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Post by aslightjump on Aug 5, 2017 7:16:10 GMT
I think this argument keeps persisting in this because at least in terms of Bioware, there are no thicknecked unibrowed women with crooked teeth. Sera, who is commonly considered the least attractive of them all, has a symmetrical face with large eyes and blemish-free skin unless you're counting freckles/moles as blemishes, as well as the over-emphasized nose bridge that comes from DA2 elves. Her brows are well-groomed, her lips are plump, she's thin with at least a B-cup. Her teeth are straight and white - as white as DA characters get without mods looking at you DAO. By those standards, she has all the common threads; she just turned out average-looking. As people do.
If we're arguing that they must fit inside the lines of globally standardized beauty to then qualify for 'beauty is subjective', then every single significant human/elf Bioware female fits the qualification AFAIK. They all have imperfections, like Josephine's pronounced nose and Miranda's slightly bulging eyes, but overall they're pretty standard.
EDIT: Vivienne is gorgeous (those cheekbones) and the turian faces - all two of them - are almost as distracting as the Asari clones. (Wasn't it this big thing that turians without facial markings were a big hint they were no bueno, and then you get to MEA and most of them seem not to have facial markings. I mean from the sound of it we did pick up mostly turian outcasts, but it was jarring.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 7:31:33 GMT
Miranda? Pfffffft. Vivenne or go home. If there's any salt from DAI that ruined Andromeda, it's just that Vivienne was too pretty and awesome to make out with any of our Inquisitors. (Miranda has a real lighting issue that occasionally doesn't do her features any favors, a general problem in ME2. And Vivienne is insanely gorgeous.... You know, for my two cents.) Maria Louisa La Valette in TW2 is some the best work of artistic craftsmanship I've seen. She was worth saving out of the dungeon.
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Post by voltangclan on Aug 5, 2017 7:35:31 GMT
You earth clan are so shallow.
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Post by Psychevore on Aug 5, 2017 7:36:54 GMT
You mean what is known in science as the golden ratio? Sorry I do not see its connection to facial symmetry as being evident to attractiveness: Attractiveness also is not just an external item but an internal thinking as well. Sure someone could be attracted physically to someone but without internal intellectual counterpart it is pointless to say that relationship will survive long term. Furthermore please define common threads. Naughty Nomad addressed this above. As far as the golden ratio goes, things like facial symmetry, eye size, among other variables are common threads. I'm not going to spoonfeed you so this can turn into high school debate club where facts take a back seat to verbal/printed argumentative techniques. sure, things like skin tone, or hair length may have different notions of attractiveness throughout the world, but a thicknecked unibrow woman with crooked teeth is ugly the world over. Yeah, let facts take a back seat and ignore standards of beauty like elongated necks, elongated skulls, disks driven through ears or lips or one of the many other practises seen around the world that makes the average Western person quite uncomfortable. It should be painfully obvious that beauty is an almost entirely culturally driven thing and therefore, pretty much by default, isn't set in stone and can be changed... and frequently does. But yeah, lets pretend we're in a high school debate where facts take a back seat, shall we?
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Post by vonuber on Aug 5, 2017 7:56:11 GMT
Let's use Miranda, BioWare's most attractive character, and Sera, their least attractive character, as examples.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2017 8:00:13 GMT
Miranda is BioWare's second most attractive character (being based on Yvonne Stravoski certainly helps), and Cassandra is BioWare's most.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 5, 2017 8:06:42 GMT
Miranda is BioWare's second most attractive character (being based on Yvonne Stravoski certainly helps), and Cassandra is BioWare's most. Seeing what Yvonne Stravoski actually looks like kinda makes it worse, because it only shows how badly she was translated to the game. ME1 Ashley kicks the shit out of Miranda if you ask me.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2017 8:07:49 GMT
Miranda is BioWare's second most attractive character (being based on Yvonne Stravoski certainly helps), and Cassandra is BioWare's most. Seeing what Yvonne Stravoski actually looks like kinda makes it worse, because it only shows how badly she was translated to the game. ME1 Ashley kicks the shit out of Miranda if you ask me. They gave her a fatter face.
