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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 22:55:05 GMT
From the same data add the ending most people chose and now we can start on a true sequel. From the Kotaku article: In late 2012, Hudson asked fans if they’d prefer to see a game before or after the original trilogy. The answers were resounding: most people wanted a sequel, not a prequel.. “The feedback from the community, focus groups and the team working on the project was the same,” said one person who worked on the game. “ We wanted to do a game set after the trilogy, not during or before.” According to that data, 92% of players cured the Genophage in spectacular fashion. But since Andromeda is technically set during the trilogy, the Genophage is still a "thing." A direct sequel to ME3 wouldn't have been possible. There would have been just as much drama, hatred, memes, etc., compared to Andromeda, if BioWare dictated what the "canon ending" was. You would have had many posters on BSN condemning, attacking, threatening, and potentially worse for "invalidating" their world states in the MET. As if ME3's endings weren't a controversy enough, you really think BioWare would have reopened that can of worms and decided "Synthesis is the canon ending, and everybody is now running around with glowing eyes"? Now, in all seriousness, the most workable ending in ME3 is High EMS Destroy. It's the goal that Shepard set out to do from the start, and its only drawback is that the Geth are destroyed in the process, along with the Reapers. Other than that, it could have conceivably been a viable option to continue another story right after the MET. Again, it was never going to fly with some picking Destroy, some picking Control, some picking Synthesis, and some even picking Refusal. Doing a soft reboot was the only practical response, given how divisive the ending of ME3 still is. Now, I could have done without the Genophage returning in MEA (it's largely pointless anyway given they use space magic to undermine it), but everything else was largely fine. I think Andromeda is a workable foundation for a future Mass Effect game, once BioWare lets the franchise rest a bit. The game is still fresh in the minds of many haters and critics, so time is something the franchise is in desperate need of before it can be revived.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 13, 2017 23:19:52 GMT
and potentially worse for "invalidating" their world states in the MET. They already did.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 13, 2017 23:55:06 GMT
Wow, what a question. Basically, everything. For a long time I wasn't sold on the whole going to Andromeda idea because everything we loved about Mass Effect was back in the Milky Way, but now I see what an amazing opportunity it provided that the actual game squandered. I would have made the game focus more on exploration for starters, not meaningless exploration, but the FEELING of exploration. The game would have tied more closely to a Star Trek type of vibe. You'd show up to Andromeda and there would be various civilizations at different technological states. Because this Galaxy evolved outside of the Reapers and their Mass Relays there is no Galactic Government. As a result, some species are highly advanced, other not so much. Some alien species have warred with others, while others have been largely left alone. I would have had it so that Habitat 7 was a harsh planet but barely livable. The player's Ark would have shown up one year late as opposed to everyone else, other Arks got lost or separated like the finished game but their stories would be more compelling. The player's role would be to make alliances and deals with the various alien species out there in an attempt to improve your home-world and make it livable. This would involve injecting yourself into the socioeconomic and ethical disputes that are a part of this new galaxy. Perhaps two alien species have warred against each other for centuries so taking one species side for aid would impact your relations with the other. Perhaps there is a less technologically enhanced race and you have to choose whether to trade your advanced technology for access to their natural resources or maybe even simply take it by force due to your superior nature. Again, this would have an effect on how the other species viewed you. With regards to the missing Arks some of them may have learned to create their own life in Andromeda. Say perhaps the Salarian Ark ends up near one of the most advanced races in the Galaxy and are taken in. Eventually, due to their more intelligent nature, they begin to thrive in this new society. But, this creates internal ire within the planet's society as civilians on this alien world feel as though the Salarians, with their superior intellect, are taking all of the best jobs and opportunities from native civilians. Message anyone? Perhaps one of the Arks has their occupants completely enslaved which causes us to have to rescue them, and then what if these enslaved individuals want to stay enslaved? You know, like the slavery conversation on Illum in Mass Effect 2. These would be the kind of things my version of Andromeda would focus on, ethical and political debates with brand new alien species. A galaxy of limitless exploration and opportunity. You jump into a new system and are greeted with a message from some alien faction, their weapon ports open. Do you open fire or play it cool and see what happens? That's what I wanted. I like this vision, but I don't see how you can bring it in at anything like the ME:A budget.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 0:00:08 GMT
and potentially worse for "invalidating" their world states in the MET. They already did. No world states in ME3 were invalidated by MEA, considering MEA completely avoids the issue entirely. The only way world states would have been invalidated is if BioWare actually chose a canon ending for ME3.
