melbella
N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Sept 10, 2017 19:15:56 GMT
No video link but I can summarize. You know the question Ryder can ask everyone, "Why did you come to Andromeda?" ? Well, Hainly's reason for coming to Andromeda was to avoid having to explain to everyone she knew that she was now female. The irony being, of course, she immediately tells Ryder that she used to be male. So much for avoiding that convo. I don't think its about avoiding the convo. I think its about increasing one's sense of agency. She chooses to tell Ryder, not everyone around her asking why she's not male. People get to know her as the woman who incidentally was male, not the man who incidentally became female. We see this all the time with trans, with people 'misgendering' purposefully or accidentally. That her script was altered, was the irony to me
Yeah, I never had an issue with it and still think changing a dialogue that answered a specific question asked was kind of silly. But it's not a personal issue for me so.... ::shrug::
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 10, 2017 20:14:43 GMT
Let's be clear first, this thread isn't directed to insult the true fans of the Mass Effect series. It's about all those "special" folks who are tearing the franchise and BioWare apart by screaming ME3 being a failure just because of it's ending even if the game was a masterpiece, MEA was quite decent yet they treat it as if it's an abomination. About 85% of the ME fanbase never gives BioWare a break and rips their games apart for the smallest issues, they literally want EVERY BW game to average 90+ on Metacritic and get 10's everywhere. Just recently saw IGN's review of Agents of Mayhem, despite the game being buggy and average almost 75% of the comments were urging peeps to support Volition. Never saw anyone doing the same for BioWare. Congratz BW "fans", you've successfully killed an amazing franchise. What's next? Dragon Age? Almost tried burying down a great game like DA:I since they didn't like some of the features or probably NO reason at all just to hate by giving their nonsense excuses like "SJWs", etc. I'm sure this thread will roast me alive for this... I agree 100% and then people wonder why people working on the games stopped coming to visit BSN and BioWare closed down BSN Prime. That is why. Why should a company trying to make any form of media have to be constantly insulted by so-called "fans" on their own forums? I probably would done it a long time ago, but I will give BioWare some credit at least they were polite enough to give everyone a head's up that were closing their forums, I've been on other companies forums where didn't give anybody any warning (look at you IDW Publishing and TNA/Impact Wrestling) so you were pretty much screwed. To be fair most of the big developers whose forums I visit are just as bad if not worse than what BSN prime was like, and most of the fanbases had people claiming that their particular fanbase was worse than the others. If you're going to put something out there for millions of people to see and you want feedback on it, you're going to have to accept that a number of those people are going to give trash feedback and just insult you because they didn't like whatever random thing with your product. Shutting down the official forums made it that much harder for BioWare to get solid feedback so they can make their games better(which is something we should all want as even if we liked ME:A there is always room for improvement). Things like Twitter are only good for short messages, not detailed feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 22:03:08 GMT
I agree 100% and then people wonder why people working on the games stopped coming to visit BSN and BioWare closed down BSN Prime. That is why. Why should a company trying to make any form of media have to be constantly insulted by so-called "fans" on their own forums? I probably would done it a long time ago, but I will give BioWare some credit at least they were polite enough to give everyone a head's up that were closing their forums, I've been on other companies forums where didn't give anybody any warning (look at you IDW Publishing and TNA/Impact Wrestling) so you were pretty much screwed. To be fair most of the big developers whose forums I visit are just as bad if not worse than what BSN prime was like, and most of the fanbases had people claiming that their particular fanbase was worse than the others. If you're going to put something out there for millions of people to see and you want feedback on it, you're going to have to accept that a number of those people are going to give trash feedback and just insult you because they didn't like whatever random thing with your product. Shutting down the official forums made it that much harder for BioWare to get solid feedback so they can make their games better(which is something we should all want as even if we liked ME:A there is always room for improvement). Things like Twitter are only good for short messages, not detailed feedback. They closed the forums problaby because they knew their product was subpar and would be heavily criticized.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Sept 10, 2017 22:10:36 GMT
Someone with better memory than me - was the forum shutdown announcement before or after MEA was moved out to March release?
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Post by river82 on Sept 10, 2017 23:28:07 GMT
Things like Twitter are only good for short messages, not detailed feedback. Twitter's only good for circlejerking, which I assume is what Bioware wants rather than actual detailed feedback. It's been a very long time since I've seen Bioware actually eagerly embrace feedback from the fans, their recent past is filled with them only reluctantly doing so.
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Post by krighaur on Sept 11, 2017 7:36:22 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate. If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 11, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate. If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents. Whenever I hear or read the phrase "this game is shit". I automatically dismiss any so called "opinions" that person has. If they can't express it more maturely than that they don't deserve to be heard.
