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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 16:39:49 GMT
People can't take a character that is accountable to any authority figure and is not in a full control of the world and spits in the face of anyone with any seniority. Any small time character in the world is not going fly. Peeps hated Ryder, Smuggler, Trooper, Hawke... they want grandeur, in their thirties that totally controls the shit and doesn't give a shit. This is so not true at all. It's about charisma. Having actual leadership skills and a backbone. Hawke is actually a lot like Shepard. The problem with Ryder is that s/he's some sheltered spoiled kid who gets the job handed to them and only succeeds because SAM babysits them the entire game. Hawke went through hell and built a life from scratch. No magical AI or glowing hand that gives them special abilities. Both Shepard and Hawke earned their reputation. So actually, it's Ryder and the inquisitor who are the special snowflakes with godlike abilities that they just received. And the regular people are Shepard and Hawke who got ahead in life through hard work. And yes, I know Shepard is space Jesus. But the beacon isn't what made Shep special, it was an extraordinary inspiring personality. You can play Hawke as an authority mocking asshole. Just like renegade Shepard. You can't do that with Ryder. Ryder is a spineless boy scout. Nobody minds the warden who is also just some regular person who gets sucked into the archdemon business. The problem with Ryder and also the inquisitor is that they are bland and uncharismatic. At least to me. I meant exactly what you said. It's not about how endowed they are, it's about them being grand and not giving a shit. If an officer in C-Sec starts acting like Shepard, and is not fired, but adapts like Hawke or Ryder, people will not like it.
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Post by abaris on Aug 25, 2017 16:43:22 GMT
You can play Hawke as an authority mocking asshole. Just like renegade Shepard. So by your definition, they should be in the same category. You can't be assertive with Ryder. Ryder is a spineless boy scout. You know what's ironic about that? The German word for boy scout is actually Pfadfinder (Pathfinder).
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Post by Kappa Neko on Aug 25, 2017 16:56:41 GMT
I meant exactly what you said. It's not about how endowed they are, it's about them being grand and not giving a shit. If an officer in C-Sec starts acting like Shepard, and is not fired, but adapts like Hawke or Ryder, people will not like it. But even full paragon Shepard(my favorite one) has way more authority than Ryder. It's not about being an asshole, it's about being a leader. Somebody who acts and looks like they can get shit done. Doesn't have to be by brute force. I mean, not even the crew respects Ryder! They walk out on Scott or Sara during a meeting. This is not the kind o protagonist people want to play. I agree in a sense it's of course about a power fantasy. It didn't sit well with people that Hawke failed to save the day even though Hawke was very charismatic. People enjoy inspiring strong protagonists. Which is not the same as being some pyscho asshole. Full renegade Shepard is quite ridiculous. But at least players were given a choice how to play Shepard or Hawke. For me it's about having a believable protagonist who looks and acts the part. And about earning their leadership. Humble beginnings are fine if goals are achieved through suffering. Ryder lost daddy, ok. But other than that there was no sacrifice at all. Nobody died. Nobody got hurt at all. Everybody was friends. Very very dull. That's just me though speculating why others didn't enjoy Ryder much either. I even like Ryder better than the inquisitor who was the worst thing about DAI to me together with the dull combat. But my cup of tea he was not. So after two weak protagonists I personally wish for another Shepard or Hawke. Or Ryder to grow up and be more of a leader should they continue the character (which seems unlikely).
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Post by clips7 on Aug 25, 2017 17:07:27 GMT
I meant exactly what you said. It's not about how endowed they are, it's about them being grand and not giving a shit. If an officer in C-Sec starts acting like Shepard, and is not fired, but adapts like Hawke or Ryder, people will not like it. People enjoy inspiring strong protagonists. Which is not the same as being some pyscho asshole. Full renegade Shepard is quite ridiculous. But at least players were given a choice how to play Shepard or Hawke. For me it's about having a believable protagonist who looks and acts the part. And about earning their leadership. Humble beginnings are fine if goals are achieved through suffering. Ryder lost daddy, ok. But other than that there was no sacrifice at all. Nobody died. Nobody got hurt at all. Everybody was friends. Very very dull. . I completely agree with this.....1000%.....you hit the nail on the head....
