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Post by brandoftime on Sept 7, 2017 1:46:46 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what?
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 7, 2017 1:57:59 GMT
We can blame it on Adromeda. Dragon Age and Mass Effect have always had alternating releases. Just business. They know the majority of buyers are fans of both franchises.
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Post by phoray on Sept 7, 2017 2:35:45 GMT
We can blame it on Adromeda. Dragon Age and Mass Effect have always had alternating releases. Just business. They know the majority of buyers are fans of both franchises. Then it doesn't matter when they release, because they know they'd make a sale either way. It's about new players with limited budgets and/or only one game at a time mentality. These games take people a month or more to finish. EA has their yearly release companies. And then they have their high quality every 5 years companies. That way they can rake in money from pretty much everyone that plays video games.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 7, 2017 3:09:53 GMT
Being rather uninformed on the subject, myself, I would imagine that Anthem is actually to blame. From what I recall it seemed to be a pretty "all hands on deck" project which is part of why Andromeda got handed off to a rookie team.
It's also possible that they took stock and realized that some of the problems that DA2 and DAI had were caused by them rushing into development and locking things down before they had time to actually review the criticism from Origins and then DA2. I forget which one but as I recall one of those games actually entered in development before it's predecessor was even released. And to this day I am convinced that a significant part of DAI's problems stem from it originally being meant to star Hawke as the PC only for them to shift gears partway through development due to backlash over DA2, and was further complicated by DA2's various DLC's being cut and having to be worked into DAI's story.
I imagine they would have wanted to avoid those complications by, if nothing else, actually managing to get all the DLC they wanted for the game released so they knew what plotlines would and wouldn't have to be covered in the sequel.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 7, 2017 3:10:26 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? The majority (like ~70% IIRC) of the DA Team is working on Anthem (at least as of Dec. that was the case), with the rest helping out on Andromeda. Pulling the DA Team to help on Andromeda wasn't the plan according to Aaryn, but they needed help so it had to be done. But according to Alexis, after MEA wrapped up the DA Team started to grow. Prior to that, they just had a small team in pre-prod. So I'm guessing at least 30% of the team is working on it now. I know they have ~15 job postings as well, so they're building a little on that as well. They might be outsourcing some work as well, maybe... They've obviously got a lot behind Anthem, and Mike reiterated that it's the priority for BW Edmonton right now. So yeah, it's just the situation they find themselves in. Now that the Montreal studio has merged with Motive, and Anthem has been delayed, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 7, 2017 13:04:19 GMT
Maybe they could release two titles in the same year? Anthem is so different than DA, not RPG so I'm hoping they would consider not holding back DA4 just to roll out a game that may be a large gamble. Especially with Bungie's new product so recent.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 7, 2017 14:34:48 GMT
Maybe they could release two titles in the same year? Anthem is so different than DA, not RPG so I'm hoping they would consider not holding back DA4 just to roll out a game that may be a large gamble. Especially with Bungie's new product so recent. I'm not really worried about Anthem, which is still at least another year away (probably Nov. 2018), so there's plenty of breathing room between it and D2. I don't see them putting two titles out in either the same calendar or financial year though. I think they'll want to space that revenue out some. Also, you probably don't want to potentially compete with yourself for GotY. At any rate, it doesn't sound like DA4 is far enough along in development for a 2018 release (and I'd argue even a 2019 release), so it's largely moot...
