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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 1, 2017 20:06:36 GMT
Even so, Its far more plausible that DLC won't get made due to a scheduling conflict (say, the DLC golden period clashing with the last big chance for a reorg prior to major releases) rather than DLC plans being cancelled because of people talking smack. Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that if we don't get a DLC it will because EA moved people around and not because it was cancelled? If they're not making DLC due to people being moved and reorganised then I doubt there was ever DLC to cancel, as this process has apparently been going on since January.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 1, 2017 20:08:32 GMT
Note that these are not mutually exclusive positions. ME:A could have earned out and still not be worth making DLC for. I'm not really convinced by this tbh - if the DLC is coming any time in the next few weeks, then it must have been in development prior to release (at which stage sales weren't known), and if DLC underwent dev once sales had been established, then its hard to understand how a game can sell well enough for it to be a success but not well enough for EA to capitalise on a sunk cost (DLC wouldn't be so common if it's expense-to-profit ratio wasn't good). Even so, Its far more plausible that DLC won't get made due to a scheduling conflict (say, the DLC golden period clashing with the last big chance for a reorg prior to major releases) rather than DLC plans being cancelled because of people talking smack. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "ME:A broke even" rather than "ME:A was solidly profitable" there. But yeah, I can see how the reorg could trump DLC, assuming that the DLC was fairly marginal.
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Post by SofNascimento on Aug 1, 2017 20:15:48 GMT
Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that if we don't get a DLC it will because EA moved people around and not because it was cancelled? If they're not making DLC due to people being moved and reorganised then I doubt there was ever DLC to cancel, as this process has apparently been going on since January. If they don't make a DLC, it certainly won't be because they are moving people. That's like throwing money away. Not to mention I doubt changes such as this one make a developer lose much, of any, time. (if we assume they would just move 100 guys from here to there)
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 1, 2017 20:20:36 GMT
My counterpart a few days ago showed a list of the top selling games by month since March and while games like Zelda and Horizon held their own reallt well, MEA slipped further down than Zelda and Horizon and and at a faster rate. This shows that after the preorder sales were sold, the game had a huge drop in sales. But as always, people tried to discredit that as well so....yeah. People discredit them because the sales don't take account in things like digital sales. And considering that the games above MEA also didnt have their digital scores factored in, that pretty much offsets that argument. Also, Horizon was only on one console....
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 1, 2017 20:21:28 GMT
If they're not making DLC due to people being moved and reorganised then I doubt there was ever DLC to cancel, as this process has apparently been going on since January. If they don't make a DLC, it certainly won't be because they are moving people. That's like throwing money away. Not to mention I doubt changes such as this one make a developer lose much, of any, time. (if we assume they would just move 100 guys from here to there) Actually merging a full studio like this is a significant undertaking, and any software company with any competence would likely not schedule something like this coincide with any release. I've been through two office moves in the space of a few years involving far fewer people and it's a lot more complicated than people realise. If this move was actually to support some broader strategic goal regarding their future releases, then realistically DLC projects would be unlikely to be greenlit. On the subject of throwing money away - cancelling a project is a far more blatant example of that then choosing not to pursue a project in the first place.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Aug 1, 2017 20:24:13 GMT
Do you have any evidence for a "huge drop off in sales"? I think the goalposts of "expecting dlc" and "not expecting dlc" are fairly inflexible. Since Bioware have said nothing to change anyone's mind either way, there really hasn't been much opportunity to move any goalposts. Although those who are decidedly against Andromeda have managed to move their goalposts so much I'm not even sure where they are anymore. They've gone from hurling abuse at devs because "SJWs", to now trying to convince themselves that when EA says something they really mean the opposite. And being fooled by a scam certainly didn't do some people any favours... To be clear, I'm not saying skepticism over any dlc isn't justified. Indeed, there is evidence to suggest it isn't coming, just as there is evidence to suggest it still might. But as you say, time is running out either way... My counterpart a few days ago showed a list of the top selling games by month since March and while games like Zelda and Horizon held their own reallt well, MEA slipped further down than Zelda and Horizon and and at a faster rate. This shows that after the preorder sales were sold, the game had a huge drop in sales. Which means that perhaps the review scores and internet memes and videos had a huge hit on sales which prevented the game from having the strong staying power of say ME3 or ME2 or even DAI for that matter. But as always, people tried to discredit that as well so....yeah. You really are clueless...MEA hade better staying power than ME3 and DAI, opened better than ME2 according to NPD. Opened bettter than DAI according VGchartz.
