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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 28, 2017 2:08:29 GMT
A mix of linear and open world. Zones in DAI are just about right. I enjoyed exploring but as others have mentioned; more practical / interesting mini quests would make it more enjoyable.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Aug 28, 2017 2:16:12 GMT
I voted for linear (mostly thinking about Origins and Mass Effect 1 for the overall concept). If Bioware can simply not give up on the open-world concept, I would rather they compromise with the Kingdoms of Amalur approach.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 28, 2017 2:18:11 GMT
I'm less concerned with whether da4 is a collection of open maps like DAI or a series of linear maps like DAO then I am about the content in them. I find the main quest and companion content in dragon age is always good but I also want side quest quality, immersion conversations and maybe some world events to witness. Sidequests - Compelling stories: interesting plots, immersive in the way you interact with them;
- Cinematics, actually being able to see the npcs face and expression can do wonders for investing in a situation, even if's its just 2 basic over the shoulder shots;
- More dialogue options, a lot of the sidequests in inquisition were a 'accept the quest', 'inquire about the quest', 'decline the quest' setup. In origins there were more opportunities for commenting on/reacting to a situation and sometimes more than one option for accept/decline, this provided more opportunity to roleplay your character, to develop and show their personality.
- For some of the quests - Multiple ways of resolving them. Kill, Persuade, Trick, Trade, etc.
A Mothers Hope, Cammen's Lament and Lost to the Curse jump to my mind as good dragon age origins sidequests. They inform the world/story/lore, allow the PC to roleplay and have choices in them about how you handle them. Unimportant Conversations - Npcs that you talk to not to advance any quest but just to talk to them. Could be about their lives, the world around them anything.
- Makes the world more immersive, you can tell me that the city elves are oppressed or you can let me talk to one and divine that fact from the conversation, it's a good way to make the world feel alive
- Good for roleplay opportunities - through selecting dialogue options in those convos.
DAI did have some of these but not many out in their open maps, mostly skyhold characters. I feel like there were more of them in prev games, but perhaps they just stand out more because they had cinematics - being able to see the face and a little body language really does make a difference to how much a conversation stands out. eg. That random guy outside the lothering tavern who warns you about the brutes inside, all those people you talk to in origins, that pro bhelen merchant etc. Events - Things happening in the world that make it feel alive and inform the story eg. You wander into a town and a scripted event happens like a conversation or an arguement between individuals, npcs doing things, not just standing about.
- Show Don't tell story writing, allows you see/hear how things are instead of being tol in a codex
I want all of these done well and a far as I can tell that can be done regardless of what kind of map type we get, so I'm not fussed either way.
I do want better cities/towns. DAO was more successful at making Denerim feel like a city than DAI was with Val Royeux - just a few more locations placed on a dedicated map makes quite the difference. I would have gladly sacrificed the forbidden oasis for more city.
Perhaps it is best to have some maps be linear and others open as is apropos to the situation/content thats going to be in it.
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Post by Fredward on Aug 28, 2017 5:39:31 GMT
I don't want to shamble through wasted space and that's what the majority of DAI and MEA feels like unfortunately.
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merlin217
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Post by merlin217 on Aug 28, 2017 7:47:41 GMT
I'm ok with all of them as long as they're done right. Who could actually refuse a good open world like TW3, HZD or Frostback Basin, and we all know linear also works really well from other games, so yes if it is good I'll take it. Although this discussion seems pointless since we know they're going with open world again. Lets hope it will be a good one. AHHH the good old frostback basin. That was when Bioware convinced me they CAN make an open world map work. It just takes more resources and work.
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Aug 28, 2017 7:53:19 GMT
Dragon Age Origins style. Bioware don't know how to do good open world segments and how to tell an interesting story in them.
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Post by witchcocktor on Aug 28, 2017 8:37:00 GMT
Sandbox would be interesting in that it would be all about creating your own story and character, and doing things at your own pace, mostly.. but I don't think DA will go that route.
