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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2017 13:16:45 GMT
Problem is - If Ryder should do that he probably would be in prison in no time. You seem to forget this is no military, but a civilian operation. To put it strait - Shep could only be that harsh because he was supported by a whole military-industrial complex. He could get away with things, because he is no part of a civilian society. His authority is based on "big guns behind his back" and only because he has this backup he can act the way he does.If he goes to far, he is judged by a military court and not a civilian court. And those military supported authorities are allowed to be more harsh because of "reasons" (and lots of guns). So Shepard could get away with things that non-military people in an normal society would get them in big trouble. If Ryder would act like Shepard in the environment of the Andromeda Initiative, people would not only walk faster away from him than you could hold possible (giving him the middle finger), but he also be thrown in jail countless times. He probably would end as outlaw - a nobody that is respected by nobody. Ryder does not have that big military complex as fall-back or backup. He has to do it all by his own. He has to earn authority in stead of getting it by "big guns behind his back". So yes - he has to be diplomatic. He has to be careful in how he acts, because it's civilian law he has to answer to - even if he is in outlaw environment. And he slowly gets that respect during the game. It's one of the aspects I really like of Andromeda. You do not start as a superhero with a huge backup force that supports you. You have to earn everything in every step, and have to succeed against all odds. This makes no sense. You think being authoritative would land the Pathfinder in prison? Why? The Pathfinder has been entrusted with huge responsibility and wide jurisdiction, particularly because of the dire circumstances. He can't tell PeeBee, "Get off. You almost got yourself shot!"? She really did, by the way. The crew pointed weapons at her. Do they belong in the brig? Can you imagine the crew or NPCs disrespecting Alec Ryder the way they disrespect our protagonist? Why are you assuming that I believe its a military operation and not a civilian operation? Why would a civilian operation prevent Ryder from standing up to the asari after being knocked to the ground? I never said for Ryder to shoot or punch the asari. So getting in the asari's face to say a few words would not lead to Ryder being put in prison. Exactly. To be fair, the legal system of the AI is so messed up Ryder could probably shoot someone in the head, then claim it was just a 'successful attempted murder' and walk on a technicality. This is true, and intentional. Before release (I believe amidst the IGN coverage), Mac Walters talked about this. He said that unlike Shepard, Ryder wouldn't really have anyone looking over his shoulder. Heleus is the lawless Wild West, where Ryder would be making up the rules as he goes, making judgments and decisions entirely at his own discretion, rather than at someone else's orders or standards. So, pretty much exactly the opposite of what jclosed said. (Not that stern talk with a civvie or subordinate would land Shepard in the brig, either.) Well if even with support something like this "should have sent Shep to the brig. Still it was fun and all my renegade sheps do it.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 27, 2017 13:50:28 GMT
But DA2's characters have strong personalities and bigger narratives that span the entire game, a couple of which are directly involved in the story in a meaningful way. For all of DA2's weaknesses, it very much plays up BioWare's core strengths. Personally, I thought the game was a bit of a riot. Lots of characters had amusing or meaningful things to say, and I think that DA2 has some of the best companion quests in the series. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. While it was nice to see party dynamics grow and evolve over Hawke's decade-long journey, I absolutely hated how it handled character relationships and timeskips. Party members would mention or reference things that happened offscreen during the year-long gaps in Varric's tale, yet I had never experienced. Nothing ruins immersion quite like having to respond to events that you never experienced. Now, maybe that's more of a symptom of the framed narrative that DA2 utilized, but it genuinely frustrated me. It really annoyed me that years of memories were often condensed into short codex entries that were pretty easy to miss. That being said, DA2's decade-long timeframe really allowed for some great character development. Aveline is actually in my top ten Bioware companions because of it. Her journey from tragedy to power was incredible. Unfortunately, it doesn't change that some other characters fell flat by comparison.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 27, 2017 14:14:33 GMT
