Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 10, 2017 22:12:23 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games. I disagree, I would see posts where people were asking for it. Comments were "Mass Effect 1 had open world elements, go full open world and it would be much better". Things like that were common after a release of the game.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 10, 2017 22:46:49 GMT
Those arguments became really intense after ME2 essentially abolished what little open-world ME1 had. I was in the "good thing too" camp, but plenty of others weren't. There was a pretty common and pretty silly argument that ME2 should have "built on" ME1's open-world aspect. ("Silly" because you can't build anything on the crappy OW tech ME1 used; it was arguably a sensible way to do OW on the cheap, but doesn't get you very far towards doing good OW.)
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 11, 2017 0:27:43 GMT
Yes. It is. But guess what? So is EVERY other major fanbase or fandom. It is inevitable. Have ten people in a room and chances are one of them is going to be a whiny overreacting jerk. Now boost that number into the millions and now you have an entire subculture of easily agitated people who are going to be even worse because they'll find more people who share their opinion and support their toxic neurosis.
This is the future of video game franchises, entertainment as a whole, and even global politics. The gatekeepers are gone and everyone is now part of the conversation. Unfortunately, some of those people are crazy, stupid, or willfully ignorant. Oh well. Might as well get used to it or start practicing using that ban/censor button.
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Post by PillarBiter on Oct 11, 2017 13:45:59 GMT
Yes. It is. But guess what? So is EVERY other major fanbase or fandom. It is inevitable. Have ten people in a room and chances are one of them is going to a whiny overreacting jerk. Now boost that number into the millions and know you have an entire subculture of easily agitated people who are going to be even worse because they'll more people who share their opinion and support their toxic neurosis. This is the future of video game franchises, entertainment as a whole, and even global politics. The gatekeepers are gone and everyone is now part of the conversation. Unfortunately, some of those people are crazy, stupid, or willfully ignorant. Oh well. Might as well get used to it or start practicing using that ban/censor button. Yep, you nailed it. Welcome to the age of social media, where the toxic and insecure spew hate, hide behind anonymity and try to prove whose opinion is better. Because people can't just like whatever they want, they have to tell everyone else about it and attack whoever disagrees with them. And it's just going to get worse as there are more people online and more platforms to preach with. Even better, more opportunities to make money. It's incredible how far the gaming community as a whole has fallen in the past 5 years. It's not so much how the community falls, but more that you are adopting a more mature stance, while a new influx of younger/dumber people more easily attain the ability to vocalise their idiocy through the same channels as yourself.
Once you realise that, you're more prone to the "I'll just decide for myself " stance.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Oct 11, 2017 14:33:07 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games. I disagree, I would see posts where people were asking for it. Comments were "Mass Effect 1 had open world elements, go full open world and it would be much better". Things like that were common after a release of the game. ME1 was more free roam than open world really. ME2 feltnon rails. Not saying that was a bad thing. Just what it was. Even so. A few comments on a message board dont drive development and game design. We don't have the power it seems some think we do over what the devs want.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 15:15:48 GMT
I disagree, I would see posts where people were asking for it. Comments were "Mass Effect 1 had open world elements, go full open world and it would be much better". Things like that were common after a release of the game. ME1 was more free roam than open world really. ME2 feltnon rails. Not saying that was a bad thing. Just what it was. Even so. A few comments on a message board dont drive development and game design. We don't have the power it seems some think we do over what the devs want. Comments on the message boards though also frequently are fans just following the market trends... that's how a market trend (i.e. fad) gets rolling. The truth is that both the EA execs AND the fans wanted it... so they got it. At times it seemed to me that I was the only one on the boards arguing against the open-world idea.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2017 16:35:14 GMT
Those arguments became really intense after ME2 essentially abolished what little open-world ME1 had. I was in the "good thing too" camp, but plenty of others weren't. There was a pretty common and pretty silly argument that ME2 should have "built on" ME1's open-world aspect. ("Silly" because you can't build anything on the crappy OW tech ME1 used; it was arguably a sensible way to do OW on the cheap, but doesn't get you very far towards doing good OW.) Honesty, I think ME2 would have fared better on that front if the maps weren’t so shoddily designed.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Oct 11, 2017 16:40:32 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games. I wanted open world, and I kept wanting it more and more after ME2+3. I also have my own reasonings over industry trends. It's mass effects original concept that drives me to want the open environments.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 17:25:42 GMT
Wasn't Mass Effect's original concept pretty incoherent? Shepard's job wasn't exploration in the first place.
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Post by N7Valentine on Oct 11, 2017 18:05:37 GMT
Wouldn't say that problem is just limited to ME though. Almost every fanbase on the internet is filled with "snowflakes" who love to b*tch at everything.