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 25, 2017 17:11:47 GMT
The problem with Ryder and also the inquisitor is that they are bland and uncharismatic. At least to me. Meanwhile for me I like Ryder way more than Shepard, and the Inquisitor is by far my favorite Bioware protagonist of recent games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 17:13:12 GMT
This is so not true at all. It's about charisma. Having actual leadership skills and a backbone. Hawke is actually a lot like Shepard. The problem with Ryder is that s/he's some sheltered spoiled kid who gets the job handed to them and only succeeds because SAM babysits them the entire game. Hawke went through hell and built a life from scratch. No magical AI or glowing hand that gives them special abilities. Both Shepard and Hawke earned their reputation. So actually, it's Ryder and the inquisitor who are the special snowflakes with godlike abilities that they just received. And the regular people are Shepard and Hawke who got ahead in life through hard work. And yes, I know Shepard is space Jesus. But the beacon isn't what made Shep special, it was an extraordinary inspiring personality. You can play Hawke as an authority mocking asshole. Just like renegade Shepard. You can't do that with Ryder. Ryder is a spineless boy scout. Nobody minds the warden who is also just some regular person who gets sucked into the archdemon business. The problem with Ryder and also the inquisitor is that they are bland and uncharismatic. At least to me. I meant exactly what you said. It's not about how endowed they are, it's about them being grand and not giving a shit. If an officer in C-Sec starts acting like Shepard, and is not fired, but adapts like Hawke or Ryder, people will not like it. If I get this straight you're saying that Ryder was adaptive but Shepard wasn't? ME:A's dialog wheel was far from adaptive. All the choices had the same outcome where as Shepard's choices played out differently. With Shepard you could adapt to the situation as you please and with Ryder you couldn't.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 25, 2017 17:18:44 GMT
For me, the rookie was like a doormat. I mean he/she couldn't even get in the stowaway's face for knocking him/her to the ground. What a wimp. I'm not asking Ryder to shoot or punch everyone, but to stand up for themselves. Show some backbone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 17:20:56 GMT
For me, the rookie was like a doormat. I mean he/she couldn't even get in the stowaway's face for knocking him/her to the ground. What a wimp. I'm not asking Ryder to shoot or punch everyone, but to stand up for themselves. Show some backbone. There's also a couple npc's that punk you pretty bad through out the game not to mention your own crew not caring what you say (If you try to run the ship military style).
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Post by areskeith on Aug 26, 2017 1:55:51 GMT
The problem with Ryder and also the inquisitor is that they are bland and uncharismatic. At least to me. Ryder nor the Inquisitor were bland for me
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Post by ENGINEER_H4RR7 on Aug 26, 2017 2:12:57 GMT
I really hope it returns as a SINGLE player RPG without any tacked on MP that is pointless. I want a story that makes me make decisions and makes me shape my character. Not a soulless MP or an MMORPG game (UGH).
