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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 18:12:04 GMT
All I really paid attention to is this quote: "What we need to be careful though of is, whenever we bring Mass Effect back again, we have to make sure that we bring it back in a really [relevant] way, and in a fresh, exciting place," he added..."So it really depends on what they mean by "relevant" and what they're using it in relation to. When they do bring it back they need to make sure it is 100 percent ready to go. Don't give the youtube trolls any ammo whatsoever. Don't wait for patches to clean up technical hiccups and they need to have a clear direction in the development process. No changing horses mid stream. Even though me and you don't get along too well I agree 100%. The game would have been far better excepted and just came down to personal preference beyond that point. Edit: personal preference replaced opinion
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 24, 2017 18:12:41 GMT
All I really paid attention to is this quote: "What we need to be careful though of is, whenever we bring Mass Effect back again, we have to make sure that we bring it back in a really [relevant] way, and in a fresh, exciting place," he added..."So it really depends on what they mean by "relevant" and what they're using it in relation to. When they do bring it back they need to make sure it is 100 percent ready to go. Don't give the youtube trolls any ammo whatsoever. Don't wait for patches to clean up technical hiccups and they need to have a clear direction in the development process. No changing horses mid stream. That's exactly what they tried to do. They barely released anything about the game at all until the month of and still there were big issues. And we still got that infamous scene with Peebee holding her gun backwards. Now I'm no artist but I can't imagine the horror of releasing a demo reel with a mistake like that let alone doing it in a real project. Besides they did have the whole No Man's Sky direction. It was just a terrible direction and had to be scrapped.
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Post by jeyl on Aug 24, 2017 18:15:11 GMT
It also sounds like they literally have no idea what they should do with it, or where it should go next. If it's any comfort, the original trilogy sort of functioned like that. Which was only became problematic when it came to actually ending the original trilogy. Instead of ending 'Shepard's Story' in such a way that would leave the franchise open to more ideas, they stood by an ending that figuratively crippled the entire franchise. I think a key ingredient that made the original trilogy work was that each entry had a really good self-contained story. The first game introduced players to a brand new universe with wonderful world building. The second game did a good job at expanding elements from the first game and fully fleshing them out. The writers were particularly careful not to have moments that were never going to be fully realized in the first game not derail the main storyline. Like Cerberus, the Rachni Queen, the Protheans and the Shadow Broker. All were established in the first game but weren't expanded on in until the sequels. Andromeda's loose threads just throw the main story off because, unlike what I listed in the previous games, what we got in Andromeda is kind of important to the main story line. You find out that the founder of the initiative was murdered. That's kind of a big deal guys!
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Aug 24, 2017 18:26:57 GMT
DA:I received too little criticism, so it balances out I guess (for the record I think DA:I is a much better game as a whole than ME:A). EA should be the last people to say "the game received too much criticism", if the game has flaws they may well be known and if nothing else works (as the case with EA) we vote through our wallet. you must be new here.. sarcasm. I really liked Inquisition and with the DLC on it s a spectacular game. And ofcourse it has flaws. Of course the hardcore fans bashed it like it's Ride to Hell-Retribution, every Bioware game gets that treatment when released, then after the next game people suddenly remember that it wasn't that bad. The general reception for DA:I was very good, it was critically acclaimed and sold well, only after The Witcher 3 was released about half a year later the flaws of DA:I became much more apparent, and yes it had flaws that were needed to be addressed, some of them were in ME:A but at the expense of what we expect from a Bioware game.
