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Post by jackdaniel on Aug 9, 2017 20:35:17 GMT
My opinion of Andromeda, six month later, and more importantly, having finally played witcher 3, has changed somewhat.
Unlike a lot of people, I didn't play W3 before playing Andromeda, because I didn't like W2 all that much. At the release, I didn't get why people are drawing comparison between them since in my mind, Witcher series so different for Mass Effect. Reading threads on this forum praising W3 actually convinced me to get that the game and play it.
First of all, the games are very similar, direct comparison is fully justified. Both are narrative driven RPG, with heavy reliance on cut scene to tell story and diagloue choices to build character. Both are open world, both have crafting/inventory/codex/scanning.... Even the quest systems are setup similarly, with main/secondary/side. Romance and relationship with NPCs are important aspects, and supposedly choices made in game will influence the outcome. They are so similar that I can't tell who is copying whom. I apologize to people on the forum to whom I said comparing the two franchises is stupid.
It also proved to me that open world is not a death sentence to RPG. I had thought that Andromeda's story suffered from having to cope with being an open world game, and that content will inevitably be stretched too thin, and that boring fillers are necessary evil. I will say that I am wrong on that point. Open world games maybe harder to make, but it just means one has to work harder.
Second, I said before that I didn't care much about graphics glitch or facial animation. I take that back now after playing W3. Now I realize how important animation is, especially facial animation to tell a story in a visual medium. Long story short, I ended up being torn between the game's romance options, which is surprising since one of them has never been the the previous games. I think what sold me on Yennefer is how well her expressions are animated in scenes, that you can actually see her sadness, anger, bitchiness and disappointment on her face. Those animations are worth a thousand dialogues.
Before now, I have hated on Andromeda's writing, and blamed pretty much everything I hated on what I thought were inconsistent/bad writing. Now I wonder if the animations and cut scenes had been done better, maybe the entire game would have felt different.
Anyway, that's just how my thought on Andromeda has changed. I didn't have a chance to compare the two games when Andromeda first came out since I havent played W3 at that point, I felt I missed out on some very insight forum discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 20:43:19 GMT
You make some very valid points but I fear this thread will end up quite badly because the suckers of TW3 will start entering in contrast with the zealots of BW. It's part of the nature of fandom, don't be disappointed should the thread degenerate later on.
I agree with the importance of animations especially the facial ones in expressing emotions during a conversation though you should be honest Geralt is as emotive as a brick, it's not that he benefitted from facial animation that much. Agreed on the rest though let's be fair being your own boss helps a lot in shaping the game you want. BW has to deal with EA.
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Post by Psychevore on Aug 9, 2017 20:50:55 GMT
I can't stand Geralt and therefore have never put more than 5 hours into my 3 tries of the game. Was the first game I bought for my PS4 pro.
I did not make an account on forums to bitch about the game though, so I got that going for me.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 9, 2017 20:54:23 GMT
... though you should be honest Geralt is as emotive as a brick, it's not that he benefitted from facial animation that much. Yea but he is supposed to be. It's part of being a Witcher after all. So even his brick-like facial expressions work to contrast the others. Agree mostly with the OP otherwise, though I'll give it to the ME:A devs, they did fix a lot of issues with the patches. Kudos to them for that.
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Post by cypherj on Aug 9, 2017 21:11:15 GMT
I think that animations are more important than people realize. I never mentioned the animations when I critiqued the game at first, but I tried to go back and play after the patch 1.09 and there's more difference than you realize. I didn't finish an entire playthrough, but the scene where you first arrive at the Nexus.
Where your Ryder without any emotion on her face says "He...he didn't make it" Then Addison, emotionless expression says "Alec...is...dead." (Not the best delivered line either) Then they pan back to your Ryder who looks like they just don't give a F---.
