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Pathfinder
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Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 12, 2017 22:41:41 GMT
What integral role did Garrus have in the main story in ME3? Tali's the only one with a really meaningful effect on a main story mission in ME3.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2017 22:50:41 GMT
Practically nothing changes other than flavor. Garrus is not integral to the mission or story.
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 12, 2017 22:55:19 GMT
Practically nothing changes other than flavor. Garrus is not integral to the mission or story. While that might be true, it's heavily implied based on the story that the default state is a Garrus that is alive. Not to mention, all of the effort put into various other scenes with Garrus, such as shooting bottles on the Citadel. Take any of the other companions from ME2, like Zaeed or Kasumi, and they are barely in ME3 at all.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2017 23:02:03 GMT
Practically nothing changes other than flavor. Garrus is not integral to the mission or story. While that might be true, it's heavily implied based on the story that the default state is a Garrus that is alive. Not to mention, all of the effort put into various other scenes with Garrus, such as shooting bottles on the Citadel. Take any of the other companions from ME2, like Zaeed or Kasumi, and they are barely in ME3 at all. Just because Garrus is alive in default doesn't make him integral to the story. There are literally no scenes in the game that require him since every scene involving him in the story has someone else take over, for example Liara or Samantha. What part of the story, other than his personal scenes, require Garrus to be alive? Garrus got more effort simply because he is a squadmate. Compared to the other squadmates in ME3, he is the least integral to the story. In fact some of the ME2 squadmates are more integral than him, like for example Jack who if alive offers a new ending to the Grissom Academy mission or Kasumi who offers a new ending to the side quest she is involved with.
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 12, 2017 23:06:17 GMT
Just because Garrus is alive in default doesn't make him integral to the story. There are literally no scenes in the game that require him since every scene involving him in the story has someone else take over, for example Liara or Samantha. What part of the story, other than his personal scenes, require Garrus to be alive? Garrus got more effort simply because he is a squadmate. Compared to the other squadmates in ME3, he is the least integral to the story. In fact some of the ME2 squadmates are more integral than him, like for example Jack who if alive offers a new ending to the Grissom Academy mission or Kasumi who offers a new ending to the side quest she is involved with. Agree to disagree, especially when you believe Kasumi and Jack play a larger role than Garrus. I'm just not seeing that at all. Garrus is literally included into the main plot. Kasumi is just part of a brief side quest. She doesn't even make an actual appearance in the game...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2017 23:09:32 GMT
Just because Garrus is alive in default doesn't make him integral to the story. There are literally no scenes in the game that require him since every scene involving him in the story has someone else take over, for example Liara or Samantha. What part of the story, other than his personal scenes, require Garrus to be alive? Garrus got more effort simply because he is a squadmate. Compared to the other squadmates in ME3, he is the least integral to the story. In fact some of the ME2 squadmates are more integral than him, like for example Jack who if alive offers a new ending to the Grissom Academy mission or Kasumi who offers a new ending to the side quest she is involved with. Agree to disagree, especially when you believe Kasumi and Jack play a larger role than Garrus. I'm just not seeing that at all. Garrus is literally included into the main plot. Kasumi is just part of a brief side quest. She doesn't even make an actual appearance in the game... I never said they played a larger role. I said they played a more integral role. There is a difference. They open up new paths in the game, while Garrus does nothing other than occupy a squadmate slot. They do something for the plot, albeit small, while he does nothing for the plot other than add flavor. Again I ask you: What part of the game requires that Garrus be alive to get other than his personal stuff? Yes she does.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2017 23:19:38 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 12, 2017 23:21:17 GMT
The fact that Garrus is tied to the main plot and takes up a squadmate slot should be self-explanatory.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2017 23:24:59 GMT
Agree to disagree, especially when you believe Kasumi and Jack play a larger role than Garrus. I'm just not seeing that at all. Garrus is literally included into the main plot. Kasumi is just part of a brief side quest. She doesn't even make an actual appearance in the game... Garrus adds nothing to the game. The ME2 squadmates add something to the game even if its only as a war asset. Take away Garrus, nothing has changed. Take away Jacob, the player misses out on a few assets. Sure the player still can get the ending he/she wants without Jacob being in ME3, but he still adds something. The same can be said for the other ME2 squadmates.