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Post by SofNascimento on Aug 1, 2017 20:30:20 GMT
If they don't make a DLC, it certainly won't be because they are moving people. That's like throwing money away. Not to mention I doubt changes such as this one make a developer lose much, of any, time. (if we assume they would just move 100 guys from here to there) Actually merging a full studio like this is a significant undertaking, and any software company with any competence would likely not schedule something like this coincide with any release. I've been through two office moves in the space of a few years involving far fewer people and it's a lot more complicated than people realise. If this move was actually to support some broader strategic goal regarding their future releases, then realistically DLC projects would be unlikely to be greenlit. On the subject of throwing money away - cancelling a project is a far more blatant example of that then choosing not to pursue a project in the first place. Not really. Cancelling a project would be cutting your loses. Companies to this. In your scenario, I'm assuming Mass Effect Andromeda would had been a success, but EA wouldn't be able to captalize on that because they would be moving the team to a different building. And that just doesn't sound logical to me, at all. Let me ask you another question. Say MEA get no DLC, you still would say that Jason Schreier was wrong? That his reporting of Andromeda post content and sequel being cancelled because of its recepetion is a lie?
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 1, 2017 20:31:05 GMT
My counterpart a few days ago showed a list of the top selling games by month since March and while games like Zelda and Horizon held their own reallt well, MEA slipped further down than Zelda and Horizon and and at a faster rate. This shows that after the preorder sales were sold, the game had a huge drop in sales. Which means that perhaps the review scores and internet memes and videos had a huge hit on sales which prevented the game from having the strong staying power of say ME3 or ME2 or even DAI for that matter. But as always, people tried to discredit that as well so....yeah. You really are clueless...MEA hade better staying power than ME3 and DAI, opened better than ME2 according to NPD. Opened bettter than DAI according VGchartz. So why hasnt EA announced that MEA sales were an improvement over DAI? Or if it broke DAIs records? These arent details EA just stays mute on.
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 1, 2017 20:50:10 GMT
Not really. Cancelling a project would be cutting your loses. Companies to this. In your scenario, I'm assuming Mass Effect Andromeda would had been a success, but EA wouldn't be able to captalize on that because they would be moving the team to a different building. And that just doesn't sound logical to me, at all. Think this through - if the DLC was under development, what possible benefit could there be of getting rid of it midway through? The expensive parts have already been paid for. Distribution costs peanuts. And clearly they still had people working on the MP portion, so it's not like they closed up shop. Given EA's track record, MEA would have to have been a financial disaster for this to make any sense. You're asking two questions here. Clearly, if no DLC is coming, then he'd be right. Whether the reasons for cancellation were a lie (or more likely, a bit of jounrnalistic embellishment) would depend on what the reasons actually were. If it had been cancelled then I would assume that there would have been some content made, and this guy's articles in the past (particularly the Destiny article) have made a point of delving into stuff like this. No such insight is present here. We don't even know what it was about. Given that he presumably knew about this merger but chose to present it as 'downsizing' (if he didn't, his sources can't be that well-informed), I'm afraid I'm not willing to take anything he says purely on faith.
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Post by SofNascimento on Aug 1, 2017 20:53:49 GMT
Given that he presumably knew about this merger but chose to present it as 'downsizing' (if he didn't, his sources can't be that well-informed), I'm afraid I'm not willing to take anything he says purely on faith. He made it clear that people were moved, not fired. And some people are still working on Andromeda, as he made clear. So far everything that he said checks out.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 1, 2017 20:57:27 GMT
Not really. Cancelling a project would be cutting your loses. Companies to this. In your scenario, I'm assuming Mass Effect Andromeda would had been a success, but EA wouldn't be able to captalize on that because they would be moving the team to a different building. And that just doesn't sound logical to me, at all. Think this through - if the DLC was under development, what possible benefit could there be of getting rid of it midway through? Given EA's track record, MEA would have to have been a financial disaster for this to make any sense. Well, how far long was DA2: Exalted March expansion? Just playing devil's advocate here. Clearly (from BioWare's/EA's point-of-view) it was more beneficial to focus on what would be DAi then to finish Exalted March.
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Post by cypherj on Aug 1, 2017 21:00:31 GMT
The one question no one will ever know the answer to, is what were EA's expectations. I don't know the exact expectations, but I don't think that ME:A hit them. Before anyone jumps on all over me, I say this because basic business would say that you want to grow your consumer base over the years, game over game.
ME:2 sold more than DA:O, ME:3 sold more than ME:2, DA:I sold more than ME:3.
