LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 2, 2017 19:43:19 GMT
There were a lot of things wrong with the pre-patch release, and there are still things wrong with the game post-patching that simply shouldn't happen in any game from devs that created DAI and ME3. Identical asari being a good example of a very serious lack of attention to detail.
But I do think the ME3 ending fiasco and the rumours pre-release might have affected the initial "gut feeling" rating, esp when the beginning of the game is less compelling than later on.
Bioware has a reputation for excellence, and after the controversy of the endings, expectations were very high for the next installment to be nearly flawless.
I love the game, but I hope that the reception it had is an eyeopener for Bioware and EA. They can't rest on the successes of the past games or release an unfinished, rushed game like that again.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Aug 2, 2017 19:55:20 GMT
While some of the professional reviews were harsh most of them were pretty fair.
Obviously the trolls on metacritic who posted day one user reviews had not even played it.
I do think people were too harsh when it came to bugs (I don't mean the facial amimation mess) so many minor bugs and glitches that didn't happen often or never happened to some people (I ran into very few bugs myself) and didn't break the game were blown massively out of proportion. This is a semi open world game, they ALWAYS release with a lot of bugs. Inquisition had worse bugs than this on release, fallout 4 and skyrim had massive issues with bugs. The witcher 3 that Bioware games are constantly compared to was released in a far worse state when it came to bugs. So yeah, while seeing videos of characters in a T pose and the running animation glitch I've seen happen in several other games was funny the first few times it got annoying. It's an unfair criticism.
I also think they did better with side quests than inquisition and few people seem to have realised that. Yes there is still tonns of busy work but that was pretty much all there was in inquisition and even the more detailed side quests didn't have cut scenes or choices really in inquisition. Only the companion quests did. This game has several more detailed side plots, they aren't amazing but they are an improvement over Bioware's last game.
They also patched the worst of the animation issues and kept all of their promises on what improvements they were going to do but certain nay sayers act like that hasn't happened.
Other than that I think the game deserves most of the criticism. Inquisition was full of fetch quests and the main story was full of plot holes and very silly in places but it still gave you a cast of characters to actually care about and story moments that felt important. Andromeda had very little of that in my opinion. I did enjoy the game but I don't feel like I want to play it again any time soon.
I'm still not convinced the stuff with Montreal is entirely because of this game. Like it seems like an idea that has been in the works for a while.
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Post by Babar Guy on Aug 2, 2017 19:57:10 GMT
Yes.
It was plain to see even immediately leading up to release that many had made up their minds long ago, and lo and behold: it was memed into oblivion and shitting on it just became the popular thing to do, as people were tripping over themselves to make their own shitty clickbait videos with their super original hot takes on how terrible it is.
Not that there weren't legitimate criticism to be made, because it's definitely a flawed game. I personally consider it good, but not great. It would've needed to be "one of the greatest games ever made" level of quality to even remotely escape the snowball effect of mockery.
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OdanUrr
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by OdanUrr on Aug 2, 2017 20:02:02 GMT
Yes. Also, there is no we. I was not harsh on it. I was about to ask who is "we" and what is considered "harsh."
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DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Aug 2, 2017 20:03:15 GMT
Things that were completely FUBAR in Andromeda at launch:-
1) Face and body animations
2) Character creator
3) Cringey dialogue
4) Lack of Platinum mode in MP
5) Various crash bugs in both SP and MP
6) Asari Clones
Things that have been fixed since patch 1.09 :-
1) Face and body animations
2) Character creator
3) Platinum mode added to MP
4) Crash bugs
Things that remain broken even after patch 1.09 :-
1) Cringey dialogue
2) Asari Clones
So as you can see 4/6 major problems were fixed but there is no redemption for the laziness of the writing and the lack of face models for the Asari. Only a sequel would be able to overcome those problems now. All in all, the game isn't half bad. EA need to learn to listen though when one of their branches says they need more time to polish up.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 2, 2017 20:03:27 GMT
Yet those moaners spread to all the different news articles, giving a great impression of it being a shit game, while also posting memes everywhere and bombarding the staff on social media. EA don't care what is said here, but if they get bombarded with pisstaking and the gaming media jumps on the bandwagon with the moaners, that's what happens. That's not how a company works. They get their data through market research and their very own sales figures. Not through moaning on youtube. It's ridiculous to assume something like that. DA2 had a similar reception and got three DLCs because the company expected revenue based on their own data. Yep. As I understand it, the possibility of DLC is based off sales and, probably more importantly, who is still playing the game. You can sell a gazillion copies but if only you and your dog are still playing a month later then no DLC as nobody will buy it. A game with more modest sales but a deeper base will get DLC as sales are far more likely. That doesn't take into account any outside influences Having said that, obviously media has an indirect effect because it can affect sales. But BioWare/EA are not reading forum posts or watching YouTube to see if DLC are worthwhile. They're looking at sales and number of completed playthroughs.