MEA failed because they released an unfinished game with mediocre writing. The game clearly needed more development time
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Post by mannyray on Oct 11, 2017 18:58:43 GMT
Wouldn't say that problem is just limited to ME though. Almost every fanbase on the internet is filled with "snowflakes" who love to b*tch at everything. MEA failed because they released an unfinished game with mediocre writing. The game clearly needed more development time And the triggered angry troll masses consider it empirical vindication that the game was a total 1/10, even though it's a documented fact that worse games and games as negatively received by the critics and youtube pewdiepies still got some kind of dlc. Also, based on what I've seen on the forum, the biggest haters of the game also have the worst ideas for either continuing Andromeda or staying in the Milky Way for some sort of sequel.
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Post by Superhik on Oct 11, 2017 20:05:26 GMT
Wasn't Mass Effect's original concept pretty incoherent? Shepard's job wasn't exploration in the first place. This makes it really a shame..Ryder scientist background was perfect for sci fi exploration( like ensign Kim, from Voyager). How do you make exploration of non ( mass) inhabited planets interesting anyway? Can't fill it with ruins, unique locations, there is no history/lore to discover, quests, environmental storytelling etc. You can "wow" the player for a while with interesting scenery, but that's just about it. I'll wager Star Citizen will end up with same problems. On planets, something like Last of Us, would've been better.
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Post by abedsbrother on Oct 11, 2017 21:20:21 GMT
There are a few "snowflakes," sure, but every fanbase has those. MEA simply disappointed a lot of people, and since we live in the internet age, most of them were able to express / share their opinion. It doesn't help that there are plenty of faults to pick at in MEA.
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Post by N7Valentine on Oct 12, 2017 14:51:17 GMT
Wouldn't say that problem is just limited to ME though. Almost every fanbase on the internet is filled with "snowflakes" who love to b*tch at everything. MEA failed because they released an unfinished game with mediocre writing. The game clearly needed more development time And the triggered angry troll masses consider it empirical vindication that the game was a total 1/10, even though it's a documented fact that worse games and games as negatively received by the critics and youtube pewdiepies still got some kind of dlc. Also, based on what I've seen on the forum, the biggest haters of the game also have the worst ideas for either continuing Andromeda or staying in the Milky Way for some sort of sequel. The game sadly didn't life up to the OT. But yes, there are worse games that get a pass. The internet has sealed Andromeda's fate when they turned it into memes because of the sloppy animations. "My face is tired" Seriously, who wrote that?
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 12, 2017 16:51:44 GMT
And the triggered angry troll masses consider it empirical vindication that the game was a total 1/10, even though it's a documented fact that worse games and games as negatively received by the critics and youtube pewdiepies still got some kind of dlc. Also, based on what I've seen on the forum, the biggest haters of the game also have the worst ideas for either continuing Andromeda or staying in the Milky Way for some sort of sequel. The game sadly didn't life up to the OT. But yes, there are worse games that get a pass. The internet has sealed Andromeda's fate when they turned it into memes because of the sloppy animations. "My face is tired" Seriously, who wrote that? Self-deprecation is possibly the laziest and lowest form of humor. It's also a cheap of attempting to excuse one's fuckups.
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Post by Superhik on Oct 12, 2017 17:04:51 GMT
You should check out Overwatch forums, srs even devs said they're afraid of talking with fans. And that's coming from, by a mile, most successful and popular developer in history.
Toxicity with BW games is combination of a lot of factors, over time: for one their games are more emotional, so players overreact...one way or another. Then there is being part of EA ( especially with DLC handling), blundering with gender/PR messages ( like painting a bullseye for fanatics to jump into discussion about the game and turn it a political one), poor communication with the fans, some publicity coming from their employees ( Hepler, Van Heir or whatshecalled), etc.
Wait to see what happens if Anthem gets any PvP.
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Post by PillarBiter on Oct 13, 2017 6:46:38 GMT
You should check out Overwatch forums, srs even devs said they're afraid of talking with fans. And that's coming from, by a mile, most successful and popular developer in history. Toxicity with BW games is combination of a lot of factors, over time: for one their games are more emotional, so players overreact...one way or another. Then there is being part of EA ( especially with DLC handling), blundering with gender/PR messages ( like painting a bullseye for fanatics to jump into discussion about the game and turn it a political one), poor communication with the fans, some publicity coming from their employees ( Hepler, Van Heir or whatshecalled), etc. Wait to see what happens if Anthem gets any PvP. You know, through the Bioware PR hardship we've endured over the last few years, I've kind of grown desensitized to getting excited over a game. As regrettable a fact as losing one's christmas-like happiness over virtually nothing is, it has made way for sadistical, cynical enjoyment of premature 'triggered snowflake' reactions. So there's that, at least.
