inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 9:42:31 GMT
The "kill them all and let the Maker sort them out" goes far beyond pragmatism. It's paranoid. The Warden most likely to subscribe to this idea is one who adheres to an extreme interpretation of Andrastianism. To me, that would likely be a human noble. I don't see a mage of any kind doing it. A loyal Circle Mage would trust Irving and Wynne. A libertarian mage would be sympathetic to the blood mages and would certainly not want to kill them all. For dwarves, it's pretty open since they have little contact with mages. It might depend on whether the dwarf Warden is friendly or hostile to Morrigan, the first mage they've gotten to know. I respectfully disagree with this interpretation. Also, with that no mage of any kind would do it.
I think, yes. Any paranoid person able to do it, not only human noble.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1620
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 7:38:43 GMT
On my current play through with my castless dwarf Faren, I might actually annul the Circle. He just got done resolving the Redcliff quest and is very worried about the implications of allowing abominations to exist. He had seen that one child abomination had the power to create an undead army and had the aspirations to conquer the world. Also, this child looked normal. So he is certainly has no desire to allow any potential abominations out of the Circle and has no idea how to tell if someone is an abomination, since they can look like normal people.
edit: He is fascinated by magic a and he has a good relationship with Morrigan, but that still doesn't erase the potential danger.
|
|
inherit
861
0
Nov 14, 2019 14:57:04 GMT
2,489
deadlydwarf
1,321
August 2016
deadlydwarf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 23, 2016 8:30:22 GMT
On my current play through with my castless dwarf Faren, I might actually annul the Circle. He just got done resolving the Redcliff quest and is very worried about the implications of allowing abominations to exist. He had seen that one child abomination had the power to create an undead army and had the aspirations to conquer the world. Also, this child looked normal. So he is certainly has no desire to allow any potential abominations out of the Circle and has no idea how to tell if someone is an abomination, since they can look like normal people. edit: He is fascinated by magic a and he has a good relationship with Morrigan, but that still doesn't erase the potential danger. I've always felt that if you have a PC who's strongly influenced by Morrigan, you could have a good "Bad Warden" PT. Of course, with respect to the Circle, Morrigan wants to annihilate the Circle because she hates Circle mages, not because she fears everyone is an abomination. OTOH, I believe if you have Alistair with you, you have a former Templar who thinks killing everyone in the Tower is going too far. Definitely one of the better quandaries presented in the game!
|
|
inherit
1836
0
221
doflamingodonquijote
440
Oct 22, 2016 22:16:46 GMT
October 2016
doflamingodonquijote
|
Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 23, 2016 18:16:53 GMT
The Connor case was vastly different and peculiar as he was a case of a mage who decided willingly to join a spirit of desire,which means he became an abomination without any physical mutation,that is not the case for most mages since they are possessed by force,so it is quite easy to identify an abomination also Templars are able to perceive a demon is what Ser Otto said in the alienage,i don't know how they do that but they can do that.
|
|
mike3207
N2
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 184 Likes: 132
inherit
2194
0
132
mike3207
184
Nov 26, 2016 18:28:24 GMT
November 2016
mike3207
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by mike3207 on Nov 28, 2016 2:02:02 GMT
It'd have to be a dwarf. It wouldn't affect them as much, not having a connection to the Fade, the way the other races do.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Nov 29, 2016 18:09:23 GMT
And nw seriously: any warden can choose the Annulment, with similar background as for example Meredith have. Or simply scared, when seen the situation. The warden does not necessarily fearless. S/He also accidental hero. But then Wynne explains everything with 3 kids standing right there. There is no way to not get that knowledge because Wynne has blocked the way. Why would the presence of children change one thing or another? The circle is infested, the remaining mages are still potentially a threat.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Nov 29, 2016 18:13:55 GMT
But then Wynne explains everything with 3 kids standing right there. There is no way to not get that knowledge because Wynne has blocked the way. Why would the presence of children change one thing or another? The circle is infested, the remaining mages are still potentially a threat. Exactly this is, what would say a paranoid Warden.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Nov 29, 2016 18:15:31 GMT
Why would the presence of children change one thing or another? The circle is infested, the remaining mages are still potentially a threat. Exactly this is, what would say a paranoid Warden. What? Anyway beyond that: aren't you a Ander's apologist if I recall correctly? I doubt we would agree on this.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Nov 29, 2016 18:24:57 GMT
Exactly this is, what would say a paranoid Warden. What? Anyway beyond that: aren't you a Ander's apologist if I recall correctly? I doubt we would agree on this. Haha, yes, I'm. But Fenris and Anders can agree sometimes... Now seriously: this topic about, what kind of Warden able to annul the Circle. As I see, a paranoid kind. And a paranoid Warden probably would treat all mages as infected. (And all templars too. A paranoid Warden simply would blow up the whole Tower. No one can be free from an infection.)
