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Post by suikoden on Jul 28, 2017 7:20:19 GMT
"Bioware’s gay representation hasn’t been perfect. The original Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 didn’t feature any same-sex relationships for men, and the explanation for it, claiming protagonist Commander Shepard was a “defined character,” is unrecognizable compared to the Bioware of today. Even in Andromeda there’s a distinct lack of options for gay men, and the two that are there have notably less content than other romantic interests in the game. But in my romantic relationships with Gil and Dorian I’ve seen more of the life I’ve lived as a gay man than with Sky in Jade Empire or Zevran in Dragon Age Origins, where the queer aspects of our relationships were defined strictly by our being men, rather than any real portrayal of what makes a queer relationship different than a straight one. While there’s still a ways to go, stories like Gil’s show that Bioware knows how to leverage its own fiction to go beyond visibility and really dissect issues happening in the real world within the ones it’s created." www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/07/with-mass-effect-andromeda-bioware-improved-on-its.htmlAnyone else notice how, despite whatever you think about the quality of the game's writing overall, Bioware has improved with respect to how they write their gay romances in particular? Is Andromeda the pinnacle so far, or arguably would Inquisition come out ahead here? Curious what people think.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2017 7:53:22 GMT
Inquisition is Bioware's best game when it comes to LGBT+ representation, but Andromeda is definitely better than the Shepard Trilogy.
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ioannisdenton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Jul 28, 2017 8:00:27 GMT
I generally dislike forced political stuff and sexual orienration as it truly interests noone. i do nt care about your preference. Just don't shove it in my face. With that said Dorian was truly a bioware standout for me. I loved him as a character , his V.o was superb , his story was touching and he was a badass mofo sometimes. Krem was also a fun character! Crem de la crem I also enhjoyed zevran as a character altough he was too hungry for sex. lol Mr David Gaider truly i kneel to him for the world and characters he created. He has given me way too many goosebumps. He is responsible for one of my favorite games. Gil i disliked at first but he is an nice character after all. my first impressions were : Why force us a gay charactwr on ship? (COrtez had the same impact for me he was nice after all too) he is quite nice and no doubt he will grow in Mea2 given the chance. So yeah the high point for me is Dorian and yea Bioware is getting better p.s : You are on a roll posting,huh?
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jul 28, 2017 8:05:40 GMT
The game has multiple problems in the design front, problematic writing, uninteresting villains, lack of imagination and ton of bugs and animation quirks. But the LGBT community is happy which is nice I guess...
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Post by colfoley on Jul 28, 2017 8:29:30 GMT
Inquisition is Bioware's best game when it comes to LGBT+ representation, but Andromeda is definitely better than the Shepard Trilogy. You should have ended this post with *mic drop*
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kelarqshah
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Post by kelarqshah on Jul 28, 2017 12:02:08 GMT
Is Andromeda the pinnacle so far, or arguably would Inquisition come out ahead here? Curious what people think. Inquisition definitely had the best representation in terms of player choice, but I think Gil's storyline in Andromeda deserves special praise. We've seen more representation of LGBT characters across gaming, and in terms of interaction with these characters, Bioware is probably at the forefront (notable missteps such as Hainley Abrams notwithstanding). But although we have more diversity in terms of the characters presented, we don't have as much diversity in terms of the kinds of relationships we see. I remember as a kid watching Mrs Doubtfire being confused that the parents didn't get back together at the end of the film. I know some of my friends who had divorced parents were really struck by that - that the happy ending could be that the parents stay divorced, but on much better terms.
Gil's relationship with Jill, and potentially with Ryder, and their willingness to bring a baby into the universe together and co-parent as a non-romantic couple/triple, I thought was really beautiful.
It's a non-traditional view on kids and parenting. In the last century we've seen it become acceptable to have children out of wedlock, to be single parents, to be happily divorced.
At this very moment kids are growing up with same-sex parents, transgender parents, or even parents who are simply best friends. All that matters at the end of the day is that they love those kids and offer them the best possible start. And its really, really cool that media is recognising those kinds of relationships. And that hopefully, with this sort of recognition, those kids can grow up feeling like they come from a home that's just as normal as everyone else's.
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danishgambit
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Post by danishgambit on Jul 28, 2017 15:29:16 GMT
Suvi was really cringey. It was like something out of a disney movie - and not the animated ones from back in the day either.
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Jul 28, 2017 15:39:18 GMT
Bioware is actually quite good at developing gay/bi characters: Zevran, Dorian, Iron Bull, Gil, Cortez. The only failure is when they made everyone in DA:2 bissexual just because they were out of time to truly explore character's sexuality.
And no gay/bi characters are "forced": Gay people exist. If you have a game where you'll meet A LOT of people, some of them are likely to be gay. Also, it's good for the LGBT community to feel well represented.
