danishgambit
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A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 26, 2017 13:12:30 GMT
The games have gotten some unreasonable criticism. They have also received reasonable criticism. And can we stop pretending that ME3's ending was the only bad thing about the game? And people say that folks that think ME1 was the best game are the ones wearing those rose-colored glasses...
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 26, 2017 13:13:27 GMT
Not filled, but the loudest minority of fans that still consider themselves fans do seem to be triggered snowflakes. Just as an aside, I was at the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Studios recently and there was actually a woman who was triggered by seeing a "Death Eater" cosplayer there. She went on a tirade about Death Eaters being nazis and how offensive it is for someone to pretend to be one. And she was wearing a Harry Potter outfit, so she's a fan of the series. My immediate thought was "She complains about a lack of inclusion in BioWare games because she can't romance a transgender otherkin Asari as a non-gendered Shepard with dwarfism." Then she turned around and she had the BioWare logo tattooed on her leg right next to that "all inclusive" gender symbol.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 13:53:31 GMT
South Park: The Fractured But Whole... Obsidian's not doing that game so I'm a bit wary about it Since Trey Parker and Matt Stone have complete control over the story and voices I'd find it hard for any developer to be able to screw this up. All they have to do is get the visual/mechanics down. While I'm not a fan of Ubisoft I believe their more than capable of making this a great game.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 26, 2017 14:16:34 GMT
Let's be clear first, this thread isn't directed to insult the true fans of the Mass Effect series. It's about all those "special" folks who are tearing the franchise and BioWare apart by screaming ME3 being a failure just because of it's ending even if the game was a masterpiece, MEA was quite decent yet they treat it as if it's an abomination. About 85% of the ME fanbase never gives BioWare a break and rips their games apart for the smallest issues, they literally want EVERY BW game to average 90+ on Metacritic and get 10's everywhere. Just recently saw IGN's review of Agents of Mayhem, despite the game being buggy and average almost 75% of the comments were urging peeps to support Volition. Never saw anyone doing the same for BioWare. Congratz BW "fans", you've successfully killed an amazing franchise. What's next? Dragon Age? Almost tried burying down a great game like DA:I since they didn't like some of the features or probably NO reason at all just to hate by giving their nonsense excuses like "SJWs", etc. I'm sure this thread will roast me alive for this... -(_ANTHEM_)-
Let's be clear. Priority one for the studio is "what's good for Bio?".
This game failed and got shelved for a number of reasons. Primarily, the CEO's prediction of 3M sales in the first week failed to materialize. If that was due to heavy negative criticism, then remember it came from many sources. Plus, EA made a miscalculation when granting players Early Access to a game that clearly was not ready for prime time. It showed in their comments. Magazine articles supported those comments.
In my view, it was a terminal and self inflicted wound.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 26, 2017 14:19:24 GMT
I've seen people who are upset that they're not still making games like Baldur's Gate. I can think of worse things than the complexity of Baldur's Gate coupled with todays technology. Baldur's Gate was complex?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 26, 2017 15:26:09 GMT
I can think of worse things than the complexity of Baldur's Gate coupled with todays technology. Baldur's Gate was complex? Not exactly complex. But there's a lot of noise in the AD&D system, and learning to see through it takes work.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 26, 2017 15:40:10 GMT
Baldur's Gate was complex? Not exactly complex. But there's a lot of noise in the AD&D system, and learning to see through it takes work. I know, I was being somewhat sarcastic about it.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 26, 2017 16:00:19 GMT
Yeah, I figured that. I should have let the thread get into the "yes it was" stage first.
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Post by river82 on Aug 26, 2017 21:42:30 GMT
I can think of worse things than the complexity of Baldur's Gate coupled with todays technology. Baldur's Gate was complex? Relative to modern day RPGs, yes. Relative to the guidance system on board a guided missile, no.