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Nov 29, 2016 18:29:52 GMT
What? Anyway beyond that: aren't you a Ander's apologist if I recall correctly? I doubt we would agree on this. Haha, yes, I'm. But Fenris and Anders can agree sometimes... Now seriously: this topic about, what kind of Warden able to annul the Circle. As I see, a paranoid kind. And a paranoid Warden probably would treat all mages as infected. (And all templars too. A paranoid Warden simply would blow up the whole Tower. No one can be free from an infection.) Well paranoia I guess can be one reason, but why not simple alacrity? Couldn't an argument be made that the simple and fastest path to getting what you want is simply to do as you were told? Its a straight line to Templar army after all.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Nov 29, 2016 18:47:26 GMT
Well paranoia I guess can be one reason, but why not simple alacrity? Couldn't an argument be made that the simple and fastest path to getting what you want is simply to do as you were told? Its a straight line to Templar army after all. It was only one answer to this question. A paranoid warden (no matter his/her race and religion) able to annul Circle. The zealotry is the another one. In this case the answer is a faithful (or rather bigoted) Andrastian Warden, probably Cousland but ofc not excluded Tabris, Amell and Surana, a self-loating mage, who believe, that the magic is a curse, and s/he is cursed – you can see that kind in the Circle's chantry, if play as Surana/Amell (Vivienne similar kind in the Inquisition). A Templar army, I think, not enough reason for the Annul. The mages are useful as well. The annulment is a very cruel decision. Not all people able to do it. A cruel/psychopath Warden able to hit. The origin no matter. What matters is the efficiency and/or the enjoyment. But the templars not more efficient, than the mages.
|
|
Anders Was Right
N1
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 21 Likes: 26
inherit
1872
0
Oct 23, 2017 22:05:05 GMT
26
Anders Was Right
21
Oct 27, 2016 23:55:09 GMT
October 2016
anderswasright
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Anders Was Right on Dec 3, 2016 8:38:28 GMT
It took me the Karma's Origins mod because you can only recruit Cullen if you do this. Although Irving still didn't die. I didn't even know he can. (I'll try that with my Evil Aeducan.) I made a Loyalist mage who thinks she's perfect and the rules should apply to everyone else. Cullen's personal quests, especially the second one with the dragons, were totally worth a Wynne-less run.
|
|
inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2016 10:59:18 GMT
As to the Dalish, they certainly aren't as suspicious of mages as humans are, but a Dalish rogue or warrior isn't going to be as knowledgeable as his/her keeper. I would say, more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to mages. While I agree that the keeper and the first know the most about the darker sides of magic, all Dalish know about the dangers of demons and abominations. Merrill explains that in DA2 in detail, when asked about templars (I think - but it may pop up in a banter with another companion, I'm not sure anymore). All clan members have to be ready to bring down a possessed mage - especially if it's the keeper, so they have to know about that stuff.
|
|
inherit
861
0
Nov 14, 2019 14:57:04 GMT
2,489
deadlydwarf
1,321
August 2016
deadlydwarf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by deadlydwarf on Dec 11, 2016 14:34:28 GMT
As to the Dalish, they certainly aren't as suspicious of mages as humans are, but a Dalish rogue or warrior isn't going to be as knowledgeable as his/her keeper. I would say, more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to mages. While I agree that the keeper and the first know the most about the darker sides of magic, all Dalish know about the dangers of demons and abominations. Merrill explains that in DA2 in detail, when asked about templars (I think - but it may pop up in a banter with another companion, I'm not sure anymore). All clan members have to be ready to bring down a possessed mage - especially if it's the keeper, so they have to know about that stuff. I don't remember that as banter, but I do remember how quick Merrill's clan was to turn on her over her efforts to restore the eluvian over blood magic. Merrill believed Marethari had turned them against her. (And then Marethari makes a deal with the same demon getting herself possessed and ultimately killed?) Now do the Dalish try to ban blood magic as the humans do? Or is that something more clan specific? I like your icon. DAI PC? Kind of Merrill-ish.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 11, 2016 14:57:16 GMT
While I agree that the keeper and the first know the most about the darker sides of magic, all Dalish know about the dangers of demons and abominations. Merrill explains that in DA2 in detail, when asked about templars (I think - but it may pop up in a banter with another companion, I'm not sure anymore). All clan members have to be ready to bring down a possessed mage - especially if it's the keeper, so they have to know about that stuff. I don't remember that as banter, but I do remember how quick Merrill's clan was to turn on her over her efforts to restore the eluvian over blood magic. Merrill believed Marethari had turned them against her. (And then Marethari makes a deal with the same demon getting herself possessed and ultimately killed?) Now do the Dalish try to ban blood magic as the humans do? Or is that something more clan specific? I like your icon. DAI PC? Kind of Merrill-ish. Yes, the clans are different. And Merrill asked for help a demon, I think, this not good also in the dalish view point (Merrill know wrong: the spirits and demons are different, perhaps not that way, as Anders told, but some kind similar: as Solas said, when you on his personal quest.). And: Marethari (and Merrill too) saw, what happened with Tamlen. This Mirror was cursed. As I see, the keeper (and the clan) feared from this curse, not necessarily from the blood magic. (As I see.)