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N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Aug 14, 2017 0:01:29 GMT
and potentially worse for "invalidating" their world states in the MET. They already did. How?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 14, 2017 0:04:21 GMT
A direct sequel to ME3 wouldn't have been possible. There would have been just as much drama, hatred, memes, etc., compared to Andromeda, if BioWare dictated what the "canon ending" was. You would have had many posters on BSN condemning, attacking, threatening, and potentially worse for "invalidating" their world states in the MET. As if ME3's endings weren't a controversy enough, you really think BioWare would have reopened that can of worms and decided "Synthesis is the canon ending, and everybody is now running around with glowing eyes"? Now, in all seriousness, the most workable ending in ME3 is High EMS Destroy. It's the goal that Shepard set out to do from the start, and its only drawback is that the Geth are destroyed in the process, along with the Reapers. Other than that, it could have conceivably been a viable option to continue another story right after the MET. Again, it was never going to fly with some picking Destroy, some picking Control, some picking Synthesis, and some even picking Refusal. I dunno. "Just as much drama" doesn't make continuing in the MW worse than going to Andromeda, it just means that you've got idiots whining whatever you do. The people who would actually have been bothered by Bio picking a canon ending have always been pretty scarce around here. It's much more common to see someone worrying that other players wouldn't have accepted the design choice.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 0:08:17 GMT
I dunno. "Just as much drama" doesn't make continuing in the MW worse than going to Andromeda, it just means that you've got idiots whining whatever you do. The people who would actually have been bothered by Bio picking a canon ending have always been pretty scarce around here. It's much more common to see someone worrying that other players wouldn't have accepted the design choice. You must not have been on old BSN. The ME3 ending was absolutely toxic the entire time until that forum was shut down. There's no way declaring a canon ending would have gone well with the community. BioWare made the wise and only sensible choice by avoiding the issue entirely.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2017 0:17:35 GMT
No world states in ME3 were invalidated by MEA, considering MEA completely avoids the issue entirely. The only way world states would have been invalidated is if BioWare actually chose a canon ending for ME3. Never said anything about MEA. They did ignore at least one choice in the trilogy In ME1, the player has the choice to recruit Garrus or not. In ME3, if Kirrahe survived ME1 and Garrus is taken to Sur'Kesh, both know each other by name? How is that possible?
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N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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July 2017
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Aug 14, 2017 0:28:28 GMT
No world states in ME3 were invalidated by MEA, considering MEA completely avoids the issue entirely. The only way world states would have been invalidated is if BioWare actually chose a canon ending for ME3. Never said anything about MEA. They did ignore at least one choice in the trilogy In ME1, the player has the choice to recruit Garrus or not. In ME3, if Kirrahe survived ME1 and Garrus is taken to Sur'Kesh, both know each other by name? How is that possible? oh okay. Misread the post. Definitely a bit of a plothole.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bossattack on Aug 14, 2017 0:55:47 GMT
Wow, what a question. Basically, everything. For a long time I wasn't sold on the whole going to Andromeda idea because everything we loved about Mass Effect was back in the Milky Way, but now I see what an amazing opportunity it provided that the actual game squandered. I would have made the game focus more on exploration for starters, not meaningless exploration, but the FEELING of exploration. The game would have tied more closely to a Star Trek type of vibe. You'd show up to Andromeda and there would be various civilizations at different technological states. Because this Galaxy evolved outside of the Reapers and their Mass Relays there is no Galactic Government. As a result, some species are highly advanced, other not so much. Some alien species have warred with others, while others have been largely left alone. I would have had it so that Habitat 7 was a harsh planet but barely livable. The player's Ark would have shown up one year late as opposed to everyone else, other Arks got lost or separated like the finished game but their stories would be more compelling. The player's role would be to make alliances and deals with the various alien species out there in an attempt to improve your home-world and make it livable. This would involve injecting yourself into the socioeconomic and ethical disputes that are a part of this new galaxy. Perhaps two alien species have warred against each other for centuries so taking one species side for aid would impact your relations with the other. Perhaps there is a less technologically enhanced race and you have to choose whether to trade your advanced technology for access to their natural resources or maybe even simply take it by force due to your superior nature. Again, this would have an effect on how the other species viewed you. With regards to the missing Arks some of them may have learned to create their own life in Andromeda. Say perhaps the Salarian Ark ends up near one of the most advanced races in the Galaxy and are taken in. Eventually, due to their more intelligent nature, they begin to thrive in this new society. But, this creates internal