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JokeDealer
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 26, 2017 22:44:28 GMT
Frankly, the people who still hate Bioware for Mass Effect 3's ending need to either move on or move aside. Whether you feel justified in continuing to complain is irrelevant. If you're not happy now, then you're probably not going to be happy in another five years. It's not helping you, it's not helping me, and it certainly isn't helping Bioware. You'd have a point if Mass Effect was a one off game. It isn't and the ME3 endings still have a direct effect on the direction of any new game in the series. On top of that, people come to the series at different times. It's not 5 years ago for everybody (only 18 months for me). On top of that, a decision was made that was so hideously bad regarding the endings (BURN IT ALL! BURN IT ALL DOWN!) that people will be talking about them for years, maybe decades. Of course, people are only talking about them because what came before was so engaging. So it's a compliment of sorts. The justification is irrelevant. It may be a somewhat fresh wound for you, but that hardly changes the fact that this matter was settled five years ago. Whether you like it or not, the Extended Cut DLC was the solution we received. Bioware has even said that no further changes to the ending would be made. If a solution was given, it was unsatisfactory to some, and the developers have said that nothing would be altered any further, then what do your complaints accomplish? Continuing to express your displeasure is not going to change Mass Effect 3's ending and, as much as you claim otherwise, it doesn't have much to do with Andromeda's story, which never really references any specific details of 3's ending.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 26, 2017 23:31:08 GMT
I've seen people who are upset that they're not still making games like Baldur's Gate. I can think of worse things than the complexity of Baldur's Gate coupled with todays technology. Sure but there's a difference between thinking that would be an awesome game to see(which we call it Pillars of Eternity) and people that appear to be actively mad at BioWare for not making it. Not that it's a significant portion of the fanbase, but I have seen a few people like that over the years.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 27, 2017 3:00:10 GMT
I can think of worse things than the complexity of Baldur's Gate coupled with todays technology. Sure but there's a difference between thinking that would be an awesome game to see(which we call it Pillars of Eternity) and people that appear to be actively mad at BioWare for not making it. Not that it's a significant portion of the fanbase, but I have seen a few people like that over the years. It's not a significant portion of the fanbase, but I would say it's a significant portion of this forum at least. If you go looking through almost any thread on here, you'll find a handful of users talking about how Bioware either no longer makes the sort of games that they like or the kind of games that they were once known for. Even if one considers that to be true, other developers are making the kind of games that would likely scratch that itch, like Pillars of Eternity. Being mad at Bioware for not making the kind of game someone is used to or would prefer is ridiculous, especially when there's a good chance that another developer has already made it. Game developers are just people, and people change. It happens. I hate to sound like a broken record (although that seems to be 90% of what I do on here anyways), but the energy people spent complaining about how Bioware isn't making the game they want would be better spent supporting another developer who is making that sort of game.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 27, 2017 14:19:17 GMT
This is incredible. There is an actual religion forming around the notion that the audience is directly responsible for game development decisions.
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Post by abaris on Aug 27, 2017 14:30:27 GMT
Game developers are just people, and people change. Which got nothing to do with it. The people having made Baldur's Gate, NWN or ME1 are no longer present for their largest part. Even more so since Montreal was a new addition that only worked support before doing MEA. Which also wouldn't have been a problem if the leads hadn't changed several times over. The game didn't have one vision and one direction, but several in a row.
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 27, 2017 15:01:44 GMT
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Post by merlin217 on Aug 29, 2017 4:54:31 GMT
About 85% of the ME fanbase never gives BioWare a break and rips their games apart for the smallest issues, they literally want EVERY BW game to average 90+ on Metacritic and get 10's everywhere. Just recently saw IGN's review of Agents of Mayhem, despite the game being buggy and average almost 75% of the comments were urging peeps to support Volition. Might that be because Bioware fails to meet the tastes of a solid portion of it's fanbase anymore? Look at the earlier releases. Up until ME2, critics and players were pretty much in accord with their ratings. They varied only by one or two notches. Starting with DA2, scores started to drift wildly apart. They took a new course back in 2011 and while I don't think that DA2, ME3 or DAI have been shitty games, they are certainly very different than previous releases. With MEA they have published the first game that really failed to hook me. Not because it is outright bad, but because it's a bland mess of a game. Quantity, but as opposed to previous games lacking quality in writing and character design. It's basically a shooter where fighting takes precedence over story telling. The fighting part is pretty well done, but that's about all there is to say in it's favor. Agreed. In short, starting with 2011, Bioware, in an effort to change/innovate/draw in a new crowd, have failed to satisfy/alienated their previously established audience.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 5:07:00 GMT
I did have some issues with Andromeda and ME3 and voiced my grievances in a constructive manner.
