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Post by midnight tea on Sept 11, 2017 18:50:24 GMT
Thanks for the info So yeah, it looks like the only thing left is the follow up to DAI. I have to wonder if (to hold starving fans over - and make some money if they may not repeat history, make a bridge game like DA2 that sets things up and ties off last bit of unfinished business with Solas, launching us properly into the next title without any baggage. I would love a well done bridge title that would retail at 39.95 and be smaller than DAI, more like Awakening expansion to get things moving. Would anyone else want this, so the 3 years until DA4 would not be as painful? If we get any bridge, it likely wouldn't be like a smaller version of a major installment, but game like the Last Court, maybe some tactical game we were teased with or some mobile app...
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 12, 2017 5:12:16 GMT
Why do people keep thinking that Hawke was meant to be the star of Inquisition? Cassandra might have maintained that is why they were looking for Hawke in DAI but the end of DA2 makes it quite clear that both Hawke and the Warden are missing and Leliana implies there is some sort of sinister connection between the two. Cassandra's assertion in DAI was just a rather poor attempt to cover up the lack of continuity with the end of DA2. That is the real problem. Originally there was meant to be a DLC called Exalted March which tied off the Hawke story and to some extent the mage/Templar conflict. Then because of the poor reception for DA2, that got cancelled and as a consequence the mage/Templar conflict carried over into the beginning of Inquisition. In the interim the novel Asunder was released which shifted the responsibility for causing the conflict from Anders/Hawke to the events at the White Spire, with Fiona suddenly assuming the role of Grand Enchanter (which made no sense to me whatsoever). There was contradictory information about Fiona's reasons for leaving the Wardens as well. In Asunder she claimed she deliberately left and returned to the Circle system with a view to causing trouble. In Inquisition she maintained she left the Wardens because they were being mean to her. What I do feel is that Hawke's contact was originally meant to be the Hero of Ferelden, which would then have tied in with the declaration by Leliana at the end of DA2. As it was, we had the rather odd idea of the Warden suddenly heading off into the West on some wild goose chase looking for a cure for the taint, whilst it would seem that Leliana knew where they were all the time, so making a nonsense of the end of DA2. Not only that but if you romanced Leliana then at the end of Trespasser the Warden is back with her, without any indication of whether their mission was successful or not. If you romanced Morrigan then she said she was going to join him but if you romanced Alistair or Zevran then presumably their Warden is still somewhere out west. What I would like to see in the next game is some proper tying off of various plotlines that were left hanging. The Warden searching for a cure was one, the other was the alleged trouble at Weishauppt, which seemed sinister at the end of DAI, but was largely ignored in Trespasser, with just some cryptic comment from Varric, and also entirely disproved by the events in the novel The Last Flight. Sorry, didn't notice this first time around. Main thing is because Hawke's existence only makes sense if they were intending for the character to be a reoccurring protagonist for multiple games. Only reason you make a character like that - set name, set race, easily categorized personality choices, a default look made to be iconic rather than generic, is so that they can come back. They needed a Shepard and they came up with Hawke. I've had this opinion for long before Inquisition was released and we get the line of dialogue from Cassandra saying that Hawke is meant to be the Inquisitor. I've seen reports making the claim that Hawke was intended to be the playable character before getting scrapped but I can't speak to the legitimacy of their sources. But at the end of the day it comes down to one simple reason; it just makes logical, narrative sense that Exalted March would have been a set up for Hawke becoming the Inquisitor rather than tying off Hawke's story. Not to mention that the entire plotline of Inquisition makes a lot more sense and carries a lot more emotional weight if Hawke is in the Main Character position with Corypheus being the big bad; they have built in history that would make the whole business come off as a lot more natural than the conflict between Corypheus and the Inquisitor being built around the Inquisitor stumbling into a room at the wrong moment. Hawke has a stronger connection to the Mage/Templar story, hell, Hawke has a stronger connection to the Grey Warden arc due to their history with Anders and potentially having a sibling in the Wardens, not to mention, again, the Corypheus connection. The only plotline they don't have a strong tie into is the Orlesian Civil War, and even then, that builds into Morrigan's introduction and Hawke does have history with Flemeth that would make that stronger than what we get with the Inquisitor. So, yeah, that's why I think that. Can't speak for anyone else.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Sept 13, 2017 23:43:43 GMT
Cause they are waiting my OK.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 14, 2017 2:34:33 GMT