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Post by aslightjump on Aug 5, 2017 8:25:46 GMT
Miranda is like they took a 3D face, made it 2D image, and then made that image 3D instead of the original scan. She dips a lot into the uncanny valley to me. Then again, I think Default Sara has the same problem. Obviously meant to be beautiful, but something translated strangely. Luckily Sara still turned out okay. The entire lighting scheme of ME2 is way off so Miranda never stood a chance.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 5, 2017 8:49:31 GMT
Given that her arse gets more screentime than her face, it probably didn't worry them too much.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 5, 2017 13:12:21 GMT
I was hoping this thread wouldn't digress into the universal beauty standards debate.
Let me rephrase the question. Do you think the perceived lack of female beauty in DAI contributed to the MEA hate? And that BW could have avoided a lot of its current problems by making at least one female more traditionally attractive?
(For the record, I believe there are universal beauty standards. Don't look for unbiased answers on Google; UBS is a hot political topic right now. Use Google Scholar and you'll find many peer-reviewed studies that support UBS. Not absolute standards, but general standards dealing with symmetry etc.
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Post by Garo on Aug 5, 2017 13:46:23 GMT
If they game was good (life ME2 or Witcher 3 good) then the way these characters look (not animate) would not make any controversy. Maybe just give Cora long hair, because that seems to be the *big* problem with her for many.
BUT because game is mediocre and characters animate like cyborgs, then it's true that they could at least give us hot looking crew. Like poster model hot. That would make some people more happy. BUT at the same time leftists would start screaming that attractive people don't exist or something, so there would still be some whiners.
At the end of the day it's not really about how people look, it's about how good the game is.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2017 14:31:24 GMT
I was hoping this thread wouldn't digress into the universal beauty standards debate. Why should today be different from any other day? You've played these cards before. Whatever you hoped for, it would have been kind of silly to expect us to end up anywhere but here.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 5, 2017 15:11:49 GMT
If they game was good (life ME2 or Witcher 3 good) then the way these characters look (not animate) would not make any controversy. Maybe just give Cora long hair, because that seems to be the *big* problem with her for many. BUT because game is mediocre and characters animate like cyborgs, then it's true that they could at least give us hot looking crew. Like poster model hot. That would make some people more happy. BUT at the same time leftists would start screaming that attractive people don't exist or something, so there would still be some whiners. At the end of the day it's not really about how people look, it's about how good the game is. I agree with this. If MEA had the quality of ME2 or TW3, then gamers would be able yo overlook thd other faults. But because MEA turned out the way it did, it opened the door for people to hate on many of the other smaller details.
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Post by alihou on Aug 5, 2017 16:21:50 GMT
I'm sorry, but this post is ridiculous op. Off all the excuses people have made for Andromeda, this has got to be the worst. You're blaming another game for Andromedas failure? Eye candy? Come on! I can make a list of fifty other issues with Andromeda before even getting to the romance options. Also I thought Cora looked great.