ire within the planet's society as civilians on this alien world feel as though the Salarians, with their superior intellect, are taking all of the best jobs and opportunities from native civilians. Message anyone? Perhaps one of the Arks has their occupants completely enslaved which causes us to have to rescue them, and then what if these enslaved individuals want to stay enslaved? You know, like the slavery conversation on Illum in Mass Effect 2. These would be the kind of things my version of Andromeda would focus on, ethical and political debates with brand new alien species. A galaxy of limitless exploration and opportunity. You jump into a new system and are greeted with a message from some alien faction, their weapon ports open. Do you open fire or play it cool and see what happens? That's what I wanted. I like this vision, but I don't see how you can bring it in at anything like the ME:A budget. Why? I'm basically just asking for Mass Effect 1 but in a new galaxy. The idea is to have the feeling of a limitless universe while working within the series established constraints. On a design level my idea would mainly consist of about 4-5 "planets." I use that term loosely because they would be nothing like the vast open planets of Andromeda. You'd have one planet that would be a city for the most advanced race, this would be on the scale of Witcher 3's Novigrad. A lot of side quests would be tied into here. Then maybe another planet also with a city but on a smaller scale. And then, perhaps one more "planet" that is a loose connection of towns. The other planets could be less populated worlds and more environmentally focused (jungle, desert, ice). But, really none of these places would be larger than any Dragon Age: Inquisition zones. Hell, the majority would be smaller than zones like "The Hissing Wastes." The rest of the game would be linear levels as the plot needs, just like Mass Effect 1-3. Bigger worlds almost never mean better to me, I prefer a much smaller scale but dense experience.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 14, 2017 1:29:41 GMT
I dunno. "Just as much drama" doesn't make continuing in the MW worse than going to Andromeda, it just means that you've got idiots whining whatever you do. The people who would actually have been bothered by Bio picking a canon ending have always been pretty scarce around here. It's much more common to see someone worrying that other players wouldn't have accepted the design choice. You must not have been on old BSN. The ME3 ending was absolutely toxic the entire time until that forum was shut down. There's no way declaring a canon ending would have gone well with the community. BioWare made the wise and only sensible choice by avoiding the issue entirely. He was there. Pretty much nothing was going to go well with the community, they alienated a huge portion of us by giving us no ending that felt acceptable. We could only choose what felt less awful. Therefore, making Andromeda a polished game was crucial for the future of Mass Effect, and we saw how that went. Now, the universe is in limbo and everyone is looking for a new game. They should have either committed to making a high polished game with their best effort, or canned the franchise for a later soft reboot far in the future from Shepard's ending. As a producer, I would have shut the whole thing down at the time when Mac was about to be brought in - they should have just canned it. If I were Mac at that point, I would have demanded more time after assessing the ridiculous state the project was in. If that was denied, I resign.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Aug 14, 2017 1:45:10 GMT
I would have chosen the most popular choices and ending to ME3 and made a real sequel based on that. Andromeda could have been a space exploration project in the making or the Angara and Kett can show up in the Milky Way. Andromeda in its current state removes too much and adds too little in return. Of course DLC can prove me wrong but we may not even get 1. 'Most popular' based on what? That would have been a giant clusterf*** that would only have caused another explosion over their horrible decision on the endings. Andromeda has potential. Problem is most of us don't necessarily want to wait to see it realized. Most of us want a much better game, that's all, not the same mess that was the fourth game.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 14, 2017 2:14:04 GMT
I dunno. "Just as much drama" doesn't make continuing in the MW worse than going to Andromeda, it just means that you've got idiots whining whatever you do. The people who would actually have been bothered by Bio picking a canon ending have always been pretty scarce around here. It's much more common to see someone worrying that other players wouldn't have accepted the design choice. You must not have been on old BSN. The ME3 ending was absolutely toxic the entire time until that forum was shut down. There's no way declaring a canon ending would have gone well with the community. BioWare made the wise and only sensible choice by avoiding the issue entirely. Oh, please. I've been with the various Bio boards since NWN. I don't see how the argument works. Going to Andromeda can't make anyone who isn't an idiot forget the ME3 ending, since ME3's irreconcilable ending states are why the setting moved to Andromeda.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 14, 2017 2:46:31 GMT