Why do people keep thinking that Hawke was meant to be the star of Inquisition? Cassandra might have maintained that is why they were looking for Hawke in DAI but the end of DA2 makes it quite clear that both Hawke and the Warden are missing and Leliana implies there is some sort of sinister connection between the two. Cassandra's assertion in DAI was just a rather poor attempt to cover up the lack of continuity with the end of DA2. That is the real problem. Originally there was meant to be a DLC called Exalted March which tied off the Hawke story and to some extent the mage/Templar conflict. Then because of the poor reception for DA2, that got cancelled and as a consequence the mage/Templar conflict carried over into the beginning of Inquisition. In the interim the novel Asunder was released which shifted the responsibility for causing the conflict from Anders/Hawke to the events at the White Spire, with Fiona suddenly assuming the role of Grand Enchanter (which made no sense to me whatsoever). There was contradictory information about Fiona's reasons for leaving the Wardens as well. In Asunder she claimed she deliberately left and returned to the Circle system with a view to causing trouble. In Inquisition she maintained she left the Wardens because they were being mean to her. What I do feel is that Hawke's contact was originally meant to be the Hero of Ferelden, which would then have tied in with the declaration by Leliana at the end of DA2. As it was, we had the rather odd idea of the Warden suddenly heading off into the West on some wild goose chase looking for a cure for the taint, whilst it would seem that Leliana knew where they were all the time, so making a nonsense of the end of DA2. Not only that but if you romanced Leliana then at the end of Trespasser the Warden is back with her, without any indication of whether their mission was successful or not. If you romanced Morrigan then she said she was going to join him but if you romanced Alistair or Zevran then presumably their Warden is still somewhere out west. What I would like to see in the next game is some proper tying off of various plotlines that were left hanging. The Warden searching for a cure was one, the other was the alleged trouble at Weishauppt, which seemed sinister at the end of DAI, but was largely ignored in Trespasser, with just some cryptic comment from Varric, and also entirely disproved by the events in the novel The Last Flight. *snip* Main thing is because Hawke's existence only makes sense if they were intending for the character to be a reoccurring protagonist for multiple games. Only reason you make a character like that - set name, set race, easily categorized personality choices, a default look made to be iconic rather than generic, is so that they can come back. They needed a Shepard and they came up with Hawke. *snip* Not the only reason, you'd also do it to facilate a personal story based a lot around a pcs family, which is what da2 is, and to save on resources, which given da2's rushed development was important. The iconic look is just useful for marketing. Personally I lean more toward Hawke not originally being meant to be the pc of the third game. Dev comments have stated that Hawke was meant to have a big expansion and that when this was cancelled those plotlines were folded into DAI. They've also said that inquisition was originally supposed to be longer/have more in it. All of this sounds to me not like Hawke was meant to be the Inquisitor, but that the inquisitor had to do hawkes remaining quests and by losing time to doing that lost out on the end/some of their own plotline. So whilst some of the plot in inquisition may make more sense being done by hawke, that doesn't mean the inquisitor plotline was meant to be done by them. There is Cassandra's line about looking for Hawke to make them Inquisitor, but this occurs in DAI after the rewrites. I don't feel like it quite matches up with da2, neither with the manner of Cassandra's interrogation of Varric or with her and Leliana investigating the disapearance of both the Warden and Hawke. I'm guessing the original reason was dropped with the expansion requiring them to write a a new one. Of course this is all just subjective feeling based on little information - we'll never know for sure either way unless a dev straight up tells us.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 14, 2017 5:13:49 GMT
And frankly I won't believe a word they say unless they confirm it. Maybe that's just stubborn, unfair, and borderline conspiratorial on my part, but I'd be far more inclined to believe that any dev saying that Hawke wasn't supposed to be a reoccurring protagonist for multiple games was lying to cover up for the fact they panicked so badly in the wake of DA2's disappointing, mixed reaction that they ended up changing their plans so dramatically. This isn't anything personal against the individual devs, but I don't trust any game developer, any author, any writer, any show runner, or any director to give fully honest answers for why they do anything.
Now, to be clear, I do think it's a change that got made very early into DAI's overall production, but I do believe that at least during DA2's production when the plot was written and the outline for DA3 was being laid out, the intent was for Hawke to be the protagonist of both. And I also imagine that the decision was also at least somewhat motivated by them also deciding to cancel Exalted Marches - which they claim they did because they wanted to get an early start on working with Frostbite. So them going "This is a character that is not well received and we're not going to get to release the part of the story that explains how they get put into the position they're going to need to be in, anyway, so let's go another way."
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Sept 14, 2017 12:17:30 GMT
Thanks for the info So yeah, it looks like the only thing left is the follow up to DAI. I have to wonder if (to hold starving fans over - and make some money if they may not repeat history, make a bridge game like DA2 that sets things up and ties off last bit of unfinished business with Solas, launching us properly into the next title without any baggage. I would love a well done bridge title that would retail at 39.95 and be smaller than DAI, more like Awakening expansion to get things moving. Would anyone else want this, so the 3 years until DA4 would not be as painful? After what happened with MEA I'd rather they just focus on DA4 and get the damn thing right so it dosen't fail. I don't think Bioware can afford to fail like MEA did. I like MEA but it can't have the mess going on behind the scenes that ended up shooting MEA's chances in the foot. So DA4 needs to be done right from the get go. So I would say just be patient and wait for it. I wouldn't want bridge titles mostly because it would only take resources away from where they're needed.
