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Post by vonuber on Jul 29, 2017 18:37:23 GMT
Besides, I'm not putting forth a serious idea for BioWare to follow, I'm talking about my own personal preferences. So you would want more Shep, more of the citadel, more Tali, more Garrus etc - basically nothing new?
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Post by Steelcan on Jul 29, 2017 18:39:30 GMT
Retreading the MW is Andromeda's job already. Going back to the Milky Way at least drops all the pretenses from it. Besides, I'm not putting forth a serious idea for BioWare to follow, I'm talking about my own personal preferences. Fair enough and I agree the Nexus, among other things are elements redone for this spinoff, but it's a lousy premise to keep the series in the Milky Way for myriad reasons above, and your preferences for setting would be part of a game that would have been a true financial disaster, in my opinion. It's bad writing. Even worse than the Nickelodeon tween romance arcs in ME:A Ehhh I doubt it. If they canonized an ending going forwards, sure they'd upset some hardcore fans, but the vast majority of people don't finish games they buy, so I doubt it would be a huge financial downturn.
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Post by Steelcan on Jul 29, 2017 18:41:46 GMT
Besides, I'm not putting forth a serious idea for BioWare to follow, I'm talking about my own personal preferences. So you would want more Shep, more of the citadel, more Tali, more Garrus etc - basically nothing new? Not necessarily. I think Shepard and his crew's story is done (maybe not Liara and Wrex but writ large), I'd have preferred a new crew in the aftermath of the Reaper War. Ideally BW would be able to resist the urge to bring back the old crew at every chance. And lets not pretend Andromeda brought anything new.
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Post by kino on Jul 29, 2017 18:42:16 GMT
I just don't see a canon ending being the answer. You go with Destroy, which I agree would be the easier solution, you're going to destroy the stories of anyone who picked Control, Synthesize and, though it was added later, Refuse. I can't see doing that as getting fans to buy into the game premise any longer. If anything it'd chase fans away and that's just throwing away money. Well tough shit for them. I know this isn't going to happen, I'm just saying what I'd like, not what is feasible Ah. Spit balling...got it.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 29, 2017 18:46:45 GMT
Not necessarily. I think Shepard and his crew's story is done (maybe not Liara and Wrex but writ large), I'd have preferred a new crew in the aftermath of the Reaper War. Ideally BW would be able to resist the urge to bring back the old crew at every chance. And lets not pretend Andromeda brought anything new. So just a new crew in a completely trashed setting, which basically makes it a new setting? And you still want all the old races to be there etc? Struggling to see the difference from ME:A to be honest.
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Post by Steelcan on Jul 29, 2017 19:03:39 GMT
Not necessarily. I think Shepard and his crew's story is done (maybe not Liara and Wrex but writ large), I'd have preferred a new crew in the aftermath of the Reaper War. Ideally BW would be able to resist the urge to bring back the old crew at every chance. And lets not pretend Andromeda brought anything new. So just a new crew in a completely trashed setting, which basically makes it a new setting? And you still want all the old races to be there etc? Struggling to see the difference from ME:A to be honest. For one we'd be spared the extra step of having new civilizations that are direct analogues to ones we've already met
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Post by vonuber on Jul 29, 2017 19:08:24 GMT
For one we'd be spared the extra step of having new civilizations that are direct analogues to ones we've already met So? We'd still have them just under a different name. Still can't see the difference here - ME:A is basically the continuation given how similar a lot of it is.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 29, 2017 20:15:25 GMT
I mean ideally, head back to the Milky Way, canonize Destroy as the canonical continuity of the ME verse, take it from there. I just don't see a canon ending being the answer. You go with Destroy, which I agree would be the easier solution, you're going to destroy the stories of anyone who picked Control, Synthesize and, though it was added later, Refuse. I can't see doing that as getting fans to buy into the game premise any longer. If anything it'd chase fans away and that's just throwing away money. I've never really followed this argument. It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others' stories. Which doesn't make it untrue, of course.