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Post by IllustriousT on Sept 7, 2017 14:41:19 GMT
Maybe they could release two titles in the same year? Anthem is so different than DA, not RPG so I'm hoping they would consider not holding back DA4 just to roll out a game that may be a large gamble. Especially with Bungie's new product so recent. I agree. I think many of the articles that start off describing Anthem as "Destiny-like" already has the system working against it. These days, it seems to me that comparing a game to another is not the way to start off. Destiny is built for long term enjoyment, therefore Destiny players will continue to play Destiny - or not, but that also doesn't mean they will move on to Anthem, the "next Destiny." I am not a Destiny fan, but I am a Souls fan - and I always roll my eyes and sigh when a new game is announced as "Souls like" because it never will be a Souls game. It should be its own thing - and let me play initially without any pretenses because that just leads to disappointment. Disappointment that would not have existed without the comparisons. In any case, DA4 and Anthem may share some of the fanbase, but Bioware is taking a risk. After MEA, I do hope it pays off, but the more I hear how its "Destiny-like" the more I am turned off by it - otherwise, I would go ahead and play Destiny. I am into instant gratification.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 7, 2017 19:00:32 GMT
Maybe they could release two titles in the same year? Anthem is so different than DA, not RPG so I'm hoping they would consider not holding back DA4 just to roll out a game that may be a large gamble. Especially with Bungie's new product so recent. I'm not really worried about Anthem, which is still at least another year away (probably Nov. 2018), so there's plenty of breathing room between it and D2. I don't see them putting two titles out in either the same calendar or financial year though. I think they'll want to space that revenue out some. Also, you probably don't want to potentially compete with yourself for GotY. At any rate, it doesn't sound like DA4 is far enough along in development for a 2018 release (and I'd argue even a 2019 release), so it's largely moot... I wouldn't be surprised if Anthem got delayed to Spring 2019. Anthem can't have the same success as MEA. Also, we don't know when DA4 actually started dev. Anthem was being worked on at the same time with MEA. I believe Anthem was supposed to be announced either at the VGA's or or next year if MEA was successful.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 7, 2017 23:52:15 GMT
I'm not really worried about Anthem, which is still at least another year away (probably Nov. 2018), so there's plenty of breathing room between it and D2. I don't see them putting two titles out in either the same calendar or financial year though. I think they'll want to space that revenue out some. Also, you probably don't want to potentially compete with yourself for GotY. At any rate, it doesn't sound like DA4 is far enough along in development for a 2018 release (and I'd argue even a 2019 release), so it's largely moot... I wouldn't be surprised if Anthem got delayed to Spring 2019. Anthem can't have the same success as MEA. Also, we don't know when DA4 actually started dev. Anthem was being worked on at the same time with MEA. I believe Anthem was supposed to be announced either at the VGA's or or next year if MEA was successful. They have already delayed Anthem once, but honestly another delay certainly wouldn't surprise me... As per my earlier post, we do have some idea where DA4 is in development. They started to put the Writer's Pit together earlier this year, with one more just coming on last month IIRC. Alexis said there was only a small team on the game prior to MEA wrapping up and was only just started to grow after that. Mike's comments on the bulk of the Edmonton team working on Anthem is another point to consider... With the Montreal studio gone and Austin busy on a number of projects (SW, Anthem, Hints of a new IP...) does raise questions about staffing while Anthem is still in development. Again, outsourcing is an option, but how much would they be willing to outsource on an important game like this?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 7, 2017 23:58:29 GMT
I disagree with the premise of the OP. There is no evidence they sat on, delayed, tarried, dallied or waited to start DA4. I have no doubt that someone, maybe PW, was working on the outline of the narrative soon after Trespasser came out. Or perhaps after the creative team took some time off -- they did work their asses off for Trespasser.
Each franchise likely has a core team that sticks with the franchise (more or less, there are some permanent migrations). The vast majority of designers, from level designers to environmental designers -- the most labor intensive functions -- are likely shared across multiple franchises. As are likely core functions like engine and platform engineering. The rotation of designers can be inferred from the tweets of designers like @sjosz, as they hint at what projects they are working on.
The upshot being, until that army of designers is freed up to move to your franchise, velocity towards release will be lower. Not zero, but not max either. As hrungr mentioned, the army is working on Anthem right now. And if MEA had done better, MEA2 would have taken longer to release than MEA because of Anthem also. BW went from a two franchise company to three and that means all bets are off when comparing against historical release timing, unless they hire more designers.