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 26, 2017 2:16:57 GMT
For me, the rookie was like a doormat. I mean he/she couldn't even get in the stowaway's face for knocking him/her to the ground. What a wimp. I'm not asking Ryder to shoot or punch everyone, but to stand up for themselves. Show some backbone. "Backbone" seems to be a weird way to describe freaking out over that, though I'm not really clear on exactly what you've been asking for Ryder to be able to do there.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2017 4:29:24 GMT
"Backbone" seems to be a weird way to describe freaking out over that, though I'm not really clear on exactly what you've been asking for Ryder to be able to do there. I'm not really clear on why you have a probem with the word backbone? Why can't Ryder get in the asari's face saying what the **** is your problem? Or say "How would you like if I knock you to the ground"? I'm sure the asari wouldn't like that.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 26, 2017 6:07:18 GMT
I meant exactly what you said. It's not about how endowed they are, it's about them being grand and not giving a shit. If an officer in C-Sec starts acting like Shepard, and is not fired, but adapts like Hawke or Ryder, people will not like it. But even full paragon Shepard(my favorite one) has way more authority than Ryder. It's not about being an asshole, it's about being a leader. Somebody who acts and looks like they can get shit done. Doesn't have to be by brute force. I mean, not even the crew respects Ryder! They walk out on Scott or Sara during a meeting. This is not the kind o protagonist people want to play. I agree in a sense it's of course about a power fantasy. It didn't sit well with people that Hawke failed to save the day even though Hawke was very charismatic. People enjoy inspiring strong protagonists. Which is not the same as being some pyscho asshole. Full renegade Shepard is quite ridiculous. But at least players were given a choice how to play Shepard or Hawke. For me it's about having a believable protagonist who looks and acts the part. And about earning their leadership. Humble beginnings are fine if goals are achieved through suffering. Ryder lost daddy, ok. But other than that there was no sacrifice at all. Nobody died. Nobody got hurt at all. Everybody was friends. Very very dull. That's just me though speculating why others didn't enjoy Ryder much either. I even like Ryder better than the inquisitor who was the worst thing about DAI to me together with the dull combat. But my cup of tea he was not. So after two weak protagonists I personally wish for another Shepard or Hawke. Or Ryder to grow up and be more of a leader should they continue the character (which seems unlikely). I like MEA, but this is a huge issue for me. I want to RP a protagonist worthy of the respect of the crew. Sara is an awkward mess, though, and Scott is only somewhat better. (His writing is less corny, and Tom Taylorson didn't "ham up" the childish content as Fryda did.) I absolutely do not want to be the guy that people walk out on, just as you say. I'd not yell "speed bump" while running over foes. I'd not awkwardly tell my crew, "I think you're really cute-- especially your accent. I'll go stand over there, now," like a nerdy 10 yo. I would certainly not tolerate my crew walking out without being dismissed. I absolutely do not self-insert when playing RPGs. I RP the character as I imagine them. The problem I have is that the Pathfinder, as written, is often unworthy of respect. I can't follow you if I don't take you seriously. Why the hell would I want to RP such a character? The teeny, over the top jokester crap is my biggest gripe with MEA.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Aug 26, 2017 7:25:20 GMT
But even full paragon Shepard(my favorite one) has way more authority than Ryder. It's not about being an asshole, it's about being a leader. Somebody who acts and looks like they can get shit done. Doesn't have to be by brute force. I mean, not even the crew respects Ryder! They walk out on Scott or Sara during a meeting. This is not the kind o protagonist people want to play. I agree in a sense it's of course about a power fantasy. It didn't sit well with people that Hawke failed to save the day even though Hawke was very charismatic. People enjoy inspiring strong protagonists. Which is not the same as being some pyscho asshole. Full renegade Shepard is quite ridiculous. But at least players were given a choice how to play Shepard or Hawke. For me it's about having a believable protagonist who looks and acts the part. And about earning their leadership. Humble beginnings are fine if goals are achieved through suffering. Ryder lost daddy, ok. But other than that there was no sacrifice at all. Nobody died. Nobody got hurt at all. Everybody was friends. Very very dull. That's just me though speculating why others didn't enjoy Ryder much either. I even like Ryder better than the inquisitor who was the worst thing about DAI to me together with the dull combat. But my cup of tea he was not. So after two weak protagonists I personally wish for another Shepard or Hawke. Or Ryder to grow up and be more of a leader should they continue the character (which seems unlikely). I like MEA, but this is a huge issue for me. I want to RP a protagonist worthy of the respect of the crew. Sara is an awkward mess, though, and Scott is only somewhat better. (His writing is less corny, and Tom Taylorson didn't "ham up" the childish content as Fryda did.) I absolutely do not want to be the guy that people walk out on, just as you say. I'd not yell "speed bump" while running over foes. I'd not awkwardly tell my crew, "I think you're really cute-- especially your accent. I'll go stand over there, now," like a nerdy 10 yo. I would certainly not tolerate my crew walking out without being dismissed. I absolutely do not self-insert when playing RPGs. I RP the character as I imagine them. The problem I have is that the Pathfinder, as written, is often unworthy of respect. I can't follow you if I don't take you seriously. Why the hell would I want to RP such a character? The teeny, over the top jokester crap is my biggest gripe with MEA. Exactly. I don't self-insert either. I want to play a kickass hero, not some awkward kid that could have been me ten years ago. The childish tone of the game did not fit the tense survival scenario at all. As you say, why should I respect a character and take the game seriously when none of the NPCs do? The game was so tone deaf it's bizarre. MEA doesn't know what it wants to be. There is no coherence in the game. No sense of direction during development really shows. I already couldn't imagine why anybody admired the inquisitor. She basically just did what the advisors said and had no clue whatsoever what's going on. This time SAM is the babysitter. The whole time playing DAI I wished we could have had kickass Cassandra as the protagonist. Somebody with a clear focus and vision. In MEA I would have much preferred daddy Ryder. I don't mind awkward coming of age stories but find this very unfitting for an "epic" narrative that I expect of Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I know plenty of people enjoy the self insert romance simulator that Bioware seems to be more more fond of, and that's fine. But it's not a direction that appeals to me.