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Post by Croatsky on Oct 13, 2017 8:09:54 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games. That's not fanbase I interacted with. People have begging for Open World Mass Effect game since ME1 and were especially loud about it during ME2 days. ME:A is the love letter for ME1 and ME1 fans, yet was ultimately rejected due to how bipolar BW fanbase is. Also DA:I was the game that took a lot of ideas from Skyrim. And it worked, DA:I was the greatest financial success for BioWare and won GOTY. People didn't started shitting on that game until they went rabid over the Witcher 3.
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Post by Croatsky on Oct 13, 2017 8:14:19 GMT
And the triggered angry troll masses consider it empirical vindication that the game was a total 1/10, even though it's a documented fact that worse games and games as negatively received by the critics and youtube pewdiepies still got some kind of dlc. Also, based on what I've seen on the forum, the biggest haters of the game also have the worst ideas for either continuing Andromeda or staying in the Milky Way for some sort of sequel. The game sadly didn't life up to the OT. But yes, there are worse games that get a pass. The internet has sealed Andromeda's fate when they turned it into memes because of the sloppy animations. "My face is tired" Seriously, who wrote that? BW Montreal was undergoing a merger with EA Motive before game even went Gold. Faith was sealed for ME:A before we even get to see gameplay footage. And "My face is tired" is an expression Qubecians says, you know large portion of BW Montreal staff. It is just awkwardly translated from French Canadian to English.
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Post by Croatsky on Oct 13, 2017 8:27:03 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate.If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents. Why is this put up to a debate? They outright stated they shut down the forums because no BioWare dev was visiting forums and some outright hated the forums. Since whole point of official forums is for devs and fans to have some interaction, they killed BSN. They also outright denied they made decision out of financial reasons, it is simply due to devs avoiding BSN like a plague.
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Post by Croatsky on Oct 13, 2017 8:30:52 GMT
I've been in several situations where people announced to me they were gay/bi/trans/whatever without prompting. A friend told me he was gay. But we were friends and not total strangers. I've never been in a situation where a stranger said something like that to me. People are not as open IRL then they are online. It is not even anonymity that does that, but lack of physical presence of another person gets people to be more honest and open. For better or worse. For everything, not just sexuality.
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Post by Melcara on Oct 13, 2017 10:57:45 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games. That's not fanbase I interacted with. People have begging for Open World Mass Effect game since ME1 and were especially loud about it during ME2 days. ME:A is the love letter for ME1 and ME1 fans, yet was ultimately rejected due to how bipolar BW fanbase is. Also DA:I was the game that took a lot of ideas from Skyrim. And it worked, DA:I was the greatest financial success for BioWare and won GOTY. People didn't started shitting on that game until they went rabid over the Witcher 3. It wasn't rejected just by Bioware's fanbase, it was rejected by the overall gaming community, because it was an average and disappointing game.
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Post by krighaur on Oct 13, 2017 11:09:27 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate.If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents. Why is this put up to a debate? They outright stated they shut down the forums because no BioWare dev was visiting forums and some outright hated the forums. Since whole point of official forums is for devs and fans to have some interaction, they killed BSN. They also outright denied they made decision out of financial reasons, it is simply due to devs avoiding BSN like a plague. Sorry I don't understand. I have the feeling you say the same thing as me, in a different way.
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Post by zeratul12 on Oct 13, 2017 12:09:44 GMT
Let's be clear first, this thread isn't directed to insult the true fans of the Mass Effect series. It's about all those "special" folks who are tearing the franchise and BioWare apart by screaming ME3 being a failure just because of it's ending even if the game was a masterpiece, MEA was quite decent yet they treat it as if it's an abomination. About 85% of the ME fanbase never gives BioWare a break and rips their games apart for the smallest issues, they literally want EVERY BW game to average 90+ on Metacritic and get 10's everywhere. Just recently saw IGN's review of Agents of Mayhem, despite the game being buggy and average almost 75% of the comments were urging peeps to support Volition. Never saw anyone doing the same for BioWare. Congratz BW "fans", you've successfully killed an amazing franchise. What's next? Dragon Age? Almost tried burying down a great game like DA:I since they didn't like some of the features or probably NO reason at all just to hate by giving their nonsense excuses like "SJWs", etc. I'm sure this thread will roast me alive for this... If you honestly think about this is largely similar to the Prequels vs Original Trilogy debate from Star Wars, I think if the internet was how it is now back then the Prequel trilogy would have been stopped at the first entry just like ME:A. The biggest difference is that the "fans" skewered ME:A alive what honestly wasn't a terrible game just a above average game, which apparently wasn't good enough. The game for me did not deserve the hate it got.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Oct 13, 2017 14:45:42 GMT
It wasn't good enough, people just have higher standards for ME than you do, which is totally understand since the series was always properly recognized for its greatness.
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