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Post by duckley on Aug 5, 2017 16:26:01 GMT
Geralt is really homely but we love him anyways. There are many beautiful women in Bioware games. If young men want to see big boobies and beautiful faces in video games who cares? I want to see hunky sexy men in video games too - grant us our wishes in fantasy. As an older woman, I was around for the bra burning the 60's. I consider my self fully liberated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 16:48:50 GMT
Let me rephrase the question. Do you think the perceived lack of female beauty in DAI contributed to the MEA hate? No. /thread
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 5, 2017 17:00:17 GMT
I was hoping this thread wouldn't digress into the universal beauty standards debate. Let me rephrase the question. Do you think the perceived lack of female beauty in DAI contributed to the MEA hate? And that BW could have avoided a lot of its current problems by making at least one female more traditionally attractive? (For the record, I believe there are universal beauty standards. Don't look for unbiased answers on Google; UBS is a hot political topic right now. Use Google Scholar and you'll find many peer-reviewed studies that support UBS. Not absolute standards, but general standards dealing with symmetry etc. That's quite a stretch.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 5, 2017 17:03:27 GMT
Miranda is BioWare's second most attractive character (being based on Yvonne Stravoski certainly helps), and Cassandra is BioWare's most. Seeing what Yvonne Stravoski actually looks like kinda makes it worse, because it only shows how badly she was translated to the game. ME1 Ashley kicks the shit out of Miranda if you ask me. Off topic but I wonder who they based Ash off of. I do not mean this in a racist way but I'm curious since her VA is a black woman I've always wondered who she's based off of.
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Post by warrior on Aug 5, 2017 17:20:27 GMT
Geralt is really homely but we love him anyways. There are many beautiful women in Bioware games. If young men want to see big boobies and beautiful faces in video games who cares? I want to see hunky sexy men in video games too - grant us our wishes in fantasy. As an older woman, I was around for the bra burning the 60's. I consider my self fully liberated. Bahaha that's why I got that beard trimmed no matter what I was doing, just fast traveling in the middle of whatever. I thought he was quite attractive... until the beard grew back out like a dead animal on his face.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 5, 2017 17:58:07 GMT
I think this argument keeps persisting in this because at least in terms of Bioware, there are no thicknecked unibrowed women with crooked teeth. That's a good point. Lacking the extremes on both ends of the curve, the slightest nod towards giving a character's appearance some ... well, character, can come across as ugly. Thus, Cassandra's scar and short hair necessarily force her to the ugly end of the curve, lacking any comparisons that are worse. Even though, in the much broader gamut of every day experience, she's a knock-out. I guess if people insist on criticizing BW games for bias, that's the bias to complain about, the idealization of the appearance curve on both ends of the spectrum. And they can't get away with the excuse of, "Games are escapist, people want to look at idealized characters, not faces they see every day," because that begs the question as to the lack of hypersexualized females, as well as the hyperhomely.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 5, 2017 18:08:07 GMT
Let me rephrase the question. Do you think the perceived lack of female beauty in DAI contributed to the MEA hate? No. And even if it did, the effect would have been dwarfed by the much larger effect of unfulfilled expectations and poor execution of the implementation at release. Even people who were new to the franchise and got their introduction to BW games through MEA hated the bugs and shoddy animations.
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Post by duckley on Aug 5, 2017 18:41:21 GMT
Geralt is really homely but we love him anyways. There are many beautiful women in Bioware games. If young men want to see big boobies and beautiful faces in video games who cares? I want to see hunky sexy men in video games too - grant us our wishes in fantasy. As an older woman, I was around for the bra burning the 60's. I consider my self fully liberated. Bahaha that's why I got that beard trimmed no matter what I was doing, just fast traveling in the middle of whatever. I thought he was quite attractive... until the beard grew back out like a dead animal on his face. Geralt is TW1 was pretty ugly... like wine, he got better with age... and a beard!
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Post by jamiecotc on Aug 5, 2017 19:09:55 GMT
There were quite a few guys out there who were disappointed that Sera wasn't a romantic option for male Inquisitors and as quite a few people have already stated, Cassandra was hot. Tali was one of the most beloved female companions in all of BW and you never see her face. And while symmetry can be pleasing, it can also be boring (like just about every woman in The Witcher series). What typically makes a person (or character) striking, is something that's off. Jack, for instance, could have been a very generic character, but she's truly striking because of her shaved head and tattoos, not in spite of them.
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Post by alihou on Aug 5, 2017 23:20:55 GMT
Another thing I generally do in games is that I role play a character and whatever fits their personality within the game. I don't romance the hottest chick in the game because she's a smoke show...I feel like role play is sacrificed for "bangability"
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