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Post by jclosed on Aug 26, 2017 8:15:20 GMT
"Backbone" seems to be a weird way to describe freaking out over that, though I'm not really clear on exactly what you've been asking for Ryder to be able to do there. I'm not really clear on why you have a probem with the word backbone? Why can't Ryder get in the asari's face saying what the **** is your problem? Or say "How would you like if I knock you to the ground"? I'm sure the asari wouldn't like that. Problem is - If Ryder should do that he probably would be in prison in no time. You seem to forget this is no military, but a civilian operation. To put it strait - Shep could only be that harsh because he was supported by a whole military-industrial complex. He could get away with things, because he is no part of a civilian society. His authority is based on "big guns behind his back" and only because he has this backup he can act the way he does.If he goes to far, he is judged by a military court and not a civilian court. And those military supported authorities are allowed to be more harsh because of "reasons" (and lots of guns). So Shepard could get away with things that non-military people in an normal society would get them in big trouble. If Ryder would act like Shepard in the environment of the Andromeda Initiative, people would not only walk faster away from him than you could hold possible (giving him the middle finger), but he also be thrown in jail countless times. He probably would end as outlaw - a nobody that is respected by nobody. Ryder does not have that big military complex as fall-back or backup. He has to do it all by his own. He has to earn authority in stead of getting it by "big guns behind his back". So yes - he has to be diplomatic. He has to be careful in how he acts, because it's civilian law he has to answer to - even if he is in outlaw environment. And he slowly gets that respect during the game. It's one of the aspects I really like of Andromeda. You do not start as a superhero with a huge backup force that supports you. You have to earn everything in every step, and have to succeed against all odds.
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Post by glockwheeler on Aug 26, 2017 10:00:41 GMT
I'm not really clear on why you have a probem with the word backbone? Why can't Ryder get in the asari's face saying what the **** is your problem? Or say "How would you like if I knock you to the ground"? I'm sure the asari wouldn't like that. Problem is - If Ryder should do that he probably would be in prison in no time. You seem to forget this is no military, but a civilian operation. To put it strait - Shep could only be that harsh because he was supported by a whole military-industrial complex. He could get away with things, because he is no part of a civilian society. His authority is based on "big guns behind his back" and only because he has this backup he can act the way he does.If he goes to far, he is judged by a military court and not a civilian court. And those military supported authorities are allowed to be more harsh because of "reasons" (and lots of guns). So Shepard could get away with things that non-military people in an normal society would get them in big trouble. If Ryder would act like Shepard in the environment of the Andromeda Initiative, people would not only walk faster away from him than you could hold possible (giving him the middle finger), but he also be thrown in jail countless times. He probably would end as outlaw - a nobody that is respected by nobody. Ryder does not have that big military complex as fall-back or backup. He has to do it all by his own. He has to earn authority in stead of getting it by "big guns behind his back". So yes - he has to be diplomatic. He has to be careful in how he acts, because it's civilian law he has to answer to - even if he is in outlaw environment. And he slowly gets that respect during the game. It's one of the aspects I really like of Andromeda. You do not start as a superhero with a huge backup force that supports you. You have to earn everything in every step, and have to succeed against all odds. I understand, but I believe that part of the problem with MEA in general, is that Bioware set the basic tone of what ME was with Shepard and crew, as well as the enemies they faced. By starting the next game from a weak position and what I consider to be weaker enemies, they created a setting that seems a bit dull in comparison to the original trilogy. It is hard to generate the same base response from many players with this setting. Some fans like MEA, some do not. I can easily relate to those who were not overly impressed in general. It really is unfortunate that things are where they at this point. If a future game is developed, I suspect it will make or break the franchise for good. I would like to see Bioware succeed and would very much hate seeing ME fade away.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Aug 26, 2017 10:05:00 GMT