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Post by river82 on Sept 11, 2017 21:50:46 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate. If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents. Whenever I hear or read the phrase "this game is shit". I automatically dismiss any so called "opinions" that person has. If they can't express it more maturely than that they don't deserve to be heard. Whenever I hear the phrase "this game is the best" I automatically dismiss any so called "opinions" that person has. If they can't contain their giddiness long enough to express a sensible opinion, then they don't deserve to be heard. Same goes for "awesome", "fantastic", or pretty much any other word that carries a hint of emotion. Obviously horrible words.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 12, 2017 14:09:48 GMT
The game is shit.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Sept 12, 2017 19:08:58 GMT
They probably closed the forums because they were tired of the too exaggerated hate. If you say "I didn't like this game for X reason", and many others have a similar opinion, you have a chance to be heard. If you say "this game is shit", and some others add to the shit, you have a chance to be ignored. So the tone of the critics is important unless you are a young one who just discovered shit, pee, etc ... and use the words to provoke his/her parents. Whenever I hear or read the phrase "this game is shit". I automatically dismiss any so called "opinions" that person has. If they can't express it more maturely than that they don't deserve to be heard. Found a triggered one.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 12, 2017 23:54:58 GMT
Whenever I hear or read the phrase "this game is shit". I automatically dismiss any so called "opinions" that person has. If they can't express it more maturely than that they don't deserve to be heard. Found a triggered one. Hurr durr hurr durr
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 14, 2017 1:42:01 GMT
I agree 100% and then people wonder why people working on the games stopped coming to visit BSN and BioWare closed down BSN Prime. That is why. Why should a company trying to make any form of media have to be constantly insulted by so-called "fans" on their own forums? I probably would done it a long time ago, but I will give BioWare some credit at least they were polite enough to give everyone a head's up that were closing their forums, I've been on other companies forums where didn't give anybody any warning (look at you IDW Publishing and TNA/Impact Wrestling) so you were pretty much screwed. To be fair most of the big developers whose forums I visit are just as bad if not worse than what BSN prime was like, and most of the fanbases had people claiming that their particular fanbase was worse than the others. If you're going to put something out there for millions of people to see and you want feedback on it, you're going to have to accept that a number of those people are going to give trash feedback and just insult you because they didn't like whatever random thing with your product. Shutting down the official forums made it that much harder for BioWare to get solid feedback so they can make their games better(which is something we should all want as even if we liked ME:A there is always room for improvement). Things like Twitter are only good for short messages, not detailed feedback. BioWare listens, in fact they listened too much and should have just put a lot of people on ignore. I firmly believe the approach they took to develop Andromeda was "what do people on the forums want to see in a Mass Effect game". Going from the crappy open world design, to having a lot of plot time focused on companions and their side missions, to making sure the game had a non-class combat system, or the expected "press x to bang". I can see a lot of changes that are a result from people saying "it would improve Mass Effect" I want BioWare to make a BioWare designed Mass Effect game for that is what gave us Mass Effect 1 for they weren't giving people what they said would improve the game they were designed a game they wanted to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 2:30:51 GMT
I guess I'm a snowflake Not going to pay big cash for average. Customers/reviewers spoke and ea decided it wasn't worth dlc. Da2 which i loved got similar treatment and got dlc Disney spent a fortune on pirates of Caribbean and yet they get worse . Cincinnati bengals spend a fortune and yet don't improve. Warcraft movie flopped Saw game at pax and it held my attention for 10 seconds When I played dai on 360 I gnashed my teeth. When my dwarfs beard floated over my face and dorians face kept blobbibg out I gnashed my teeth Seriously those defending and try to convince the rest of us that we made the wrong choice are snowflakes Snowflakes write books and blame everyone but themselves for losing What happened is basically what happens when you don't listen, don't exceed/meet expectations and then insult our intelligence So, basically you're admitting that all this internet bitching people are doing lately isn't having any sort of positive effect with any of the developers in the industry because all evidence points to the products they are producing getting steadily worse. If all this internet kerfuffle was working... things would be improving rather than getting worse and worse... Therefore, I rest my case. The "triggered snowflakes" should change their tactics simply because they're proven to be ineffective... even counter productive.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Sept 14, 2017 3:07:40 GMT
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 14, 2017 4:41:19 GMT
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Post by duckley on Sept 14, 2017 18:01:38 GMT
Special snowflakes or Trolls? I have enjoyed all the ME games and have loved the DA games ...especially Origins and Inquisition. That is not to say that each of these games were perfect or not deserving of of constructive critique. So many of hhe conversations for example on this forum are rational, intelligent discussions on what is good and maybe what is less than stellar in these games, but the bottom line is no matter how terrific or mediocre the Bioware game is I have been more than very well entertained....
