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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 9, 2017 15:28:25 GMT
If I'm honest, my problem isn't with the game so much as the devs implying things pre-release and then it all being a load of horseshit. They set me up to believe in something that just wasn't there. If it hadn't been for those things, I probably wouldn't have many problems with MEA at all. However, I was left with the hope of greater things and they didn't come through. It's one reason why I believe dlc and a second game could improve on what I don't like.
I'm not getting into details about it here. There are massive threads about it already.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 9, 2017 15:28:45 GMT
Agreed. I didn't mind most of them but a handful were not needed. I liked how those tasks encouraged exploration but not all were good enough. They are just there, so why does it bother anyone? It's not like the game tells you, that you have to do them for points to unlock the next plot point like the blessed Inquisition. If anything, the game tells you that they're not important. That's what makes them "tasks." |
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 9, 2017 15:30:55 GMT
They are just there, so why does it bother anyone? It's not like the game tells you, that you have to do them for points to unlock the next plot point like the blessed Inquisition. If anything, the game tells you that they're not important. That's what makes them "tasks." While I know tasks overall improve Andromeda viability, I wish they were better tied into the plot. I'd love for repercussions. That said, even in the OT, most follow-ups came in later games. However, given that BioWare (before MEA was released) said this wouldn't necessarily be a trilogy, that means these minor things are meaningless. |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 9, 2017 15:35:02 GMT
I do have them and have had them all for years and years. However, I think I've played the original non-EC ending more times than I played the EC version in its entirety. The first time I played the EC I accidentally triggered the Refuse ending and didn't get far into the conversation, and I think I've only experienced the EC ending a couple times beyond that. It's been a bit since I've played, and I can't remember if they removed it or just supplemented it with new information from the Leviathan dlc. Either way it doesn't leave your hanging like it previously did. If you haven't played Leviathan, what shoul the Catalyst say? They really are a race Shepard's never heard of, and is describing them actually worth the time? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 16:04:45 GMT
They are just there, so why does it bother anyone? It's not like the game tells you, that you have to do them for points to unlock the next plot point like the blessed Inquisition. If anything, the game tells you that they're not important. That's what makes them "tasks." And I like that, because imo there is more than enough meaty quests in Andromeda between the main story, planetary stories and Companions' missions. I am not interested in even more content that you'd regret missing when rerunning the game. It's already pretty long. |
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Post by themikefest on Aug 9, 2017 16:06:37 GMT
I won't tell you exactly but I believe you have to have all dlc plus EC. Only the extended cut is needed to get that line. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 9, 2017 16:29:26 GMT
To be fair, ME3's Crucible is just about the dumbest, most egregious use of space magic imaginable. Of course, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't call out MEA when it's dumb too. Both should be criticized. Yes, the crucible. You're right. A sign of things to come... The MET had its share of space magic and consistency BS. The Lazarus project for example. The introduction of thermal clips. Shuttles already had FTL drives in ME2 (right in the beginning, we see one going to FTL when Shep, Miri and Jacob depart from the Lazarus station). The entirety of Cerberus. The crucible was just the culmination of a trend that went on ever since the ME2 intro. I'd say the only time when ME really felt very consistent in it's scifi writing was ME1. After that it declined very quickly. But I agree that Andromeda takes it to a whole new level of not giving a fuck anymore with the ODSY drive, the Geth FTL telescope and whatnot. This decline is the main reason for the "hate" part in my love-hate relationship with this series.  |
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Post by fchopin on Aug 9, 2017 16:45:33 GMT
Geez this is getting nuts. Arguing over sci fi using space magic. Do you guys realize how ridiculous that is? No sci fi project be it a game, movie or tv show is innocent here. I see nothing in Andromeda that uses any more space magic than the OT. Yes the radiation thing I keep seeing ok by real world standards it's not lethal but maybe the radiation in Andromeda is stronger? Look I know that's a handwave but if you go into any thing like this and analyze the hell out of it you can't possibly enjoy it. And how about Bioware writers using a brain for a change, that is the reason we have one. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 9, 2017 16:52:50 GMT