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Post by rolenka on Jul 28, 2017 17:59:19 GMT
On the subject, what did they do to improve the Gil romance? The update notes didn't clarify.
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kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jul 28, 2017 18:07:26 GMT
I thought DA:I handled LBGTQ issues better, I found them more meaningful, but ME:A certainly followed that framework.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 28, 2017 18:17:11 GMT
Inquisition is Bioware's best game when it comes to LGBT+ representation, but Andromeda is definitely better than the Shepard Trilogy. This. Though my favorite so far has been ME3 Kaidan m/m. But that's more personal than socio-political.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 18:28:41 GMT
I preferred Andromeda to Inquisition in the way the strictly MM relationship was handled. Gil was nice, joined the crew right at the start of the game, was upfront about being gay. Reyes joined late in the game, his romantic arc could be intertwined with the rest of the game, and he was bi, so no need to reroll if you've liked him as a female.
In Inquisition, Dorian being so central to the story, joining late in the game, being hyper-attractive compared to every other male in the entourage and leading the female PC on was a bad way to handle the matter as it forced a re-roll after many hours invested in the game.
I was happy to hear that Jaal's romance was unlocked for the male PCs as well, since he was the only Angara character on the crew.
Also, I really liked how the Avitus and Macen story was handled, without any sensationalism to it, but conveying the feelings so well.
Dunno about the LGBTQ community, but I felt that in Andromeda the world was diverse in its representation of romance, while not putting a non-gay player at a disadvantage.
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Origin: d8lock
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jul 28, 2017 19:45:54 GMT
Suvi was really cringey. It was like something out of a disney movie - and not the animated ones from back in the day either. She's the worst character in the game IMO. I'd pay money for a mod to change her shitty voice to something normal.
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 28, 2017 19:49:28 GMT
I thought DA:I handled LBGTQ issues better, I found them more meaningful, but ME:A certainly followed that framework. They did better job then ME trilogy. I still remember when one BioWare dev on ME1 team tried to argue that Asari have no gender, so FemShep-Liara romance wasn't a lesbian romance. It really was a big change since then. While DA:I did it better, it still a continuation of progression from BioWare.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2017 20:40:46 GMT
Suvi was really cringey. It was like something out of a disney movie - and not the animated ones from back in the day either. Out of curiosity, in what way was it "super cringey" and "out of a Disney movie"?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2017 20:42:47 GMT
I thought DA:I handled LBGTQ issues better, I found them more meaningful, but ME:A certainly followed that framework. They did better job then ME trilogy. I still remember when one BioWare dev on ME1 team tried to argue that Asari have no gender, so FemShep-Liara romance wasn't a lesbian romance. It really was a big change since then. While DA:I did it better, it still a continuation of progression from BioWare. That was ME2, actually. It was Casey Hudson, who is now back as GM. He argued that Shepard was canonically straight thus no same-sex options. People brought up Femshep with Liara, thus he said the Asari weren't really female(despite the lore contradicting that). Then people brought up Femshep and Kelly, and that was when he finally backed away from his earlier comments.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 28, 2017 21:05:46 GMT
That was ME2, actually. It was Casey Hudson, who is now back as GM. He argued that Shepard was canonically straight thus no same-sex options. People brought up Femshep with Liara, thus he said the Asari weren't really female(despite the lore contradicting that). Then people brought up Femshep and Kelly, and that was when he finally backed away from his earlier comments. Proving that saying something is not always preferable to saying nothing. Speaking of the interviews, they are goldmine for interesting information and despite what I might indicate below, not just for the laugh value. Guest-740: "will we hear or see anything involving Saren again or will he just be forgoten in ME2 (liked how i skipped the first round with him in ME1 with my paragon response)(i like demos )" CaseyH-ME2: "Saren was obviously a huge part of how the main story launched, and you can expect his shadow to cast across the trilogy in some form."
Ah yes, Saren. How far his long shadow reached across the trilogy Guest-183: "Casey, can you give us FemShep Players an exact number of how many female / female romance options are in ME2? And are there other options for us than with an Asari?" CaseyH-ME2 (To Guest-183): "There were no female/female romances in ME1, same with ME2. Most people count Tali, but her species is female-looking but asexual. Female shepards (and males) will have 3 possible love interests (if I count correctly!)"