Didn't let either game ruin me. They all have pros and cons.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 29, 2017 8:19:27 GMT
Continuing to express your displeasure is not going to change Mass Effect 3's ending and, as much as you claim otherwise, it doesn't have much to do with Andromeda's story, which never really references any specific details of 3's ending. What? The entire reason we're in Andromeda is because of the ending disaster. Do you think if the endings had made any kind of sense they would have broken the basics of their lore and common sense to relocate to another galaxy? They certainly didn't do it because they thought it was a good idea. That's how badly handled the endings were. And as you're not in charge of the internet I'll continue to point out what's wrong with the endings whenever it comes up (they're appallingly written emo teen fanfic shit that made no narrative sense and deliberately destroyed any chance of a sequel, in case you're in any doubt).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 8:33:51 GMT
Continuing to express your displeasure is not going to change Mass Effect 3's ending and, as much as you claim otherwise, it doesn't have much to do with Andromeda's story, which never really references any specific details of 3's ending. What? The entire reason we're in Andromeda is because of the ending disaster. Do you think if the endings had made any kind of sense they would have broken the basics of their lore and common sense to relocate to another galaxy? They certainly didn't do it because they thought it was a good idea. That's how badly handled the endings were. And as you're not in charge of the internet I'll continue to point out what's wrong with the endings whenever it comes up (they're appallingly written emo teen fanfic shit that made no narrative sense and deliberately destroyed any chance of a sequel, in case you're in any doubt). The ending was pathetic, agreed, but they could have destroyed the relays and still made sense of it. The problem with it from the way I see it was that the ending was a disjointed amateurish mess.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Aug 29, 2017 11:07:00 GMT
Continuing to express your displeasure is not going to change Mass Effect 3's ending and, as much as you claim otherwise, it doesn't have much to do with Andromeda's story, which never really references any specific details of 3's ending. What? The entire reason we're in Andromeda is because of the ending disaster. Do you think if the endings had made any kind of sense they would have broken the basics of their lore and common sense to relocate to another galaxy? They certainly didn't do it because they thought it was a good idea. That's how badly handled the endings were. And as you're not in charge of the internet I'll continue to point out what's wrong with the endings whenever it comes up (they're appallingly written emo teen fanfic shit that made no narrative sense and deliberately destroyed any chance of a sequel, in case you're in any doubt). To be fair, Bioware probably never intended to continue the franchise when they came up with that ending. And while I hate how the ending led us the disappointing mess that is Andromeda, Bioware didn't mess up with ME3 in terms of future titles if all they planned was a trilogy. They messed up when they decided they could still milk Mass Effect after all by going to Andromeda without any compelling plausible vision for that scenario. Whoever thought MEA was a good idea after that ending AND gave the franchise to the B team is on my shitlist. I'm one of those people who doesn't mind the ending much at all. In fact, the catalyst conversation still gives me goosebumps and I love the music. The reaper logic makes perfect sense if you accept the premise of conflict as inevitable. No gripes with that. The "solution" however is utter space magic nonsense. But I didn't really expect anything else tbh. I was only disappointed by what followed after that. A rush cheap Deus Ex Human Revolution ripoff color coded "payoff". I never desperately wanted another Mass Effect game. I knew it wouldn't end well. At least going to Andromeda means that the Milky Way and Shepard remain untainted, I can just pretend MEA never happened and continue to happily replay the MET.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 29, 2017 12:34:33 GMT
What? The entire reason we're in Andromeda is because of the ending disaster. Do you think if the endings had made any kind of sense they would have broken the basics of their lore and common sense to relocate to another galaxy? They certainly didn't do it because they thought it was a good idea. That's how badly handled the endings were. And as you're not in charge of the internet I'll continue to point out what's wrong with the endings whenever it comes up (they're appallingly written emo teen fanfic shit that made no narrative sense and deliberately destroyed any chance of a sequel, in case you're in any doubt). To be fair, Bioware probably never intended to continue the franchise when they came up with that ending. And while I hate how the ending led us the disappointing mess that is