Seeing that scene after the patches, it comes across so much better. It makes the original scene look so bad.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Quickpaw on Aug 9, 2017 22:08:20 GMT
And the original plan was to have this game be reliant solely on procedural generation. The fact that we got as "good" a game was we did with a mere 18 months of actual work is incredible, but it doesn't excuse EA for not properly supporting the game or handing the ME franchise to rookie out of their depth developers, or the developers themselves for not reigning themselves in (and not understanding why Bioware games are so beloved. I mean, COME ON. Trying to No Man's Sky MASS EFFECT?! You HAD to know that would end badly)
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 9, 2017 22:22:55 GMT
Here's a great editorial piece PC Gamer did earlier this year to explain why TW3's animations were so impressive: www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3s-animators-created-7000-new-animations-in-one-year-for-the-dlc/CDPR invested heavily into incredibly adaptive and flexible tools. It was the only way they could maintain high quality animations in an open world RPG with 100s of hours of gameplay. Most AAA studios would not have the funding to be able to invest as much into animation as CDPR did. It's part of the reason why CDPR is in a league of its own, because it has GOG to support its financial endeavors.
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Post by abaris on Aug 9, 2017 22:34:27 GMT
Before now, I have hated on Andromeda's writing, and blamed pretty much everything I hated on what I thought were inconsistent/bad writing. Now I wonder if the animations and cut scenes had been done better, maybe the entire game would have felt different. Believe me, if you didn't like the writing, no animation would have fixed that. I never criticized the game for it's animations. Only for it's lackluster story, lead and companions. That doesn't change if they suddenly dance the Fandango. They fixed a lot of release problems and I appreciate that, but they can't fix what I feel is wrong with the game. And I'm only comparing it to previous Bioware experiences, nothing else.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 9, 2017 23:02:41 GMT
That's not how business work. GOG isn't some kind of a bottomless well of cash, everything needs to justify itself financially separately.
On the other hand, Bioware is a "division of EA", so them supposedly not having money is because EA decided not to invest, not because the resources do not exist.
I never claimed CDPR has "some kind of a bottomless well of cash." Those are your words, not mine. What you do have to realize, which you apparently don't, is the cost of living in Poland is far cheaper than in Canada, and TW3 had double the budget that MEA had. TW3 had an $81 million budget, versus the $40 million budget MEA had to work with. Besides the cost of living differences, the way EA distributes money to its various developers is different from CD Projekt Group giving money to CDPR. EA provides BioWare, as a whole, with a budget for all of its games. That means that the General Manager of BioWare (now Casey Hudson), has to divide that budget among the three BioWare studios (now two since Montreal has been mostly dissolved). Between SWTOR, Anthem, and Dragon Age 4, MEA was only able to afford a budget of $40 million, and this is with that 5-year dev cycle being included. CD Projekt Group, on the other hand, only has two studios, with one really being a complementary studio to the main CDPR. Thus, it's far easier for CD Projekt Group to funnel in a lot more money and resources into one project, rather than have to worry about dividing money between various studios and various projects. I haven't even brought up the fact that RedEngine (now the fourth iteration for Cyberpunk 2077) is custom-built for CDPR games, whereas Frostbite is really only built for Battlefield. That requires even more money and time on BioWare's part to work with an engine not designed for their games. CDPR is simply in a situation where it can funnel more resources and money into a single project than any other developer on the planet. The only other studio that I can think of with this kind of financial freedom would be Bethesda Game Studios under ZeniMax Inc. They are also able to get away with a lot because ZeniMax is a privately-traded corporation, and not publicly-traded like Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. Another example would be Rockstar Games, because Take-Two lets them do whatever they want.