If the original trilogy used these massive amounts of handwaving, I must have mercifully forgotten about them. I seem to recall that space magic was tied to element zero, which caused humans to be born with biotic abilities and which could create mass effect fields that altered the mass of affected objects. It was a defined and known factor. In Andromeda, they amped it up to eleven by simply giving the remnant vaults all the powers necessary for their planned plot without any explanations or discernible lore background. To me, that's clearly a step backwards from the OT. I can only assume you must have. Someone else already brought up the Crucible. What about ME1's beacon, that 'downloads' info into your mind? Or how about melting people into genetic sludge turns out to be a good way of building giant metal Terminators? Or assimilating the Protheans means they randomly grow Assault Rifles and Dreadnought parts out of insect hives, distinct from anything else assimilated by the Reapers? Or hell, what about that time when Shepard died, and it turned out that Cerberus figured out the magic recipe to bring someone back from the dead turned out to be a couple of litres of blue resurrection juice, a massive wad of cash and a hot australian girl? You're happy to accept all of this, but radiation removal via alien tech was the point where you drew the line? Really? Sci-fi in general requires suspension of disbelief, and the softer it is, the further that suspension goes. Mass Effect isn't exactly Star Wars but it's still pretty soft as the genre goes, and while disliking this kind of thing is perfectly valid, you can't then assume that perfect adherence to the laws of physics is expected after a trilogy of this kind of thing. It's ridiculous. The stuff about shuttles going FTL and deus ex machina AIs is also pretty tame, and isn't even introduced in MEA - these have been around since ME2 at the least. Much like the radiation outrage, I've no idea why this is suddenly 'bad writing' when it was GOTY material before. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 9, 2017 17:03:04 GMT
What about ME1's beacon, that 'downloads' info into your mind? The beacon was never a big problem for me. Technologically aided telepathy shouldn't really be much of a big deal for an advanced society. I would actually predict that under favorable circumstances, humanity will develop this kind of tech within the next couple of centuries, easily. Granted, the fact that an artifact from a long extinct alien species with probably completely different neurophysiology could transmit information to a human in this manner is a stretch but then, at least they acknowledged that the message was scrambled due in part to those kinds of difficulties. In a world where reaper indoctrination is a thing (which again, is not that far fetched really), a beacon like this is just stepping it up a notch. The rest of your examples, I agree with though. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 9, 2017 17:08:01 GMT
I'd say the only time when ME really felt very consistent in it's scifi writing was ME1. After that it declined very quickly. But I agree that Andromeda takes it to a whole new level of not giving a fuck anymore with the ODSY drive, the Geth FTL telescope and whatnot. Sort of. ME1's rough consistency was better - just in the way that suits/barriers worked, guns worked, politics worked, all that stuff - but even then pretty much anything involving the Protheans was going off into Space Magic. Which is fine, Space Opera tends to use it. No issues with that. ME2 and ME3 weren't drastic deviations from it IMHO. Thermal Clips and gas masks working in space were pushing it but none of it really felt that jarring. Which, tbh, is why I don't get why MEA gets singled out. I mean, the Geth FTL telescope I'm not 100% sure about (wasn't that more to do with using two relays to create a 'lens', not actually look through one to see out the other end?) and I'm not sure what it is about the ODSY drive that is that big a deal in a world of techno-zombies and robot mind control rays. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 9, 2017 17:13:59 GMT
What about ME1's beacon, that 'downloads' info into your mind? The beacon was never a big problem for me. Technologically aided telepathy shouldn't really be much of a big deal for an advanced society. I would actually predict that under favorable circumstances, humanity will develop this kind of tech within the next couple of centuries, easily. Granted, the fact that an artifact from a long extinct alien species with probably completely different neurophysiology could transmit information to a human in this manner is a stretch but then, at least they acknowledged that the message was scrambled due in part to those kinds of difficulties. In a world where reaper indoctrination is a thing (which again, is not that far fetched really), a beacon like this is just stepping it up a notch. The rest of your examples, I agree with though. Its not really a problem for me, either. I didn't even question it in ME1 and I thought the ME3 codex's description was a nice bit of fluff. But if we're in a world where removing radiation from an environment is some unforgivable plot sin that relegates the writing to Sharknado standards then the idea of a machine running a crash-course in brain stimulation then translating a pre-recorded message into that new language and transmitting that to the subject's brain, all in a few seconds without harming or even touching the subject is off the table too. If you want a hard sci-fi approach to this then I'd invite you to watch Arrival (cracking film btw). |
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 9, 2017 17:19:48 GMT