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Post by mannyray on Jul 29, 2017 20:34:40 GMT
I just don't see a canon ending being the answer. You go with Destroy, which I agree would be the easier solution, you're going to destroy the stories of anyone who picked Control, Synthesize and, though it was added later, Refuse. I can't see doing that as getting fans to buy into the game premise any longer. If anything it'd chase fans away and that's just throwing away money. I've never really followed this argument. It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others' stories. Which doesn't make it untrue, of course. If you have a canon ending then every single person who played the game's choices are rendered irrelevant. You're looking at it as if you're the only person playing the game, i.e. "It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others stories"
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 29, 2017 20:48:52 GMT
What's a canon ending?
(/facetiousness)
Seriously, though, that's just players making trouble for themselves.
And you've got it entirely backwards. It's not that I'm the only person playing the game, it's that other playthroughs are irrelevant to any particular playthrough, whoever plays them. If anything, other people's Shepards are less relevant, if you can go lower the zero.
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Post by kino on Jul 29, 2017 20:56:47 GMT
I just don't see a canon ending being the answer. You go with Destroy, which I agree would be the easier solution, you're going to destroy the stories of anyone who picked Control, Synthesize and, though it was added later, Refuse. I can't see doing that as getting fans to buy into the game premise any longer. If anything it'd chase fans away and that's just throwing away money. I've never really followed this argument. It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others' stories. Which doesn't make it untrue, of course. For each ending I picked that particular Shepard's story is true. Since all are true, none are. And since I'm not The Most Interesting Man In The World I doubt I have the cachet to say everyone else must bend the knee to my preferred ending...which, btw, is Refuse. They're all dead, Jim!
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 29, 2017 22:11:58 GMT
So just a new crew in a completely trashed setting, which basically makes it a new setting? And you still want all the old races to be there etc? Struggling to see the difference from ME:A to be honest. For one we'd be spared the extra step of having new civilizations that are direct analogues to ones we've already met If its not already clear, you don't appear to be explaining why redoing everything in the MW will be better then redoing everything in Andromeda. Your argument for going back to the MW is the same reason you've given for why you dislike Andromeda as a setting.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 29, 2017 22:18:05 GMT
What's a canon ending? (/facetiousness) Seriously, though, that's just players making trouble for themselves. And you've got it entirely backwards. It's not that I'm the only person playing the game, it's that other playthroughs are irrelevant to any particular playthrough, whoever plays them. If anything, other people's Shepards are less relevant, if you can go lower the zero. I think the point being made is that currently, any given player can make whatever decisions they wish across the trilogy, and end up with a final MW state that is essentially their personal chronicle of the Shepard saga. If they canonise one ending, then they've effectively labelled a percentage of the options as 'wrong' which will inevitably upset people. FWIW I don't even think canonising an ending is that big a deal, my main issues with continuing in the MW boil down to the Reaper story essentially being the most important even in MW history - following on from that is either going to be a story of inferior importance or blatantly silly as a foe that could have challenged the Reapers suddenly arrives a few years after their 37 million year operation is stopped and it just so happens some plucky hero will arise just in time to stop them. Both options feel pretty unpalatable. At the very least, Andromeda has a lot more potential as a setting and the importance of the story in the OT has basically burned the MW as the setting for a new saga.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 29, 2017 22:21:52 GMT
You haven't articulated a single reason why retreading the MW in light of the obvious pitfalls is a good idea you just want it. Maybe you hate the game but the setting is a nonissue. Retreading the MW is Andromeda's job already. Going back to the Milky Way at least drops all the pretenses from it. Besides, I'm not putting forth a serious idea for BioWare to follow, I'm talking about my own personal preferences. Look we get it you hate Andromeda. Most of us don't and are enjoying it so what you want is not likely what will happen so stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 29, 2017 22:32:44 GMT
