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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:16:54 GMT
One thing that perplexed me about some of the videos criticizing ME:A was how people were claiming that SJW's ruined the game. I'm not focusing on other criticisms, like facial animations or the story, which I felt was good sometimes and uninspired at other times, but more, I want to focus on what is causing people to claim that SJW's had influenced the game in a negative way. What were some instances in the game or the game' s development that could be considered "SJW-like", and what were some other instances suggest otherwise. This way we can avoid cherry picking. Final note: Let's all try to be civil about things, if I or anyone else happens to be sounding uncivil, feel perfectly free to call me/them out.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 10, 2017 6:20:38 GMT
It's a dumb accusation then and it's even dumber just seeing the ridiculous lengths people went to declare it that.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 6:24:19 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda.
The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:28:08 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda. The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games. I agree, I feel that Anti-SJW's are about as annoying if not more-so than the boogiemen they despise. Add to the fact that they engage in some of the practices that they accuse SJW's of doing, and I find anti-SJW's kinda despicable. But what evidence, or lack thereof, supports their arguments?
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 10, 2017 6:29:08 GMT
For starters, it would help if people could actually come to a consensus on what an "SJW" is, since as far as I can see it's just code for people being upset that women and minorities being treated well.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:31:51 GMT
For starters, it would help if people could actually come to a consensus on what an "SJW" is, since as far as I can see it's just code for people being upset that women and minorities being treated well. An SJW in this case would be someone who claims to fight for stuff like equal rights amongst ethnicities, genders, sexual identities, etc. But they only do it for money, sex, personal reputation. Often they "fight" in a very hamfisted and or hypocritical fashion.
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Post by Fredward on Aug 10, 2017 6:34:13 GMT
It's rage. The real, tangible issues can't be connected to SJWism except via the most impressive mental acrobatics. When you allow yourself to be defined by your opposition to something you don't have any choice but to interpret every dislike through that lens.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 6:34:24 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda. The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games. I agree, I feel that Anti-SJW's are about as annoying if not more-so than the boogiemen they despise. Add to the fact that they engage in some of the practices that they accuse SJW's of doing, and I find anti-SJW's kinda despicable. But what evidence, or lack thereof, supports their arguments? Their argument basically is: Bioware wants to "force" women, LGBT, etc into the story, and that results in bad writing. LOL, it just doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 10, 2017 6:35:02 GMT
Man, these people are just dumb, and I really hate Mass Effect Andromeda. The problem is they don't want to give up. They want games to be only for straight white males. Seriously, one of the guys in the forum these days said "Andromeda had too many black people". Pure bullshit, since Bioware always was """""""""""SJW""""""""""" and created fantastic games. I agree, I feel that Anti-SJW's are about as annoying if not more-so than the boogiemen they despise. Add to the fact that they engage in some of the practices that they accuse SJW's of doing, and I find anti-SJW's kinda despicable. But what evidence, or lack thereof, supports their arguments? Like a lot of things being posted at 100% truthful fact on the internet anymore it seems to be "because I feel this way it must be the truth" seems to be a popular way to justify one's opinion. Because people will find an echo chamber and those people will agree with anything because they all feel the same and it just gains momentum. What I find ironic is that these same people won't consider Knights of the Old Republic "SJW material" because it contains a lesbian relationship and not something they disagree with. Frankly BioWare has been inclusive for years even prior to EA and the what these people are upset about. I once read an article that BioWare was thinking of including more inclusive content earlier, but society as a whole just wasn't as accepting of it at that time and they passed and slowly introduced it over the years.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 10, 2017 6:37:31 GMT
At best, these individuals are trolls laying bait. At worst, they are ignorant and prejudice. Does it really matter why these individuals make these ridiculous accusations? BioWare is hardly the only studio to be accused of pandering to "SJWs," yet it tends to get the most criticism, due to the diversity of romance options in BioWare games.
Ever since the negative reception that DA2 received, there has been a long, established base of gamers/trolls who believe it's "cool" to hate on BioWare. That came to a head with Andromeda, and the memes and negative publicity on the internet really undermined the game's chances at success.
In reality, those who tend to do well oftentimes receive the most criticism. Whether it's Rockstar Games, Bethesda Game Studios, CD Projekt Red, etc., there is always that established group of contrarians that must explain to you why the studio is terrible and why their games are terrible.