The beacon was never a big problem for me. Technologically aided telepathy shouldn't really be much of a big deal for an advanced society. I would actually predict that under favorable circumstances, humanity will develop this kind of tech within the next couple of centuries, easily. Granted, the fact that an artifact from a long extinct alien species with probably completely different neurophysiology could transmit information to a human in this manner is a stretch but then, at least they acknowledged that the message was scrambled due in part to those kinds of difficulties. In a world where reaper indoctrination is a thing (which again, is not that far fetched really), a beacon like this is just stepping it up a notch. The rest of your examples, I agree with though. Its not really a problem for me, either. I didn't even question it in ME1 and I thought the ME3 codex's description was a nice bit of fluff. But if we're in a world where removing radiation from an environment is some unforgivable plot sin that relegates the writing to Sharknado standards then the idea of a machine running a crash-course in brain stimulation then translating a pre-recorded message into that new language and transmitting that to the subject's brain, all in a few seconds without harming or even touching the subject is off the table too. If you want a hard sci-fi approach to this then I'd invite you to watch Arrival (cracking film btw). I didn't follow that previous radiation discussion super precisely but I assume this is about Eos? If so, I don't have an issue with it. The initiative uses Mass Effect barriers to keep radioactive materials out of certain areas. This makes sense to me, should be relatively easy to set up a decontaminated area and keep irradiated sand, dust and other materials out with an ME barrier. The vaults are a different issue but they are kind of the main mystery in ME:A, so I give them a pass. They are to ME:A what the Mass Relays were to the MET in a way. No one knew exactly how the relays worked and we couldn't know because they were quantum shielded. Now we have the secret of the vaults and Meridian. That's fine by me. One big secret to discover and chip away at is a good thing, IMO. I am usually more upset if they use space magic as a convenience that no one questions. As long as it is used to drive the curiosity of the characters themselves and it's therefore acknowledged that this is something weird in universe, I am ok with it. So yea, I am mostly fine with the radiation stuff on Eos. The actual numbers, they provide (when we see the actual radiation in mSv/hr) are completely nonsensical of course (e.g. hazard level 1 is 0.041 mSv/hr, which is quite a bit for an unprotected human but certainly should not damage the Nomad or your suit of armor at all). But then, ME never held up to someone checking actual numbers. |
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Post by Iakus on Aug 9, 2017 17:50:13 GMT
So basically so long as all the space magic in a given franchise falls under the banner of that 'one big lie', it's fine, right? So... what happens if this terrible violation of science that Gileaden is so concerned about turns out to be a use of mass effect? What then? Does it magically become ok? Or do we have to invent another reason why ancient alien kit acting like ancient alien kit shouldn't be allowed? To a certain extent I'm playing devil's advocate on the above here. Having internal consistency is generally the mark of good fiction. The part I'm not seeing is why, in a story of a explorers finding ancient environment processors on a planet, activate them and find that they're capable of doing things that can't be immediately explained... within reason, si such a huge plot hole. This is all, of course, pretending Mass Effect actually does have 'one big lie' when it, in fact, doesn't. To put it bluntly, I could see his point if Eos started off as a Gas Giant and ended up turning into the Bahamas. Flipping out over stuff like radiation does not appear to be solid reasoning. I'm not saying that as a rule such a thing is necessarily going to end up terrible.
But I AM saying that in some ways less is more, and that throwing space magic into the story in order to solve what should be crucial dilemmas and difficulties, is not good story telling.
Rather than magically transform every planet via a Deus ex Machina, show me some ingenuity, some harsh realism, some fighting against the odds and succeeding with courage and cunning.
Rather than always being saved / having your job done by SAM or the Remnant.
The question should be why add new redundant space magic into the story, and whether it can justify itself (as it is being used) sufficiently, not "why not" or "because it's cool".
There is no problem that can't be solved by digging up the right precursor artifact and turning it on! |
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 9, 2017 18:29:57 GMT
I'm not saying that as a rule such a thing is necessarily going to end up terrible.
But I AM saying that in some ways less is more, and that throwing space magic into the story in order to solve what should be crucial dilemmas and difficulties, is not good story telling.
Rather than magically transform every planet via a Deus ex Machina, show me some ingenuity, some harsh realism, some fighting against the odds and succeeding with courage and cunning.
Rather than always being saved / having your job done by SAM or the Remnant.
The question should be why add new redundant space magic into the story, and whether it can justify itself (as it is being used) sufficiently, not "why not" or "because it's cool".