Andromeda, Bioware didn't mess up with ME3 in terms of future titles if all they planned was a trilogy. They messed up when they decided they could still milk Mass Effect after all by going to Andromeda without any compelling plausible vision for that scenario. Whoever thought MEA was a good idea after that ending AND gave the franchise to the B team is on my shitlist. I'm one of those people who doesn't mind the ending much at all. In fact, the catalyst conversation still gives me goosebumps and I love the music. The reaper logic makes perfect sense if you accept the premise of conflict as inevitable. No gripes with that. The "solution" however is utter space magic nonsense. But I didn't really expect anything else tbh. I was only disappointed by what followed after that. A rush cheap Deus Ex Human Revolution ripoff color coded "payoff". I never desperately wanted another Mass Effect game. I knew it wouldn't end well. At least going to Andromeda means that the Milky Way and Shepard remain untainted, I can just pretend MEA never happened and continue to happily replay the MET. I'm sure they didn't mean to continue after ME3 but it was still a daft decision to deliberately make it impossible within their existing lore to do so. If they'd had the courage of their convictions ME would be dead. Not that I think that would be a good thing, there are so many more stories to tell in the MW post Reaper War. But to not leave yourself a window to bring it back if the circumstances were right is simply bizarre. That's not 'art', that's idiocy.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 29, 2017 14:10:22 GMT
This is incredible. There is an actual religion forming around the notion that the audience is directly responsible for game development decisions. Are you suggesting that the audience is not directly responsible for game development decisions? Because they absolutely are. Why do you think Titanfall 2 had a Single Player campaign? Audience wanted it and complained about the lack of one for Titanfall 1. Why is Call of Duty doing WWII after years of Modern/Futuristic games? Partly due to the success of Battlefield 1, and partly due to the seemingly poor reception of Infinite Warfare. Hell, Bioware even added the ability to save 4 "favorite" profiles based on suggestions and outcry made on this very forum. Then there's the "#makejaalbi" campaign, which ultimately worked and was another example of the audience being directly responsible for a game development decision. I mean, it's pretty irrefutable to say that the audience is a huge factor in these decisions.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 29, 2017 14:56:11 GMT
This is incredible. There is an actual religion forming around the notion that the audience is directly responsible for game development decisions. Are you suggesting that the audience is not directly responsible for game development decisions? Because they absolutely are. Why do you think Titanfall 2 had a Single Player campaign? Audience wanted it and complained about the lack of one for Titanfall 1. Why is Call of Duty doing WWII after years of Modern/Futuristic games? Partly due to the success of Battlefield 1, and partly due to the seemingly poor reception of Infinite Warfare. Hell, Bioware even added the ability to save 4 "favorite" profiles based on suggestions and outcry made on this very forum. Then there's the "#makejaalbi" campaign, which ultimately worked and was another example of the audience being directly responsible for a game development decision. I mean, it's pretty irrefutable to say that the audience is a huge factor in these decisions. And none of the developers or publishers involved with those decisions bear responsibility for them, of course. I will convert immediately.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 29, 2017 15:24:23 GMT
Are you suggesting that the audience is not directly responsible for game development decisions? Because they absolutely are. Why do you think Titanfall 2 had a Single Player campaign? Audience wanted it and complained about the lack of one for Titanfall 1. Why is Call of Duty doing WWII after years of Modern/Futuristic games? Partly due to the success of Battlefield 1, and partly due to the seemingly poor reception of Infinite Warfare. Hell, Bioware even added the ability to save 4 "favorite" profiles based on suggestions and outcry made on this very forum. Then there's the "#makejaalbi" campaign, which ultimately worked and was another example of the audience being directly responsible for a game development decision. I mean, it's pretty irrefutable to say that the audience is a huge factor in these decisions. And none of the developers or publishers involved with those decisions bear responsibility for them, of course. I will convert immediately. Dude, I like some things in my mouth. Bacon. Donuts. Diet Coke. What I DON'T like in my mouth are other people's words. Read what I ACTUALLY said and don't put your dirty words in my mouth. I don't know where they've been.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 29, 2017 15:58:11 GMT
No, but clearly it's detractors are.
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