Retreading the MW is Andromeda's job already. Going back to the Milky Way at least drops all the pretenses from it. Besides, I'm not putting forth a serious idea for BioWare to follow, I'm talking about my own personal preferences. Look we get it you hate Andromeda. Most of us don't and are enjoying it so what you want is not likely what will happen so stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters. In his defence, he's not - I think the main thing grinding people's gears isn't so much that he's arguing his opinion matters more than anyone, but rather that he's not making any sense (his stance from what he's said so far seems to be words to the effect of 'I hate how Andromeda just rehashes everything so lets move the series back to MW so we can rehash everything and break the canon on the side')
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 29, 2017 22:37:18 GMT
Look we get it you hate Andromeda. Most of us don't and are enjoying it so what you want is not likely what will happen so stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters. In his defence, he's not - I think the main thing grinding people's gears isn't so much that he's arguing his opinion matters more than anyone, but rather that he's not making any sense (his stance from what he's said so far seems to be words to the effect of 'I hate how Andromeda just rehashes everything so lets move the series back to MW so we can rehash everything and break the canon on the side') Yeah but when someone said something to the affect of " we'll that won't work for everyone." His response was "tough shit." That rubs me the wrong way. You
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jul 29, 2017 23:09:27 GMT
What's a canon ending? (/facetiousness) Seriously, though, that's just players making trouble for themselves. And you've got it entirely backwards. It's not that I'm the only person playing the game, it's that other playthroughs are irrelevant to any particular playthrough, whoever plays them. If anything, other people's Shepards are less relevant, if you can go lower the zero. I think the point being made is that currently, any given player can make whatever decisions they wish across the trilogy, and end up with a final MW state that is essentially their personal chronicle of the Shepard saga. If they canonise one ending, then they've effectively labelled a percentage of the options as 'wrong' which will inevitably upset people. FWIW I don't even think canonising an ending is that big a deal, my main issues with continuing in the MW boil down to the Reaper story essentially being the most important even in MW history - following on from that is either going to be a story of inferior importance or blatantly silly as a foe that could have challenged the Reapers suddenly arrives a few years after their 37 million year operation is stopped and it just so happens some plucky hero will arise just in time to stop them. Both options feel pretty unpalatable. At the very least, Andromeda has a lot more potential as a setting and the importance of the story in the OT has basically burned the MW as the setting for a new saga. I'd personally love a Mass Effect game that deals with galactic society in the aftermath of a Reaper War. Ancient forerunner civilizations and blasts from the past are gone, so we can look to the future. On the other hand, there's loose ends to tie up. How do the Krogan manage themselves in a post-Genophage existence? What would a united Quarian-Geth civilization look like? Who joins the new Citadel, and who doesn't? The Batarian Hegemony is completely destroyed but hundreds of millions if not billions of Batarians still live in Terminus space and need to build a new government. Pre-spaceflight species such as the Yahg are none the worse for wear following the war; what happens to them? What role does Shepard take, provided he/she survived the events of the series, and what role do the Reapers fill if they weren't destroyed? And what about the Leviathans? Are the former rulers of the galaxy content to hide on an isolated ocean world or do they view the chaos as a chance to rebuild their lost empire? We get little hints of most of these (and other things) in the epilogue, but only to a certain degree. Of course, handling these in another game would require canonizing an ending, but I myself would not mind.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 29, 2017 23:56:11 GMT
I've never really followed this argument. It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others' stories. Which doesn't make it untrue, of course. If you have a canon ending then every single person who played the game's choices are rendered irrelevant. You're looking at it as if you're the only person playing the game, i.e. "It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others stories" Well, I guess my BG1 playthroughs were all irrelevant ...