All these games received a lot of DLC, and an expansion in DA:O case.
The only game missing is DA:2, the last game that was met with bad reviews and backlash. There may have been some backlash over ME3's endings, but the game still received high reviews, in the 90s on Metacritic IIRC. DA:2 received only two DLCs and had its expansion canceled.
Now, that brings us to ME:A. If you're EA you have to be expecting that ME:A would sell better than DA:I, your last release, or at the very least ME:3 the last Mass Effect game. From everything I can see, it outsold neither, so EA may have looked at it as a disappointment based on their expectations.
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 1, 2017 21:20:07 GMT
Given that he presumably knew about this merger but chose to present it as 'downsizing' (if he didn't, his sources can't be that well-informed), I'm afraid I'm not willing to take anything he says purely on faith. He made it clear that people were moved, not fired. And some people are still working on Andromeda, as he made clear. So far everything that he said checks out. As before, unless you're arguing that he doesn't understand how to speak english properly, then there really isn't much wiggle room here. No journo on earth would innocently describe what now know - i.e. a full merger of two studios in the same city - as 'downsizing', 'scaled down' or whatever else along those lines. They certainly wouldn't forget to make it clear a second time during the edit. Of course he may have honestly misinterpreted what he was told (the whole 'row upon row of desks being empty' thing sticks in my mind - at the time it made it sound like the sky was falling, but empty desks tend to be a thing when you're shifting people to new offices), or even been willfully fed a line by some bioware dev pissed off his commute to work has been extended, but both don't realistically alter the point of being unable to simply trust his word.
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 1, 2017 21:22:22 GMT
Think this through - if the DLC was under development, what possible benefit could there be of getting rid of it midway through? Given EA's track record, MEA would have to have been a financial disaster for this to make any sense. Well, how far long was DA2: Exalted March expansion? Just playing devil's advocate here. Clearly (from BioWare's/EA's point-of-view) it was more beneficial to focus on what would be DAi then to finish Exalted March. Devil's Advocate or not, DA2: Exalted March is probably not a good example in this case as that was cancelled specifically to allow the material to be used in DAI. Unless the argument that this mythical MEA DLC will form the sequel, I'm not sure it maps. And, IIRC, the decision to cancel was the studio's, not EA upper management.
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Post by SofNascimento on Aug 1, 2017 21:32:31 GMT
He made it clear that people were moved, not fired. And some people are still working on Andromeda, as he made clear. So far everything that he said checks out. As before, unless you're arguing that he doesn't understand how to speak english properly, then there really isn't much wiggle room here. No journo on earth would innocently describe what now know - i.e. a full merger of two studios in the same city - as 'downsizing', 'scaled down' or whatever else along those lines. They certainly wouldn't forget to make it clear a second time during the edit. Of course he may have honestly misinterpreted what he was told (the whole 'row upon row of desks being empty' thing sticks in my mind - at the time it made it sound like the sky was falling, but empty desks tend to be a thing when you're shifting people to new offices), or even been willfully fed a line by some bioware dev pissed off his commute to work has been extended, but both don't realistically alter the point of being unable to simply trust his word. My impression is that only part of Bioware Montreal was being moved by that time, and a part remained to work on Andromeda content (patches and online). And even if we assume he chose his words badly, it was soon changed to "scaled down". Honestly, I find that dismissing his credibility just because for 10 minutes the title of his article might have been misleading for some is an huge exaggeration.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 1, 2017 21:46:38 GMT
People discredit them because the sales don't take account in things like digital sales. And considering that the games above MEA also didnt have their digital scores factored in, that pretty much offsets that argument. Also, Horizon was only on one console.... Okay...... they're still unreliable and EA said that they're happy with ME: A.
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Post by fchopin on Aug 1, 2017 22:00:44 GMT
Well, how far long was DA2: Exalted March expansion? Just playing devil's advocate here. Clearly (from BioWare's/EA's point-of-view) it was more beneficial to focus on what would be DAi then to finish Exalted March. Devil's Advocate or not, DA2: Exalted March is probably not a good example in this case as that was cancelled specifically to allow the material to be used in DAI. Unless the argument that this mythical MEA DLC will form the sequel, I'm not sure it maps. And, IIRC, the decision to cancel was the studio's, not EA upper management. They did not cancel the expansion for the reason you gave, they cancelled it because we told them that we would not buy any dlc or expansions unless the y fixed the rubbish act 3 of the game. They did not fix act 3 so they cancelled the expansion because they knew that not enough people would buy it.