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Post by rahavan on Aug 10, 2017 0:34:19 GMT
Before now, I have hated on Andromeda's writing, and blamed pretty much everything I hated on what I thought were inconsistent/bad writing. Now I wonder if the animations and cut scenes had been done better, maybe the entire game would have felt different. Believe me, if you didn't like the writing, no animation would have fixed that. I never criticized the game for it's animations. Only for it's lackluster story, lead and companions. That doesn't change if they suddenly dance the Fandango. They fixed a lot of release problems and I appreciate that, but they can't fix what I feel is wrong with the game. And I'm only comparing it to previous Bioware experiences, nothing else. Well for me not laughing at terrible animations would have helped the story. I dont know how many times i went "wow, ugh, this is so bad I'm cringing" When you constantly get pulled out and put back in reality it makes it harder to do the role play part of a rpg. Basically MUH IMMERSIONS
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 10, 2017 0:58:23 GMT
My opinion of Andromeda, six month later, and more importantly, having finally played witcher 3, has changed somewhat. Unlike a lot of people, I didn't play W3 before playing Andromeda, because I didn't like W2 all that much. At the release, I didn't get why people are drawing comparison between them since in my mind, Witcher series so different for Mass Effect. Reading threads on this forum praising W3 actually convinced me to get that the game and play it. First of all, the games are very similar, direct comparison is fully justified. Both are narrative driven RPG, with heavy reliance on cut scene to tell story and diagloue choices to build character. Both are open world, both have crafting/inventory/codex/scanning.... Even the quest systems are setup similarly, with main/secondary/side. Romance and relationship with NPCs are important aspects, and supposedly choices made in game will influence the outcome. They are so similar that I can't tell who is copying whom. I apologize to people on the forum to whom I said comparing the two franchises is stupid. It also proved to me that open world is not a death sentence to RPG. I had thought that Andromeda's story suffered from having to cope with being an open world game, and that content will inevitably be stretched too thin, and that boring fillers are necessary evil. I will say that I am wrong on that point. Open world games maybe harder to make, but it just means one has to work harder. Second, I said before that I didn't care much about graphics glitch or facial animation. I take that back now after playing W3. Now I realize how important animation is, especially facial animation to tell a story in a visual medium. Long story short, I ended up being torn between the game's romance options, which is surprising since one of them has never been the the previous games. I think what sold me on Yennefer is how well her expressions are animated in scenes, that you can actually see her sadness, anger, bitchiness and disappointment on her face. Those animations are worth a thousand dialogues. Before now, I have hated on Andromeda's writing, and blamed pretty much everything I hated on what I thought were inconsistent/bad writing. Now I wonder if the animations and cut scenes had been done better, maybe the entire game would have felt different. Anyway, that's just how my thought on Andromeda has changed. I didn't have a chance to compare the two games when Andromeda first came out since I havent played W3 at that point, I felt I missed out on some very insight forum discussion. Unlike you who played TW3 on the back end, I played TW3 before MEA and TW3 really raised the bar in terms of telling a mature story, NPCs, open world, and side quest. MEA failed to compare. You are not alone, TW3 is seen by many as the measuring stick for a quality open world RPG.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 10, 2017 2:58:37 GMT
That's not how business work. GOG isn't some kind of a bottomless well of cash, everything needs to justify itself financially separately.
On the other hand, Bioware is a "division of EA", so them supposedly not having money is because EA decided not to invest, not because the resources do not exist.
