Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 4:08:12 GMT
Actually there is a lot of fact in what he said. Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. It is fact that Ryder was privileged and got their position (Pathfinder)cause of his/her daddy. Shepard earned his N7 tab by being one of the best of the best and wasnt given it by his daddy. That is not opinion but fact. This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.)
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 7, 2017 4:22:36 GMT
Actually there is a lot of fact in what he said. Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. It is fact that Ryder was privileged and got their position (Pathfinder)cause of his/her daddy. Shepard earned his N7 tab by being one of the best of the best and wasnt given it by his daddy. That is not opinion but fact. This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.) I think the opportunity for that kinda passed with MEA's conclusion. That only really works before Ryder ultimately gets results. Losing certain members of the crew might work though. Drack is a prime candidate since he's already on death's door, but personally I'd probably have Jaal be the plot's victim, despite my actually liking him.
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mannyray
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 7, 2017 4:23:41 GMT
Actually there is a lot of fact in what he said. Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. It is fact that Ryder was privileged and got their position (Pathfinder)cause of his/her daddy. Shepard earned his N7 tab by being one of the best of the best and wasnt given it by his daddy. That is not opinion but fact. This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.) If you actually played the game you'd know that the only reason Sara became pathfinder at that juncture was because her father chose to give his life for hers. Just sayin'. Not opinion. Fact. Also Tann made it clear she could be muscled out if Eos didn't become viable. Another fact. EDIT: The above was directed to Majesticjazz's quote. I do agree there should have been story possibilities for crewmates to die. If you know it's genuinely possible one or more of your crew won't make it, the game's excitement factor can rise. That was missing from the ME:A's story.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 7, 2017 4:26:16 GMT
This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.) If you actually played the game you'd know that the only reason Sara became pathfinder at that juncture was because her father chose to give his life for hers. Just sayin'. Not opinion. Fact. Also Tann made it clear she could be muscled out if Eos didn't become viable. Another fact. EDIT: The above was directed to Majesticjazz's quote. I do agree there should have been story possibilities for crewmates to die. If you know it's genuinely possible one or more of your crew won't make it, the game's excitement factor can rise. That was missing from the ME:A's story. Why Ryder was given the role of Pathfinder is besides the point as that still does not change the fact that Ryder was GIVEN the role/title of Pathfinder while Shepard EARNED his N7 tab. Fact, not opinion.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 7, 2017 4:27:20 GMT
Actually there is a lot of fact in what he said. Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. It is fact that Ryder was privileged and got their position (Pathfinder)cause of his/her daddy. Shepard earned his N7 tab by being one of the best of the best and wasnt given it by his daddy. That is not opinion but fact. This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.) Ryder earns his title in the end.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 7, 2017 4:29:00 GMT
If you actually played the game you'd know that the only reason Sara became pathfinder at that juncture was because her father chose to give his life for hers. Just sayin'. Not opinion. Fact. Also Tann made it clear she could be muscled out if Eos didn't become viable. Another fact. EDIT: The above was directed to Majesticjazz's quote. I do agree there should have been story possibilities for crewmates to die. If you know it's genuinely possible one or more of your crew won't make it, the game's excitement factor can rise. That was missing from the ME:A's story. That still does not change the fact that Ryder was given the role/title of Pathfinder while Shepard earned his N7 tab. Fact, not opinion. Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 7, 2017 4:33:23 GMT
That still does not change the fact that Ryder was given the role/title of Pathfinder while Shepard earned his N7 tab. Fact, not opinion. Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game. No, Ryder may have proved through actions in the game that he/she was worthy of the position GIVEN to them, but that still does not change the fact that Ryder was GIVEN the position and didnt earn it upfront but rather given the position upfront with an opportunity to prove they deserved it over the course of the game. Shepard wasn't given the N7 rank by his daddy with the chance to prove he is worthy of the N7 rank....we went through tough training and trials to earn in. Fact, not opinion.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 7, 2017 4:34:44 GMT
That still does not change the fact that Ryder was given the role/title of Pathfinder while Shepard earned his N7 tab. Fact, not opinion. Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game. Yes they earned the title, but it wasn't a satisfying experience to build up towards that. There was nothing unique to Ryder that enabled them to succeed, all of what was unique about the role of Pathfinder and Ryder's journey could have been accomplished by anyone. The same cannot be said of Shepard.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 7, 2017 4:35:32 GMT
This gives me an interesting idea for a sequel. That Ryder ends up losing the respect of a lot of people due to Alec Ryder's nepotism. (Not a very good one, I'm just throwing out ideas.) I think the opportunity for that kinda passed with MEA's conclusion. That only really works before Ryder ultimately gets results. Losing certain members of the crew might work though. Drack is a prime candidate since he's already on death's door, but personally I'd probably have Jaal be the plot's victim, despite my actually liking him. can we axe all of them and try to get a decent selection of characters next time around?
