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Post by Serza on Aug 7, 2017 20:14:39 GMT
I'm using PS4 metacritic numbers. There's a list on there that ranks games for the year. If you'd like I could easily combine all the lists for PS4, Xbox and PC - but then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse. Please do. Considering ME:A's score was higher on Both PC and Xbox, I am highly suspicious of your "then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse." claim. Also, provide you methodology for combining these lists as well as how you did it, for record's sake. Keep in mind though that the rankings for ME:A are much better in the 2017 Xbox list and significantly better in the 2017 PC list. There is no possible way for said lists to make the game worse. There are also games included on those lists that are nearly unheard of as well as games no hardcore gamer of any stripe would even consider purchasing let alone renting. I still don't see how any of these lists of relative score somehow proves ME:A is a "bad game" let alone matter as outliers are included in overall review scores. The mean sans outliers would be a much more accurate statistic as per the general rules of statistics. Since enjoyment of a video game is purely opinion based, you won't change my attitude towards ME:A, so if you are trying, I would advise against it as you are wasting your time. Welcome to BSN.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 20:14:43 GMT
I'm using PS4 metacritic numbers. There's a list on there that ranks games for the year. If you'd like I could easily combine all the lists for PS4, Xbox and PC - but then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse. Are you also using the user scores? No, he is not.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 7, 2017 20:16:37 GMT
I have said this quite a few times but I do think the ME:A offers great potential for a second part.
We know almost nothing about Andromeda as a whole. Here are some questions that I'd be interested in: What is the bigger picture with the Kett? It is highly implied that they control a vastly bigger section of space beyond the Helios cluster, which begs the question: How will we deal with this? Then there is the obvious question: What's the deal with the remnant and the jardaan? Lot's of stuff to explore there. What will our future with the angara look like? Will there be a conflict brewing? There is some post-ending dialogue on Aya, which suggests there might be tensions coming up over the Nexus people establishing a greater presence everywhere. And of course there is the question about the Initiative and the benefactor and all that. The quarians, I think were really planned for a DLC but if that DLC never materializes, it would also be an important plot point for a sequel.
So there is plenty to do. I think that now that we've gotten over all the horrible lore inconsistencies that were needed to get us to Andromeda it would be a shame to just give up such a fresh and promising setting. Also, Ryder, being a very young protagonist who just started out on their hero's journey feels like a protagonist with still lots to do.
So I say yea, definitely, if and when they do make a new ME, make it an ME:A2. I am certainly not in a hurry to get back to the post ending MW, I feel like we'd only find more plot inconsistencies there and as someone who cherishes the original trilogy, I'd say we had more than enough of those already.
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 20:17:38 GMT
Also, it seems this thread is getting a little bit contentious, though I'm not helping very much >:3. Anyone got any ideas to help?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 7, 2017 20:21:15 GMT
Exactly, going to Andromeda seemed really forced, cheap, and desperate. When I was replaying the MER prior to MEA I always asked myself, "and why wasnt the Andromeda Initiative ever mentioned...?" And even now, if the writers have any sort of imagination, they could still go back to the MW and make things work. They could have told stories of other heros and people in the MW as the Reaper War ranged on. Ok for that matter let's look at other series that have added something that was never mentioned because it wasn't planned at the time. The NX-01. Never mentioned in any other series, Voyager ship not mentioned on TNG. Deep Space Nine maybe mentioned on the show but AFSIK first mention was in First Contact. Yet that doesn't make any of the future iterations crap or nonsense. None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 20:22:44 GMT
Also, it seems this thread is getting a little bit contentious, though I'm not helping very much >:3. Anyone got any ideas to help? That describes pretty much every thread on every forum ever...
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Post by Iakus on Aug 7, 2017 20:25:13 GMT
I have said this quite a few times but I do think the ME:A offers great potential for a second part. We know almost nothing about Andromeda as a whole. Here are some questions that I'd be interested in: What is the bigger picture with the Kett? It is highly implied that they control a vastly bigger section of space beyond the Helios cluster, which begs the question: How will we deal with this? Good question, given the AI has zilch in the way of warships, and only survived as long sit did by running and hiding (yet another example of terribad planning). Mild curiosity. Would not be surprised to discover it's another machine race. I'm more interested in what created the Scourge. Probably the same as any race. Some will be friendly, others not. MP races demand it be so.