I never claimed CDPR has "some kind of a bottomless well of cash." Those are your words, not mine. What you do have to realize, which you apparently don't, is the cost of living in Poland is far cheaper than in Canada, and TW3 had double the budget that MEA had. TW3 had an $81 million budget, versus the $40 million budget MEA had to work with. Besides the cost of living differences, the way EA distributes money to its various developers is different from CD Projekt Group giving money to CDPR. EA provides BioWare, as a whole, with a budget for all of its games. That means that the General Manager of BioWare (now Casey Hudson), has to divide that budget among the three BioWare studios (now two since Montreal has been mostly dissolved). Between SWTOR, Anthem, and Dragon Age 4, MEA was only able to afford a budget of $40 million, and this is with that 5-year dev cycle being included. CD Projekt Group, on the other hand, only has two studios, with one really being a complementary studio to the main CDPR. Thus, it's far easier for CD Projekt Group to funnel in a lot more money and resources into one project, rather than have to worry about dividing money between various studios and various projects. I haven't even brought up the fact that RedEngine (now the fourth iteration for Cyberpunk 2077) is custom-built for CDPR games, whereas Frostbite is really only built for Battlefield. That requires even more money and time on BioWare's part to work with an engine not designed for their games. CDPR is simply in a situation where it can funnel more resources and money into a single project than any other developer on the planet. The only other studio that I can think of with this kind of financial freedom would be Bethesda Game Studios under ZeniMax Inc. They are also able to get away with a lot because ZeniMax is a privately-traded corporation, and not publicly-traded like Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. Another example would be Rockstar Games, because Take-Two lets them do whatever they want. That 40m is an imaginary number propagated by none other than Pewdiepie in a YouTube rant against Andromeda.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 10, 2017 3:21:46 GMT
It also proved to me that open world is not a death sentence to RPG. I had thought that Andromeda's story suffered from having to cope with being an open world game, and that content will inevitably be stretched too thin, and that boring fillers are necessary evil. I will say that I am wrong on that point. Open world games maybe harder to make, but it just means one has to work harder. This is why I use TW3 and HZD as counter-examples every time the "open world means bad story/RPG/game" meme pops up. Stop blaming the style and start blaming the writers/devs for poor execution.
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Post by jackdaniel on Aug 10, 2017 3:26:07 GMT
... though you should be honest Geralt is as emotive as a brick, it's not that he benefitted from facial animation that much. Yea but he is supposed to be. It's part of being a Witcher after all. So even his brick-like facial expressions work to contrast the others. Agree mostly with the OP otherwise, though I'll give it to the ME:A devs, they did fix a lot of issues with the patches. Kudos to them for that. That's true for Geralt. I guess since he is the player character, it wasn't much of an issue for me.
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Post by jackdaniel on Aug 10, 2017 3:35:33 GMT
My opinion of Andromeda, six month later, and more importantly, having finally played witcher 3, has changed somewhat. Unlike a lot of people, I didn't play W3 before playing Andromeda, because I didn't like W2 all that much. At the release, I didn't get why people are drawing comparison between them since in my mind, Witcher series so different for Mass Effect. Reading threads on this forum praising W3 actually convinced me to get that the game and play it. First of all, the games are very similar, direct comparison is fully justified. Both are narrative driven RPG, with heavy reliance on cut scene to tell story and diagloue choices to build character. Both are open world, both have crafting/inventory/codex/scanning.... Even the quest systems are setup similarly, with main/secondary/side. Romance and relationship with NPCs are important aspects, and supposedly choices made in game will influence the outcome. They are so similar that I can't tell who is copying whom. I apologize to people on the forum to whom I said comparing the two franchises is stupid. It also proved to me that open world is not a death sentence to RPG. I had thought that Andromeda's story suffered from having to cope with being an open world game, and that content will inevitably be stretched too thin, and that boring fillers are necessary evil. I will say that I am wrong on that point. Open world games maybe harder to make, but it just means one has to work harder. Second, I said before that I didn't care much about graphics glitch or facial animation. I take that back