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Post by mannyray on Jul 30, 2017 0:13:33 GMT
If you have a canon ending then every single person who played the game's choices are rendered irrelevant. You're looking at it as if you're the only person playing the game, i.e. "It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others stories" Well, I guess my BG1 playthroughs were all irrelevant ... BG1 did have a canon ending, yes, because it presumed to had certain companions with you the whole time at the game's very beginning. Without giving spoilers here, the better parallel would be the ending of BG2: Throne of Baal, which has options thematically similiar to the choices laid out at the end of ME:3. If they had come out with a Baldur's Gate 3 and imposed one of those choices as a canon ending, the effect would be similiar to what we're talking about with setting a fourth ME game in the Milky Way. When a player changes the ending from one playthrough to another, it's still their character and their choice.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 30, 2017 0:48:07 GMT
If you have a canon ending then every single person who played the game's choices are rendered irrelevant. You're looking at it as if you're the only person playing the game, i.e. "It's not like all my Shepards destroy each others stories" Well, I guess my BG1 playthroughs were all irrelevant ... For those who didn't play it, BG2 stuck people with what was apparently a canon BG1 playthrough . Your character imported, but what imported was just the stats, class, level, and a couple of inventory items. It's got one of those "you are captured by the Big Bad and have to escape" starts, and the people you've been captured with are one of the more likely good parties. Doesn't matter if you were enemies in BG1, or even if you killed them. This is actually a lot worse than what we're talking about for ME; I don't think anybody's proposing both a canon MET ending and bringing Shepard back.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 30, 2017 0:51:53 GMT
Well, I guess my BG1 playthroughs were all irrelevant ... BG1 did have a canon ending, yes, because it presumed to had certain companions with you the whole time at the game's very beginning. Without giving spoilers here, the better parallel would be the ending of BG2: Throne of Baal, which has options thematically similiar to the choices laid out at the end of ME:3. If they had come out with a Baldur's Gate 3 and imposed one of those choices as a canon ending, the effect would be similiar to what we're talking about with setting a fourth ME game in the Milky Way. When a player changes the ending from one playthrough to another, it's still their character and their choice. Wait a second. How come it wouldn't work for BG3 when it did work for BG2? You're not making clear what you believe the difference is.
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Post by mannyray on Jul 30, 2017 1:00:49 GMT
BG1 did have a canon ending, yes, because it presumed to had certain companions with you the whole time at the game's very beginning. Without giving spoilers here, the better parallel would be the ending of BG2: Throne of Baal, which has options thematically similiar to the choices laid out at the end of ME:3. If they had come out with a Baldur's Gate 3 and imposed one of those choices as a canon ending, the effect would be similiar to what we're talking about with setting a fourth ME game in the Milky Way. When a player changes the ending from one playthrough to another, it's still their character and their choice. Wait a second. How come it wouldn't work for BG3 when it did work for BG2? You're not making clear what you believe the difference is. The ending of BG2 is more satisfying because any D and D game that game out after did not refer back to BG2 as having a canon ending making the choice for the player. I never said it worked for the beginning of BG2. The characters that were designated as canon companions from BG1 could have been written into the beginning of BG2 without deciding for the player that they adventured with them in the first game.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 30, 2017 2:10:50 GMT
Well, I guess my BG1 playthroughs were all irrelevant ... For those who didn't play it, BG2 stuck people with what was apparently a canon BG1 playthrough . Your character imported, but what imported was just the stats, class, level, and a couple of inventory items. It's got one of those "you are captured by the Big Bad and have to escape" starts, and the people you've been captured with are one of the more likely good parties. Doesn't matter if you were enemies in BG1, or even if you killed them. This is actually a lot worse than what we're talking about for ME; I don't think anybody's proposing both a canon MET ending and bringing Shepard back. Plus several characters can be encountered who could be dead in the first game. And if "a lot worse" could work (and hey, BG2 is generally considered superior to BG1 in every way) then what's the problem with a canon outcome for Mass Effect? Just make a canon that doesn't favor anyone's so no one can claim favoritism.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 30, 2017 2:17:30 GMT
And if "a lot worse" could work (and hey, BG2 is generally considered superior to BG1 in every way) then what's the problem with a canon outcome for Mass Effect? Just make a canon that doesn't favor anyone's so no one can claim favoritism. What if they use the playthrough in my signature as canon? I doubt many folks did a playthrough like that. I could see this forum light up if they did. excellent.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 30, 2017 2:26:37 GMT
And if "a lot worse" could work (and hey, BG2 is generally considered superior to BG1 in every way) then what's the problem with a canon outcome for Mass Effect? Just make a canon that doesn't favor anyone's so no one can claim favoritism. What if they use the playthrough in my signature as canon? I doubt many folks did a playthrough like that. I could see this forum light up if they did. excellent. Elcor: Curious tone: What was that exactly? Can't read on Mobile.
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