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 14, 2017 14:42:04 GMT
This week Dishonored 2 expansion pack comes out as a standalone bridge product. This is an interesting model, it focuses on special characters that needed screen time, plus it sets up future content. I'm guessing Trespasser didn't take a great deal of time to make, and if we all would be happy with something maybe around twice that size (still smaller than another full game) they could use some of the things they developed to give us basically and excellent bridge to the next title without taking away too much from other things . . .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 14:48:55 GMT
Well, they release SWTOR chapter by chapter now to entice subscriptions. But I think they can sell a 10 hr product for $16 only so often. I would not mind a yearly adventure pack while we wait, but I do not want it to be a game in instalments. It is something I hope the companies might eventually consider given how much time passes between the sequels.
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Post by Joey on Sept 15, 2017 4:09:28 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? They've obviously got a lot behind Anthem, and Mike reiterated that it's the priority for BW Edmonton right now.So yeah, it's just the situation they find themselves in. Now that the Montreal studio has merged with Motive, and Anthem has been delayed, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. ew I'm so pissed off with the fact I have to wait so long for a game from a genre I like (rpg w/o set character), while I have like 2137 multiplayer games to choose instead of Anthem.
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 16, 2017 6:28:51 GMT
Sadly it's the trend in gaming right now. Multiplayer makes more money through loot shops and monthly fees.
Epic single player stories come once or twice a decade. DAO was almost 10 years ago now. Witcher 3 hold the current crown.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 16, 2017 7:04:29 GMT
Sadly it's the trend in gaming right now. Multiplayer makes more money through loot shops and monthly fees. Epic single player stories come once or twice a decade. DAO was almost 10 years ago now. Witcher 3 hold the current crown. DAI was in 2014. MEA was released this year. You may not like those, but those were 'epic single player stories' by all accounts. (oh, plus HZD, Nier:Automata and so on, from other game developers)
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 16, 2017 7:07:43 GMT
Sadly it's the trend in gaming right now. Multiplayer makes more money through loot shops and monthly fees. Epic single player stories come once or twice a decade. DAO was almost 10 years ago now. Witcher 3 hold the current crown. DAI was in 2014. MEA was released this year. You may not like those, but those were 'epic single player stories' by all accounts. (oh, plus HZD, Nier:Automata and so on, from other game developers) What I meant by epic was "truly great". None of the games you listed can fall into that category. Those games are rare.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 16, 2017 7:12:13 GMT
DAI was in 2014. MEA was released this year. You may not like those, but those were 'epic single player stories' by all accounts. (oh, plus HZD, Nier:Automata and so on, from other game developers) What I meant by epic was "truly great". None of the games you listed can fall into that category. Those games are rare. None of those games fall into that category... for you. And it's hard to expect game developers to follow your personal criteria.
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Post by N7Valentine on Sept 16, 2017 11:48:44 GMT
My guess for a DA4 release would be somewhere in late 2018/early-mid 2019, depends on how many from BW work on the game right now
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Post by merlin217 on Sept 18, 2017 5:01:38 GMT
And frankly I won't believe a word they say unless they confirm it. Maybe that's just stubborn, unfair, and borderline conspiratorial on my part, but I'd be far more inclined to believe that any dev saying that Hawke wasn't supposed to be a reoccurring protagonist for multiple games was lying to cover up for the fact they panicked so badly in the wake of DA2's disappointing, mixed reaction that they ended up changing their plans so dramatically. This isn't anything personal against the individual devs, but I don't trust any game developer, any author, any writer, any show runner, or any director to give fully honest answers for why they do anything. Now, to be clear, I do think it's a change that got made very early into DAI's overall production, but I do believe that at least during DA2's production when the plot was written and the outline for DA3 was being laid out, the intent was for Hawke to be the protagonist of both. And I also imagine that the decision was also at least somewhat motivated by them also deciding to cancel Exalted Marches - which they claim they did because they wanted to get an early start on working with Frostbite. So them going "This is a character that is not well received and we're not going to get to release the part of the story that explains how they get put into the position they're going to need to be in, anyway, so let's go another way." Yep! In the way that the whole game was formatted, he was clearly going to be a long-running protagonist. But just like things unfold in unexpected ways in development, fate take unexpected turns in Thedas as well. Seeing Hawke, the one who many believed will end up filling the role of an 'inquisitor', ultimately sacrificing himself for the cause of the Inquisitor(in my playthrough), is actually a pretty interesting development. And the reaction from Varric is so beautifully heartbreaking that I grew very attached to this timeline. At least that's how I rationalised the change.