now after playing W3. Now I realize how important animation is, especially facial animation to tell a story in a visual medium. Long story short, I ended up being torn between the game's romance options, which is surprising since one of them has never been the the previous games. I think what sold me on Yennefer is how well her expressions are animated in scenes, that you can actually see her sadness, anger, bitchiness and disappointment on her face. Those animations are worth a thousand dialogues. Before now, I have hated on Andromeda's writing, and blamed pretty much everything I hated on what I thought were inconsistent/bad writing. Now I wonder if the animations and cut scenes had been done better, maybe the entire game would have felt different. Anyway, that's just how my thought on Andromeda has changed. I didn't have a chance to compare the two games when Andromeda first came out since I havent played W3 at that point, I felt I missed out on some very insight forum discussion. Unlike you who played TW3 on the back end, I played TW3 before MEA and TW3 really raised the bar in terms of telling a mature story, NPCs, open world, and side quest. MEA failed to compare. You are not alone, TW3 is seen by many as the measuring stick for a quality open world RPG. I also had the benefit of playing the GOTY edition of TW3, with everything patched and DLC included. I heard that game was buggy at launch as well, so it's to my benefit that I waited. I pre-ordered ME:A and played on release, last time I will do that with any game.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Aug 10, 2017 3:56:28 GMT
And the original plan was to have this game be reliant solely on procedural generation. The fact that we got as "good" a game was we did with a mere 18 months of actual work is incredible, but it doesn't excuse EA for not properly supporting the game or handing the ME franchise to rookie out of their depth developers, or the developers themselves for not reigning themselves in (and not understanding why Bioware games are so beloved. I mean, COME ON. Trying to No Man's Sky MASS EFFECT?! You HAD to know that would end badly) 18 months? Where I been? When was that data from Bioware released? Well we all know how NMS turned out... EA again wants the entrance fee then lets it die -or try to. I can't stand Geralt and therefore have never put more than 5 hours into my 3 tries of the game. Was the first game I bought for my PS4 pro. I did not make an account on forums to bitch about the game though, so I got that going for me. +++This may offend Wither 3 fanatics so be warned now+++ Likewise I can't stand Geralt either. That zombie stoic white face gets annoying quickly -watched about 30 minutes so far of dialog. Sure the other people in the game may act and show emotion correctly but Geralt is when it comes to speech delivery. Even though I don't personally see much emotion -I see NONE from him compared to any game in the Mass Effect Franchise characters of Shepard or Ryder -at least they "try".
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 10, 2017 5:26:24 GMT
That 40m is an imaginary number propagated by none other than Pewdiepie in a YouTube rant against Andromeda. Pewdiepie might have thrown the figure out there, but I can guarantee you the rumor preceded his proclamation of Andromeda's budget. Even if the $40 million budget was somehow off, there's definitely no way that Andromeda had as much money to work with as TW3 did. I can't stand Geralt and therefore have never put more than 5 hours into my 3 tries of the game. Was the first game I bought for my PS4 pro. I did not make an account on forums to bitch about the game though, so I got that going for me. +++This may offend Wither 3 fanatics so be warned now+++ Likewise I can't stand Geralt either. That zombie stoic white face gets annoying quickly -watched about 30 minutes so far of dialog. Sure the other people in the game may act and show emotion correctly but Geralt is when it comes to speech delivery. Even though I don't personally see much emotion -I see NONE from him compared to any game in the Mass Effect Franchise characters of Shepard or Ryder -at least they "try". Not to sidetrack the discussion about The Witcher lore, but Geralt is a witcher. Supposedly, after going through the Trial of Grasses, the mutations cause witcher apprentices to lose their emotions. Geralt's personality, which is actually far more dynamic than you give him credit, is supposed to represent this stereotype that witchers aren't really human, and do not exhibit human emotions. What you'll actually find is that Geralt has an incredibly dry sense of humor and is constantly pointing out the hypocrisies of others. Of course, if you've barely played TW3, let alone its two predecessors, I understand why you know next to nothing about Geralt.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 6:09:23 GMT
I don't think animation is the point, despite many memes. Animation was never a strong point for Bioware, Shepard's face was already weird on previous Mass Effects.