From the few times they discuss it, it seems pretty detailed. Though it was surprising on the character data... given the internet's obsessions you'd think certain characters would run away with certain categories and yet the glimpses of data out there paint a much different picture. I'd love to see more detail, especially for ME, because I don't think the internet accurately portrays the majority in so many ways. As is almost always the case, the internet largely represents the vocal minority. One would think FemShep was far more popular, considering many seem to always argue that Mark Meer's voice acting is wooden and flat. There also tends to be this assumption that Renegade Shepard is more popular than Paragon Shepard. The numbers, unlike words, are unbiased. Here's an example of just ME3: I personally didn't understand why a lot of people liked Liara, she felt like a very forced love interest, especially in the later games. Plus her character development was imo, possibly the most egregious one.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 5:34:49 GMT
He was there. Pretty much nothing was going to go well with the community, they alienated a huge portion of us by giving us no ending that felt acceptable. We could only choose what felt less awful. Therefore, making Andromeda a polished game was crucial for the future of Mass Effect, and we saw how that went. Now, the universe is in limbo and everyone is looking for a new game. They should have either committed to making a high polished game with their best effort, or canned the franchise for a later soft reboot far in the future from Shepard's ending. As a producer, I would have shut the whole thing down at the time when Mac was about to be brought in - they should have just canned it. If I were Mac at that point, I would have demanded more time after assessing the ridiculous state the project was in. If that was denied, I resign. Well, Mac has been with BioWare since the beginning of Mass Effect, at least. He was brought in to try and bring focus to the Andromeda project, but I think he likes being at BioWare. I can't really fault him for the chaos that was MEA's development, but I can still blame him for how poorly executed ME3's ending was. In truth, the game should have just been cancelled. After being in development for two years with nothing to show for it, concept art and prototypes should have been saved and the franchise could have been brought back later. Unfortunately, that did not happen. Hopefully, after Anthem and DA4 are released, Casey Hudson will make it a priority to revitalize Mass Effect. I think the biggest mistake the project made was the fact that he was never heavily involved, as he was actively working on creating Anthem. I personally didn't understand why a lot of people liked Liara, she felt like a very forced love interest, especially in the later games. Plus her character development was imo, possibly the most egregious one. I didn't like Liara at all in ME1. I found her character to be annoying and bothersome. However, once her character was rewritten in ME2, I found her a lot more enjoyable. Especially after the Shadow Broker DLC, I was able to take her character more seriously. That being said, she was never my favorite love interest. Miranda will always be my number one, but Liara just had the most attention from BioWare. Look at Liara's romance arc and scene in ME3. She is far more developed than any other character, which is part of the reason I think so many defaulted with her romance.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 14, 2017 5:42:48 GMT
In ME1, the player has the choice to recruit Garrus or not. In ME3, if Kirrahe survived ME1 and Garrus is taken to Sur'Kesh, both know each other by name? How is that possible? Likely an oversight. One question I hope you can answer: Does Garrus still mention the places you visited in ME1 at the bottle shooting sequence if you didn't recruit him?
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Aug 14, 2017 8:21:17 GMT
I personally didn't understand why a lot of people liked Liara, she felt like a very forced love interest, especially in the later games. Plus her character development was imo, possibly the most egregious one. I didn't like Liara at all in ME1. I found her character to be annoying and bothersome. However, once her character was rewritten in ME2, I found her a lot more enjoyable. Especially after the Shadow Broker DLC, I was able to take her character more seriously. That being said, she was never my favorite love interest. Miranda will always be my number one, but Liara just had the most attention from BioWare. Look at Liara's romance arc and scene in ME3. She is far more developed than any other character, which is part of the reason I think so many defaulted with her romance. That seems to be the vibe that I get from a lot of people, but I feel it would've made more sense for there to be a completely different character in Liara's place in ME2, LoTSB, and even ME3 to an extent. I've made this argument before, but putting Liara into the following rules felt very much out of character: 1. The one who got your body from the shadow broker. 2. Becoming one of the best info brokers on Illium within two years. 3. Becoming the shadow broker whilst also being a squadmate in ME3. I mean how the fuck did she develop those skills that quickly, I mean, based on how she was established in ME1, she would've been eaten alive on Illium. Add to the fact that, depending on how someone played, Shepard doesn't even necessarily like Liara, heck, someone could've had Shepard be a total dick to her and she still loves you that much? I mean I don't mind that people like Liara in ME2, LoTSB, and ME3, if they like Liara in those games thats cool, I just feel putting a different character in her place would've been a much smarter route.
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Post by abaris on Aug 14, 2017 9:52:24 GMT
I personally didn't understand why a lot of people liked Liara, she felt like a very forced love interest, especially in the later games. Plus her character development was imo, possibly the most egregious one. Liara was most forced in ME1. There's virtually no buildup to her romance. I don't know how the other romances were handled, since I played Femshep and she would have never romanced Kaidan. As for Liara, the other games in the trilogy just take it from the botched effort in ME1.