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but I just felt I needed to give some context to my distaste for Dragon Age II. It's another objectively decent game, but, unlike Andromeda, it felt like I accomplished nothing as Hawke. Doubly so after playing Inquisition, where you spend a good majority of the game cleaning up Hawke's messes and failures. And yet I could immerse myself in the Hawke character. I couldn't with Ryder. Ryder felt like an avatar, a vehicle to be steered through the game. Hawke with all their failures, felt like a person, Ryder felt like a jerk. The companions certainly added their part to the feeling. They're not on par with DA2, and I never thought I would say this, since I hated DA2 at release and after having played the demo. Only after MEA did disappoint me on many levels, I thought to give it a try. Truth is, I probably would have hated DA2 had I played it after Origins and ME2. But as compared to MEA, I don't. I felt the exact opposite way. I couldn't immerse myself as Hawke because of how much more defined the character was. Ryder was far less defined, aside from his/her general lack of experience. I was able to do more with that from a roleplaying standpoint. Again, nothing wrong with your opinion, but I definitely have a different preference. As for the companions, I felt a stronger attachment to those in Andromeda than I did to those in DA2. Even if I thought Vetra was a tad too cliche, everybody on the Tempest felt more believable and real. I could see people like this existing in this setting. Whereas, only Varric and Aveline felt believable in DA2. To be fair, they were competing with the Elven Edgelord, the Antisocial Mage, the Frolicking Blood-Mage, the Polyamorous Pirate, the Prince of Vengeance, and Sibling Rivalry incarnate.
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Post by yan on Aug 27, 2017 15:21:28 GMT
I'm only human, after all. Don't put the blame on me.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 27, 2017 15:33:13 GMT
You see, Dragon Age II felt entirely like filler to me. Random fights were plentiful and always involved multiple waves of enemies, which only made going from one objective to another take even longer. More often than not, that meant enemies and reinforcements would appear as if from out of thin air. Isn't the number of enemies in an RPG mission always an arbitrary count designed to give an acceptable playing time? And plenty of games spawn in enemies. The only unusual thing about DA2 is that it doesn't hide what it's doing from the player the way, say, ME2 does. And yeah, you didn't accomplish much as Hawke. Accomplished some things, of course -- keeping the Arishok from destroying the place, getting some survivors out as a mage sympathizer in the endgame, and so forth. But it's fundamentally about a guy who can't control the world, which was a bit much for some CRPG players to take.
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Post by river82 on Aug 28, 2017 2:29:49 GMT
You see, Dragon Age II felt entirely like filler to me. Random fights were plentiful and always involved multiple waves of enemies, which only made going from one objective to another take even longer. More often than not, that meant enemies and reinforcements would appear as if from out of thin air. Isn't the number of enemies in an RPG mission always an arbitrary count designed to give an acceptable playing time? And plenty of games spawn in enemies. No. Also plenty of games are made by developers that don't have a history of tactical combat. DA:2 was the sequel of a game that emphasised strategic positioning in combat and that is impossible when men rain from the sky. It's a poor design choice for an entry in that RPG series.