The real problem is the EXTREMELY shitty written characters and dialogues (which automatically lead to bad quests), along with some very poor choices on gameplay (especially on exploration)
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 6:10:50 GMT
"I don't see any emotion on Geralt"
Yeah, he's a witcher, he's supposed to be free of emotions. Geez, people are ignorant about the lore and they blame the game on it, besides the game having a lot of codex and books explaining all these things.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 10, 2017 6:39:22 GMT
I don't think animation is the point, despite many memes. Animation was never a strong point for Bioware, Shepard's face was already weird on previous Mass Effects. The real problem is the EXTREMELY shitty written characters and dialogues (which automatically lead to bad quests), along with some very poor choices on gameplay (especially on exploration) "I don't see any emotion on Geralt" Yeah, he's a witcher, he's supposed to be free of emotions. Geez, people are ignorant about the lore and they blame the game on it, besides the game having a lot of codex and books explaining all these things. One man's shitty dialogue is another man's lore.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Aug 10, 2017 6:57:48 GMT
That 40m is an imaginary number propagated by none other than Pewdiepie in a YouTube rant against Andromeda. Pewdiepie might have thrown the figure out there, but I can guarantee you the rumor preceded his proclamation of Andromeda's budget. Even if the $40 million budget was somehow off, there's definitely no way that Andromeda had as much money to work with as TW3 did. +++This may offend Wither 3 fanatics so be warned now+++ Likewise I can't stand Geralt either. That zombie stoic white face gets annoying quickly -watched about 30 minutes so far of dialog. Sure the other people in the game may act and show emotion correctly but Geralt is when it comes to speech delivery. Even though I don't personally see much emotion -I see NONE from him compared to any game in the Mass Effect Franchise characters of Shepard or Ryder -at least they "try". Not to sidetrack the discussion about The Witcher lore, but Geralt is a witcher. Supposedly, after going through the Trial of Grasses, the mutations cause witcher apprentices to lose their emotions. Geralt's personality, which is actually far more dynamic than you give him credit, is supposed to represent this stereotype that witchers aren't really human, and do not exhibit human emotions. What you'll actually find is that Geralt has an incredibly dry sense of humor and is constantly pointing out the hypocrisies of others. Of course, if you've barely played TW3, let alone its two predecessors, I understand why you know next to nothing about Geralt. Why is loosing emotions considered not to be human? Is this the sterotype to which you speak? If it is then we got a serious problem here. For I doubt anyone here has spent 20+ years just trying to understand the wide range of emotions. The worst phase for me growing up was "tears of joy" -Yes. Very early on I thought anyone crying was happy. It took about the first 10 of those years to finally begin to notice tears mean sadness... knowledge that came to me -at great hardship and cost though. Only after 10 years and by use of psychoanalyzing my family over and over after spouts of verbal hurt -till they cried after which I asked: "Why they were crying?". Only through this experimentation did I even begin to understand the sad emotions and by that fact begin to know the opposite positive emotions as well. By the way most jokes take me about 4-7 times of hearing and analyzing before I understand them or their punchline. So for me to just play or watch a character with little to no emotion being displayed on screen is now a bore. For me there is nothing there to that character emotionally to understand that I don't already know. I played the first TW and have watched video of the 2nd and 3rd. The same with humor -laughing at something comical ok -if I can understand it- but most humor I just don't get either. So if someone has as you say has dry humor -I really don't see it and get bored quick -which is probably why I simply don't care for him. Again as said before I don't see emotion very well -so when someone displays emotion such as me -it bores me -in this case Geralt. So IF it is true that Geralt has some definition to his personality then I can't see it. To me he is just as flat as I am to all others emotionally. "I don't see any emotion on Geralt" Yeah, he's a witcher, he's supposed to be free of emotions. Geez, people are ignorant about the lore and they blame the game on it, besides the game having a lot of codex and books explaining all these things. I don't think animation is the point, despite many memes. Animation was never a strong point for Bioware, Shepard's face was already weird on previous Mass Effects. The real problem is the EXTREMELY shitty written characters and dialogues (which automatically lead to bad quests), along with some very poor choices on gameplay (especially on exploration) I am not blaming the lore and nor am I being ignorant. You simply miss the point I am making. Sure the withcher series may have lore to back it up and all the rigamarow to go with it but you forget the premise of my post -which you took out of context by the way. In the case I am making the lore has no place. It based on one fact and one fact alone: Main character's display of emotion. Which is that Shepard and Ryder -who are BOTH main characters of a franchise both TRY to show emotion -no matter how buggy it may be for you. Geralt who is also the main character of a franchise simply does not hardly show emotion -if at all. Again I know there is lore for this -on both sides probably. My issue is that I can't play a game where the main character shows the same basic emotion response as myself. As to dialog don't really care one way or another. Dialog is just filler to plot and plot takes backseat till the whole story is revealed and there is still books (far off left foot SP DLC? ) in the wings so can't say a word to it till all are read.
