phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Aug 10, 2017 15:41:16 GMT
It is 100% consistent. They already use a male term when it comes to parenting and gender has no meaning for them. If gender has no meaning then it is weird that they are all referred to as female. They only have gendered terms because of language translation. It make sense that it might annoy some Asari that alien races automatically think they are female, when they are monogendered. And the conversation happens between two Ambassadors, two natural people to be discussing cultural differences and asking how best to be polite so that no one is accidently offended. Anyone who is annoyed by this sensible conversation, is just looking for somthing to be annoyed by. After 1600 years of contact with the turians -- who seem to be human-congruent in such matters -- finding such concepts in asari language is about as shocking as finding French words in English. I'm not saying they don't understand the concept of gender and their language could adapt to add those terms to it. I actually think that adds to the case of Asari just picking a pronoun to go with rather than having somthing automatically assigned. And honestly if I were an Angara encountering a monogendered species for the first time, what pronouns to use would be a question I'd ask. Otherwise I could accidently piss off this new species I'm hoping to build an alliance with. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 15:42:55 GMT
It is 100% consistent. They already use a male term when it comes to parenting and gender has no meaning for them. If gender has no meaning then it is weird that they are all referred to as female. They only have gendered terms because of language translation. It make sense that it might annoy some Asari that alien races automatically think they are female, when they are monogendered. And the conversation happens between two Ambassadors, two natural people to be discussing cultural differences and asking how best to be polite so that no one is accidently offended. Anyone who is annoyed by this sensible conversation, is just looking for somthing to be annoyed by. "Monogendered" or not. They are female. That's Bioware's botch that they don't look androgynous like I've been suggesting from the start. Then they'd be monogendered. But as they are, they have tits, a snatch, and female voices with slender bodies. FEMALE. The only race who can even claim that based on looks are Salarians cause their males and females can't be discerned without hearing them. Sex and gender are not the same thing. It was really unfortunate, imho, that gender was ever used to refer to binary biological sex, because it's diluted the meaning of the word and made it much more difficult to discuss and understand gender-related concepts. |
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 15:53:11 GMT
So far so good, so at worst, there were only a couple of instances of "SJW influence". Yeah I remember Hanley Abrams, and thought, yeah this is going to give anti-SJW's some ammunition. Agree with basically everyone on his thread. The whole " ERMAHGERD, SJW RERNING ER GERMES." (Translation: "OHMYGOD SJW'S ARE RUINING OUR GAMES.") is probably even more annoying than the actual SJw's.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 15:56:01 GMT
Bioware games usually display a mirror of our society. Minus open bigotry. Which is where the anti SJW crowd comes in. That's all there is to it. Bigotry with nostalgic feelings over white males and their supposed demise. I've never seen a woman taking the SJW train, that's for sure.. I don't know....there seems to be quite a bit of open bigotry in Dragon Age. Just look at how Elves and Qunari -and their respective beliefs- are treated. I agree with you on the rest though.  I always felt that bigotry was a theme of some Bioware games, Dragon age, haven't played it myself, but just like you said, or, of course, Mass Effect. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 15:57:36 GMT
So far so good, so at worst, there were only a couple of instances of "SJW influence". Yeah I remember Hanley Abrams, and thought, yeah this is going to give anti-SJW's some ammunition. Agree with basically everyone on his thread. The whole " ERMAHGERD, SJW RERNING ER GERMES." (Translation: OHMYGOD SJW'S ARE RUINING OUR GAMES.") is probably even more annoying than the actual SJw's. To be fair, there are a few big-name instigators trying like hell to push an agenda that is quite "SJW" by definition. It really isn't all that hard for gamers to look at those types and get worried and trigger happy to shoot the proverbial SJW bullet. |
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Post by kino on Aug 10, 2017 16:01:37 GMT