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Post by river82 on Aug 28, 2017 2:39:15 GMT
But DA2's characters have strong personalities and bigger narratives that span the entire game, a couple of which are directly involved in the story in a meaningful way. For all of DA2's weaknesses, it very much plays up BioWare's core strengths. Personally, I thought the game was a bit of a riot. Lots of characters had amusing or meaningful things to say, and I think that DA2 has some of the best companion quests in the series. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. While it was nice to see party dynamics grow and evolve over Hawke's decade-long journey, I absolutely hated how it handled character relationships and timeskips. Party members would mention or reference things that happened offscreen during the year-long gaps in Varric's tale, yet I had never experienced. Nothing ruins immersion quite like having to respond to events that you never experienced. Now, maybe that's more of a symptom of the framed narrative that DA2 utilized, but it genuinely frustrated me. It really annoyed me that years of memories were often condensed into short codex entries that were pretty easy to miss. That being said, DA2's decade-long timeframe really allowed for some great character development. Aveline is actually in my top ten Bioware companions because of it. Her journey from tragedy to power was incredible. Unfortunately, it doesn't change that some other characters fell flat by comparison. Dragon Age 2 reminded me of Fable, and I think they took "inspiration" from that in similar ways to how they took "inspiration" from No Man's Sky for ME:A and the Witcher/Skyrim for DA:I. To be honest, I just wish Bioware would go back to making games they want to make using their own style rather than running around trying to copy everybody else So it's a good thing Destiny Anthem is going to be released next year
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 3:54:08 GMT
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. While it was nice to see party dynamics grow and evolve over Hawke's decade-long journey, I absolutely hated how it handled character relationships and timeskips. Party members would mention or reference things that happened offscreen during the year-long gaps in Varric's tale, yet I had never experienced. Nothing ruins immersion quite like having to respond to events that you never experienced. Now, maybe that's more of a symptom of the framed narrative that DA2 utilized, but it genuinely frustrated me. It really annoyed me that years of memories were often condensed into short codex entries that were pretty easy to miss. That being said, DA2's decade-long timeframe really allowed for some great character development. Aveline is actually in my top ten Bioware companions because of it. Her journey from tragedy to power was incredible. Unfortunately, it doesn't change that some other characters fell flat by comparison. Dragon Age 2 reminded me of Fable, and I think they took "inspiration" from that in similar ways to how they took "inspiration" from No Man's Sky for ME:A and the Witcher/Skyrim for DA:I. To be honest, I just wish Bioware would go back to making games they want to make using their own style rather than running around trying to copy everybody else So it's a good thing Destiny Anthem is going to be released next year I don't blame them if they don't now a days. Last two times they did in Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 people shat all over them, rightfully or no.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 28, 2017 7:37:54 GMT
Isn't the number of enemies in an RPG mission always an arbitrary count designed to give an acceptable playing time? And plenty of games spawn in enemies. No. Also plenty of games are made by developers that don't have a history of tactical combat. DA:2 was the sequel of a game that emphasised strategic positioning in combat and that is impossible when men rain from the sky. It's a poor design choice for an entry in that RPG series.Could you clarify the "no"? How do you figure the number of enemies gets set? As for DA2 not following DA:O's lead.... meh. I'm not a huge fan of doing things just because the previous game did them, and I don't see why I should be.
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Post by river82 on Aug 28, 2017 8:18:23 GMT
No. Also plenty of games are made by developers that don't have a history of tactical combat. DA:2 was the sequel of a game that emphasised strategic positioning in combat and that is impossible when men rain from the sky. It's a poor design choice for an entry in that RPG series.Could you clarify the "no"? How do you figure the number of enemies gets set? Sure. It really depends on the type of RPG being developed and the goals for the game, TBH. Firstly you have the RPGs which are combat optional, where “you don’t have to fight any enemies if you don’t want to”. Well, I call them combat optional but really they're mostly combat optional, as in you won't be able to avoid all fights (I think) but you can avoid most combat. Some examples of these are Age of Decadence and Fallout 3. That most combat is avoidable automatically voids your point that the number of enemies within a mission in an RPG being designed to boost play time. If combat can be avoided it can't boost play time. A CRPG, being descended not from pure tabletop RPGs but rather tabletop battle games, has at its heart the idea of character growth through battles. Battles historically are there to promote