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 20:25:36 GMT
Also, it seems this thread is getting a little bit contentious, though I'm not helping very much >:3. Anyone got any ideas to help? That describes pretty much every thread on every forum ever... I has le idea.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 7, 2017 20:29:12 GMT
I'm using PS4 metacritic numbers. There's a list on there that ranks games for the year. If you'd like I could easily combine all the lists for PS4, Xbox and PC - but then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse. Please do. Considering ME:A's score was higher on Both PC and Xbox, I am highly suspicious of your "then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse." claim. Also, provide you methodology for combining these lists as well as how you did it, for record's sake. Keep in mind though that the rankings for ME:A are much better in the 2017 Xbox list and significantly better in the 2017 PC list. There is no possible way for said lists to make the game worse. There are also games included on those lists that are nearly unheard of as well as games no hardcore gamer of any stripe would even consider purchasing let alone renting. I still don't see how any of these lists of relative score somehow proves ME:A is a "bad game" let alone matter as outliers are included in overall review scores. The mean sans outliers would be a much more accurate statistic as per the general rules of statistics. Since enjoyment of a video game is purely opinion based, you won't change my attitude towards ME:A, so if you are trying, I would advise against it as you are wasting your time. 84/154 for PC 107/197 for PS4 39/109 for Xbox Identical rank percentage wise on PC and PS4 - higher ranking on Xbox, the version with the least reviews, least games released, smallest sample size... And no, not "significantly better" on the PC list. It's like you didn't even go over any of this and just posted the narrative in your head, fed on by the likes of Andromeda apologists on this forum. It's a bad game because all of the other games with similar scores are also bad games. You could argue the Xbox version isn't bad based on its placing - but seeing it has the smallest sample size and is the least popular console to play the game on, I'd argue the PC and PS4 statistics trump it.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 7, 2017 20:34:43 GMT
Probably the same as any race. Some will be friendly, others not. MP races demand it be so. On this aspect specifically, I'd like to see some unforseen developments. I thought the angara were way to nice to us actually. It made sense because we were helping them against the Kett but if that threat should ever pass, I think there is a golden opportunity for BW to tackle some tough questions. What if the angara decide that they want to restrict our influence on their planets? After all, one could interpret us as an invading force in ancient angaran territory. How far are we willing to go to assert our own agenda in Helios? How far can we go (especially given that we (as in the AI) seem to have some technological advantage over them. Honestly, I doubt BW will go down this road and the fact that we establish very close diplomatic ties at the end of ME:A makes such a plot development tough to pull off anyway but it could be an interesting development if the writers wanted to go there.
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 20:34:59 GMT
Are you also using the user scores? No, he is not.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 7, 2017 20:38:20 GMT
The same would also apply to the weapon upgrades and resources, this way you could do away with the planet scanning people had a problem with. I think this gets the cause-and-effect confused. Planet scanning isn't there to give out upgrades and resources, it's there to make the map useful. The resources given out from scanning are fairly trivial. I suppose this is an improvement over ME3, where you needed to do the scanning if you want to get to a high-EMS state.(Or play MP, of course.)
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 7, 2017 20:41:20 GMT
The same would also apply to the weapon upgrades and resources, this way you could do away with the planet scanning people had a problem with. I think this gets the cause-and-effect confused. Planet scanning isn't there to give out upgrades and resources, it's there to make the map useful. The resources given out from scanning are fairly trivial. I suppose this is an improvement over ME3, where you needed to do the scanning if you want to get to a high-EMS state.(Or play MP, of course.)
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 20:41:37 GMT
The same would also apply to the weapon upgrades and resources, this way you could do away with the planet scanning people had a problem with. I think this gets the cause-and-effect confused. Planet scanning isn't there to give out upgrades and resources, it's there to make the map useful. The resources given out from scanning are fairly trivial. I suppose this is an improvement over ME3, where you needed to do the scanning if you want to get to a high-EMS state.(Or play MP, of course.) Maybe you get side missions from certain people and some of those planets would be where the side quests would take place. Again this is an idea.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 7, 2017 20:41:38 GMT