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Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 12, 2017 23:39:16 GMT
I might cause some disagreement here, but I also would've gotten rid of that Liara cameo. I think there's already enough favoritism towards Liara on Bioware's part. I would've replaced it with something like a Garrus or Wrex cameo.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2017 23:43:16 GMT
I might cause some disagreement here, but I also would've gotten rid of that Liara cameo. I think there's already enough favoritism towards Liara on Bioware's part. I would've replaced it with something like a Garrus or Wrex cameo. I'd've preferred none of our squad or crew from the Shepard Trilogy knew, since otherwise it makes whoever knew a bit of a jerk since here is Shepard crumbling under the weight of trying to ensure our survival when hearing about the AI would have been a great relief but instead of telling Shepard they keep it to themselves.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 12, 2017 23:44:23 GMT
I might cause some disagreement here, but I also would've gotten rid of that Liara cameo. I think there's already enough favoritism towards Liara on Bioware's part. I would've replaced it with something like a Garrus or Wrex cameo. I'd've preferred none of our squad or crew from the Shepard Trilogy knew, since otherwise it makes whoever knew a bit of a jerk since here is Shepard crumbling under the weight of our survival when hearing about the AI would have been a great relief but instead of telling Shepard they keep it to themselves. Even better!
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2017 23:48:28 GMT
I might cause some disagreement here, but I also would've gotten rid of that Liara cameo. I think there's already enough favoritism towards Liara on Bioware's part. I would've replaced it with something like a Garrus or Wrex cameo. I would have had Bailey show up. He happened to be in the area doing whatever.
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bladefist
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: bladefist1
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by bladefist on Aug 13, 2017 1:49:38 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way.
Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 13, 2017 2:25:57 GMT
]While that might be true, it's heavily implied based on the story that the default state is a Garrus that is alive. Not to mention, all of the effort put into various other scenes with Garrus, such as shooting bottles on the Citadel. Take any of the other companions from ME2, like Zaeed or Kasumi, and they are barely in ME3 at all. Umm... yeah, Garrus and Tali return as squadmates and the other ME2 squadmates don't.. It's got nothing to do with the plot.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 3:32:15 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way. Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1. Had Andromeda not had such a turbulent development cycle (it's a miracle anything was finished), I think the story and the game would have been far more developed. I think there's still hope for the Andromeda galaxy, whenever BioWare decides to give Mass Effect another try (probably after Anthem and DA4 release).
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Aug 13, 2017 12:51:03 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way. Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1. Bad writing is not a solution for bad writing. That's a phrase I would have on the wall near my desk if I was creative director.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 13, 2017 14:11:29 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way. Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1. 'Most popular' based on what? That would have been a giant clusterf*** that would only have caused another explosion over their horrible decision on the endings. Andromeda has potential. Problem is most of us don't necessarily want to wait to see it realized.
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Post by SofNascimento on Aug 13, 2017 14:42:09 GMT
A lot.
At firt I would not have such massive rectons as the Arks. Intead I would use the Leviathans to explain how we got to Andromeda. Both the Kett and the Angara were bad addition to the series, so scrap them, and scrap Ryder as well, or at least change them a lot...
Well, actually it's easier to say what I would keep: the combat, naming weapons, the exterior design of the Tempest and that's about it really.
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Post by tacsear on Aug 13, 2017 14:48:54 GMT
Agree to disagree, especially when you believe Kasumi and Jack play a larger role than Garrus. I'm just not seeing that at all. Garrus is literally included into the main plot. Kasumi is just part of a brief side quest. She doesn't even make an actual appearance in the game... Garrus adds nothing to the game. The ME2 squadmates add something to the game even if its only as a war asset. Take away Garrus, nothing has changed. Take away Jacob, the player misses out on a few assets. Sure the player still can get the ending he/she wants without Jacob being in ME3, but he still adds something. The same can be said for the other ME2 squadmates. Yeah I once had Garrus killed in suicide mission and nothing really changed in ME3
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 13, 2017 15:37:36 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way. Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1. 'Most popular' based on what? That would have been a giant clusterf*** that would only have caused another explosion over their horrible decision on the endings. Andromeda has potential. Problem is most of us don't necessarily want to wait to see it realized. "Most popular" based on telemetry, I presume. Bio's got pretty good data on what we chose and how often we chose it.
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,053 Likes: 2,929
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Aug 13, 2017 18:11:55 GMT
'Most popular' based on what? That would have been a giant clusterf*** that would only have caused another explosion over their horrible decision on the endings. Andromeda has potential. Problem is most of us don't necessarily want to wait to see it realized. "Most popular" based on telemetry, I presume. Bio's got pretty good data on what we chose and how often we chose it. From the few times they discuss it, it seems pretty detailed. Though it was surprising on the character data... given the internet's obsessions you'd think certain characters would run away with certain categories and yet the glimpses of data out there paint a much different picture. I'd love to see more detail, especially for ME, because I don't think the internet accurately portrays the majority in so many ways.