Interesting subject. It'll be interesting to see how the poll goes vs the commentary.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 16:08:27 GMT
Interesting subject. It'll be interesting to see how the poll goes vs the commentary. It's designed to be both. The way I see it, anti-SJW's really seem to look for any reason to say, "SJW influence." And get triggered. It's cherry picking. That's why this thread was created. So far there's very little that actually indicates SJW influence. I remember watching a YouTube video that talked about whether or not Bioware made "intentionally ugly females" and he noted that the only news source, if you want to call it that, was The Scottish Sun, a Scottish tabloid newspaper, and that he felt there was not enough evidence to prove "SJW's made female characters ugly." Though he did later admit that he hated Manveer Heir. |
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 16:10:28 GMT
"Monogendered" or not. They are female. That's Bioware's botch that they don't look androgynous like I've been suggesting from the start. Then they'd be monogendered. But as they are, they have tits, a snatch, and female voices with slender bodies. FEMALE. The only race who can even claim that based on looks are Salarians cause their males and females can't be discerned without hearing them. Sex and gender are not the same thing. It was really unfortunate, imho, that gender was ever used to refer to binary biological sex, because it's diluted the meaning of the word and made it much more difficult to discuss and understand gender-related concepts. I think it would've been better if Bioware described the Asari an all-female species because you do get stuff like that on Earth, I.E the new Mexico whiptail lizards. |
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Post by natetrace on Aug 10, 2017 16:10:30 GMT
Every time I see the SJW argument or that Millenials ruined it with their writing or that the plot is some teenage melodrama, I know that person has no value in their opinion. I'm not even an SJW, I hate when people get on their twitter soap box and preach about who has it worse. I don't know, guess I'm just stuck in the middle. As always.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 10, 2017 16:10:40 GMT
Never attribute to malice SJWs what can be attributed to stupidity.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Aug 10, 2017 16:16:26 GMT
Interesting subject. It'll be interesting to see how the poll goes vs the commentary. It's designed to be both. The way I see it, anti-SJW's really seem to look for any reason to say, "SJW influence." And get triggered. It's cherry picking. That's why this thread was created. So far there's very little that actually indicates SJW influence. I remember watching a YouTube video that talked about whether or not Bioware made "intentionally ugly females" and he noted that the only news source, if you want to call it that, was The Scottish Sun, a Scottish tabloid newspaper, and that he felt there was not enough evidence to prove "SJW's made female characters ugly." Though he did later admit that he hated Manveer Heir. Very true. It's one of those subjects that makes me shake my head. ME:A seems like a typical BW game when it comes to inclusion. |
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 10, 2017 16:17:41 GMT
After 1600 years of contact with the turians -- who seem to be human-congruent in such matters -- finding such concepts in asari language is about as shocking as finding French words in English. I'm not saying they don't understand the concept of gender and their language could adapt to add those terms to it. I actually think that adds to the case of Asari just picking a pronoun to go with rather than having somthing automatically assigned. And honestly if I were an Angara encountering a monogendered species for the first time, what pronouns to use would be a question I'd ask. Otherwise I could accidently piss off this new species I'm hoping to build an alliance with. I should have been clearer that I was agreeing with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:20:02 GMT
Asari pronouns and Hainly Abrams have been mentioned as purported SJW influences.
There are a couple of other places where people have accused BioWare of submitting to SJW influence as well:
1) Default Sara Ryder's appearance. There's a claim that BioWare intentionally "uglified" the character, usually accompanied by a belief that the in-game rendition of default Sara was intentionally downgraded relative to the face model (Jayde Rossi) whereas default Scott looks just like his face model (Steven Brewis).
2) Female characters in general were made less attractive to appease SJWs.
Personally, I think those allegations are nonsense.