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Post by abaris on Aug 2, 2017 20:03:55 GMT
Actually, it's ridiculous to think that the media's reception wouldn't have an impact, and the media jumped on the bandwagon like everyone else. It can have an impact by proxy. If a sufficient amount of people decide on not buying based on what they saw on the internet and in the media, thereby turning a product into a failure. In itself it doesn't have any influence on company decisions.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 20:06:14 GMT
Yes.
There seemed to be an almost deliberate or subconscious effort on the net to tank the game by bad word of mouth.
Obviously there were graphical problems and bugs on launch, but what game doesn't have teething problems? Most of these issues were fixed (or at least mitigated) relatively quickly via patches within a fortnight, yet you'd still hear people banging on about them months later.
I personally felt that most of the complaints were over-exaggerated. Even when reviewers or gaming news site did bother to mention that the graphical bugs had been improved upon or fixed, there seemed to be slight condescension and derision towards the game. Felt like the internet had decided that since it wasn't perfect on launch, it was worthy of being the newest "No Man's Sky" in terms of scorn it should receive.
Personally, I loved the game and felt that it was one of my favourite entries in the series. That's not to say it didn't have it's share of flaws, nor did the story explore it's premise to it's full potential. There was a lot more that Andromeda could have done to make the situation feel more dire, that these really were colonists on the frontier with limited resources and surrounded by hostile enemies and internal conflict.
Andromeda reminds me slightly of DA2, in that the technical problems and rushed/erratic development cycle prevented the game from reaching the heights it could have. It left the game feeling like a diamond in the rough that needed more time to be refined and polished. Even so, I love both those games primarily due to the characters and story, which makes up for how the game dips in certain other areas.
I'm not saying the game is a masterpiece, but it hardly deserves to be labelled as the worst entry in the franchise.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 2, 2017 20:12:17 GMT
Yes. There seemed to be an almost deliberate or subconscious effort on the net to tank the game by bad word of mouth. Obviously there were graphical problems and bugs on launch, but what game doesn't have teething problems? Most of these issues were fixed (or at least mitigated) relatively quickly via patches within a fortnight, yet you'd still hear people banging on about them months later. I personally felt that most of the complaints were over-exaggerated. Even when reviewers or gaming news site did bother to mention that the graphical bugs had been improved upon or fixed, there seemed to be slight condescension and derision towards the game. Felt like the internet had decided that since it wasn't perfect on launch, it was worthy of being the newest "No Man's Sky" in terms of scorn it should receive. Personally, I loved the game and felt that it was one of my favourite entries in the series. That's not to say it didn't have it's share of flaws, nor did the story explore it's premise to it's full potential. There was a lot more that Andromeda could have done to make the situation feel more dire, that these really were colonists on the frontier with limited resources and surrounded by hostile enemies and internal conflict. Andromeda reminds me slightly of DA2, in that the technical problems and rushed/erratic development cycle prevented the game from reaching the heights it could have. It left the game feeling like a diamond in the rough that needed more time to be refined and polished. Even so, I love both those games primarily due to the characters and story, which makes up for how the game dips in certain other areas. I'm not saying the game is a masterpiece, but it hardly deserves to be labelled as the worst entry in the franchise. By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 2, 2017 20:15:49 GMT
Things that were completely FUBAR in Andromeda at launch:-
1) Face and body animations 2) Character creator 3) Cringey dialogue 4) Lack of Platinum mode in MP 5) Various crash bugs in both SP and MP 6) Asari Clones Things that have been fixed since patch 1.09 :-1) Face and body animations 2) Character creator 3) Platinum mode added to MP 4) Crash bugs Things that remain broken even after patch 1.09 :-1) Cringey dialogue 2) Asari Clones So as you can see 4/6 major problems were fixed but there is no redemption for the laziness of the writing and the lack of face models for the Asari. Only a sequel would be able to overcome those problems now. All in all, the game isn't half bad. EA need to learn to listen though when one of their branches says they need more time to polish up. Only one of your two remaining issues is actually an issue. The Asari clones. The "cringey" dialogue is entirely subjective.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 20:17:28 GMT
Yes. There seemed to be an almost deliberate or subconscious effort on the net to tank the game by bad word of mouth. Obviously there were graphical problems and bugs on launch, but what game doesn't have teething problems? Most of these issues were fixed (or at least mitigated) relatively quickly via patches within a fortnight, yet you'd still hear people banging on about them months later. I personally felt that most of the complaints were over-exaggerated. Even when reviewers or gaming news site did bother to mention that the graphical bugs had been improved upon or fixed, there seemed to be slight condescension and derision towards the game. Felt like the internet had decided that since it wasn't perfect on launch, it was worthy of being the newest "No Man's Sky" in terms of scorn it should receive. Personally, I loved the game and felt that it was one of my favourite entries in the series. That's not to say it didn't have it's share of flaws, nor did the story explore it's premise to it's full potential. There was a lot more that Andromeda could have done to make the situation feel more dire, that these really were colonists on the frontier with limited resources and surrounded by hostile enemies and internal conflict. Andromeda reminds me slightly of DA2, in that the technical problems and rushed/erratic development cycle prevented the game from reaching the heights it could have. It left the game feeling like a diamond in the rough that needed more time to be refined and polished. Even so, I love both those games primarily due to the characters and story, which makes up for how the game dips in certain other areas. I'm not saying the game is a masterpiece, but it hardly deserves to be labelled as the worst entry in the franchise. By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. “We’re very happy with how BioWare is doing and how BioWare is treating Mass Effect. Our expectations for Mass Effect are strong for the future,” But sure, EA agrees with you...