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danishgambit
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 24, 2017 18:27:24 GMT
It's just the usual cooperate marketing speech that means nothing whatsoever one way or another. I'm pretty sure they know the game was NOT great even before they released it, the way they kept so hush hush until shortly before release. Troubled development is not something that speaks for confidence in a product. But of course they would never admit it. It's bad for business to admit fault. You'll never hear anybody talk bad about something they worked on publicly. Actors are the same way. Their latest film is always the best working experience they ever had. It's somewhat reassuring that Mass Effect is supposed to continue. But then again, it's really just a press release to calm down the gloom and doom Bioware is done voices and keep people interested in future products. You would have thought they had "fresh relevant" ideas for MEA... I'll never forget how they said they waited decades to make the new Indiana Jones movie because they wanted to have a really cool story to tell. And then it was aliens that turned into a major embarrassment. MEA is what "The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" was to Indiana Jones to me. That said, if they DO make another Mass Effect game, I doubt it can be any more disappointing than MEA. So, uh, I guess I'll just believe that MEA2 or ME4 or whatever it's going to be will be more "relevant" than space boy scouts. *g* Complaining about projects is more hush hush in gaming I guess but sometimes actors do rail on their movies. Hearing the Star Trek TNG cast talk about how bad some of their movies were is hilarious. It's when the franchise is ongoing I guess people stay quiet. A lot of the cast said good things about the reboot but you still have folks like Lavaar Burton and Walter Koenig talking about how the reboots weren't really true to the franchise at all. Even more hilarious (and sad) is how Paramount was so quick to kill off Star Trek: Axanar, a fan film made by many of the actors throughout the series. But ok this is off topic...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 18:29:44 GMT
If it's any comfort, the original trilogy sort of functioned like that. Which was only became problematic when it came to actually ending the original trilogy. Instead of ending 'Shepard's Story' in such a way that would leave the franchise open to more ideas, they stood by an ending that figuratively crippled the entire franchise. I think a key ingredient that made the original trilogy work was that each entry had a really good self-contained story. The first game introduced players to a brand new universe with wonderful world building. The second game did a good job at expanding elements from the first game and fully fleshing them out. The writers were particularly careful not to have moments that were never going to be fully realized in the first game not derail the main storyline. Like Cerberus, the Rachni Queen, the Protheans and the Shadow Broker. All were established in the first game but weren't expanded on in until the sequels. Andromeda's loose threads just throw the main story off because, unlike what I listed in the previous games, what we got in Andromeda is kind of important to the main story line. You find out that the founder of the initiative was murdered. That's kind of a big deal guys! Would have fixed the ending...
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 24, 2017 18:43:29 GMT
When they do bring it back they need to make sure it is 100 percent ready to go. Don't give the youtube trolls any ammo whatsoever. Don't wait for patches to clean up technical hiccups and they need to have a clear direction in the development process. No changing horses mid stream. Even though me and you don't get along too well I agree 100%. The game would have been far better excepted and just came down to personal preference beyond that point. Edit: personal preference replaced opinion We probably agree on more than we disagree. We just rub each other wrong. If anything I think MEA was lucky to be as good as it was considering the mismanagement and development hell it went through. It has it's flaws and sometimes the lack of direction is obvious when plaything the game but it still is a fun play.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 18:49:20 GMT
Even though me and you don't get along too well I agree 100%. The game would have been far better excepted and just came down to personal preference beyond that point. Edit: personal preference replaced opinion We probably agree on more than we disagree. We just rub each other wrong. If anything I think MEA was lucky to be as good as it was considering the mismanagement and development hell it went through. It has it's flaws and sometimes the lack of direction is obvious when plaything the game but it still is a fun play.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Aug 24, 2017 18:55:22 GMT
It's just the usual cooperate marketing speech that means nothing whatsoever one way or another. I'm pretty sure they know the game was NOT great even before they released it, the way they kept so hush hush until shortly before release. Troubled development is not something that speaks for confidence in a product. But of course they would never admit it. It's bad for business to admit fault. You'll never hear anybody talk bad about something they worked on publicly. Actors are the same way. Their latest film is always the best working experience they ever had. It's somewhat reassuring that Mass Effect is supposed to continue. But then again, it's really just a press release to calm down the gloom and doom Bioware is done voices and keep people interested in future products. You would have thought they had "fresh relevant" ideas for MEA... I'll never forget how they said they waited decades to make the new Indiana Jones movie because they wanted to have a really cool story to tell. And then it was aliens that turned into a major embarrassment. MEA is what "The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" was to Indiana Jones to me. That said, if they DO make another Mass Effect game, I doubt it can be any more disappointing than MEA. So, uh, I guess I'll just believe that MEA2 or ME4 or whatever it's going to be will be more "relevant" than space boy scouts. *g* Complaining about projects is more hush hush in gaming I guess but sometimes actors do rail on their movies. Hearing the Star Trek TNG cast talk about how bad some of their movies were is hilarious. It's when the franchise is ongoing I guess people stay quiet. A lot of the cast said good things about the reboot but you still have folks like Lavaar Burton and Walter Koenig talking about how the reboots weren't really true to the franchise at all. Even more hilarious (and sad) is how Paramount was so quick to kill off Star Trek: Axanar, a fan film made by many of the actors throughout the series. But ok this is off topic... Yeah trash talking about older movies or TV episodes is different. Some of the Farscape commentary is hilarious. But I've never heard anybody talk bad about a recent product that some people might yet buy.