While they are hiring for both DA and Anthem, you can't grow your army of designers by 2x or 3x overnight. Not if you want quality hires. Skilled labor is inelastic, so it's going to take more time for the same scope of work. And I'm sure no one wants reduced scope to hit an arbitrarily earlier date.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 8, 2017 0:21:17 GMT
I disagree with the premise of the OP. There is no evidence they sat on, delayed, tarried, dallied or waited to start DA4. I have no doubt that someone, maybe PW, was working on the outline of the narrative soon after Trespasser came out. Or perhaps after the creative team took some time off -- they did work their asses off for Trespasser. Each franchise likely has a core team that sticks with the franchise (more or less, there are some permanent migrations). The vast majority of designers, from level designers to environmental designers -- the most labor intensive functions -- are likely shared across multiple franchises. As are likely core functions like engine and platform engineering. The rotation of designers can be inferred from the tweets of designers like @sjosz, as they hint at what projects they are working on. The upshot being, until that army of designers is freed up to move to your franchise, velocity towards release will be lower. Not zero, but not max either. As hrungr mentioned, the army is working on Anthem right now. And if MEA had done better, MEA2 would have taken longer to release than MEA because of Anthem also. BW went from a two franchise company to three and that means all bets are off when comparing against historical release timing, unless they hire more designers. While they are hiring for both DA and Anthem, you can't grow your army of designers by 2x or 3x overnight. Not if you want quality hires. Skilled labor is inelastic, so it's going to take more time for the same scope of work. And I'm sure no one wants reduced scope to hit an arbitrarily earlier date. In-fucking-deed. I remember teasing tweets from early 2016, so some degree of Pre-production has been going on at least that long. As far as size of the team in pre-prod, I think I heard 25-30... somewhere. But it's a good reminder that Anthem was another game added to BioWare's plate and it's not like they built a whole new studio to accommodate it, so something has to give... And while DA is hiring, it's a relatively small number (~15 IIRC), at least right now. And you're absolutely right about it taking time to acquire skilled hires. I keep an eye on the careers page, and some of those postings have been there for months now. And DA is still looking for a Lead Environment Artist, a QA Manager, and a number of senior developer positions.
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Post by githcheater on Sept 8, 2017 1:24:15 GMT
Perhaps Bioware is making better use of resources?
Presumably MEA and Anthem writers are both working on Anthem. With more writers, maybe Anthem will have more well developed quests, and fewer fetch quests. One can hope ...
I wonder when the majority of DAI migrate toward that unnanounced game speculated to be DA4?
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 8, 2017 18:05:35 GMT
Probably Anthem.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 8, 2017 21:21:26 GMT
Why do people keep thinking that Hawke was meant to be the star of Inquisition? Cassandra might have maintained that is why they were looking for Hawke in DAI but the end of DA2 makes it quite clear that both Hawke and the Warden are missing and Leliana implies there is some sort of sinister connection between the two. Cassandra's assertion in DAI was just a rather poor attempt to cover up the lack of continuity with the end of DA2.
That is the real problem. Originally there was meant to be a DLC called Exalted March which tied off the Hawke story and to some extent the mage/Templar conflict. Then because of the poor reception for DA2, that got cancelled and as a consequence the mage/Templar conflict carried over into the beginning of Inquisition. In the interim the novel Asunder was released which shifted the responsibility for causing the conflict from Anders/Hawke to the events at the White Spire, with Fiona suddenly assuming the role of Grand Enchanter (which made no sense to me whatsoever).
There was contradictory information about Fiona's reasons for leaving the Wardens as well. In Asunder she claimed she deliberately left and returned to the Circle system with a view to causing trouble. In Inquisition she maintained she left the Wardens because they were being mean to her.
What I do feel is that Hawke's contact was originally meant to be the Hero of Ferelden, which would then have tied in with the declaration by Leliana at the end of DA2. As it was, we had the rather odd idea of the Warden suddenly heading off into the West on some wild goose chase looking for a cure for the taint, whilst it would seem that Leliana knew where they were all the time, so making a nonsense of the end of DA2. Not only that but if you romanced Leliana then at the end of Trespasser the Warden is back with her, without any indication of whether their mission was successful or not. If you romanced Morrigan then she said she was going to join him but if you romanced Alistair or Zevran then presumably their Warden is still somewhere out west.