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Post by vonuber on Aug 2, 2017 20:17:39 GMT
By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. That based on the ten hour gated preview you played back in March?
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Origin: KenjiJU
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Post by Uchimura on Aug 2, 2017 20:18:37 GMT
IMO we're not harsh enough on youtubers. Latch onto and spread controversy for a quick buck and an ego trip.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 2, 2017 20:19:50 GMT
There were a lot of things wrong with the pre-patch release, and there are still things wrong with the game post-patching that simply shouldn't happen in any game from devs that created DAI and ME3. Identical asari being a good example of a very serious lack of attention to detail. But I do think the ME3 ending fiasco and the rumours pre-release might have affected the initial "gut feeling" rating, esp when the beginning of the game is less compelling than later on. Bioware has a reputation for excellence, and after the controversy of the endings, expectations were very high for the next installment to be nearly flawless. I love the game, but I hope that the reception it had is an eyeopener for Bioware and EA. They can't rest on the successes of the past games or release an unfinished, rushed game like that again. the trouble is it seems people only care about bugs or Asari clones or wonky facial animations when they have an agenda. Been playing through the Witcher 3 recently and there have been bugs on par with those in Andromeda and some that are much worse. And many virtually identical human clones. That look exactly the same. Coupled with similar character and story writing Its hard to see why one gets universally praised and the other universally trashed.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 2, 2017 20:21:35 GMT
By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. That based on the ten hour gated preview you played back in March? Yup. And see I only played Ninja Gaiden (remake Xbox) few a few hours and gave up. Too hard for me, yet I can totally review the entire game and say it sucks. 😝😁
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Post by smilesja on Aug 2, 2017 20:23:29 GMT
By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. That based on the ten hour gated preview you played back in March? If it's the worst game then it's already better than a lot of games today.
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Post by naytnavare on Aug 2, 2017 20:36:40 GMT
Yes. There was reason for criticism. But not the hate.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 2, 2017 20:38:55 GMT
By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. That based on the ten hour gated preview you played back in March? For me it was based on the monstrosity that was present at release.
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 2, 2017 20:47:10 GMT
There were a lot of things wrong with the pre-patch release, and there are still things wrong with the game post-patching that simply shouldn't happen in any game from devs that created DAI and ME3. Identical asari being a good example of a very serious lack of attention to detail. But I do think the ME3 ending fiasco and the rumours pre-release might have affected the initial "gut feeling" rating, esp when the beginning of the game is less compelling than later on. Bioware has a reputation for excellence, and after the controversy of the endings, expectations were very high for the next installment to be nearly flawless. I love the game, but I hope that the reception it had is an eyeopener for Bioware and EA. They can't rest on the successes of the past games or release an unfinished, rushed game like that again. the trouble is it seems people only care about bugs or Asari clones or wonky facial animations when they have an agenda. Been playing through the Witcher 3 recently and there have been bugs on par with those in Andromeda and some that are much worse. And many virtually identical human clones. That look exactly the same. Coupled with similar character and story writing Its hard to see why one gets universally praised and the other universally trashed. I don't have any agenda here. I didn't mention the Witcher 3 because I was only thinking about MEA. I don't tend to bring up other games unless I have an interesting comparison to make. To answer your thoughts though, I'm playing TW3 this evening and have had 2 quests bug out on me in the last hour. There are certainly many similarities in the NPCs in TW3, but not to the point where an entire race is composed of identical siblings. It's more like they created multiple NPCs from a limited number of features, like in the Sims 2. TW3 might be praised while MEA is trashed because the former was an unexpectedly excellent game from a relatively unknown developer, the pre-release demos were graphically similar to the released version, there wasn't a backlash from a previous game, and opinions weren't tainted by pre-release rumours and SJW nonsense spouted by people stuck in the 90s. Those are just meandering thoughts though. I would score TW3 higher than MEA for a lot of things, but I like MEA more than TW3. I think it's an expectation thing. We expected a great game from Bioware and got an ok one, but no one expected an award winning, GOTY, masterpiece from CD Projekt because they'd never made one.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 2, 2017 20:53:19 GMT
While there is criticism of the game that is very valid it got drowned out by the irrational "hurr durr hur durr the is sjw hurr durr" crap. I also think they didn't help themselves by releasing the game too early with all the technical hiccups it had. They basically gave ammo to the haters with that. Also someone should have told Manveer to shutup while he was still working for them. His twitter rants did not help the reputation of the company.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 20:56:07 GMT
By far the worst entry in the franchise... almost the worst game Biowares ever made actually. Deserves all the derision it got. Feels good that EA agrees. See what I mean about the internet feeling a bit like an echo-chamber at times?