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Post by sil on Aug 14, 2017 10:06:28 GMT
Liara was most forced in ME3, the sequencing is there so she gains romance points for her integer quicker than any other romance. That's why so many people kept accidentally ending up in a romance with her, because even answering positively adds points towards it.
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Pathfinder
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 10:37:41 GMT
That seems to be the vibe that I get from a lot of people, but I feel it would've made more sense for there to be a completely different character in Liara's place in ME2, LoTSB, and even ME3 to an extent. I've made this argument before, but putting Liara into the following rules felt very much out of character: 1. The one who got your body from the shadow broker. 2. Becoming one of the best info brokers on Illium within two years. 3. Becoming the shadow broker whilst also being a squadmate in ME3. I mean how the fuck did she develop those skills that quickly, I mean, based on how she was established in ME1, she would've been eaten alive on Illium. Add to the fact that, depending on how someone played, Shepard doesn't even necessarily like Liara, heck, someone could've had Shepard be a total dick to her and she still loves you that much? I mean I don't mind that people like Liara in ME2, LoTSB, and ME3, if they like Liara in those games thats cool, I just feel putting a different character in her place would've been a much smarter route. I think the only way to rationalize it is to assume there's more to the story than we know. We don't know what Liara really went through those two years, since Shepard was dead. That is where BioWare would have to make an argument for how Liara went from being a naive and foolish archeologist, to becoming a deadly and cold info broker, killing anyone that's a liability. As you indicated, Liara's motivations make more sense if she was Shepard's love interest. In all honesty, I think Liara was just hugely unpopular in ME1, and BioWare knew that. As a result, they just rebuilt her character from the ground up. I'm not sure why she had to be so integral to the plot, but obviously BioWare really liked her, as well as Garrus and Tali. I can't complain too much, as I liked her makeover, for the most part. Still, I would have preferred Miranda as a companion over half the companions we had in ME3.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 14, 2017 10:44:05 GMT
I never didn't like Liara. Maybe it's my Caveman Captain Kirk, but a blue alien woman was all it took. She didn't have to have a model perfect body, but it didn't hurt.
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Post by abaris on Aug 14, 2017 11:18:16 GMT
BioWare would have to make an argument for how Liara went from being a naive and foolish archeologist, to becoming a deadly and cold info broker, killing anyone that's a liability. As you indicated, Liara's motivations make more sense if she was Shepard's love interest. For me it's one of these easy instances of suspending disbelief. I always went with her naive attitude being an act and the real Liara being someone deeply connected and ambitious. The scene in Lair of the Shadow Broker made it even easier. The one where Shepard constantly tries to catch up with her to remind her of what he/she thinks to be the real Liara. I'm pretty sure this all didn't happen by design, but they cut that particular corner pretty nicely to present a different Liara.
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lilyenachaos
Don't grow up, it's a trap.
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lilyenachaos
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 14, 2017 13:34:30 GMT
'Most popular' based on what? That would have been a giant clusterf*** that would only have caused another explosion over their horrible decision on the endings. Andromeda has potential. Problem is most of us don't necessarily want to wait to see it realized. Most of us want a much better game, that's all, not the same mess that was the fourth game. I meant Andromeda as the setting for future games, not as in MEA. There isn't much they can do to salvage MEA, other than give us really well done DLC. I'm not holding my breath.
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♨ Retired
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Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
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themikefest
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themikefest
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
Oversight or not, it was never fixed. Yes. At least the one time I did the bottle thing and not recruit him in ME1 If he's taken to Horizon he will mention A/K by name, but if he isn't recruited in ME1, he won't mention their name.
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Champion of the Raven Queen
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maximusarael020
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maximusarael020
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MaximusArael020
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 14, 2017 14:28:56 GMT
No world states in ME3 were invalidated by MEA, considering MEA completely avoids the issue entirely. The only way world states would have been invalidated is if BioWare actually chose a canon ending for ME3. Never said anything about MEA. They did ignore at least one choice in the trilogy In ME1, the player has the choice to recruit Garrus or not. In ME3, if Kirrahe survived ME1 and Garrus is taken to Sur'Kesh, both know each other by name? How is that possible? Well, technically all of ME3 would be ignoring players' world states, since some people completed ME2 with everyone dying in the Suicide Mission, including Shep.
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