growth for your characters first and foremost, not promote larger game times through combat. Combat does TAKE time, but it’s like saying exploration in an adventure game is always just there to boost play time to an acceptable level (this is false, BTW.) It’s a natural consequence of game mechanics. But the idea of growth provides many challenges, the chief amongst these is balance. The most important thing about combat in RPGs (unless you’re talking about JRPGs, where grinding is a big thing) is balance, and developers will spend a long time getting the balance right. The idea of adding more battles to waste time may be an acceptable trait in some RPGs where balance doesn't matter, namely those whose key concept is the player grinding to level 999 so they can do a million damage per hit to the boss. These are, imo, poorly designed games because excessive grinding is a poor design trait in my eyes. But these are very noticeable. Loot games will have more battles because the idea is for the character not only to level but to obtain loot and loot comes from enemy drops. But ideally (imo) the number of enemies in a well designed RPG will be adequate to provide growth for characters keeping the characters at a level where the next mission is still challenging, and is a number that is consistent with the world and the story. Some RPGs do this, like Shadowrun for example, but there is a movement in the Western RPG world that is moving toward truly optional combat. And this has to do with the belief of some that RPGs really symbolise “choice and consequence” not battles, and the only reason RPGs were related to battles in the first place was because that was all the technology could imitate. Sawyer is one of these people. Long story short, SOME RPGs may litter their game with battles to boost play time, but those are quite obvious. IMO most don’t. And it's definitely not all RPGs or all missions in RPGs. As for DA:2 not following DA:O, normally sequels of games are designed to appeal to the same group of fans that enjoyed the original. It won't drag in a different audience in great numbers, because they won't want to play the original to understand the sequel, and appealing to a different fanbase will just drive away fans of the original meaning potentially lower sales.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 28, 2017 15:26:15 GMT
I appreciate the distinction about CRPG history. Although I'd phrase it more as CRPGs being descended from early D&D, which was an RPG ruleset with minimal noncombat elements.(Far worse than rulesets which came along just a few years later.) No real difference since original D&D was often played as a "tabletop battle game."
Note that we can't map number of enemies onto growth in anything but a psychological sense. Even in games with combat XP, which I'd prefer to see go away for good, the awards are arbitrary. Bio and Black Isle D&D CRPGs award a small percentage of ruleset combat XP (the NWN toolset had a handy setting for this.) Combat's faster than PnP, so the devs add more combat. ToEE is the exception which proves the rule IIRC; it had slow combat.and so didn't need to add more. I'm not sure it makes sense to frame adding more combat as "wasting" time. Players typically enjoy the combat. If they didn't, most of them wouldn't stay players. We have a few exceptions to this rule here, who tolerate combat to gain access to the other parts of the game, but I think they're not a very large percentage.
"The same group of fans" is a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? I suppose some percentage of DA:O players were really committed to positional combat, but that would be true for any rule change. Note that DA:O itself could be brought up on the same charge, for bringing MMO-style Threat mechanics to what was supposedly a traditional CRPG. In fact, a lot of Bio fans did bring it up on those charges. I was one of them; I suppose you could say that DA:O made me realize that committing to a particular CRPG style was stupid.
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Post by rxd on Aug 28, 2017 15:59:11 GMT
I thought both DA2 and MEA were total weak sauce. But MEA was buggy as hell also and took 5 years while DA2 wasn't anywhere near as buggy and took 1 1/2 years. For so much time and effort to be put into a game as lame as MEA turned out is unbelievable
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Post by Psychevore on Aug 30, 2017 17:26:57 GMT
First off, your English isn't too bad, so don't worry. I was able to tell what you were getting at without any trouble. No worries. And, yes, it's a small percentage. There's a little less than 9,000 members on this forum. However, not all of them have played Mass Effect or Andromeda, and not all of the users are active, which means that 9,000 is a bit of a gross overestimate. Also, it's a troubleshooting section -- it's usually going to be filled with people having technical issues. There's not a lot of people on a troubleshooting forum who are just popping in to say how smoothly their game is running. Regardless, according to data in a reddit megathread regarding Mass Effect Andromeda sales data (you can find the same thread if you google it), about 2.7 million people bought the game during its first week. Even if everyone on this forum was active, had played Mass Effect Andromeda, and had a buggy experience, we'd only account for 0.333% of all players. However, even if only a million people played the game, we'd only account for 0.9%. So yes, I'd say that less than 1% is a small percentage. Again, I am not claiming Mass Effect Andromeda was a flawless game, but calling it a totally broken game seems like an unfair exaggeration. Those reddit numbers are bullshit. They're basing number on NPD which is only US sales and doesn't include digital sales for Horizon or Origin (but does include them for PS4 and Xbox for Andromeda). They also discount how Horizon came out at the end of February. Lmfao. You talked about these NPD numbers endlessly and basically said I was lying when I told you the exact same shit you're posting now. You're hilarious. You'll go to any length to defend your narrative and apparently, this includes willfully lying about things you know better. Because you didn't stop using the NPD numbers after we had our discussions, oh no, you still used them like a month ago.