|
|
inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2016 14:58:14 GMT
While I agree that the keeper and the first know the most about the darker sides of magic, all Dalish know about the dangers of demons and abominations. Merrill explains that in DA2 in detail, when asked about templars (I think - but it may pop up in a banter with another companion, I'm not sure anymore). All clan members have to be ready to bring down a possessed mage - especially if it's the keeper, so they have to know about that stuff. I don't remember that as banter, but I do remember how quick Merrill's clan was to turn on her over her efforts to restore the eluvian over blood magic. Merrill believed Marethari had turned them against her. (And then Marethari makes a deal with the same demon getting herself possessed and ultimately killed?) Now do the Dalish try to ban blood magic as the humans do? Or is that something more clan specific? I like your icon. DAI PC? Kind of Merrill-ish. Thank you - yep it's my elven mage Riya in DAI and on PC (don't have a console). Gladly she is not like Merrill, more like Varric or Isabella - fun-loving and easygoing . The banter in question is not one of the more obvious ones. I didn't get it in my first two playthroughs, also I had Merrill with me a lot more than nowadays. Therefore I think, it could be companion banter - some of my companion preferences changed during playthroughs. I think, it could have been a banter with Aveline, but I*m not sure. I never really thought about why the clan turned on Merrill, but I think, it has more to do with her making demon deals than actually using blood magic. I don't think, blood magic was that big a deal with the dalish, at least until now, it mostly came up in human societies, so no real evidence for anything there. I'm not a huge fan of blood magic myself, but if I remember correctly, you don't have to deal with demons to use blood magic per se. But Merrill does, plus the Eluvhian in question made Mahariel sick and killed Tamlen. I guess, the demon deal and the darkspawn tainted mirror combined made the clan fear Merrill. I suspect, if she had tried blood magic once and left it at that then and there, they would have dismissed it. But again, speculation on my part based on what I know about how Dalish handle magic and mages based on the games. Edit: Catilina was a bit faster Edit 2: shameful typos
|
|
inherit
861
0
Nov 14, 2019 14:57:04 GMT
2,489
deadlydwarf
1,321
August 2016
deadlydwarf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by deadlydwarf on Dec 11, 2016 15:19:44 GMT
I don't remember that as banter, but I do remember how quick Merrill's clan was to turn on her over her efforts to restore the eluvian over blood magic. Merrill believed Marethari had turned them against her. (And then Marethari makes a deal with the same demon getting herself possessed and ultimately killed?) Now do the Dalish try to ban blood magic as the humans do? Or is that something more clan specific? I like your icon. DAI PC? Kind of Merrill-ish. Thank you - yep it's my elven mage Riya in DAI and on PC (don't have a console). Gladly she is not like Merrill, more like Varric or Isabella - fun-loving and easygoing . The banter in question is not one of the more obvious ones. I didn't get it in my first two playthroughs, also I had Merrill with me a lot more than nowadays. Therefore I think, it could be companion banter - some of my companion preferences changed during playthroughs. I think, it could have been a banter with Aveline, but I*m not sure. I never really thought about why the clan turned on Merrill, but I think, it has more to do with her making demon deals than actually using blood magic. I don't think, blood magic was that big a deal with the dalish, at least until now, it mostly came up in human societies, so no real evidence for anything there. I'm not a huge fan of blood magic myself, but if I remember correctly, you don't have to deal with demons to use blood magic per se. But Merrill does, plus the Eluvhian in question made Mahariel sick and killed Tamlen. I guess, the demon deal and the darkspawn tainted mirror combined made the clan fear Merrill. I suspect, if she had tried blood magic once and left it at that then and there, they would have dismissed it. But again, speculation on my part based on what I know about how Dalish handle magic and mages based on the games. Edit: Catilina was a bit faster Edit 2: shameful typos And Catilina: Good point on the clan and Marethari being concerned most about the mirror, though Marethari's final deal with the demon still seems insane. If she was concerned that the demon would try to possess Merrill, why not try to kill it instead of make a deal with it?
