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Nov 20, 2019 15:50:19 GMT
7,875
jaison1986
3,319
Aug 25, 2016 12:58:51 GMT
August 2016
jaison1986
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Post by jaison1986 on Aug 20, 2018 23:42:58 GMT
Now you're just making excuses. The Special Operations Executive were a support group that did services of spionage and sabotage. They were not meant for fighting roles. At most, they had to fight when they got caught in their missions. But defenitely not frontline soldiers that went to the trenches. No, you're the one making excuses since I'm proving your assertions as inaccurate. You went from "there were no British women fighting on the front lines" to "there were no British women who were supposed to be fighting on the front lines". Yeah well, war is chaotic and many found themselves in that situation. Plus, a person finds themselves having to do more than they were enlisted and trained for? Sounds like every war game protagonist. But because she is a British woman now suddenly it's an issue. No. The agents from Special Operations Executive were dropped BEHIND the enemy lines to do sabotage. They were not fighters, they were spies. Accidentally getting into a fight after blowing your cover is not the same as actively going against the enemy in open combat. You're the one trying to find the fringiest types of evidence to justify yourself.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 20, 2018 23:46:54 GMT
No, you're the one making excuses since I'm proving your assertions as inaccurate. You went from "there were no British women fighting on the front lines" to "there were no British women who were supposed to be fighting on the front lines". Yeah well, war is chaotic and many found themselves in that situation. Plus, a person finds themselves having to do more than they were enlisted and trained for? Sounds like every war game protagonist. But because she is a British woman now suddenly it's an issue. No. The agents from Special Operations Executive were dropped BEHIND the enemy lines to do sabotage. They were not fighters, they were spies. Accidentally getting into a fight after blowing your cover is not the same as actively going against the enemy in open combat. You're the one trying to find the fringiest types of evidence to justify yourself. I have evidence. Plenty of it. The SOE was only one example anyway. Meanwhile you have nothing. Were they very rare, yes. But they were not nonexistent. No further justification needed.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:50:19 GMT
7,875
jaison1986
3,319
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Post by jaison1986 on Aug 20, 2018 23:48:55 GMT
No. The agents from Special Operations Executive were dropped BEHIND the enemy lines to do sabotage. They were not fighters, they were spies. Accidentally getting into a fight after blowing your cover is not the same as actively going against the enemy in open combat. You're the one trying to find the fringiest types of evidence to justify yourself. I have evidence. Plenty of it. The SOE was only one example anyway. Meanwhile you have nothing. Were they very rare, yes. But they were not nonexistent. I have "Nothing" because there is no evidence of active female british soldiers. You're the one trying to prove something that is not real.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 20, 2018 23:51:57 GMT
I have evidence. Plenty of it. The SOE was only one example anyway. Meanwhile you have nothing. Were they very rare, yes. But they were not nonexistent. I have "Nothing" because there is no evidence of active female british soldiers. You're the one trying to prove something that is not real. It is real. There were British women who found themselves fighting on the frontline. That is a fact.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:50:19 GMT
7,875
jaison1986
3,319
Aug 25, 2016 12:58:51 GMT
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Post by jaison1986 on Aug 20, 2018 23:53:11 GMT
I have "Nothing" because there is no evidence of active female british soldiers. You're the one trying to prove something that is not real. It is real. There were British women who found themselves fighting on the frontline. That is a fact. Can you give any names?
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2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 20, 2018 23:56:05 GMT
It is real. There were British women who found themselves fighting on the frontline. That is a fact. Would you mind linking the source for this claim? I suppose they were disabled as well? Besides in his/her head? None.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2018 0:10:01 GMT
It is real. There were British women who found themselves fighting on the frontline. That is a fact. Can you give any names? Well, Nancy Wake and Pearl Witherington come to mind. These two not only fought but even led resistance movements in guerrilla warfare that resulted in killing thousands of German soldiers.
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Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 0:23:45 GMT
Well, Nancy Wake and Pearl Witherington come to mind. These two not only fought but even led resistance movements in guerrilla warfare that resulted in killing thousands of German soldiers. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Wakeen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_WitheringtonThey were NOT front line soldiers. In fact, women were not allowed to be front line soldiers in Britain or the US. Edit:Even the Germans would not allow it.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2018 0:27:08 GMT
Front line: the military line or part of an army that is closest to the enemy. By the definition of front line, they absolutely were. Or are you suggesting the resistance movements as a whole shouldn't be considered as armies or even fighting? There were multiple front lines, not just the two big ones.