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Post by Nord Ronnoc on Aug 1, 2017 22:32:01 GMT
Look, with threads like these and the constant infighting, you're not making playing BioWare games fun.
Knock. It. Off.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 1, 2017 22:35:45 GMT
The one question no one will ever know the answer to, is what were EA's expectations. I don't know the exact expectations, but I don't think that ME:A hit them. Before anyone jumps on all over me, I say this because basic business would say that you want to grow your consumer base over the years, game over game. ME:2 sold more than DA:O, ME:3 sold more than ME:2, DA:I sold more than ME:3. All these games received a lot of DLC, and an expansion in DA:O case. The only game missing is DA:2, the last game that was met with bad reviews and backlash. There may have been some backlash over ME3's endings, but the game still received high reviews, in the 90s on Metacritic IIRC. DA:2 received only two DLCs and had its expansion canceled. Now, that brings us to ME:A. If you're EA you have to be expecting that ME:A would sell better than DA:I, your last release, or at the very least ME:3 the last Mass Effect game. From everything I can see, it outsold neither, so EA may have looked at it as a disappointment based on their expectations. Exactly. MEA did not sell more than DAI.
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Post by michaelm on Aug 1, 2017 22:59:50 GMT
I expected ME:A to be much larger than it ended up being and now there's very little hope left of it ever getting any additional story content, much less a sequel. God this is so depressing. WHY does EA have to ruin everything great? Command and Conquer. SimCity. Mass Effect. Are they gonna find a way to somehow kill off Battlefield as well?
I'm still not going to get this Anthem. I don't care how pretty it looks it's not interesting and I won't drop my favorite RPG for something brand new, ESPECIALLY if that something was made to completely overshadow Mass Effect. It's like a horrible breakup. EA had a bad falling out and now they want to replace her with a much hotter game.
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Post by Guts on Aug 1, 2017 23:08:38 GMT
I'm not a Merger's and Acquisitions expert and I have no intention of being one, but I decided to ask around to see what happens to two companies during a merger. It seems like a few things could happen: 1. EA Motive remains. 2. Bioware Montreal Remains. 3. Both companies remain 4. They merge together but get a new name for the whole studio. (This is just what I got so far, I still need to do some more research)
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Post by coldsteelblue on Aug 1, 2017 23:17:39 GMT
I'm not a Merger's and Acquisitions expert and I have no intention of being one, but I decided to ask around to see what happens to two companies during a merger. It seems like a few things could happen: 1. EA Motive remains. 2. Bioware Montreal Remains. 3. Both companies remain 4. They merge together but get a new name for the whole studio. (This is just what I got so far, I still need to do some more research) Given as how both studio's are currently claiming the same address I'd say option 3 is the most likely, but I know practically bugger-all about this, only that the company I work for is partners with a major supermarket chain & they own a percentage of us & we both work out of the same premises, but independently, but that's about it. Said my piece.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 1, 2017 23:19:15 GMT
Look, with threads like these and the constant infighting, you're not making playing BioWare games fun. Knock. It. Off. The only thing that makes Bioware games fun is Bioware games.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Aug 1, 2017 23:22:33 GMT
Devil's Advocate or not, DA2: Exalted March is probably not a good example in this case as that was cancelled specifically to allow the material to be used in DAI. Unless the argument that this mythical MEA DLC will form the sequel, I'm not sure it maps. And, IIRC, the decision to cancel was the studio's, not EA upper management. They did not cancel the expansion for the reason you gave, they cancelled it because we told them that we would not buy any dlc or expansions unless the y fixed the rubbish act 3 of the game. They did not fix act 3 so they cancelled the expansion because they knew that not enough people would buy it. You're both wrong, it was the move to Frostbite: www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-13-years-later-bioware-reveals-why-dragon-age-2-expansion-exalted-march-was-canned
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Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
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gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 1, 2017 23:22:56 GMT
Look, with threads like these and the constant infighting, you're not making playing BioWare games fun. Knock. It. Off. Don't forget the comments of people, not on BSN boards mind you, who basically say stuff among the lines of, "WAAAH I HATE BIOWARE FOR MAKING THIS INSULT TO GOD I HOPE THEY FUCKING DIE IN A FIRE!" Imagine that freakout by Adam in Arby n the Chief, and you get yourself a good idea of how I feel about some people on the internet. Side note: Restructuring would HOPEFULLY not mean the cancellation of DLC. Didn't Mass Effect Andromeda do well sales wise?
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