I remember when a game being broken meant that it actually could not be played. As opposed to having a few wonky animations that I personally didn't even really notice. Sadly, I was one of the players that could not finish the game before the third patch if I remember right. I could not finish Drack loyalty mission for example. And when I finally could, it was the horrid glitch fest also seen in some youtube vids which was so friggin sad because I enjoyed that part of the game maybe most. It had the old corridor style and had a fast pace that the old games had. Many times I just wandered lost in the game world because my side quests never finished and I couldn't figure out what to do next or is there something I did wrong. The amount of glitch and bugs I encountered stressed me too much in one point that I just stopped playing. As a hardcore mass effect fan I never would believe that I need to force myself to complete the game. I also never really understood why this games visuals were so praised. Many indoors looked grey and the outfits looked weird, kinda gummy and too shiny (except my Ryder's armor - they were done beautifully). Landscapes were for the most part just sand and rocks. Also I had lots of issues with sound - I don't remember having any music in any bars but people where dancing and having a good time. And this is only my short memo. I was kinda schoked of the quality of the game as I have just finished the original trilogy. I don't want to spread any negativity in here but I just have to disagree. My game had a very bad condition in the beginning and sadly I will never finish it now with the many upgrades because of the lack of DLC AND still having the asari clones.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Aug 26, 2017 10:23:59 GMT
Impossibility to finish quests (had to reboot the game...), characters disappearing from screen (had to reboot again), game freezing and crashing (hahah, reboot the game again and again), stuck in a totally black (!) background (this one was weird...guess what ? reboot) etc.etc.etc. how would you call that ? I call it broken game. I'm glad you obviously didn't have 1% of the troubles I had, but yes, cursed players like me who had terrible technical issues with MEA exist, we're lot a legend. Then, by your arbitrary definition of a broken game, the Witcher 3 is a broken game. I was unable to finish certain sidequests due to enemies falling through the ground or some glitch robbing me of my ability to draw either of my swords. I experienced the bug that erased your gamesave and saw numerous NPC's just pop out of existence in the backgrounds of certain conversations. One of my treasure hunts was permanently incompletable (it is still bugged to this day) and the game would regularly crash on me, usually preceded by a black screen or a loading screen. Yet, somehow, myself and many others think that the Witcher 3 is damn-near a masterpiece of a video game. Funny how that worked out. I don't think people are claiming that Andromeda wasn't buggy or that you're lying. If they are, they shouldn't be because that is simply untrue. However, parading examples of occasional bugs experienced by a small percentage of players and claiming that it's representative of a 20-60 hour game is disingenuous at the very least. I hope we can at least agree on that. Oh here we go again with Witcher 3 and BW but anyway. My Witcher is actually still incomplete due to Andromeda coming out. You say small percentage of gamers. Where are your source? I read of almost everyone was having at least one bigger problem (source is from here in the troubleshooting section and in other topics). Andromeda was not only buggy and glitchy, it was not an enjoyable game. Add mistakes to that and it can be a very stressful experience. The pacing was off (sorry my english) so some thing happened in wrong order (f.example the Architects). I was never lost of what the heck do next in Witcher even though it was a huge and so well detailed map that I did not want to look out of my own window. So Andromeda overall had too many bugs with uncomplete story served in unnatural order sometimes. That, in result, is a very broken or at least very, very wonky game.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Aug 26, 2017 10:33:34 GMT
I would certainly not tolerate my crew walking out without being dismissed. I absolutely do not self-insert when playing RPGs. I RP the character as I imagine them. The problem I have is that the Pathfinder, as written, is often unworthy of respect. I can't follow you if I don't take you seriously. Why the hell would I want to RP such a character? The teeny, over the top jokester crap is my biggest gripe with MEA. I fully agree. The crew vanishing without Ryder's permission got too much to my ego! : D Oh god how I missed Shepard.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 26, 2017 11:43:49 GMT