What I would like to see in the next game is some proper tying off of various plotlines that were left hanging. The Warden searching for a cure was one, the other was the alleged trouble at Weishauppt, which seemed sinister at the end of DAI, but was largely ignored in Trespasser, with just some cryptic comment from Varric, and also entirely disproved by the events in the novel The Last Flight.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Sept 8, 2017 21:57:43 GMT
I remember teasing tweets from early 2016, so some degree of Pre-production has been going on at least that long. As far as size of the team in pre-prod, I think I heard 25-30... somewhere. ... On some projects - not talking about anything specific here - a very small group of people will join the project in what is usually referred to as the concept phase where said small team brainstorms new ideas and prototypes a bunch of new mechanics and/or tech changes. Once those start getting approved (and assuming your project hasn't been canned or your staff hasn't been moved to a bigger projectile) you start moving more people on and that would be more likely to be referred to as pre-production in the typical sense.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 8, 2017 22:13:43 GMT
I remember teasing tweets from early 2016, so some degree of Pre-production has been going on at least that long. As far as size of the team in pre-prod, I think I heard 25-30... somewhere. ... On some projects - not talking about anything specific here - a very small group of people will join the project in what is usually referred to as the concept phase where said small team brainstorms new ideas and prototypes a bunch of new mechanics and/or tech changes. Once those start getting approved (and assuming your project hasn't been canned or your staff hasn't been moved to a bigger projectile) you start moving more people on and that would be more likely to be referred to as pre-production in the typical sense. Thanks for chiming in Luke, once again I appreciate the insight!
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Post by phoray on Sept 8, 2017 22:16:44 GMT
^^^ I wish I had extensive artistic skills so I would have to sign an NDA and get to write winky wink posts on a fan forum.
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Post by duckley on Sept 10, 2017 17:54:36 GMT
You can't blame this on Andromeda, different team. Development for Inquisition started up right after DA2 came out, like the month after, so why on earth did they sit on this franchise for so long after Inquisition so that we are polling about the year 2020? Especially since Inquisition was a financial success. Do they like missing out on money, or what? Do we actually know when they started or just when they confirmed they were going to develop DA4?
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 10, 2017 21:20:54 GMT
Looking through the several pages of twitter reports, the developers have hinted without stating outright that a new DA4 is on the way. They say 'something DA related' is happening. The most anyone can figure out is that it's still in early development and we have to wait until Anthem is out of the way for it to (maybe) show up in 2019? 2020?
I'm worried it may not be DA4 at all, but a pen and paper game, or phone app . . . we'll see.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 11, 2017 5:07:20 GMT
Looking through the several pages of twitter reports, the developers have hinted without stating outright that a new DA4 is on the way. They say 'something DA related' is happening. The most anyone can figure out is that it's still in early development and we have to wait until Anthem is out of the way for it to (maybe) show up in 2019? 2020? I'm worried it may not be DA4 at all, but a pen and paper game, or phone app . . . we'll see. I don't think they'd be looking for people to fill in positions like cinematic tools programmer or lead environment artist *for Dragon Age franchise* if it was for pen and paper game or phone app...
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 11, 2017 5:55:52 GMT
Also the pen & paper game has been a thing for years. Green Ronin publishes it, they have several books & adventures released. Still waiting for their post-Inqusition source book, though. According to Green Ronin they've got more books ready to go but haven't gotten permission from Bioware to publish them yet. Oddly enough GR has the same issue with their Song of Ice and Fire game.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Sept 11, 2017 5:58:26 GMT
I'm worried it may not be DA4 at all, but a pen and paper game, or phone app . . . we'll see. There's already a pen and paper game, made by Green Ronin. I really like it.
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Mar 23, 2017 14:26:49 GMT
March 2017
brandoftime
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 11, 2017 13:07:51 GMT
Thanks for the info So yeah, it looks like the only thing left is the follow up to DAI. I have to wonder if (to hold starving fans over - and make some money if they may not repeat history, make a bridge game like DA2 that sets things up and ties off last bit of unfinished business with Solas, launching us properly into the next title without any baggage. I would love a well done bridge title that would retail at 39.95 and be smaller than DAI, more like Awakening expansion to get things moving. Would anyone else want this, so the 3 years until DA4 would not be as painful?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 15:30:42 GMT
Thanks for the info So yeah, it looks like the only thing left is the follow up to DAI. I have to wonder if (to hold starving fans over - and make some money if they may not repeat history, make a bridge game like DA2 that sets things up and ties off last bit of unfinished business with Solas, launching us properly into the next title without any baggage. I would love a well done bridge title that would retail at 39.95 and be smaller than DAI, more like Awakening expansion to get things moving. Would anyone else want this, so the 3 years until DA4 would not be as painful? I would prefer smaller, more linear games/expansions like Awakening over the epic scale campaigns. So, sure, I'll be game for it. But, chances are, either economics or the modern tastes push them into gigantic games with long development cycles.
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