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suikoden
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suikoden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
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Post by suikoden on Aug 10, 2017 7:17:14 GMT
That 40m is an imaginary number propagated by none other than Pewdiepie in a YouTube rant against Andromeda. Pewdiepie might have thrown the figure out there, but I can guarantee you the rumor preceded his proclamation of Andromeda's budget. Even if the $40 million budget was somehow off, there's definitely no way that Andromeda had as much money to work with as TW3 did. +++This may offend Wither 3 fanatics so be warned now+++ Likewise I can't stand Geralt either. That zombie stoic white face gets annoying quickly -watched about 30 minutes so far of dialog. Sure the other people in the game may act and show emotion correctly but Geralt is when it comes to speech delivery. Even though I don't personally see much emotion -I see NONE from him compared to any game in the Mass Effect Franchise characters of Shepard or Ryder -at least they "try". Not to sidetrack the discussion about The Witcher lore, but Geralt is a witcher. Supposedly, after going through the Trial of Grasses, the mutations cause witcher apprentices to lose their emotions. Geralt's personality, which is actually far more dynamic than you give him credit, is supposed to represent this stereotype that witchers aren't really human, and do not exhibit human emotions. What you'll actually find is that Geralt has an incredibly dry sense of humor and is constantly pointing out the hypocrisies of others. Of course, if you've barely played TW3, let alone its two predecessors, I understand why you know next to nothing about Geralt. That's where the 40m originated. You won't find an original source for it anywhere on the internet.
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
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Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 10, 2017 7:51:37 GMT
Why is loosing emotions considered not to be human? Is this the sterotype to which you speak? If it is then we got a serious problem here. For I doubt anyone here has spent 20+ years just trying to understand the wide range of emotions. The worst phase for me growing up was "tears of joy" -Yes. Very early on I thought anyone crying was happy. It took about the first 10 of those years to finally begin to notice tears mean sadness... knowledge that came to me -at great hardship and cost though. Only after 10 years and by use of psychoanalyzing my family over and over after spouts of verbal hurt -till they cried after which I asked: "Why they were crying?". Only through this experimentation did I even begin to understand the sad emotions and by that fact begin to know the opposite positive emotions as well. By the way most jokes take me about 4-7 times of hearing and analyzing before I understand them or their punchline. So for me to just play or watch a character with little to no emotion being displayed on screen is now a bore. For me there is nothing there to that character emotionally to understand that I don't already know. I played the first TW and have watched video of the 2nd and 3rd. The same with humor -laughing at something comical ok -if I can understand it- but most humor I just don't get either. So if someone has as you say has dry humor -I really don't see it and get bored quick -which is probably why I simply don't care for him. Again as said before I don't see emotion very well -so when someone displays emotion such as me -it bores me -in this case Geralt. So IF it is true that Geralt has some definition to his personality then I can't see it. To me he is just as flat as I am to all others emotionally. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Whether you want to think Geralt's as interesting as a wooden plank or otherwise, the only opinion that should matter to you in the end is yours. Regardless, I think it is worthy to point out the fact that Geralt is despised and ridiculed by most humans. He is treated as a "freak," in most cases, and many will simply avoid him out of fear or hatred. Geralt's experiences are supposed to highlight how truly disgusting and ugly humans can be, and Geralt's "coldness," at times, could be interpreted as apathy and disgust for his fellow man. Some will like Geralt. Others won't care for him. Personally, he resonated with me. One of the ironies of the trilogy is Geralt is probably one of the most human characters in the games. He sees the ugliness of reality, but he doesn't let it define him and he doesn't let it compromise his moral compass either.