That's either a name mix-up by the transcript or by Casey Hudson but the point remains: it's completely wrong. Oh and you heard it here, folks, the asari are biologically asexual meaning no genitalia. Any implied intercourse with physical bits were purely your imagination! Source: www.giantbomb.com/mass-effect-2/3030-21590/forums/mass-effect-2-qa-with-producer-casey-hudson-382636/
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 28, 2017 21:23:19 GMT
That was ME2, actually. It was Casey Hudson, who is now back as GM. He argued that Shepard was canonically straight thus no same-sex options. People brought up Femshep with Liara, thus he said the Asari weren't really female(despite the lore contradicting that). Then people brought up Femshep and Kelly, and that was when he finally backed away from his earlier comments. Proving that saying something is not always preferable to saying nothing. Speaking of the interviews, they are goldmine for interesting information and despite what I might indicate below, not just for the laugh value. Guest-740: "will we hear or see anything involving Saren again or will he just be forgoten in ME2 (liked how i skipped the first round with him in ME1 with my paragon response)(i like demos )" CaseyH-ME2: "Saren was obviously a huge part of how the main story launched, and you can expect his shadow to cast across the trilogy in some form."
Ah yes, Saren. How far his long shadow reached across the trilogy Guest-183: "Casey, can you give us FemShep Players an exact number of how many female / female romance options are in ME2? And are there other options for us than with an Asari?" CaseyH-ME2 (To Guest-183): "There were no female/female romances in ME1, same with ME2. Most people count Tali, but her species is female-looking but asexual. Female shepards (and males) will have 3 possible love interests (if I count correctly!)"
That's either a name mix-up by the transcript or by Casey Hudson but the point remains: it's completely wrong. Oh and you heard it here, folks, the asari are biologically asexual meaning no genitalia. Any implied intercourse with physical bits were purely your imagination! Source: www.giantbomb.com/mass-effect-2/3030-21590/forums/mass-effect-2-qa-with-producer-casey-hudson-382636/He was wrong plain and simple. Still it's nice to have him back.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 28, 2017 21:36:12 GMT
Anyone else notice how, despite whatever you think about the quality of the game's writing overall, Bioware has improved with respect to how they write their gay romances in particular? Is Andromeda the pinnacle so far, or arguably would Inquisition come out ahead here? Curious what people think.Since I don't play the gay romances and never will, my thoughts on the matter are that I'll leave it up to the folks who play them and care about them to comment on them.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Jul 28, 2017 21:42:40 GMT
Did everyone here forget the hostility when jaal wasn't bi?
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 28, 2017 21:48:37 GMT
Did everyone here forget the hostility when jaal wasn't bi? I was supposed to experience hostility when Jaal wasn't bi? I probably didn't because I didn't participate or read any threads about that. I only entered the sexuality conversations when they changed Jaal's sexuality - I'm against that on principle. For instance, I'm not for making Suvi bisexual. Regardless, none of it is a matter worth getting "hostile" about from my perspective.
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danishgambit
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A master of his game
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Post by danishgambit on Jul 28, 2017 22:13:56 GMT
Suvi was really cringey. It was like something out of a disney movie - and not the animated ones from back in the day either. Out of curiosity, in what way was it "super cringey" and "out of a Disney movie"?
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 28, 2017 22:26:39 GMT
Out of curiosity, in what way was it "super cringey" and "out of a Disney movie"? Still not as cringey (to me) as, say, Liara's mom's death scene, Shep's lame-o wheedling of Jeong (particularly Paragon choices) while trying to save the Feros colony, Ash/Kaidan pissy speech on Horizon in ME2, their attitude throughout most of ME3, or Miranda's bitchy attitude (hey, I just worked for two years to resurrect you now I'm going to treat you like shit) at the beginning of ME2 - just to name a few things off the top of my head. My point? Mass Effect and cringe have always been friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 22:41:54 GMT
I prefered DAI I wasnt necessarily displeased by the romance options although idk they could have been better for me But compare Sera in DAI to Vetra in MEA and well... Vetras romance was lacking well... everything, I was like "Oh... is that it?" when I first played the game, the romance scenes when it actually came to the kissing/love part... there really wasnt one tbh. Mass Effect 1 had a better romance scene, I have no idea about ME2 or 3 because I never romanced anyone in ME2 and havent completed ME3 yet, dragon age origins had better romance scenes, dragon age 2 had better romance scenes, dragon age inquisition had WAY better romance scenes... Vetras romance was a huge let down for me, I had high hopes after the "I love you"s but nope, nothing... *sigh* I know shes a Turian, but something would have been better... meanwhile I said no to Peebee because it was a ninjamance and I really dont want to romance Suvi despite being a sucker for a redhead and accents like hers so...
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normandy
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Post by normandy on Jul 28, 2017 22:45:08 GMT
Inquisition was way better. Dorian and Bull were major characters with a lot of dialogues and fit the story very well. Gil story just boggles the mind, 90% of his dialogue involves Jill and the baby thing was handled badly. Reyes is better, but his romance is pretty tied up to Kadara and sometimes feels like he was written as straight at first and then changed to bi.
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