While I agree with the theory of what you're getting at here, I'm not sure how it actually equates to what's in game. None of the vaults 'magically' fix their planets - three of them remove the environmental hazard, two of them stabilise the environment and and the last two are write-offs due to the planet in question not being in one piece anymore. None of them magically convert into something they weren't to begin with. Given that the whole point of the vaults is to stabilise their host world, I don't really follow the logic that it's completely ridiculous that is indeed, what they do. Furthermore, the vault only actually solves the situation on Eos, because the environment was the problem. It's one piece of the issue on Kadara and Elaaden, part of it is hidden on Havarl, it's not even required on Voeld, and it never gets a chance to do anything significant on 7 and H-047c. Suggesting that it's always the answer doesn't actually fit what's in game. I'm not sure how it's redundant either. If the vaults weren't there then... what is the suggestion? That MEA turns into some depressing episode about how everyone died? |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 9, 2017 18:46:08 GMT
Or assimilating the Protheans means they randomly grow Assault Rifles and Dreadnought parts out of insect hives, distinct from anything else assimilated by the Reapers? That tech was probably copied from the Thorian, who could clone asari already equipped with weapons, armor, and biotic amps. |
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Post by colfoley on Aug 9, 2017 18:49:58 GMT
Well, yeah. Characters who achieved greater growth and change did it over multiple games. I think they've created some things they can build on and expand in Andromeda - that's my hope, anyway. And only Mordin's was a change that was admirably presented. Liara's is a case for me to illustrate why the changes to the character are a bad, bad thing, particularly off-screen. Jack weeping on my Shepard's shoulder was about as low as I saw this game to descend into maudlin (until Jaal came along, lol) & I was afraid to touch Tali's romance after that with a 10 foot pole.
Also, don't remember if it were in this thread or another one, but in respect to the "more complex villains", tbh, what I have seen before along the "complex" villains fell into the categories of:
1. An angst magnet with a hard, hard, and awful childhood and a looker to swoon over and made teens relate to and wish you could win the game by seduction. 2. An OMG, villain that was WRONGED by impossibly dull and CRUEL decisions by a "goodie-goodie two shoes" character(s), that was so blatantly trying for the fashionable shades of gray it made me want to throw up, but numerous ladies to wish they could win the game by seduction 3. A sexy badass with a brutal force of and a really large weapon. Unisex appeal there.
Archon does not look all that menacing, but he has pragmatism and zeal, and he swims his own way, opposition or not. Maybe he lacks the villains flashbacks and many minutes of well-voiced exposition, a fierce face and spiky armor, but honestly, I would not want to find out that he actually once was Jaal's first love and had been tortured awfully to become a kett. And is soooo very haunted...
making a more complex villain doesn't have to involve those things. And even if it does it would just add context. The Arishock and Corypheus both had motives that were understandable, relatable, sympathetic even. But they are still evil bastards who I'm completely opposed to on philosophic and ideological grounds. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:01:41 GMT
Or assimilating the Protheans means they randomly grow Assault Rifles and Dreadnought parts out of insect hives, distinct from anything else assimilated by the Reapers? That tech was probably copied from the Thorian, who could clone asari already equipped with weapons, armor, and biotic amps. Some thorian precursor may be how the reapers developed their indoctrination capabilities. Or their ability to outright possess others, ala Harbinger. Or maybe it came from the protheans, since the thorian absorbed their knowledge (especially the cipher) through their rotting corpses. But then they were turned into collectors. Sometimes it's difficult to keep track of the amazing technology and myriad of ways by which its transferred. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:04:45 GMT
And only Mordin's was a change that was admirably presented. Liara's is a case for me to illustrate why the changes to the character are a bad, bad thing, particularly off-screen. Jack weeping on my Shepard's shoulder was about as low as I saw this game to descend into maudlin (until Jaal came along, lol) & I was afraid to touch Tali's romance after that with a 10 foot pole.
Also, don't remember if it were in this thread or another one, but in respect to the "more complex villains", tbh, what I have seen before along the "complex" villains fell into the categories of:
1. An angst magnet with a hard, hard, and awful childhood and a looker to swoon over and made teens relate to and wish you could win the game by seduction. 2. An OMG, villain that was WRONGED by impossibly dull and CRUEL decisions by a "goodie-goodie two shoes" character(s), that was so blatantly trying for the fashionable shades of gray it made me want to throw up, but numerous ladies to wish they could win the game by seduction 3. A sexy badass with a brutal force of and a really large weapon. Unisex appeal there.