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phantomrachie
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by phantomrachie on Aug 10, 2017 16:22:10 GMT
I'm not saying they don't understand the concept of gender and their language could adapt to add those terms to it. I actually think that adds to the case of Asari just picking a pronoun to go with rather than having somthing automatically assigned. And honestly if I were an Angara encountering a monogendered species for the first time, what pronouns to use would be a question I'd ask. Otherwise I could accidently piss off this new species I'm hoping to build an alliance with. I should have been clearer that I was agreeing with you.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:23:01 GMT
Sex and gender are not the same thing. It was really unfortunate, imho, that gender was ever used to refer to binary biological sex, because it's diluted the meaning of the word and made it much more difficult to discuss and understand gender-related concepts. I think it would've been better if Bioware described the Asari an all-female species because you do get stuff like that on Earth, I.E the new Mexico whiptail lizards. Agreed. I feel that "monogendered" was an unfortunate choice of terms and has led to some misunderstandings. |
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Post by warrior on Aug 10, 2017 16:41:27 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda. The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games. Who said that? |
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 16:42:54 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda. The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games. Who said that? Can't remember his name, it was on a thread that was discussing SJW as well, had over 20 pages. He said that about page 18 or 19 if I had to guess. |
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Post by warrior on Aug 10, 2017 16:44:30 GMT
For starters, it would help if people could actually come to a consensus on what an "SJW" is, since as far as I can see it's just code for people being upset that women and minorities being treated well. An SJW in this case would be someone who claims to fight for stuff like equal rights amongst ethnicities, genders, sexual identities, etc. But they only do it for money, sex, personal reputation. Often they "fight" in a very hamfisted and or hypocritical fashion. I don't think anyone really fights for social justice to get laid except maybe some male faux-feminists. Maybe reputation in that some fear looking like a bad person in their peer groups. |
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 16:44:40 GMT
Oh yeah, there's also this allegation that "all Andromeda women are ugly", which is really one of the dumbest arguments.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 16:45:06 GMT
Every time I see the SJW argument or that Millenials ruined it with their writing or that the plot is some teenage melodrama, I know that person has no value in their opinion. I'm not even an SJW, I hate when people get on their twitter soap box and preach about who has it worse. I don't know, guess I'm just stuck in the middle. As always. I dislike SJW's as well, and by SJW, I mean the guys that only use stuff like equal rights to get rich/laid and do so in a hypocritical fashion. The behavior by some anti-SJW's is flat out embarrassing. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 10, 2017 16:46:37 GMT
[x] Delusional Rage  Is it wrong to make a request and say if things get super ugly, that either you or some other mod temporarily closes this thread? We keep an eye, seems fairly good natured for now. Hit that 'report' if it turns...  |
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 16:48:51 GMT
Asari pronouns and Hainly Abrams have been mentioned as purported SJW influences. There are a couple of other places where people have accused BioWare of submitting to SJW influence as well: 1) Default Sara Ryder's appearance. There's a claim that BioWare intentionally "uglified" the character, usually accompanied by a belief that the in-game rendition of default Sara was intentionally downgraded relative to the face model (Jayde Rossi) whereas default Scott looks just like his face model (Steven Brewis). 2) Female characters in general were made less attractive to appease SJWs. Personally, I think those allegations are nonsense. Generally speaking the females looked fine (Peebee is hot Imho), in terms of some females or default Sara Ryder looking ugly, I attribute that more to incompetence with the frostbite engine, then again it's not exactly a user friendly engine iirc. |
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Post by warrior on Aug 10, 2017 16:52:02 GMT
When we get to the point of when conservative establishment career politician is accused of being an SJW by many people, I'm pretty sure we got very far from point when that term had any meaning. So I'd go with the rage and idiocy. Wait, who is that? |
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 10, 2017 16:54:36 GMT
When we get to the point of when conservative establishment career politician is accused of being an SJW by many people, I'm pretty sure we got very far from point when that term had any meaning. So I'd go with the rage and idiocy. Wait, who is that? US Senator John McCain. Yeah, when you get to the point of accusing a conservative party establishment politician who has history of being a political partisan to be a radical left wing reactionary? You kind of get to realization people lost the plot completely and term lost all real meaning. |
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 16:58:46 GMT
An SJW in this case would be someone who claims to fight for stuff like equal rights amongst ethnicities, genders, sexual identities, etc. But they only do it for money, sex, personal reputation. Often they "fight" in a very hamfisted and or hypocritical fashion. I don't think anyone really fights for social justice to get laid except maybe some male faux-feminists. Maybe reputation in that some fear looking like a bad person in their peer groups. This was the modern definition that people tend to use to describe Social Justice Warriors. |
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Be seeing you.