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 24, 2017 18:55:24 GMT
No changing horses mid stream. I don't think, this happened by choice. But it's a recipe for disaster. A whole lot of people said, they shouldn't have handed it to the B team. But that B team probably didn't suffer under a lack of talent but a lack of leadership and comprehensive vision. All things considered I think the devs in the trenches put in an admirable effort since they were fighting an uphill battle dealing with the lack of direction they were given and let's not forget the lack of experience a good number of them had. It's too bad they weren't given a chance to put some of the experience they gained to work with making a couple of DLC. Regardless of what people thought of the main game the DLC would have shown what they learned and what they would have been capable of in the future. I've always criticized handing the franchise over to the bench players but it's a pity now that these bench players won't be given a chance to evolve into starters. If I was EA I would have at least given the Montreal studio a chance to finish up the DLC and see how the DLC was received before deciding what to do with the Montreal studio. Look at the DA team they have had their share of bruises over the years but they always bounced back from them. DA 2 was crapped on pretty hard by a lot of people but most people seemed to respond well to it's DLCs. DAI was generally received pretty well but it had notable flaws it's DLC were considered an overall improvement over the base game and it's last DLC is arguably one of the best DLCs bioware has had to date. The Montreal team should have at least been given the opportunity to show that they can learn and improve.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 24, 2017 19:05:42 GMT
I don't think, this happened by choice. But it's a recipe for disaster. A whole lot of people said, they shouldn't have handed it to the B team. But that B team probably didn't suffer under a lack of talent but a lack of leadership and comprehensive vision. All things considered I think the devs in the trenches put in an admirable effort since they were fighting an uphill battle dealing with the lack of direction they were given and let's not forget the lack of experience a good number of them had. It's too bad they weren't given a chance to put some of the experience they gained to work with making a couple of DLC. Regardless of what people thought of the main game the DLC would have shown what they learned and what they would have been capable of in the future. I've always criticized handing the franchise over to the bench players but it's a pity now that these bench players won't be given a chance to evolve into starters. If I was EA I would have at least given the Montreal studio a chance to finish up the DLC and see how the DLC was received before deciding what to do with the Montreal studio. Look at the DA team they have had their share of bruises over the years but they always bounced back from them. DA 2 was crapped on pretty hard by a lot of people but most people seemed to respond well to it's DLCs. DAI was generally received pretty well but it had notable flaws it's DLC were considered an overall improvement over the base game and it's last DLC is arguably one of the best DLCs bioware has had to date. The Montreal team should have at least been given the opportunity to show that they can learn and improve. The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the incompetence was evident from the trench devs as well.
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Post by abaris on Aug 24, 2017 19:20:37 GMT
The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the incompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. If some nerds hadn't turned it into a meme, I don't think most people would have even noticed. The problem aren't the technical glitches at release. The problem is the lack of vision, writing and character design. Lead as well as crew. I'm not the only one thinking that I haven't played a bad game. I have played a bland game, without replay value. In this thread alone you find quite a few who got the same feeling. This game doesn't suffer under animations, glitches and bugs. This game suffers because someone forgot to add the proverbial salt to the soup. And that's not down to the grunts making it work. That's down to leadership, or rather the absence thereoff.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2017 19:25:26 GMT
The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the incompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. If some nerds hadn't turned it into a meme, I don't think most people would have even noticed. The problem aren't the technical glitches at release. The problem is the lack of vision, writing and character design. Lead as well as crew. I'm not the only one thinking that I haven't played a bad game. I have played a bland game, without replay value. In this thread alone you find quite a few who got the same feeling. This game doesn't suffer under animations, glitches and bugs. This game suffers because someone forgot to add the proverbial salt to the soup. And that's not down to the grunts making it work. That's down to leadership, or rather the absence thereoff. This is close to the problem in the end. Although I'd think they added too little salt, there was something there...but it needed a bit more seasoning.