I personally wouldn't take their remarks seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 6:37:32 GMT
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:39:38 GMT
You sir. Have won BSN boards.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:41:02 GMT
At best, these individuals are trolls laying bait. At worst, they are ignorant and prejudice. Does it really matter why these individuals make these ridiculous accusations? BioWare is hardly the only studio to be accused of pandering to "SJWs," yet it tends to get the most criticism, due to the diversity of romance options in BioWare games. Ever since the negative reception that DA2 received, there has been a long, established base of gamers/trolls who believe it's "cool" to hate on BioWare. That came to a head with Andromeda, and the memes and negative publicity on the internet really undermined the game's chances at success. In reality, those who tend to do well oftentimes receive the most criticism. Whether it's Rockstar Games, Bethesda Game Studios, CD Projekt Red, etc., there is always that established group of contrarians that must explain to you why the studio is terrible and why their games are terrible. I personally wouldn't take their remarks seriously. You forgot hypocritical with the "at worst" bit.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 10, 2017 6:45:08 GMT
You forgot hypocritical with the "at worst" bit. Most people, in some capacity, are hypocrites. That being said, if you are ignorant and prejudice, it's generally assumed you are also a hypocrite, due to your close-minded perception of the world.
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 10, 2017 6:47:52 GMT
When we get to the point of when conservative establishment career politician is accused of being an SJW by many people, I'm pretty sure we got very far from point when that term had any meaning.
So I'd go with the rage and idiocy.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 6:53:25 GMT
You forgot hypocritical with the "at worst" bit. Most people, in some capacity, are hypocrites. That being said, if you are ignorant and prejudice, it's generally assumed you are also a hypocrite, due to your close-minded perception of the world. Agreed. Though some people are more hypocritical than others, and I prefer to avoid hypocrisy like the plague. Even then, I'm not immune to it.
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 10, 2017 7:17:00 GMT
Some people are just narrow minded idiots.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 10, 2017 7:23:31 GMT
[x] Delusional Rage
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Post by antmarch456 on Aug 10, 2017 7:41:52 GMT
Gonna bet my Peebee pop-vinyl and say this thread is gonna turn ugly by page 4.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 10, 2017 7:45:00 GMT
I really do not know what is worse and more overblown. ACTUAL SJWs or people who look under every rock of a character design they don't like, or some sort of weird political stance, as SJW.
Probably the closest thing in the game which could point to as direct SJW influence would be the Asari gender conversation in the Nexus archives area. Which I think is internally consistent with what the Asari are...but there ya go.
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Post by phantomrachie on Aug 10, 2017 8:22:33 GMT
I really do not know what is worse and more overblown. ACTUAL SJWs or people who look under every rock of a character design they don't like, or some sort of weird political stance, as SJW. Probably the closest thing in the game which could point to as direct SJW influence would be the Asari gender conversation in the Nexus archives area. Which I think is internally consistent with what the Asari are...but there ya go. I genuinely don't understand why people are mad about that. Liara & the codex say in ME1 that gender has no real meaning for Asari so the fact that they were always referred with female pronouns was the weird part. The gender conversion in the archives was just fixing that. Many languages have gendered pronouns but I'm willing to bet the Asari one doesn't so when their neutral pronoun gets translated into a gendered one some Asari don't like when it is automatically the female one, makes sense to me.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 10, 2017 8:35:21 GMT
I really do not know what is worse and more overblown. ACTUAL SJWs or people who look under every rock of a character design they don't like, or some sort of weird political stance, as SJW. Probably the closest thing in the game which could point to as direct SJW influence would be the Asari gender conversation in the Nexus archives area. Which I think is internally consistent with what the Asari are...but there ya go. Plus they're ambassadors. Making sure the new relationship between the angara and the Milky Way races goes as smoothly as possible is what they're being paid for.
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Post by cribbian on Aug 10, 2017 9:13:05 GMT
I really do not know what is worse and more overblown. ACTUAL SJWs or people who look under every rock of a character design they don't like, or some sort of weird political stance, as SJW.
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Post by jackdaniel on Aug 10, 2017 9:28:45 GMT
People who are out looking for perceived insult, slight and rage will find them every where they look, and this applies to both side of the issue. This is unfortunate for BioWare since sex and romance in game is kinda of their thing, and sex and gender politics happens to be the focus now. My personal feeling is that going around making sure every group is pandered to is bad practice. It opens you up for even more criticism cuz now it's not about your game world any more, it becomes why you pandered to this group but not that group, or whether your 'pandering' is genuine or cheap gimmick.
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Post by guanxi on Aug 10, 2017 9:36:38 GMT
I get that BioWare are on their progressive high horse about promoting LGBTQ representation in games and some people want to knock them down a peg because gaming has always been their boys club escape from reality and they don't want (BioWare pandering to) girls and gays diluting their macho sci-fi fantasy clubhouse.
You could perhaps make a legitimate argument that dialogue with LGBTQ characters is not exactly subtle or naturalistic and if you dislike a LGBTQ character or take issue with the cut of their gib they seem to be off limits and protected by the dialogue system so as to not offend certain minority groups.
My problem with MEA and BioWare in general it's that they are trying to tell a supposedly mature adult story in a very safe PC PG-13 way. They don't have the balls to do anything remotely controversial anymore and if they did and no group was off limits like a Rockstar Game or HBO TV show this SJW labelling BS would start to recede.
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