor, or the Hanar. Those are some creative designs and they could've easily pulled off something along those lines for Mass Effect Andromeda. There could be a humanoid alien species in Andromeda, but don't make it the first one we meet, and put a little more thought to it rather than just hunky dudes with bones on their faces or buffy Twi'leks. The design just felt lazy in MEA's case. As for the plot, yes I've heard this type of idea compared to Stargate Universe before, I think I've only seen an episode or two of that show a very long time ago, but I believe this type of plot could have huge potential. It would have fit perfectly with the idea of a pathfinder, leading the whole human species essentially and bearing that weight on his shoulder from one decision to the next. Instead of the Tempest, have the pathfinder lead Ark Hyperion, you're going through an unmapped galaxy, from one planet to another, evaluating them and seeing if there is a possibility for colonization. Leave it up to the player whether you want to risk colonizing a certain planet or not and deal with the consequences if you made a bad choice. This hasn't got anything to do with being 'lazy'. It's a general ME thing (mentioned multiple times across the codecies and books) that the universe appears to favour bipedalism, due to the evolutionary advantages it offers. The few intelligent species in ME tend to hail from planets that in the extreme minority, either as a planet itself (water world for Hanar, high-g planet that also resides in the life zone for Elcor), or a planet with that doesn't normally give rise to intelligent life (such as the Rachni). We actually see the Angara homeworld in this and it is very similar to most garden worlds, so insisting that they must be giant insects or something is essentially just a demand you're making with no real logical basis. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could have had giant insects or Shadow monsters or something but from what we've seen so far, there is no hard reason for it. AlanC9 has mentioned multiple times that the basic bipedalism idea is itself a bit of handwave, but it's been a part of ME since the start, so it doesn't make sense to suddenly have issues with this now. The fact it's a different galaxy doesn't make any difference as all species in the MW evolved in isolation too. As for the Ark idea - the problem is we're getting into basic game design here. It's fundamentally bad design to force the player into making major decisions which may well pan out as an endgame without clear warnings, and clear warnings bring accusations of handholding. It's not as simple as you think. If I screwed up and it turned out that my main colony was founded on a world like out of Pitch Black and the place was mashed when the creatures arrive, that wouldn't be fun. If the game told me that there was something below the surface then it wouldn't realistically be any different to what we have now. There's a very fine balance to keep here. |
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