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2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 0:40:20 GMT
Front line: the military line or part of an army that is closest to the enemy. By the definition of front line, they absolutely were. Special agents don't serve on the front lines.
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185
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2018 0:44:34 GMT
Well, Nancy Wake and Pearl Witherington come to mind. These two not only fought but even led resistance movements in guerrilla warfare that resulted in killing thousands of German soldiers. I don't think anyone made a claim here that women can't fight, or that no women were involved in fighting during WW2. It's more that in the western front at least, women in fighting roles wasn't something common, you might even say that it was *very* rare. Even with the first example you mentioned her role was initially to serve as a courier, simply because women tended to be effective as spies / infiltrators / saboteurs during that period precisely because most enemies didn't expect them to be dangerous, and the element of surprise is very valuable when it comes to warfare. In the eastern front things were somewhat different, though only to a degree. Most female soldiers tended to serve as snipers and pilots, so again, even though they were close to the action they didn't serve as part of the actual front line. Needless to say, as far as I'm aware (and I did try looking it up) no women with missing limbs fought during WW2 on the side of the allies. None of the above explains why a disabled female soldier featured so prominently in that trailer. I'm not sure what the point of this was, but to me it looked ridiculous. I never said it wasn't very rare. I've acknowledged that. I'm just arguing against those who said it was nonexistent. But why can't a video game follow one of those very rare cases? Apparently when it comes to the Western front, some people like those I've been discussing this with think we can only play as those who came to Europe on the beaches of Normandy(even this doesn't really work since some of these women were parachuted in just like male soldiers). The missing limb is a lot more of a valid point to argue against, since that was extremely rare(in fact the only people I can think of who did were some Germans for example I believe there was a tank commander that had one). Arguing that a woman on the Western front fighting is impossible though is ridiculous and quite frankly insulting to those who did.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2018 0:45:32 GMT
Front line: the military line or part of an army that is closest to the enemy. By the definition of front line, they absolutely were. Special agents don't serve on the front lines. So all those in the various resistance movements you don't consider to have been fighting on the front lines.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:50:19 GMT
7,875
jaison1986
3,319
Aug 25, 2016 12:58:51 GMT
August 2016
jaison1986
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Post by jaison1986 on Aug 21, 2018 0:46:03 GMT
If you want a game based on individuals like Nancy Wake, you will find a more accurate experience with this one instead of Battlefield 5.
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424
0
Nov 26, 2024 18:27:45 GMT
6,805
Andrew Waples
4,328
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 21, 2018 0:47:21 GMT
I have other games that have my interest this year: Spider-Man, Red Dead and Assassins Creed (maybe a few others), but how can people pay $60 for what is essentially a Battle Royale experience? Especially when Fortnight is "free." People care that much about zombies?
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2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 0:51:30 GMT
Special agents don't serve on the front lines. So all those in the various resistance movements you don't consider to have been fighting on the front lines. Interesting. They were guerrilla fighters, which use hit and run and terror tactics, not front line tactics. Plus they were not trained soldiers, many were just simply civilians fighting against their oppressors. Edit: Maybe you should not be taking how Mass Effect handles spec ops and special agents seriously, because that's not how they operate.