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Pathfinder
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 19:05:21 GMT
From the few times they discuss it, it seems pretty detailed. Though it was surprising on the character data... given the internet's obsessions you'd think certain characters would run away with certain categories and yet the glimpses of data out there paint a much different picture. I'd love to see more detail, especially for ME, because I don't think the internet accurately portrays the majority in so many ways. As is almost always the case, the internet largely represents the vocal minority. One would think FemShep was far more popular, considering many seem to always argue that Mark Meer's voice acting is wooden and flat. There also tends to be this assumption that Renegade Shepard is more popular than Paragon Shepard. The numbers, unlike words, are unbiased. Here's an example of just ME3:
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bossattack
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 66 Likes: 178
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bossattack
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bossattack on Aug 13, 2017 21:10:15 GMT
Wow, what a question. Basically, everything.
For a long time I wasn't sold on the whole going to Andromeda idea because everything we loved about Mass Effect was back in the Milky Way, but now I see what an amazing opportunity it provided that the actual game squandered. I would have made the game focus more on exploration for starters, not meaningless exploration, but the FEELING of exploration. The game would have tied more closely to a Star Trek type of vibe. You'd show up to Andromeda and there would be various civilizations at different technological states. Because this Galaxy evolved outside of the Reapers and their Mass Relays there is no Galactic Government. As a result, some species are highly advanced, other not so much. Some alien species have warred with others, while others have been largely left alone.
I would have had it so that Habitat 7 was a harsh planet but barely livable. The player's Ark would have shown up one year late as opposed to everyone else, other Arks got lost or separated like the finished game but their stories would be more compelling. The player's role would be to make alliances and deals with the various alien species out there in an attempt to improve your home-world and make it livable. This would involve injecting yourself into the socioeconomic and ethical disputes that are a part of this new galaxy. Perhaps two alien species have warred against each other for centuries so taking one species side for aid would impact your relations with the other. Perhaps there is a less technologically enhanced race and you have to choose whether to trade your advanced technology for access to their natural resources or maybe even simply take it by force due to your superior nature. Again, this would have an effect on how the other species viewed you.
With regards to the missing Arks some of them may have learned to create their own life in Andromeda. Say perhaps the Salarian Ark ends up near one of the most advanced races in the Galaxy and are taken in. Eventually, due to their more intelligent nature, they begin to thrive in this new society. But, this creates internal ire within the planet's society as civilians on this alien world feel as though the Salarians, with their superior intellect, are taking all of the best jobs and opportunities from native civilians. Message anyone? Perhaps one of the Arks has their occupants completely enslaved which causes us to have to rescue them, and then what if these enslaved individuals want to stay enslaved? You know, like the slavery conversation on Illum in Mass Effect 2.
These would be the kind of things my version of Andromeda would focus on, ethical and political debates with brand new alien species. A galaxy of limitless exploration and opportunity. You jump into a new system and are greeted with a message from some alien faction, their weapon ports open. Do you open fire or play it cool and see what happens? That's what I wanted.
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bladefist
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: bladefist1
Posts: 629 Likes: 771
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bladefist
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
bladefist1
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Post by bladefist on Aug 13, 2017 22:40:25 GMT
From the few times they discuss it, it seems pretty detailed. Though it was surprising on the character data... given the internet's obsessions you'd think certain characters would run away with certain categories and yet the glimpses of data out there paint a much different picture. I'd love to see more detail, especially for ME, because I don't think the internet accurately portrays the majority in so many ways. As is almost always the case, the internet largely represents the vocal minority. One would think FemShep was far more popular, considering many seem to always argue that Mark Meer's voice acting is wooden and flat. There also tends to be this assumption that Renegade Shepard is more popular than Paragon Shepard. The numbers, unlike words, are unbiased. Here's an example of just ME3: From the same data add the ending most people chose and now we can start on a true sequel. From the Kotaku article: In late 2012, Hudson asked fans if they’d prefer to see a game before or after the original trilogy. The answers were resounding: most people wanted a sequel, not a prequel.. “The feedback from the community, focus groups and the team working on the project was the same,” said one person who worked on the game. “ We wanted to do a game set after the trilogy, not during or before.” According to that data, 92% of players cured the Genophage in spectacular fashion. But since Andromeda is technically set during the trilogy, the Genophage is still a "thing."
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