I am always surprised by what seems to me to be over-the-top criticism and negativity at times and I do think there may be a portion of players who harken back to the good old days of Bioware and don't care for open world etc. I was struck by how many players criticized and hated on MEA because it wasn't ME4. I do worry that it is only the hyperbole that gets heard.
What other gaming company is producing story and character driven Rpgs? Not many. I need Bioware to keep producing because I love these types of games. I sure hope the trolling haters voice gets drowned out. Constructive criticism, even handed analysis is welcome but fans who just trash are not really fans...
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Post by eireicon on Oct 3, 2017 13:23:40 GMT
Special snowflakes or Trolls? I have enjoyed all the ME games and have loved the DA games ...especially Origins and Inquisition. That is not to say that each of these games were perfect or not deserving of of constructive critique. So many of hhe conversations for example on this forum are rational, intelligent discussions on what is good and maybe what is less than stellar in these games, but the bottom line is no matter how terrific or mediocre the Bioware game is I have been more than very well entertained.... I am always surprised by what seems to me to be over-the-top criticism and negativity at times and I do think there may be a portion of players who harken back to the good old days of Bioware and don't care for open world etc. I was struck by how many players criticized and hated on MEA because it wasn't ME4. I do worry that it is only the hyperbole that gets heard. What other gaming company is producing story and character driven Rpgs? Not many. I need Bioware to keep producing because I love these types of games. I sure hope the trolling haters voice gets drowned out. Constructive criticism, even handed analysis is welcome but fans who just trash are not really fans... The over the the top negativity and tantrum like mentality in the gaming community has always been a problem, it's a shame because it's does take attention away from the rational discussions that do go on. Fortunately the gaming devs are used to this and are capable of filtering it out to get to proper feedback...........it's still a shame though, as it's beyond annoying and quite frankly embarrassing as a gamer. I found MEA decidedly average. I'm one of those ME fans who don't like the new open world (of sorts) format. The whole exploration and busy works seems more like a chore then enjoyment, but that's a "Me" thing rather then the game format being "Bad". I think the issue is nowadays allot of gamers believe if something doesn't coincide with their preference it's bad, and if someone disagree's then they're wrong, and them shouting at game dev's over the internet is them giving devs feedback as a customer. All that results is a bunch of noise that's impossible at times to wade through. Personally I hope Bioware continue doing what they're doing. I've loved playing all their games and MEA was the only one that fell short for me. I just hope we don't have to wait another decade for a ME game.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 14:33:52 GMT
Special snowflakes or Trolls? I have enjoyed all the ME games and have loved the DA games ...especially Origins and Inquisition. That is not to say that each of these games were perfect or not deserving of of constructive critique. So many of hhe conversations for example on this forum are rational, intelligent discussions on what is good and maybe what is less than stellar in these games, but the bottom line is no matter how terrific or mediocre the Bioware game is I have been more than very well entertained.... I am always surprised by what seems to me to be over-the-top criticism and negativity at times and I do think there may be a portion of players who harken back to the good old days of Bioware and don't care for open world etc. I was struck by how many players criticized and hated on MEA because it wasn't ME4. I do worry that it is only the hyperbole that gets heard. What other gaming company is producing story and character driven Rpgs? Not many. I need Bioware to keep producing because I love these types of games. I sure hope the trolling haters voice gets drowned out. Constructive criticism, even handed analysis is welcome but fans who just trash are not really fans... The over the the top negativity and tantrum like mentality in the gaming community has always been a problem, it's a shame because it's does take attention away from the rational discussions that do go on. Fortunately the gaming devs are used to this and are capable of filtering it out to get to proper feedback...........it's still a shame though, as it's beyond annoying and quite frankly embarrassing as a gamer. I found MEA decidedly average. I'm one of those ME fans who don't like the new open world (of sorts) format. The whole exploration and busy works seems more like a chore then enjoyment, but that's a "Me" thing rather then the game format being "Bad". I think the issue is nowadays allot of gamers believe if something doesn't coincide with their preference it's bad, and if someone disagree's then they're wrong, and them shouting at game dev's over the internet is them giving devs feedback as a customer. All that results is a bunch of noise that's impossible at times to wade through. Personally I hope Bioware continue doing what they're doing. I've loved playing all their games and MEA was the only one that fell short for me. I just hope we don't have to wait another decade for a ME game. Very well said about the current discourse pattern in gaming. I agree even though ME:A did not really fall short for me... I'm having a lot of fun playing it. I do still prefer the more structured design of the Trilogy to the open world games in general. I do have concerns though about the level of unnecessary stress it puts on the developers and the impacts of that filtering into the products. Developers are creative people. They deserve some "considerarte-ness" as people from their fan base, IMHO.
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Post by phoenix64 on Oct 9, 2017 16:05:41 GMT
No
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 9, 2017 16:17:35 GMT
So, firstly some sources for your statistics? Secondly, I've never met a snowflake, IRL or on here. If you are triggered by people not having the same opinion on everything, this might not be the best place to hang out. +1 to this...