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jackdaniel
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Mar 22, 2017 15:51:47 GMT
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Post by jackdaniel on Aug 10, 2017 9:13:40 GMT
Pewdiepie might have thrown the figure out there, but I can guarantee you the rumor preceded his proclamation of Andromeda's budget. Even if the $40 million budget was somehow off, there's definitely no way that Andromeda had as much money to work with as TW3 did. Not to sidetrack the discussion about The Witcher lore, but Geralt is a witcher. Supposedly, after going through the Trial of Grasses, the mutations cause witcher apprentices to lose their emotions. Geralt's personality, which is actually far more dynamic than you give him credit, is supposed to represent this stereotype that witchers aren't really human, and do not exhibit human emotions. What you'll actually find is that Geralt has an incredibly dry sense of humor and is constantly pointing out the hypocrisies of others. Of course, if you've barely played TW3, let alone its two predecessors, I understand why you know next to nothing about Geralt. Why is loosing emotions considered not to be human? Is this the sterotype to which you speak? If it is then we got a serious problem here. For I doubt anyone here has spent 20+ years just trying to understand the wide range of emotions. The worst phase for me growing up was "tears of joy" -Yes. Very early on I thought anyone crying was happy. It took about the first 10 of those years to finally begin to notice tears mean sadness... knowledge that came to me -at great hardship and cost though. Only after 10 years and by use of psychoanalyzing my family over and over after spouts of verbal hurt -till they cried after which I asked: "Why they were crying?". Only through this experimentation did I even begin to understand the sad emotions and by that fact begin to know the opposite positive emotions as well. By the way most jokes take me about 4-7 times of hearing and analyzing before I understand them or their punchline. So for me to just play or watch a character with little to no emotion being displayed on screen is now a bore. For me there is nothing there to that character emotionally to understand that I don't already know. I played the first TW and have watched video of the 2nd and 3rd. The same with humor -laughing at something comical ok -if I can understand it- but most humor I just don't get either. So if someone has as you say has dry humor -I really don't see it and get bored quick -which is probably why I simply don't care for him. Again as said before I don't see emotion very well -so when someone displays emotion such as me -it bores me -in this case Geralt. So IF it is true that Geralt has some definition to his personality then I can't see it. To me he is just as flat as I am to all others emotionally. "I don't see any emotion on Geralt" Yeah, he's a witcher, he's supposed to be free of emotions. Geez, people are ignorant about the lore and they blame the game on it, besides the game having a lot of codex and books explaining all these things. I don't think animation is the point, despite many memes. Animation was never a strong point for Bioware, Shepard's face was already weird on previous Mass Effects. The real problem is the EXTREMELY shitty written characters and dialogues (which automatically lead to bad quests), along with some very poor choices on gameplay (especially on exploration) I am not blaming the lore and nor am I being ignorant. You simply miss the point I am making. Sure the withcher series may have lore to back it up and all the rigamarow to go with it but you forget the premise of my post -which you took out of context by the way. In the case I am making the lore has no place. It based on one fact and one fact alone: Main character's display of emotion. Which is that Shepard and Ryder -who are BOTH main characters of a franchise both TRY to show emotion -no matter how buggy it may be for you. Geralt who is also the main character of a franchise simply does not hardly show emotion -if at all. Again I know there is lore for this -on both sides probably. My issue is that I can't play a game where the main character shows the same basic emotion response as myself. As to dialog don't really care one way or another. Dialog is just filler to plot and plot takes backseat till the whole story is revealed and there is still books (far off left foot SP DLC? ) in the wings so can't say a word to it till all are read. whether or not Geralt is a convincing or interesting isn't the point. Badly written character can still be animated well and vice versa. And cutscenes quality in TW3 is a few notch better, enough to make even the random peseants from contract quests sympathetic enough for me care about the quest I am doing.
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bizantura
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 407 Likes: 411
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bizantura
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Aug 22, 2016 17:45:56 GMT
August 2016
bizantura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by bizantura on Aug 10, 2017 9:35:29 GMT
A dot of the hat for even sharing your experience and daring to express it. Liking both franchises is not popular on this forum.
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