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 2, 2017 20:57:17 GMT
IMO we're not harsh enough on youtubers. Latch onto and spread controversy for a quick buck and an ego trip. Oh my gosh, the youtuber fixation people have is astonishing. People are watching other people play games. Maybe I'm getting old, but I just don't get the appeal. Why are people not playing the game themselves? My partner's brother watches hours of random people on the internet talk shit and play a game, and he takes their opinions as gospel. Whenever I disagree with his opinions it's "Well Markiplier says..." and it makes me cringe. I just don't get the celebrity thing. I could rant about it for hours. Hundreds of millions of pounds to sign a footballer-they could literally give every single fan a free shirt and still be millionaires. Random celebrity family reality TV shows? People are watching other people make dinner. At least on the Sims 4 I can kill them. And now Joe/Jane Blogs in their bedroom playing a game, dictating the opinion of the masses on every video game they play. Le sigh. I'm so getting old.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Aug 2, 2017 21:01:50 GMT
Not really. BioWare themselves dug this situation. That being said, I still enjoy the game, but it's incredibly - incredibly flawed and sometimes, barebones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 21:13:17 GMT
We... what?
I've played the game since day one, did two PT of the SP campaign, and playing MP right now. I expressed my liking for Andromeda a few times. It's going be my game for a bit, probably for the most of 2018, unless Assassin Creed is improbably bug free on release.
How's that harsh?!
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 2, 2017 21:16:51 GMT
I think there were assuredly issues with the game at launch. Animation issues, glitches, etc. This is not unusual for AAA games launched recently, but MEA might have had a few more glitches than most. There continue to be some issues with the game, assuredly. Dialogue is hit-or-miss, some people find the antagonist to be unbelievable/bad, and the ratio of "fetch-quests" to quality quests is closer than maybe we would like after the criticisms of DAI.
That being said, I loved Andromeda and feel that assuredly it was judged too harshly by the public, the gaming press, and some reviewers. I understand that expectations were high, but they were probably unreachable. It's kind of like what happened with No Man's Sky, but reversed. In No Man's Sky, Sony and the development studio promised too much of the game. Said there would be all these random encounters, space battles, you could potentially meet up with other players, etc. Instead, the game was lackluster compared to what was advertised, however it was still a pretty decent game if you were just told what it actually was. Mass Effect suffered the opposite. There wasn't much advertising, Bioware and EA didn't tell us much about it, but it got so overhyped by the community that when it came out I was expecting things to be in it that were not, but it was my fault. I imagined that there might be some things in MEA based on what was in other games coming out recently and very vaguely based on an old leaked survey. When those things weren't in the game, I was bummed out a bit, but it wasn't Bioware's fault. They never promised me those things. I just imagined them, hyped them in my own head. I think that was a big part of the disappointment. Self-hype.
Of course others were still upset about the ME3 endings, upset about M. Heir, upset about gay romances, upset about DAI fetch quests (before MEA was even out), and upset about "ugly Feminism" SisRyder, etc. Had the game been perfect it would still have gotten hate from those who wanted more Shep and those upset about ME3.
Is it the best game ever? No. Is it the game I thought it would be? No. Is it a good game worth playing? I think so. And I do think that fans and detractors alike were far too critical of the game at launch. 0's on Metacritic because "No Garrus" or "SJW's"?? Sickening.
Overall, it seemed that gaming journalism and YouTube were far too eager to have something to hate on, especially after the successes of HZD and BOTW. And we as fans were willing to let them drag the game through the mud because it didn't fit our own personal narrative of what MEA was supposed to be. People were so eager to point out small inconsistencies and compare it to the OT that they didn't allow MEA to be the game it was, only the game it wasn't.
And now Bioware Montreal is likely pretty much gone, and I can't help but feel bad for everyone involved. What should have been celebrated as the beginning of a new chapter for Mass Effect fans was instead torn apart, every aspect scrutinized, derided. Should games be the best they can be? Sure. But while MEA is far from perfect, it did not deserve the hate that came its way.
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