Ok for that matter let's look at other series that have added something that was never mentioned because it wasn't planned at the time. The NX-01. Never mentioned in any other series, Voyager ship not mentioned on TNG. Deep Space Nine maybe mentioned on the show but AFSIK first mention was in First Contact. Yet that doesn't make any of the future iterations crap or nonsense. None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars. First they don't have unlimited range. The drive core is bigger and more sustainable but that's it. They don't have a "hyperdrive" only ftl and had to stay in stasis. I don't see the big issue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 20:48:31 GMT
Please do. Considering ME:A's score was higher on Both PC and Xbox, I am highly suspicious of your "then the results would make Andromeda appear even worse." claim. Also, provide you methodology for combining these lists as well as how you did it, for record's sake. Keep in mind though that the rankings for ME:A are much better in the 2017 Xbox list and significantly better in the 2017 PC list. There is no possible way for said lists to make the game worse. There are also games included on those lists that are nearly unheard of as well as games no hardcore gamer of any stripe would even consider purchasing let alone renting. I still don't see how any of these lists of relative score somehow proves ME:A is a "bad game" let alone matter as outliers are included in overall review scores. The mean sans outliers would be a much more accurate statistic as per the general rules of statistics. Since enjoyment of a video game is purely opinion based, you won't change my attitude towards ME:A, so if you are trying, I would advise against it as you are wasting your time. 84/154 for PC 107/197 for PS4 39/109 for Xbox Identical rank percentage wise on PC and PS4 - higher ranking on Xbox, the version with the least reviews, least games released, smallest sample size... And no, not "significantly better" on the PC list. It's like you didn't even go over any of this and just posted the narrative in your head, fed on by the likes of Andromeda apologists on this forum. It's a bad game because all of the other games with similar scores are also bad games. You could argue the Xbox version isn't bad based on its placing - but seeing it has the smallest sample size and is the least popular console to play the game on, I'd argue the PC and PS4 statistics trump it. And there is is, the inevitable devolution into personal attacks. You have finally made your motives clear. You are seeking a phyrric victory driven by basal instincts that feed upon on some form of internalized rage/hate. I suspected as much, but your fallacious attacks now clinch my theory into fact Regardless, I certainly appreciate you asserting motive to my posting and assuming that I am a blathering idiot fed by meaningless likes on a forum. Thanks dawg! You da real MVP! How dare anyone enjoy ME:A, amiright fam? ME:A is a bad game to you and a great one to me and in this aspect and no amount of frankly meaningless, straight up rankings that compare apples to oranges andlack statistical averaging, ignoring my points and data, or amount of personal attacks flung around with reckless abandon will change that. The personal feelings of hack journalists that had to work in games because no one in there right mind would hire them in the real world won't sway anyone nor do they make whatever argument that you want to furiously type out and less inane. You don't understand the opinion is not fact and frankly, you never will. You wanna make personal attacks, then please feel free, especially if the mods allow it, but don't do it to me as I refuse to engage those that play their arguments straight out of the logical fallacy playbook. Feel good to earn that phyrric victory? Have a great rest of your day, anonymous internet troll, you certainly earned it.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 7, 2017 20:49:19 GMT
Ok for that matter let's look at other series that have added something that was never mentioned because it wasn't planned at the time. The NX-01. Never mentioned in any other series, Voyager ship not mentioned on TNG. Deep Space Nine maybe mentioned on the show but AFSIK first mention was in First Contact. Yet that doesn't make any of the future iterations crap or nonsense. None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars. Same rule applies. The existence of the ODSY drive would have had almost no effect on commerce and settlement patterns in the short term. In the medium term things would have been somewhat different, depending on how expensive the drives are relative to standard ones, and in the long term standard drives probably go away. But that's irrelevant because ME3 was set in the short term, and if we ever do go back to the MW they can just incorporate ODSY drives into the setting.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 7, 2017 20:50:06 GMT
None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars. First they don't have unlimited range. The drive core is bigger and more sustainable but that's it. They don't have a "hyperdrive" only ftl and had to stay in stasis. I don't see the big issue. They traveled 2.5 million light years with this drive without refueling or discharging the core. The diameter of the Milky Way is a hundred thousand light years. The range is effectively unlimited. Even if you don't want to visit the far reaches of the galaxy (or other galaxies) it is capable to traveling more than a couple of days without exploding. This would revolutionize space travel, redefine borders, start a whole new wave of colonization. Don't you think the quarians would love to get their hands on this tech? The batarians? Earth? This is miracle tech on a level of the Lazarus Project. And to see it used in such a frivolous manner makes me think of Ultron in the Avengers while talking about how humanity made use of vibranium: "The most versatile substance on the planet, and they used it to make a frisbee!"