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 18, 2017 15:45:46 GMT
What I meant by epic was "truly great". None of the games you listed can fall into that category. Those games are rare. None of those games fall into that category... for you. And it's hard to expect game developers to follow your personal criteria. I disagree. Games that fall into that category are largely agreed on by a large following. You'd find few who dispute DAO, Mass Effect, or Witcher 3 as some of the best gaming masterpeices of their respective times and genres. Lord of the Rings is not an epic piece of literature simply because I personally enjoy it.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 18, 2017 15:54:11 GMT
None of those games fall into that category... for you. And it's hard to expect game developers to follow your personal criteria. I disagree. Games that fall into that category are largely agreed on by a large following. You'd find few who dispute DAO, Mass Effect, or Witcher 3 as some of the best gaming masterpeices of their respective times and genres. Lord of the Rings is not an epic piece of literature simply because I personally enjoy it. The people largely agreeing and with a large following also agree that HZD and Nier: Automata belongs to the crowd of apparent greats, while DAI was critically and commercially successful by all accounts. Besides - you yourself said that the games you mentioned are 'rare' so it's hard to expect for any publisher produce those rare gems. Otherwise epic becomes a standard. Also - Lord OF The Rings ain't just 'an epic piece of literature' - it holds its place in people's memory by being the first book of its kind to achieve mainstream popularity. DAO, for example, is a bit that way too.
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Post by aionis on Sept 18, 2017 21:53:15 GMT
All I know is that after the disaster fest that was Andromeda, sadly. They better put their FOOT and all into DA4. Hopefully development is going great with it.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 18, 2017 21:55:57 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? How do we know the game isn't in development right now and they're just keeping quiet about it?
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 19, 2017 0:00:26 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? How do we know the game isn't in development right now and they're just keeping quiet about it? Why would they? At this point, wouldn't Bioware be desperate to get more people interested in their products again?
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 19, 2017 0:25:27 GMT
How do we know the game isn't in development right now and they're just keeping quiet about it? Why would they? At this point, wouldn't Bioware be desperate to get more people interested in their products again? ... Because Anthem? Also, it's not like they're keeping totally quiet. Considering that details (duh, not even details but very vague stuff aside from its codename) for Anthem leaked very shortly before the game's E3 reveal and that they achieved similar thing for MEA, we do know that Bioware can keep a secret. And DA devs keep winking at us so hard and fast, you'd think that their eyelids would just detach and flutter away like hummingbirds. All we lack is official announcement, really.
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 19, 2017 0:54:26 GMT
Why would they? At this point, wouldn't Bioware be desperate to get more people interested in their products again? ... Because Anthem? Also, it's not like they're keeping totally quiet. Considering that details (duh, not even details but very vague stuff aside from its codename) for Antheam leaked very shortly before the game's E3 reveal and that they achieved similar thing for MEA, we do know that Bioware can keep a secret. And DA devs keep winking at us so hard and fast, you'd think that their eyelids would just detach and flutter away like hummingbirds. All we lack is official announcement, really. Anthem looks good now, but is getting backlash for ripping off Destiny and drawing people and resources away from Andromeda. Even if the game succeeds, Bioware still has work ahead if they want to regain customer trust. If they had any DA4 tidbits to draw people in, it couldn't hurt.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 19, 2017 1:04:51 GMT
... Because Anthem? Also, it's not like they're keeping totally quiet. Considering that details (duh, not even details but very vague stuff aside from its codename) for Antheam leaked very shortly before the game's E3 reveal and that they achieved similar thing for MEA, we do know that Bioware can keep a secret. And DA devs keep winking at us so hard and fast, you'd think that their eyelids would just detach and flutter away like hummingbirds. All we lack is official announcement, really. Anthem looks good now, but is getting backlash for ripping off Destiny and drawing people and resources away from Andromeda. Even if the game succeeds, Bioware still has work ahead if they want to regain customer trust. If they had any DA4 tidbits to draw people in, it couldn't hurt. Which AAA games doesn't suffer from backlash of some sort? People can't find faults in game yet, so they'll be inventing some other reason to harp about. As for 'if they had any DA4 tidbits to draw people in, it couldn't hurt'... not sure about that. It may as well hype up people so much that the crash with reality will provide eve more backlash. Plus, there are contract, legal and revenue issues that likely surround the official announcement of games, Mark Darrah mentions that sometimes on his twitter.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Sept 19, 2017 3:56:18 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? How do we know the game isn't in development right now and they're just keeping quiet about it? That's what Bethesda did with Fallout 4. They announced the game a few months before it was released.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 19, 2017 4:19:12 GMT
How do we know the game isn't in development right now and they're just keeping quiet about it? That's what Bethesda did with Fallout 4. They announced the game a few months before it was released. Apparently that's the new, fashionable way to market things.
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