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 7, 2017 4:36:07 GMT
Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. The loss of Ashley or Kaidan and Wrex doesn't strike me as being any more dramatic than Alec's death, especially not Wrex since Shepard can be a total dick about it.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 7, 2017 4:37:00 GMT
Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game. No, Ryder may have proved through actions in the game that he/she was worthy of the position GIVEN to them, but that still does not change the fact that Ryder was GIVEN the position and didnt earn it upfront but rather given the position upfront with an opportunity to prove they deserved it over the course of the game. Shepard wasn't given the N7 rank by his daddy with the chance to prove he is worthy of the N7 rank....we went through tough training and trials to earn in. Fact, not opinion. Okay it was different to how Shepard started but it had the same result. They became heroes.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 7, 2017 4:38:21 GMT
Unlike Shepard, Ryder NEVER experienced lost the way Shepard did in ME1 on Virmire with Ash/Kaiden, and Wrex. That is not opinion but fact. The loss of Ashley or Kaidan and Wrex doesn't strike me as being any more dramatic than Alec's death, especially not Wrex since Shepard can be a total dick about it. Wrong! Alec's death was not the result of a decision made by Scott/Sara Ryder. Ash/Kaiden/Wrex death was a result of a decision made by Shepard.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 7, 2017 4:38:59 GMT
Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game. Yes they earned the title, but it wasn't a satisfying experience to build up towards that. There was nothing unique to Ryder that enabled them to succeed, all of what was unique about the role of Pathfinder and Ryder's journey could have been accomplished by anyone. The same cannot be said of Shepard. Ryder helped save the initiative from failing, activated the vaults, and had a huge hand in relations with the Angara. And Ryder had SAM to help them interface the vault.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2017 4:39:15 GMT
The loss of Ashley or Kaidan and Wrex doesn't strike me as being any more dramatic than Alec's death, especially not Wrex since Shepard can be a total dick about it. Wrong! Alec's death was not the result of a decision made by Ryder. Ash/Kaiden/Wrex death was a result of a decision made by Shepard. ...so?
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 7, 2017 4:40:31 GMT
I think the opportunity for that kinda passed with MEA's conclusion. That only really works before Ryder ultimately gets results. Losing certain members of the crew might work though. Drack is a prime candidate since he's already on death's door, but personally I'd probably have Jaal be the plot's victim, despite my actually liking him. can we axe all of them and try to get a decent selection of characters next time around? Nah.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2017 4:42:02 GMT
I think the narrative makes it quite clear that no one could accomplish what Ryder did.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 7, 2017 4:44:52 GMT
Wrong! Alec's death was not the result of a decision made by Ryder. Ash/Kaiden/Wrex death was a result of a decision made by Shepard. ...so? Ryder never faced the same level of decisions and setbacks as Shepard.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2017 4:46:18 GMT
Ryder never faced the same level of decisions and setbacks as Shepard. and that was one of the reasons the trilogy ended up being a mess.
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cobalt72
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by cobalt72 on Aug 7, 2017 4:47:36 GMT
Eh, Space Deity Shepard should've been able to save both Ashley and Kaiden or leave both of them
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 7, 2017 4:48:12 GMT
Ryder never faced the same level of decisions and setbacks as Shepard. and that was one of the reasons the trilogy ended up being a mess. The trilogy's ending was a mess. But that is besides the point and you are trying to deflect. Point is, Shepard, and even The Warden, Inquistor, Revan, and Hawke all had to make similar choices. Ryder didnt. This is why if there is a MEA2, Bioware needs to stop holding our hands and playing it safe.
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warrior
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Aug 7, 2017 4:54:02 GMT
Fact: Ryder earned the title through the game. No, Ryder may have proved through actions in the game that he/she was worthy of the position GIVEN to them, but that still does not change the fact that Ryder was GIVEN the position and didnt earn it upfront but rather given the position upfront with an opportunity to prove they deserved it over the course of the game. Shepard wasn't given the N7 rank by his daddy with the chance to prove he is worthy of the N7 rank....we went through tough training and trials to earn in. Fact, not opinion. And this matters to you why, exactly?
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 7, 2017 4:54:14 GMT
Yes they earned the title, but it wasn't a satisfying experience to build up towards that. There was nothing unique to Ryder that enabled them to succeed, all of what was unique about the role of Pathfinder and Ryder's journey could have been accomplished by anyone. The same cannot be said of Shepard. Ryder helped save the initiative from failing, activated the vaults, and had a huge hand in relations with the Angara. And Ryder had SAM to help them interface the vault. SAM did all the heavy lifting. All Ryder did was provide a host for it. Any half driven moron could have fought off the Kett and plopped a base down on Eos
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2017 4:54:16 GMT
I don't get how Ryder doesn't fit an archetypal hero. There are loads of stories where the protagonist is some average person but through circumstances becomes bigger then themselves. These consist of some of the most famous stories in history, for example King Arthur whom was some boy raised in the country until events led him to being the one to pull out the Sword in the Stone and become the new King and doing all his feats. Another example is Luke Skywalker, some farmboy who gets pulled into a war and saves the galaxy.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 7, 2017 4:54:47 GMT
I think the narrative makes it quite clear that no one could accomplish what Ryder did. only by virtue of the SAM interface. Nothing Ryder did was beyond the abilities of anyone else we see.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2017 4:55:04 GMT
and that was one of the reasons the trilogy ended up being a mess. The trilogy's ending was a mess. But that is besides the point and you are trying to deflect. Point is, Shepard, and even The Warden, Inquistor, Revan, and Hawke all had to make similar choices. Ryder didnt. This is why if there is a MEA2, Bioware needs to stop holding our hands and playing it safe. yet. I mean two points. 1. Killing off characters is not necessarily great writing. It can be a lazy way out. Writers should find a way to be...better. Put people through hell. 2.i fully expect the series to go darker as we get each installment. Besides not.like Ryder wasn't faced with a ton of morally interesting choices.
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