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 30, 2017 17:42:23 GMT
Those reddit numbers are bullshit. They're basing number on NPD which is only US sales and doesn't include digital sales for Horizon or Origin (but does include them for PS4 and Xbox for Andromeda). They also discount how Horizon came out at the end of February. Lmfao. You talked about these NPD numbers endlessly and basically said I was lying when I told you the exact same shit you're posting now. You're hilarious. You'll go to any length to defend your narrative and apparently, this includes willfully lying about things you know better. Because you didn't stop using the NPD numbers after we had our discussions, oh no, you still used them like a month ago. I used them in the correct context, not to spout bullshit a la that Reddit thread. Learn the difference.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 30, 2017 17:53:06 GMT
Lmfao. You talked about these NPD numbers endlessly and basically said I was lying when I told you the exact same shit you're posting now. You're hilarious. You'll go to any length to defend your narrative and apparently, this includes willfully lying about things you know better. Because you didn't stop using the NPD numbers after we had our discussions, oh no, you still used them like a month ago. I used them in the correct context, not to spout bullshit a la that Reddit thread. Learn the difference. Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then?
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Post by suikoden on Aug 30, 2017 18:02:46 GMT
I used them in the correct context, not to spout bullshit a la that Reddit thread. Learn the difference. Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then? Whatever it takes for you to stockpile those smilesja likes.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 30, 2017 18:04:17 GMT
Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then? Whatever it takes for you to stockpile those smilesja likes. Yeah, I'm saving them up. Thinking of buying myself a speedboat!
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Post by smilesja on Aug 30, 2017 18:05:27 GMT
Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then? Whatever it takes for you to stockpile those smilesja likes. Why are you involving me?
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 30, 2017 18:07:54 GMT
I used them in the correct context, not to spout bullshit a la that Reddit thread. Learn the difference. Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then? And it's a big one.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 30, 2017 18:44:01 GMT
Whatever it takes for you to stockpile those smilesja likes. Why are you involving me? You involve yourself when you like posts that attack me. You do that a lot. Easier to hide behind other people's posts I suppose.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Aug 30, 2017 19:24:35 GMT
Just to spout bullshit on the BSN forums then? Whatever it takes for you to stockpile those smilesja likes. Plot thickens. Here, have my like.
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Post by rras1994 on Aug 30, 2017 19:28:07 GMT
Why are you involving me? You involve yourself when you like posts that attack me. You do that a lot. Easier to hide behind other people's posts I suppose. Oh no! You've uncovered their secret plan of destroying you by liking posts. And Smilesja might have got away with it too! If it wasn't for you and your meddling kids! /s
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 30, 2017 19:31:05 GMT
Why are you involving me? You involve yourself when you like posts that attack me. You do that a lot. Easier to hide behind other people's posts I suppose. Well, you are the board's best source of cheap likes. A little below Dutch on average, but you post more. I don't generally go for that myself. It's like playing on Casual.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 30, 2017 19:42:54 GMT
You involve yourself when you like posts that attack me. You do that a lot. Easier to hide behind other people's posts I suppose. Oh no! You've uncovered their secret plan of destroying you by liking posts. And Smilesja might have got away with it too! If it wasn't for you and your meddling kids! /s Who would have thought that, above anything else, it would be likes that push Suiko over the edge.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 30, 2017 19:46:11 GMT
Why are you involving me? You involve yourself when you like posts that attack me. You do that a lot. Easier to hide behind other people's posts I suppose. Attack or disagreement? But so what? It has nothing to do with the argument and your are just going off topic.
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