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Post by abaris on Aug 24, 2017 19:28:56 GMT
This is close to the problem in the end. Although I'd think they added too little salt, there was something there...but it needed a bit more seasoning. As I always keep saying, I see a lot of wasted potential. It could have been so much more and it shines through at times. It just doesn't come to fruition.
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Post by Cassandra on Aug 24, 2017 19:32:25 GMT
Wrong. It was doomed to fail from the people who couldn't get over the endings and were begging for it to fail. Exactly these idiots hate Mass Effect because it is the "cool" thing to do. Man is society pathetic. This is blatant fanboyism at its finest. If people saying mean things about your game leads to its fairly lukewarm reception, maybe you need to reevaluate why they were saying those things? I know it's a stretch here but maybe, just maybe, people didn't like Andromeda? I know I thought it was average-- a game I've enjoyed playing here and there but one I also regret paying full price for. Does that make me pathetic because I don't have glowing things to say? Accept it. Andromeda was a somewhat mediocre entry to the franchise and a large number of fans felt it didn't come close to the original trilogy. That's why it failed. Instead of taking responsibility, EA is deflecting because their poor fe fes were hurt. Or more accurately, their bottom line took a hit but they don't want to say that.
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Post by mordingrimes on Aug 24, 2017 19:45:23 GMT
Exactly these idiots hate Mass Effect because it is the "cool" thing to do. Man is society pathetic. This is blatant fanboyism at its finest. If people saying mean things about your game leads to its fairly lukewarm reception, maybe you need to reevaluate why they were saying those things? I know it's a stretch here but maybe, just maybe, people didn't like Andromeda? I know I thought it was average-- a game I've enjoyed playing here and there but one I also regret paying full price for. Does that make me pathetic because I don't have glowing things to say? Accept it. Andromeda was a somewhat mediocre entry to the franchise and a large number of fans felt it didn't come close to the original trilogy. That's why it failed. Instead of taking responsibility, EA is deflecting because their poor fe fes were hurt. Or more accurately, their bottom line took a hit but they don't want to say that. Well said.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 24, 2017 19:46:33 GMT
All things considered I think the devs in the trenches put in an admirable effort since they were fighting an uphill battle dealing with the lack of direction they were given and let's not forget the lack of experience a good number of them had. It's too bad they weren't given a chance to put some of the experience they gained to work with making a couple of DLC. Regardless of what people thought of the main game the DLC would have shown what they learned and what they would have been capable of in the future. I've always criticized handing the franchise over to the bench players but it's a pity now that these bench players won't be given a chance to evolve into starters. If I was EA I would have at least given the Montreal studio a chance to finish up the DLC and see how the DLC was received before deciding what to do with the Montreal studio. Look at the DA team they have had their share of bruises over the years but they always bounced back from them. DA 2 was crapped on pretty hard by a lot of people but most people seemed to respond well to it's DLCs. DAI was generally received pretty well but it had notable flaws it's DLC were considered an overall improvement over the base game and it's last DLC is arguably one of the best DLCs bioware has had to date. The Montreal team should have at least been given the opportunity to show that they can learn and improve. The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the i ncompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. you are insulting people man. Just tell me. What is your background in programming? What do you do for a living and you are so cynical about the developers?
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Post by suikoden on Aug 24, 2017 19:50:42 GMT
The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the i ncompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. you are insulting people man. Just tell me. What is your background in programming? What do you do for a living and you are so cynical about the developers? - it's like a demo reel of ineptitude.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 24, 2017 19:51:25 GMT
The devs in the trenches animated a gun firing backwards... I agree top down management on Andromeda was horrific, but the i ncompetence was evident from the trench devs as well. you are insulting people man. Just tell me. What is your background in programming? What do you do for a living and you are so cynical about the developers? Not much of an insult when you say someone is incompetent. Montreal was a green studio with little experience and lacking in leadership, incompetence really does describe a weapon pointing backwards.