I'm going with linear, with a few larger open-worldish '' main hubs '' that you can explore.
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fchopin
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Post by fchopin on Aug 28, 2017 9:05:30 GMT
I would love to vote for Open World but the truth is Bioware does not know how to make open world games so voted for Linear.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 15:41:02 GMT
I was just watching a Youtube video that suggested it was. I haven't been keeping up with the news...please tell me this isn't a thing.
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Post by witchcocktor on Aug 28, 2017 15:49:56 GMT
You'd think after the criticism on DA:I and ME:A they'd stray away from open world but time will tell, huh. With that said, I don't think DA4 is even far enough in development for these kind of questions to be answerable.. or is it? Huh?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 15:51:41 GMT
I was just watching a Youtube video that suggested it was. I haven't been keeping up with the news...please tell me this isn't a thing. We don't know. Cryptic is BioWare's middle name, so chances are we won't know till the game is released how the world and quests are really organized. I refuse to believe it is as bad as Inquisition.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Aug 28, 2017 15:55:56 GMT
The game hasn't even been announced yet, so we really don't know much (if anything) at this point.
If I had to guess, they will keep open world and try to improve it. Possibly they will scale back the size or number of the zones so they can make each better.
As for what I would like, I'd rather they return to the more linear path of their pre-DAI games. I think that plays much more to their strengths (story, characters, interesting choices, replayability) than open world does. Not that it can't be done with open world, but it requires a lot more effort.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 16:01:03 GMT
Urgh I really hope it won't be. Of all the things you'd think they'd have learnt from Inquisition it would be players fatigue with open world. Which was then made worse with Andromeda. But then if EA wants it then EA gets it. It's all Skyrim's fault.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 28, 2017 16:02:38 GMT
I would bank on Bioware following the same semi-open world model as in DAI, as opposed to a fully open world like Grand Theft Auto V.
I think the model will be greatly improved, however. Bioware won't have to adapt DA4 for the old generation of consoles and they've heard ample feedback that the quality of side quests was lacking.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 28, 2017 16:05:10 GMT
Urgh I really hope it won't be. Of all the things you'd think they'd have learnt from Inquisition it would be players fatigue with open world. Which was then made worse with Andromeda. But then if EA wants it then EA gets it. It's all Skyrim's fault. It's ironic..I just finished Lost Legacy over the weekend and it was a nice change of pace from the open world formula that the industry seems to be in. It's ironic, because I remember that linear games were that "fatigue" problem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 16:08:30 GMT
Urgh I really hope it won't be. Of all the things you'd think they'd have learnt from Inquisition it would be players fatigue with open world. Which was then made worse with Andromeda. But then if EA wants it then EA gets it. It's all Skyrim's fault. It's ironic..I just finished Lost Legacy over the weekend and it was a nice change of pace from the open world formula that the industry seems to be in. It's ironic, because I remember that linear games were that "fatigue" problem. Swings and roundabouts I guess. <--- that might be a very English saying that no one else understands. I love Deus Ex Human Revolutions linear story, the pace pushes you forward thru the game and builds up the tension. I love that personally, open world usually ends up as 'wandering around doing nowt'.