Archon does not look all that menacing, but he has pragmatism and zeal, and he swims his own way, opposition or not. Maybe he lacks the villains flashbacks and many minutes of well-voiced exposition, a fierce face and spiky armor, but honestly, I would not want to find out that he actually once was Jaal's first love and had been tortured awfully to become a kett. And is soooo very haunted...
making a more complex villain doesn't have to involve those things. And even if it does it would just add context. The Arishock and Corypheus both had motives that were understandable, relatable, sympathetic even. But they are still evil bastards who I'm completely opposed to on philosophic and ideological grounds. So is Archon, minus the more imposing look and voicework that is memorable. The character concept itself is fine, but some of the trappings could have been more exaggerated & sinister, as we miss the chance to actually interact with Kett b/c of the plot. Stock Ascendants actually cut more imposing figures with that hovering, pose and alarming glow. If the Achron was trying to mask as a good natured bureaucrat just doing his job... |
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Post by colfoley on Aug 9, 2017 19:07:23 GMT
making a more complex villain doesn't have to involve those things. And even if it does it would just add context. The Arishock and Corypheus both had motives that were understandable, relatable, sympathetic even. But they are still evil bastards who I'm completely opposed to on philosophic and ideological grounds. So is Archon, minus the more imposing look and voicework that is memorable. The character concept itself is fine, but some of the trappings could have been more exaggerated & sinister, as we miss the chance to actually interact with Kett b/c of the plot. Stock Ascendants actually cut more imposing figures with that hovering, pose and alarming glow. If the Achron was trying to mask as a good natured bureaucrat just doing his job... we never heard what his motivations were. We knew what he wanted to do...but not why. |
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Post by RoboticWater on Aug 9, 2017 19:34:30 GMT
I'm not saying that as a rule such a thing is necessarily going to end up terrible.
But I AM saying that in some ways less is more, and that throwing space magic into the story in order to solve what should be crucial dilemmas and difficulties, is not good story telling.
Rather than magically transform every planet via a Deus ex Machina, show me some ingenuity, some harsh realism, some fighting against the odds and succeeding with courage and cunning.
Rather than always being saved / having your job done by SAM or the Remnant.
The question should be why add new redundant space magic into the story, and whether it can justify itself (as it is being used) sufficiently, not "why not" or "because it's cool".
While I agree with the theory of what you're getting at here, I'm not sure how it actually equates to what's in game. None of the vaults 'magically' fix their planets - three of them remove the environmental hazard, two of them stabilise the environment and and the last two are write-offs due to the planet in question not being in one piece anymore. None of them magically convert into something they weren't to begin with. Given that the whole point of the vaults is to stabilise their host world, I don't really follow the logic that it's completely ridiculous that is indeed, what they do. But the machines themselves are magic. Yes, they were built to stabilize the planets, but only because the writers specifically designed them to do so. If we consider every narrative element within their own logical context, then of course it's easy to call them logically consistent. You could just as easily use that to claim anything was entirely logical. Andromeda didn't need another advanced techno-precursor race who conveniently left their terraforming devices ready to go. It didn't need planets that were dying in just such a way to require those devices. It didn't need scenarios where deux-ex-SAM was the only solution. The writers created those narrative beats. They could have, though it would require more effort, created a compelling story without those things. One that maybe leveraged a bit more of our own internal drive. Or, crazily enough, we use our own brains and tenacity to overcome adversity, like, you know, a science fiction story. Have you read or seen The Martian? That's what that looks like. Have you seen Battle Star Galactica? That's also what that would look like (hopefully minus the late-series hamfisted God stuff). Oh but you make a good point: what if BioWare had the balls to make their game have a sad, sobering ending? Wouldn't it be great to have a game developer with enough artistic integrity and creative vision that they created a game which boldly challenged our expectations for an action adventure game. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Aug 9, 2017 19:51:10 GMT
While I agree with the theory of what you're getting at here, I'm not sure how it actually equates to what's in game. None of the vaults 'magically' fix their planets - three of them remove the environmental hazard, two of them stabilise the environment and and the last two are write-offs due to the planet in question not being in one piece anymore. None of them magically convert into something they weren't to begin with. Given that the whole point of the vaults is to stabilise their host world, I don't really follow the logic that it's completely ridiculous that is indeed, what they do. But the machines themselves are magic. Yes, they were built to stabilize the planets, but only because the writers specifically designed them to do so. If we consider every narrative element within their own logical context, then of course it's easy to call them logically consistent. You could just as easily use that to claim anything was entirely logical. Andromeda didn't need another advanced techno-precursor race