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Post by abaris on Aug 24, 2017 20:16:00 GMT
Not much of an insult when you say someone is incompetent. Montreal was a green studio with little experience and lacking in leadership, incompetence really does describe a weapon pointing backwards. I don't think that the people in Montreal are worse than the ones in Edmonton. We're talking about the ground crew here, the ones actually taming the engine and making the things work. The problems was the constantly changing leadership turning this whole production into a mess. If they'd worked on the same vision for the whole mile, I think, we would have seen a much better game.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 24, 2017 20:37:58 GMT
Not much of an insult when you say someone is incompetent. Montreal was a green studio with little experience and lacking in leadership, incompetence really does describe a weapon pointing backwards. I don't think that the people in Montreal are worse than the ones in Edmonton. We're talking about the ground crew here, the ones actually taming the engine and making the things work. The problems was the constantly changing leadership turning this whole production into a mess. If they'd worked on the same vision for the whole mile, I think, we would have seen a much better game. I was talking about the entirety of Montreal though, including the grounds crew. Would you let a backwards pistol get through? A fight scene where fists clearly aren't coming in contact with an object? I also said montreal was a green team, they pale in comparison to Edmonton or Austin because they don't have any games under their belt, they were nothing but a support studio originally. It's why I'm not surprised seeing some of these issues cause they were kind of expected from me.
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Post by abaris on Aug 24, 2017 20:43:26 GMT
I was talking about the entirety of Montreal though, including the grounds crew. Would you let a backwards pistol get through? A fight scene where fists clearly aren't coming in contact with an object? Maybe I'm a bit more lenient with glitches, since I play Bethesda games for a very long time. The flying corpses for instance are with the company since Morrowind. There's a reason why they also go by the name Bugthesda. What I'm not willing to excuse, especially in a Bioware game, is bland writing, bland characters and bland protagonist.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2017 20:53:34 GMT
I was talking about the entirety of Montreal though, including the grounds crew. Would you let a backwards pistol get through? A fight scene where fists clearly aren't coming in contact with an object? Maybe I'm a bit more lenient with glitches, since I play Bethesda games for a very long time. The flying corpses for instance are with the company since Morrowind. There's a reason why they also go by the name Bugthesda. What I'm not willing to excuse, especially in a Bioware game, is bland writing, bland characters and bland protagonist. It's funny, I found the writing to be pretty decent for the majority of the game. The problem is it was playing it safe. There were little dangerous insights to the world or really a lot of consequence in parts of the dialogue. Many characters had depth but they also didn't have political stakes in the setting, this includes Ryder. And something else that kind of resonated, the game itself is a bit cynical while ryder and the tempest crew are one of the few bastions of hope out there...a hope the majority doesnt care about.That does weigh the game down.
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ioannisdenton
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 24, 2017 21:25:04 GMT
you are insulting people man. Just tell me. What is your background in programming? What do you do for a living and you are so cynical about the developers? One doesn't have to know how to prepare the food in order to know if it tastes like shit.
(and no, I wouldn't say ME:A was shit, merely disappointing and mediocre)
Man it is insulting ti judge other people 's work this way. I doubt they wanted this launch mess and as they proved with the patches it was released early so they were not incompetent. Tell them lazy or that they rushed their product. Incopetence is a harsh world.
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Post by abaris on Aug 24, 2017 22:25:50 GMT
Man it is insulting ti judge other people 's work this way. I doubt they wanted this launch mess and as they proved with the patches it was released early so they were not incompetent. Tell them lazy or that they rushed their product. Incopetence is a harsh world. You don't have to blame them on a personal level, since they don't deserve it. Not the developers anyway. But you have to blame the companies involved and the suits running the show. For one, because it was obvious that this game was pushed out the door because of the fiscal year and - in all probability - bonusses tied to certain financial goals. Secondly because someone thought it would be a good idea to run an Origin Access promotion by prematurely letting the general public play and unfinished mess.
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