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Post by mannyray on Oct 9, 2017 19:04:02 GMT
wow... i thought the bar for actual discussion was set a bit higher than this. Must have come from the swtor forums...
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 9, 2017 20:45:40 GMT
To be fair most of the big developers whose forums I visit are just as bad if not worse than what BSN prime was like, and most of the fanbases had people claiming that their particular fanbase was worse than the others. If you're going to put something out there for millions of people to see and you want feedback on it, you're going to have to accept that a number of those people are going to give trash feedback and just insult you because they didn't like whatever random thing with your product. Shutting down the official forums made it that much harder for BioWare to get solid feedback so they can make their games better(which is something we should all want as even if we liked ME:A there is always room for improvement). Things like Twitter are only good for short messages, not detailed feedback. BioWare listens, in fact they listened too much and should have just put a lot of people on ignore. I firmly believe the approach they took to develop Andromeda was "what do people on the forums want to see in a Mass Effect game". Going from the crappy open world design, to having a lot of plot time focused on companions and their side missions, to making sure the game had a non-class combat system, or the expected "press x to bang". I can see a lot of changes that are a result from people saying "it would improve Mass Effect" I want BioWare to make a BioWare designed Mass Effect game for that is what gave us Mass Effect 1 for they weren't giving people what they said would improve the game they were designed a game they wanted to. Oh yeah, I remember all those fans posting they wanted the next ME game to have procedurally generated worlds, uninteresting characters, and a limited CC. Who can forget all the posts with fans demanding that Bioware limit control of squad mates, revamp the dialogue wheel so you get 5 flavors of the same thing, and above all else, the number one thing I remember people complaining about was the games in the OT weren't buggy enough at launch and thought they should launch the next game at least 6 months before it's actually ready.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 9, 2017 21:37:47 GMT
BioWare listens, in fact they listened too much and should have just put a lot of people on ignore. I firmly believe the approach they took to develop Andromeda was "what do people on the forums want to see in a Mass Effect game". Going from the crappy open world design, to having a lot of plot time focused on companions and their side missions, to making sure the game had a non-class combat system, or the expected "press x to bang". I can see a lot of changes that are a result from people saying "it would improve Mass Effect" I want BioWare to make a BioWare designed Mass Effect game for that is what gave us Mass Effect 1 for they weren't giving people what they said would improve the game they were designed a game they wanted to. Oh yeah, I remember all those fans posting they wanted the next ME game to have procedurally generated worlds, uninteresting characters, and a limited CC. Who can forget all the posts with fans demanding that Bioware limit control of squad mates, revamp the dialogue wheel so you get 5 flavors of the same thing, and above all else, the number one thing I remember people complaining about was the games in the OT weren't buggy enough at launch and thought they should launch the next game at least 6 months before it's actually ready. People wanted open worlds which means more focus is being put on those areas and designing quest elements for those areas, so less time to develop characters unless you think people can easily handle everything you want. The character creator was at the very least no more limited then the prior games. People wanted the Paragon/Renegade system to go away because they felt that Shepard was bipoloar and wanted it to be improved, just because you don't like the implementation doesn't mean it wasn't done because people wanted it. Funny Mass Effect 2 was a mess at launch too, I remember the wall clipping bugs that still exist to this day and the spot on the Normandy that even existed into Mass Effect 3 were you would get stuck. Bugs are a major problem with open world games take a look at any of them and you will see massive bug lists, but I guess BioWare isn't allowed to have problems in their games like any other developer. Edit to add: The procedural generated planets were a fan request as well, they were going to be part of a system for the UNC planets only along side the planets we got in the final game which is what people were asking for they wanted minor planets with a couple of quests introduced back into the games and raised issues that it wasn't in Mass Effect 2 or 3.
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Post by SofNascimento on Oct 9, 2017 21:49:37 GMT
Oh yeah, I remember all those fans posting they wanted the next ME game to have procedurally generated worlds, uninteresting characters, and a limited CC. Who can forget all the posts with fans demanding that Bioware limit control of squad mates, revamp the dialogue wheel so you get 5 flavors of the same thing, and above all else, the number one thing I remember people complaining about was the games in the OT weren't buggy enough at launch and thought they should launch the next game at least 6 months before it's actually ready. Funny Mass Effect 2 was a mess at launch too No, no it wasn't. Having bugs doesn't make a game a mess. ME1 was a technical mess that could keep up a steady 30fps not for the life of it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Oct 10, 2017 15:15:56 GMT
"People" as in fans weren't asking for open world. The EA execs were, because games like Skyrim did well. They attempted to cash in on what they thought made Skyrim popular. Following market trends
W3 did the same thing. Arguably better. Although I far prefer the Bioware games.
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