who conveniently left their terraforming devices ready to go. It didn't need planets that were dying in just such a way to require those devices. It didn't need scenarios where deux-ex-SAM was the only solution. The writers created those narrative beats. They could have, though it would require more effort, created a compelling story without those things. One that maybe leveraged a bit more of our own internal drive. Or, crazily enough, we use our own brains and tenacity to overcome adversity, like, you know, a science fiction story. Have you read or seen The Martian? That's what that looks like. Have you seen Battle Star Galactica? That's also what that would look like (hopefully minus the late-series hamfisted God stuff). Agreed. Aaaaaand you lost me. A game based on player choice shaping the narrative doesn't need a "sad, sobering ending" any more than it needs a party and dancing Ewoks. What it needs is an ending that reflects the choices made. That takes creative vision. Vision which Bioware has had in short supply in recent years. |
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jaegerbane
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jaegerbane on Aug 9, 2017 20:05:08 GMT
But the machines themselves are magic. Yes, they were built to stabilize the planets, but only because the writers specifically designed them to do so. If we consider every narrative element within their own logical context, then of course it's easy to call them logically consistent. You could just as easily use that to claim anything was entirely logical. Andromeda didn't need another advanced techno-precursor race who conveniently left their terraforming devices ready to go. It didn't need planets that were dying in just such a way to require those devices. It didn't need scenarios where deux-ex-SAM was the only solution. The writers created those narrative beats. They could have, though it would require more effort, created a compelling story without those things. One that maybe leveraged a bit more of our own internal drive. Tbh it sounds like you're making a different point to the one I was responding to. If your argument is that the entire concept of 'exploring ancient mysteries in outer space' is flawed from the outset then I can only assume you were expecting MEA to be something it was never going to be. On the point about what is logically consistent - realistically, no matter how you try to flower it up or try to equate it to whatever crazy argument you can think of, the whole point of them in the story is to be that boost that lets the player single-handedly jump start a planet's recovery (something that is realistically impossible every other way, given the universe's own internal rules). Getting annoyed that this is indeed what they do doesn't make sense. Your same argument mapped to the trilogy would be complaining about how the Mass Relays make everything too easy and that what the game really needed was massive relativistic effects and travel time lasting years. I mean, you can think that all you like but it doesn't make a convincing argument. Errrr.... well, I thoroughly enjoyed both book and film of The Martian but arguing it serves as a basis for a Mass Effect game is really easy to say and pretty difficult to do. A game where you spend 100 hours planting crops, dealing with damaged airlocks and cannibalising kit is not the answer to complaints that MEA is too aimless and not enough like the OT. The fact that one of your own examples employs the exact kind of thing you're arguing it shouldn't use, and ask me to ignore that part, should really explain how impractical such a suggestion actually is. |
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 9, 2017 20:18:58 GMT
Geez this is getting nuts. Arguing over sci fi using space magic. Do you guys realize how ridiculous that is? No sci fi project be it a game, movie or tv show is innocent here. I see nothing in Andromeda that uses any more space magic than the OT. Yes the radiation thing I keep seeing ok by real world standards it's not lethal but maybe the radiation in Andromeda is stronger? Look I know that's a handwave but if you go into any thing like this and analyze the hell out of it you can't possibly enjoy it. And how about Bioware writers using a brain for a change, that is the reason we have one. Or how about you using yours to realize quality of plot is subjective. |
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RoboticWater
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by RoboticWater on Aug 9, 2017 20:22:40 GMT
Aaaaaand you lost me. A game based on player choice shaping the narrative doesn't need a "sad, sobering ending" any more than it needs a party and dancing Ewoks. What it needs is an ending that reflects the choices made. That takes creative vision. Vision which Bioware has had in short supply in recent years. First of all: just because it's not what you want, doesn't mean it wouldn't take creative vision. I wouldn't particularly like a Mass Effect game where you go to a different galaxy only to invariably fail, but God damn, would I respect how big of a middle finger that would be. There's just something that strikes me as very Cyberpunk or New Wave about the notion. A move that utterly inadvisable for an power-fantasy RPG followup to Mass Effect 3 would be a work of art on its own. That, of course, assumes that the writing actually succeeds in creating a subversive game. Having an ending that meticulously accounts for your choices but nevertheless ends in only numerous distinct brands of failure would certainly be a way of doing that. Secondly, there are many ways a story can end badly, no reason your choices can't change that. I would hope that BioWare would not make the ending depend on a single choice at the very end which resulted in varying degrees of inanity. Though, if it did, I think there may be some kind of merit to pulling one of the biggest, dumbest moves in gaming history. |
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