Andromeda got too much criticism? EAdude must be new here. If you cancel out the fanboys and haters, the game was reportedly mediocre. The kind of mediocre that just doesn't sell. It's like good movies, so-bad-they're-good movies and... just sort of bland movies. Andromeda is like the latter (post bug/animation fixes). I'm sure EA made its money back and then a bit, but it's not the profit they were looking for. It's not rocket science. No he's right. Too many people were just waiting to bash the game, including those who never touched it. Like I said in another thread, there has been some apparent reaction to the screaming neckbeard ragers ever since ME:3 that sometimes spread to SWTOR (some of which got reversed later, thankfully) and other games since. Just disband Bioware and bury the name for good. Too much negativity associated with the brand anymore.
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
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Post by mannyray on Aug 26, 2017 11:49:18 GMT
The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the incompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. You do realize you couldn't even tell in game right? Oh no you don't you never got that far. Another indication he probably never even played the trial.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2017 11:51:18 GMT
Problem is - If Ryder should do that he probably would be in prison in no time. You seem to forget this is no military, but a civilian operation. Why are you assuming that I believe its a military operation and not a civilian operation? Why would a civilian operation prevent Ryder from standing up to the asari after being knocked to the ground? I never said for Ryder to shoot or punch the asari. So getting in the asari's face to say a few words would not lead to Ryder being put in prison.
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Post by ozzie on Aug 26, 2017 12:17:39 GMT
Problem is - If Ryder should do that he probably would be in prison in no time. You seem to forget this is no military, but a civilian operation. Why are you assuming that I believe its a military operation and not a civilian operation? Why would a civilian operation prevent Ryder from standing up to the asari after being knocked to the ground? I never said for Ryder to shoot or punch the asari. So getting in the asari's face to say a few words would not lead to Ryder being put in prison. To be fair, the legal system of the AI is so messed up Ryder could probably shoot someone in the head, then claim it was just a 'successful attempted murder' and walk on a technicality.
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Post by armass81 on Aug 26, 2017 12:19:31 GMT
Tough it may be back one day, i wonder if it will ever capture the same kind of magic that the original trilogy did. If Star Wars for example has tough us anything, its that its hard to capture that moment again when you try to make something new. Many of the new movies have tried, all of them have failed. Its also the fault of the high past nostalgia, and some fans can just never get over with, no matter what they bring out. Most evident in those constantly asking Shepard back...
This may be the fate of ME as well. The future will never be like the past again.
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Post by abaris on Aug 26, 2017 13:12:56 GMT
Tough it may be back one day, i wonder if it will ever capture the same kind of magic that the original trilogy did. If Star Wars for example has tough us anything, its that its hard to capture that moment again when you try to make something new. Many of the new movies have tried, all of them have failed. Its also the fault of the high past nostalgia, and some fans can just never get over with, no matter what they bring out. Most evident in those constantly asking Shepard back... This may be the fate of ME as well. The future will never be like the past again. Look, all I expected from a Bioware game was being a Bioware game. They could easily capture the magic with me again. All it needs is a lead that doesn't feel like an avatar but one to immerse myself in. And companions that aren't a chore to talk with. In short, the concept of DAI would win me over again. MEA was entertaining to play once, but it's been nothing to immerse myself in. I found myself being more interested in shooting something up than I was in talking and interacting with my companions. That, far as I am concerned, is the cardinal sin of MEA. Being more shooter than RPG.
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