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Post by Fredward on Aug 28, 2017 16:16:35 GMT
I'd like for them to go tighter and denser but I wouldn't hold my breath honestly, I feel like the openish world is here to stay.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 28, 2017 16:34:16 GMT
Merged discussion about open world/setting.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 28, 2017 16:48:10 GMT
I said Open World, but I would prefer something with a more focused and tightly designed Open World than we've been getting, coupled with more linear missions.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 28, 2017 16:49:45 GMT
DAI was GOTY, so more of the same, I guess... (but with much better side content please)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 17:08:39 GMT
Considering how BW's open world games have turned out, I would prefer a structure more like DAO or DA2, where most areas remain accessible outside of story missions (unlike MET, where many mission areas become inaccessible). However, I prefer the MET approach over the sprawling, filler-saturated open worlds of DAI and MEA, where fetch quests appear in my quest log just because I happen to talk to the wrong NPC (contrasted with TW3, where I can choose to accept minor quests or not after reading descriptions on notice boards, avoiding all that crud filling up my quest journal). That said, I don't think open world is the problem in and of itself. As many have said, the problem with open world in DAI and MEA is BW's execution of it. I know some people say MEA is an improvement over DAI because the quests are more relevant to the protagonist's role, but I honestly feel that's only technically true, because Ryder's job description is so broad. A quest that says, "go scan these plants that are scattered all over the goddamn map because we need ingredients for beer," is just as boring to me as a quest that says, "go collect these random objects so we can make tents for our soldiers." Put quests like this on the Chantry board, so that I can read a description, see the promised reward, and then choose to accept or reject it. And if I choose to accept it, but then decide I'd rather not bother, let me clear (or maybe just hide) the quest from my journal. Exactly so. The DAI's fetch/gathering quests were not only boring but even illogical. The MEA's similar quests were only boring. Such an improvement! For me the improvement of MEA is that there are simply less areas; areas are not locked out by operations; each area has a storyline specific to it that takes you around; the vaults are so much better than the rifts and there is no reason to bother with quests that are just filler. MEA is just more interesting and way less frustrating to me.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 28, 2017 17:27:24 GMT
I put this poll up because I had a general feeling that a majority of the community wanted the next Dragon Age game to be linear BECAUSE they're worried it's affecting Biowares ability to tell a good story. If Bioware can pull off a great story, while also being open world, more power to them. I voted Open World specifically because it seems to affect BioWare's ability to tell a good story. Because telling a story should not be their objective. They should be trying to give us an environment and freedom with which we can build our own stories. I want to point to ME3 as the best example of what not to do, but if ever I complain about ME3 people think it's the ending that was the problem, when in fact the ending was the only good part of that game. ME3 failed because it tried to create an emotional connection between Shepard and the in-game events, and that can't ever work. The player always needs to be the source of such a thing. Worse, the game insisted that emotional journey follow a pre-defined path, effectively eliminating any agency for the player at all. BioWare's RPGs are best when they allow the player to make choices on behalf of the protagonist, including deciding what the protagonist cares about. DAI did that pretty well. DAO did that very well. But BioWare hasn't done it exceptionally well since KotOR and NWN.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 28, 2017 17:40:26 GMT
I picked DA:O/DAII. Screw even trying a skyrim approach and DA:I was a CHORE to play because it was an open world done wrong. Bioware can't do open world in a good way, and what worked before worked, never fix what isn't broken.
My issues with DA going open world is filler content, paces the story out to much and DA has never been about exploration to begin with. I can understand mass effect doing it cause that was part of its concept when it first began but DA? No. I feel they could make more quality environments that are memorable if they didn't have to bother with making other environments so large, not to mention no one likes going to 3 deserts 😑
Imagine what Val roix whatever it's called could've looked like had they put more time into that rather than making the hissing wastes. I feel inquisition was a victim of "make the world first, then fill it in last" when I think it should be the other way around. Make the content and quests first, and build around it, constrict it too so that I'm not running across 30 miles of plain just to get to a quest, the back and fourth was awful!
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Wulfram
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Post by Wulfram on Aug 28, 2017 19:14:26 GMT
For me, BG2 and DAO had the right balance of open-ness vs linearity. Though a Dragon Age that took an approach like ME2, with the emphasis on high quality, linear, side quests, could be interesting too
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tatarforas
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Post by tatarforas on Aug 28, 2017 20:35:10 GMT
I thought DAI struck a good balance between large environments while still keeping things fairly linear, really the only thing I want them to add to all the various regions in the next game is day and night cycles.
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