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Post by NUM13ER on Sept 21, 2017 20:36:50 GMT
I've never put much trust in any journalist who feels that delivering an unfinished product is defensible. It's a mentality that only favours publishers and developers. Critics are supposed to place the gamer above the game.
Is there really any other industry that defends unfinished products quite so much as videogaming? You wouldn't pay this much money for any other faulty product and this "We'll release it unfinished and just patch it later" attitude is one that not only deserves scorn but active discouragement.
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Post by NUM13ER on Sept 21, 2017 20:42:02 GMT
If we're being fair (we always are!), "cult classic" isn't necessarily the same as "good". Just look at The Warriors. Speak for yourself. It's worthy of the title cult classic for all the right reasons IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 20:42:55 GMT
I've never put much trust in any journalist who feels that delivering an unfinished product is defensible. It's a mentality that only favours publishers and developers. Critics are supposed to place the gamer above the game. Is there really any other industry that defends unfinished products quite so much as videogaming? You wouldn't pay this much money for any other faulty product and this "We'll release it unfinished and just patch it later" attitude is one that not only deserves scorn but active discouragement. I know right? It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a medium-rare steak and it coming out well-done. I guess I'm supposed to be happy that it came out at all...
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Post by fizzypop on Sept 21, 2017 21:04:11 GMT
People like to be contrary to popular opinion. I think what bioware did was bad, but not because MEA was really not that bad. It's bad because they laid all the blame on Montreal when it wasn't just Montreal. It isn't as if Montreal is its own identity and had 100% creative direction. We know that other names from Edmonton were actually more involved in the conception of MEA than Montreal was. Once they knew where they were going, they handed it off to Montreal. Which was a piss poor method for doing a game. On top of that they didn't have a lot of Veterans transfer over to Montreal well before MEA conception. The fact is when you make a new office you can't fill it with a bunch of new talent and expect that to work. Things were bad at Montreal well before MEA and they knew it, didn't fix it, and handed them a game they knew they couldn't handle. They failed them as much as Montreal did.
So my problem with the decision is it doesn't fix the underlying problems at bioware. It just gets rid of a bunch of new talent and ignores that old veteran management was just as much to blame for the problem. They'll go on to make similar mistakes because they aren't actually dealing with the problem. My 2 cents and all, but MEA is not awful never was. It was just mediocre which was disappointing to us fans because it could have been better. They should have restructured based on what was good about it and what didn't work. Laid proper blame to all the senior management involved in at bioware.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 21, 2017 21:57:40 GMT
If we're being fair (we always are!), "cult classic" isn't necessarily the same as "good". Just look at The Warriors. Speak for yourself. It's worthy of the title cult classic for all the right reasons IMO. To be fair while I haven't seen The Warriors a lot of cult classics have a bunch of elements that many would consider bad were it in any other movie. How those bad elements come together is often what can give the cult classic its charm and draw people to it. I mean The Room is a cult classic too, and that movie has some of the worst acting ever but it's become part of what makes it hilarious to watch.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 21, 2017 22:01:49 GMT
This is the only paragraph worth reading in that bizarre rant, and most people who hated MEA hated it for the story anyway. They didn't "overlook" anything. Seems like the author is just baiting for views with buzzwords tbh. Cult classic? MEA? Lol If we're being fair (we always are!), "cult classic" isn't necessarily the same as "good". Just look at The Warriors. Cult classic can be good or bad, it just means it has a cult-like following. Firefly is a cult classic in a good way IMHO, and something like Sharknado is a cult classic in a bad way because people just watch them for how ridiculous they are lol.
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Post by NUM13ER on Sept 21, 2017 22:29:26 GMT
Speak for yourself. It's worthy of the title cult classic for all the right reasons IMO. To be fair while I haven't seen The Warriors a lot of cult classics have a bunch of elements that many would consider bad were it in any other movie. How those bad elements come together is often what can give the cult classic its charm and draw people to it. I mean The Room is a cult classic too, and that movie has some of the worst acting ever but it's become part of what makes it hilarious to watch. I get that. I love a "So Bad It's Good" film as much as the next person, so I wouldn't argue if I thought The Warriors fell into that slot. But I feel overall it's a good film with an interesting premise. A bit campy of course, it is about gangs who have style gimmicks and an aversion to firearms, but it's got an awful lot going for it in terms of story, atmosphere and setting. I've heard the Russo bros are adapting the story for TV, so I'll look forward to seeing a new take. With some cautious optimism of course.
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Post by bshep on Sept 21, 2017 22:34:30 GMT
Weren't they bashing the game for some really stupid reason months ago? And some wonder why gaming media consist mostly of click bait articles.
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Post by abaris on Sept 21, 2017 23:04:54 GMT
Weren't they bashing the game for some really stupid reason months ago? And some wonder why gaming media consist mostly of click bait articles. This might be the right time to once again point out that it's an opinion piece by one author, not a revision of their review. Opinion - review. The distinction isn't that hard to get really.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 21, 2017 23:28:24 GMT
Weren't they bashing the game for some really stupid reason months ago? And some wonder why gaming media consist mostly of click bait articles. This is what they said about the game months ago. "After a number of complaints, it might seem odd to end on such a positive note. Let’s be clear: I’m conflicted about Mass Effect: Andromeda. There’s a lot of roughness throughout the game, and the technical issues, while not game-breaking, are often incredibly distracting.
But it’s my time with the cast that I’m still thinking about, and the mysteries about the world that haven’t been answered that make me feel like I’m waiting once again for a new Mass Effect game. And if I’m judging a game by where it leaves me, Andromeda succeeds, even if it stumbled getting there."
Hardly bashing the game. Unless my understanding of bashing is different than everyone else.