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 7, 2017 20:51:45 GMT
None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars. First they don't have unlimited range. The drive core is bigger and more sustainable but that's it. They don't have a "hyperdrive" only ftl and had to stay in stasis. I don't see the big issue. Not quite, the ODSY drive, which no longer requires discharge is a game changer for many reasons.That's one of the big problems. The NX01 was not a game changer (though I'll grant you there, that Archer's role as an important historical figure and other implication on established Trek history included retcons that I also wasn't fond of either). Voyager was not a game changer for DS9. DS9 was not a game changer for the crew of the Enterprise D (though they actually visit the station in season 6 and the Enterprise is part of the DS9 pilot episode, so there even is some interplay there). A lot of the Andromeda setup should really be a game changer for ME3 though, particularly the new drive and the ability to travel to other galaxies, which makes the reaper's cycle more than just obsolete. In a Milky Way that can no longer be regarded as an isolated system it makes them downright foolish (even more so than it already was before ME:A). EDIT: Aaaaand ed. That's what I get for jumping into someone else's conversation.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 7, 2017 20:52:51 GMT
None of which compares to developing ships with effectively unlimited range when the entire galaxy is reliant on the relay network for any travel more distant than neighboring stars. Same rule applies. The existence of the ODSY drive would have had almost no effect on commerce and settlement patterns in the short term. In the medium term things would have been somewhat different, depending on how expensive the drives are relative to standard ones, and in the long term standard drives probably go away. But that's irrelevant because ME3 was set in the short term, and if we ever do go back to the MW they can just incorporate ODSY drives into the setting. Define "short term". The ODSY drive has been around long enough to build five arks (at least) the Nexus, and miniaturize the drive small enough to fit on the Tempest. That tells me it's been around for a while.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 7, 2017 20:53:54 GMT
I think this gets the cause-and-effect confused. Planet scanning isn't there to give out upgrades and resources, it's there to make the map useful. The resources given out from scanning are fairly trivial. I suppose this is an improvement over ME3, where you needed to do the scanning if you want to get to a high-EMS state.(Or play MP, of course.) Maybe you get side missions from certain people and some of those planets would be where the side quests would take place. Again this is an idea. Of course, that would require them to get that procedural-generation thing working again, to give us someplace to land. And that still leaves all the planets without such missions. Unless we just cut everything we have no reason to land on, or make those planets completely useless. I could go either way with that.
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 21:01:47 GMT
Maybe you get side missions from certain people and some of those planets would be where the side quests would take place. Again this is an idea. Of course, that would require them to get that procedural-generation thing working again, to give us someplace to land. And that still leaves all the planets without such missions. Unless we just cut everything we have no reason to land on, or make those planets completely useless. I could go either way with that. Hopefully not, it would require less side missions but the quality of them would hopefully improve, so that should clear up the issue of fetch quests. Or it could involve a very small amount of procedural generation with the planets, but I view procedural generation as nice in theory but not so much in practice, because after while things start looking waaaaay to familiar.
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Post by Guts on Aug 7, 2017 21:04:36 GMT
First they don't have unlimited range. The drive core is bigger and more sustainable but that's it. They don't have a "hyperdrive" only ftl and had to stay in stasis. I don't see the big issue. Not quite, the ODSY drive, which no longer requires discharge is a game changer for many reasons.That's one of the big problems. The NX01 was not a game changer (though I'll grant you there, that Archer's role as an important historical figure and other implication on established Trek history included retcons that I also wasn't fond of either). Voyager was not a game changer for DS9. DS9 was not a game changer for the crew of the Enterprise D (though they actually visit the station in season 6 and the Enterprise is part of the DS9 pilot episode, so there even is some interplay there). A lot of the Andromeda setup should really be a game changer for ME3 though, particularly the new drive and the ability to travel to other galaxies, which makes the reaper's cycle more than just obsolete. In a Milky Way that can no longer be regarded as an isolated system it makes them downright foolish (even more so than it already was before ME:A). EDIT: Aaaaand ed. That's what I get for jumping into someone else's conversation. Speaking of FTL stuff, I think I remember reading that Kett ships use mass effect fields to create an Alcubierre effect. (Which is actually consistent with GR aside from maybe a couple of issues.)
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2017 21:08:47 GMT
But part of the complaints about leaving the Milky Way is how contrived the method was. Which by extension reflects poorly on what follows. This, imo is an entirely valid complaint. Exactly, going to Andromeda seemed really forced, cheap, and desperate. When I was replaying the MER prior to MEA I always asked myself, "and why wasnt the Andromeda Initiative ever mentioned...?" And even now, if the writers have any sort of imagination, they could still go back to the MW and make things work. They could have told stories of other heros and people in the MW as the Reaper War ranged on. because they hadn't thought of it maybe? Because NASA is a thing doing similar projects to the AI (relative to scale) and it doesn't come up in every day conversation? Hell Magellan circumnavigated the world in wooden ships and i doubt most people know who he is.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 7, 2017 21:09:59 GMT
Same rule applies. The existence of the ODSY drive would have had almost no effect on commerce and settlement patterns in the short term. In the medium term things would have been somewhat different, depending on how expensive the drives are relative to standard ones, and in the long term standard drives probably go away. But that's irrelevant because ME3 was set in the short term, and if we ever do go back to the MW they can just incorporate ODSY drives into the setting. Define "short term". The ODSY drive has been around long enough to build five arks (at least) the Nexus, and miniaturize the drive small enough to fit on the Tempest. That tells me it's been around for a while. So these are the first ships built with the drive, a prototype or two excepted. In the months between AI departure and ME3, no doubt there would be a few more. But what would those ships have changed that we would have noticed? I got nothing. What have you got?
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