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 11, 2016 15:39:13 GMT
Thank you - yep it's my elven mage Riya in DAI and on PC (don't have a console). Gladly she is not like Merrill, more like Varric or Isabella - fun-loving and easygoing . The banter in question is not one of the more obvious ones. I didn't get it in my first two playthroughs, also I had Merrill with me a lot more than nowadays. Therefore I think, it could be companion banter - some of my companion preferences changed during playthroughs. I think, it could have been a banter with Aveline, but I*m not sure. I never really thought about why the clan turned on Merrill, but I think, it has more to do with her making demon deals than actually using blood magic. I don't think, blood magic was that big a deal with the dalish, at least until now, it mostly came up in human societies, so no real evidence for anything there. I'm not a huge fan of blood magic myself, but if I remember correctly, you don't have to deal with demons to use blood magic per se. But Merrill does, plus the Eluvhian in question made Mahariel sick and killed Tamlen. I guess, the demon deal and the darkspawn tainted mirror combined made the clan fear Merrill. I suspect, if she had tried blood magic once and left it at that then and there, they would have dismissed it. But again, speculation on my part based on what I know about how Dalish handle magic and mages based on the games. Edit: Catilina was a bit faster Edit 2: shameful typos And Catilina: Good point on the clan and Marethari being concerned most about the mirror, though Marethari's final deal with the demon still seems insane. If she was concerned that the demon would try to possess Merrill, why not try to kill it instead of make a deal with it? I think she dont believe, that she can kill alone, and don't want to ask the clan/Hawke/Merrill (yes, this was foolish). Don't forget: TRYING to kill or KILLING is different: as she said, a bad try perhaps could strengthen the demon...
|
|
inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2016 16:10:17 GMT
And Catilina: Good point on the clan and Marethari being concerned most about the mirror, though Marethari's final deal with the demon still seems insane. If she was concerned that the demon would try to possess Merrill, why not try to kill it instead of make a deal with it? I think she dont believe, that she can kill alone, and don't want to ask the clan/Hawke/Merrill (yes, this was foolish). Don't forget: TRYING to kill or KILLING is different: as she said, a bad try perhaps could strengthen the demon... I agree, I too think that she did it to keep the demon from turning onto the Clan or Merrill. And of course, it was insane, but from Maretharis viewpoint it probably was the only thing to do.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Dec 11, 2016 16:57:28 GMT
I think she dont believe, that she can kill alone, and don't want to ask the clan/Hawke/Merrill (yes, this was foolish). Don't forget: TRYING to kill or KILLING is different: as she said, a bad try perhaps could strengthen the demon... I agree, I too think that she did it to keep the demon from turning onto the Clan or Merrill. And of course, it was insane, but from Maretharis viewpoint it probably was the only thing to do. I think remaining so close to the demon for so long got to Marethari. A small change each day as the demon worked on her in her dreams.
|
|
inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2016 17:06:44 GMT
I agree, I too think that she did it to keep the demon from turning onto the Clan or Merrill. And of course, it was insane, but from Maretharis viewpoint it probably was the only thing to do. I think remaining so close to the demon for so long got to Marethari. A small change each day as the demon worked on her in her dreams. That's a good explanation too.
|
|
inherit
2336
0
30
runespoor
12
December 2016
runespoor
|
Post by runespoor on Dec 12, 2016 23:48:46 GMT
Why would the presence of children change one thing or another? The circle is infested, the remaining mages are still potentially a threat. Sure, but it can make a Warden change their minds: Greagoir said nothing about there being children in the Circle, which was slightly too close to "trying to pull a fast one" on my Aeducan for her liking. For instance, my Aeducan was previously perfectly willing to kill the mages (it was a shame, because magic is so useful - darkspawn emissaries are a bit of a pain, it sure would be nice to have that kind of power on your side!) on Greagoir's word, because Greagoir knows his stuff better than she does. Then, meeting Wynne and the children, she decided she wasn't going to kill children on a simple suspicion. Killing children with proof, fine, no problem, you gotta do what you gotta do. But you take the time to be sure. Even if the surface world sure does like making their mage-gifted kids casteless for no good reason.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Dec 12, 2016 23:51:11 GMT
Why would the presence of children change one thing or another? The circle is infested, the remaining mages are still potentially a threat. Sure, but it can make a Warden change their minds Because children cannot become possessed.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 13, 2016 0:04:45 GMT
Sure, but it can make a Warden change their minds Because children cannot become possessed. Ofc children can be possessed, but Wynne and the others watched over them.
|
|
inherit
2336
0
30
runespoor
12
December 2016
runespoor
|
Post by runespoor on Dec 13, 2016 0:16:30 GMT
Sure, but it can make a Warden change their minds Because children cannot become possessed. I'm sorry, what does that have to do with changing one's mind?
|
|