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Post by Guts on Sept 21, 2017 23:44:15 GMT
Weren't they bashing the game for some really stupid reason months ago? And some wonder why gaming media consist mostly of click bait articles. This might be the right time to once again point out that it's an opinion piece by one author, not a revision of their review. Opinion - review. The distinction isn't that hard to get really. That got me thinking. I think I remember seeing some people, not on here, disregarding the opinion of people who played ME:A but have never played a ME game before that, positive opinions of the game. It'd be pretty hypocritical if they disregarded a positive opinion towards ME:A that came from an ME noob but accepted a negative opinion of ME:A that came from another ME noob.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 3:05:45 GMT
well the article I think is just wrong, there's not really anything under the hood that's worth holding up
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 22, 2017 4:31:54 GMT
Here's a thought: different gaming journalists have different opinions, and Polygon publishes any article it thinks will generate clicks.
You seem to be suggesting that Polygon should have an "official" opinion, and force its writers to only produce content that aligns with that view, even if they don't personally agree. But that can't be right, because that would be a stupid thing to want.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 22, 2017 5:07:08 GMT
I'm still not convinced that the two articles even disagree with each other, let alone that such a disagreement would mean anything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 5:13:30 GMT
I'm still not convinced that the two articles even disagree with each other, let alone that such a disagreement would mean anything. From what I gather they both agree that the game had some pretty bad flaws. On the other hand one believes those flaws should reflect on the game while the other thinks they should be over looked.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Sept 22, 2017 21:29:14 GMT
Are we "being played" by the gaming media for clicks? If this is part of a regular cycle, why not just more level and balanced reporting from the outset? At least here, that's not the case. You'll note that the review and the new article are by different writers with a separation of half a year between them. Furthermore... the new article is about how games can flop but still have a lot going for them... and the original review is basically "I really enjoyed this but a lot of it didn't work", so it's hardly much of a difference. I've worked in media myself and it's not unheard of for an editor to put out two simultaneous pieces with different viewpoints at the same time; in fact, editors love it when two intelligent people in the office disagree, because that offers a lot of information and interesting content for the readers.
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Post by natetrace on Sept 22, 2017 21:41:20 GMT
Sophia Park wrote this. She's behind that Localhost game I liked. Next Mass Effect needs a synth companion like that. Build it up, choose a personality? Anyway, I really enjoyed MEA, warts and all. Last night I got the Elaaden loading bug again. Annoying but not enough to stop my fifth Ryder's campaign. Article is good, it's too early to call MEA a cult classic though.
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Post by heathenoxman on Sept 22, 2017 23:16:59 GMT
Two different authors with two different opinions. As Yoda would say: a conspiracy it is not.
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Post by abaris on Sept 23, 2017 15:41:21 GMT
Article is good, it's too early to call MEA a cult classic though. It will never happen. Neither good nor bad enough to be remembered. If something as average as MEA becomes a cult classic, standards for cult certainly have changed. It might have happened if they'd left it unpatched though.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 23, 2017 15:50:34 GMT
I don't think that's the right metric. Overall quality isn't really relevant to cult classic status, except in the sense that something too good ends up being just plain classic.
The question is whether it nevertheless inspires devotion for a large but not too large group of fans. I don't think ME:A is going to get there either, though. It has strengths, but nothing really particular to itself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 15:59:17 GMT
I don't think that's the right metric. Overall quality isn't really relevant to cult classic status, except in the sense that something too good ends up being just plain classic. The question is whether it nevertheless inspires devotion for a large but not too large group of fans. I don't think ME:A is going to get there either, though. It has strengths, but nothing really particular to itself. This is pretty spot-on. ME:A might be able to become one if modding becomes more possible.
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Post by natetrace on Sept 23, 2017 17:00:27 GMT
She mentions Earth Defense Force and Deadly Premonition. I just don't see Andromeda making it to the place those have. Again, I like Andromeda, but I think it's in ugly stepchild territory. Really, ME1 has more of a cult feel than Andromeda.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 23, 2017 17:05:36 GMT
She mentions Earth Defense Force and Deadly Premonition. I just don't see Andromeda making it to the place those have. Again, I like Andromeda, but I think it's in ugly stepchild territory. Really, ME1 has more of a cult feel than Andromeda. Before that, It was DA2 that was the ugly stepchild, the ME3 then DAI. Be a matter of time before the next Bioware game takes the role of the ugly stepchild.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 17:23:09 GMT
She mentions Earth Defense Force and Deadly Premonition. I just don't see Andromeda making it to the place those have. Again, I like Andromeda, but I think it's in ugly stepchild territory. Really, ME1 has more of a cult feel than Andromeda. Before that, It was DA2 that was the ugly stepchild, the ME3 then DAI. Be a matter of time before the next Bioware game takes the role of the ugly stepchild. Subtle dig at a conspiracy maybe... The fact is that ME3 and DAI's over all quality was never in question. Only design choices. ME:A is truly the DA2 of its time. People may like it but that doesn't excuse its flaws.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2017 17:27:40 GMT
Before that, It was DA2 that was the ugly stepchild, the ME3 then DAI. Be a matter of time before the next Bioware game takes the role of the ugly stepchild. Subtle dig at a conspiracy maybe... The fact is that ME3 and DAI's over all quality was never in question. Only design choices. ME:A is truly the DA2 of its time. People may like it but that doesn't excuse its flaws. Not really a conspiracy as much as what has been observable through the years at the old BSN. ME2 comes out and it's a hollow, superficial shell compared to the superior ME1. Then ME3 cones out and the refrain becomes "why couldn't it have been a classic like ME2". Same with with DA:O, DA2, and DA:I...and it will be the same with ME:A when Anthem comes out or DA4 or the next Mass Effect
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