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2754
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Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 1:08:54 GMT
Arguing that a woman on the Western front fighting is impossible though is ridiculous and quite frankly insulting to those who did. Trust me, I know quite a bit about various women who parachuted behind enemy lines during WW2. (and a lot of those stories didn't have a happy ending obviously, some were killed immediately on arrival, etc.) That said, they didn't fight on the western front, they always served primarily as saboteurs, spies, and couriers. As far as I know, there were no women in the trenches of the western front. No women in infantry roles, and no women in Tanks. The thing is, the argument isn't even about historical accuracy from EA's side, they made their point fairly clearly when that EA guy told that sad story about his daughter who just wants to play a female character in a WW2 game and he doesn't have the heart to tell her "you can't because you are a girl". Of course, the appropriate response would be "well, let me tell you a bit about the history and the realities of WW2", a game about WW2 isn't yet another battle-royale, historical accuracy has value, especially when it comes to WW2. Personally, I'd like to see those games becoming more faithful in their portrayal, certainly not less. Again, if you want to have a mindless fantasy shooter with a WW2 theme - that's fine, but make that clear, don't send mixed messages. Quoted for truth.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 1:15:54 GMT
They were guerrilla fighters, which use hit and run and terror tactics, not front line tactics. Plus they were not trained soldiers, many were just simply civilians fighting against their oppressors. Edit: Maybe you should not be taking how Mass Effect handles spec ops and special agents seriously, because that's not how they operate. Good thing I'm not. I'm using actual history as reference for how they and war operates. media1.giphy.com/media/3og0INyCmHlNylks9O/giphy.gifRiiiight...😒
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8885
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Nov 25, 2024 22:05:34 GMT
7,568
river82
5,222
July 2017
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Post by river82 on Aug 21, 2018 1:22:41 GMT
I have other games that have my interest this year: Spider-Man, Red Dead and Assassins Creed (maybe a few others), but how can people pay $60 for what is essentially a Battle Royale experience? Especially when Fortnight is "free." People care that much about zombies? We don't know that Black Ops is doing that well, in fact the rumours that pre-order numbers are down on previous title. It could just be Battlefield 5 is doing exceptionally poorly, and actually that's pretty much the only conclusion we can draw currently. Heh, zombies. How is Call of Duty still surviving ...
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Nov 26, 2024 18:42:50 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 21, 2018 1:26:53 GMT
I have other games that have my interest this year: Spider-Man, Red Dead and Assassins Creed (maybe a few others), but how can people pay $60 for what is essentially a Battle Royale experience? Especially when Fortnight is "free." People care that much about zombies? We don't know that Black Ops is doing that well, in fact the rumours that pre-order numbers are down on previous title. It could just be Battlefield 5 is doing exceptionally poorly, and actually that's pretty much the only conclusion we can draw currently. Heh, zombies. How is Call of Duty still surviving ... That's the question of the century right there.
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inherit
Now with HESH rounds!
912
0
6,638
The Biotic Trebuchet
Stolen by inquisition forces.
2,616
Aug 11, 2016 22:59:51 GMT
August 2016
thebioticbread
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Trebuchet_MkIV
[(e^x )- 4]
69
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Aug 21, 2018 2:49:58 GMT
Well, regardless the Battlefield, i always wants the core elements be intact:
An easy way to play a combine arms war with practical elements
Now, this royale thing, it's not my thing, but again, it's entirely skippable. (Conquest ftw)
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1
Nov 25, 2024 13:23:36 GMT
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SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,923
August 2016
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6000
7164
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 21, 2018 9:10:26 GMT
[women in the game] Let's not get snarky with each other in here. It takes only moments to find examples of some women fighting in WWII. To find women sent to the frontline, the instances get much more limited (and by limited countries and/or military operation), though I'm sure some were there by circumstances even if not by planning. DICE have clearly cherry-picked such a circumstance to show game inclusivity. Can't say it troubles me. Some others will be validly annoyed because it's not historically typical (which it isn't), though their 'war stories' do pick specific events to be fair. Some others will be less validly annoyed because they are sexist assholes. I think there are probably more of the former than the latter, but that's a judgment call, isn't it.
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Nov 15, 2024 18:18:41 GMT
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Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
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August 2016
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 21, 2018 9:24:37 GMT
Well, regardless the Battlefield, i always wants the core elements be intact: An easy way to play a combine arms war with practical elements Now, this royale thing, it's not my thing, but again, it's entirely skippable. (Conquest ftw) That is pretty much the core of BF. Not the agenda shit that's being talked about all the time.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:04:35 GMT
4,530
Melra
Better Call Davos
1,967
October 2016
mel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by Melra on Aug 21, 2018 12:28:30 GMT
85%, oh... Reap what you sow.
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Darth Dennis
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August 2016
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 21, 2018 13:20:04 GMT
DICE have clearly cherry-picked such a circumstance to show game inclusivity. Can't say it troubles me. I can't say this surprises me given your stance on things. Robo bitch can fucking die on the tire fire of the games pre-launch sales though.
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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,065
Arijon van Goyen
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August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 21, 2018 13:21:45 GMT
You have been fooled since 2000s on the internet. Mere existence of something (or a group) is not important. Its % and actual influence do matter. Stop playing this dumb game of did such persons/group exist or not. Although in this case it's so stupid it can be disregarded without any real effort! Muh disabled female commando! And the actual point
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