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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 17:36:56 GMT
Subtle dig at a conspiracy maybe... The fact is that ME3 and DAI's over all quality was never in question. Only design choices. ME:A is truly the DA2 of its time. People may like it but that doesn't excuse its flaws. Not really a conspiracy as much as what has been observable through the years at the old BSN. ME2 comes out and it's a hollow, superficial shell compared to the superior ME1. Then ME3 cones out and the refrain becomes "why couldn't it have been a classic like ME2". Same with with DA:O, DA2, and DA:I...and it will be the same with ME:A when Anthem comes out or DA4 or the next Mass Effect The problem is you're basing that of of a small portion of the community where as I'm speaking more towards the over all reception of ME3 and DAI through out the masses. There were only a couple areas that a lot of people thought that both slipped up some.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2017 17:48:50 GMT
Not really a conspiracy as much as what has been observable through the years at the old BSN. ME2 comes out and it's a hollow, superficial shell compared to the superior ME1. Then ME3 cones out and the refrain becomes "why couldn't it have been a classic like ME2". Same with with DA:O, DA2, and DA:I...and it will be the same with ME:A when Anthem comes out or DA4 or the next Mass Effect The problem is you're basing that of of a small portion of the community where as I'm speaking more towards the over all reception of ME3 and DAI through out the masses. There were only a couple areas that a lot of people thought that both slipped up some. And we're already seeing an editorial article by Polygon reassessing the legacy of the game just 6 months after its release. I'm sure there will be more. The initial reaction to the game was extreme...it just takes time for the pendulum to swing back the other way in these cases.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 18:32:40 GMT
The problem is you're basing that of of a small portion of the community where as I'm speaking more towards the over all reception of ME3 and DAI through out the masses. There were only a couple areas that a lot of people thought that both slipped up some. And we're already seeing an editorial article by Polygon reassessing the legacy of the game just 6 months after its release. I'm sure there will be more. The initial reaction to the game was extreme...it just takes time for the pendulum to swing back the other way in these cases. And as I've stated in a previous thread, that was a OPINION (biased) piece 6 months after the actual unbiased (they try hard at least) review. If you look in the top left corner of her review you will clearly see that it's under an opinion piece unlike the original review. Even though I liked certain aspects of ME:A the original review was spot-on for its initial release.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2017 18:57:00 GMT
And we're already seeing an editorial article by Polygon reassessing the legacy of the game just 6 months after its release. I'm sure there will be more. The initial reaction to the game was extreme...it just takes time for the pendulum to swing back the other way in these cases. And as I've stated in a previous thread, that was a OPINION (biased) piece 6 months after the actual unbiased (they try hard at least) review. If you look in the top left corner of her review you will clearly see that it's under an opinion piece unlike the original review. Even though I liked certain aspects of ME:A the original review was spot-on for its initial release. I know it is an opinion piece...as was indicated by my use of words "editorial article". I gave the game an 8/10 on release so I agree with some of the articles criticisms. My point is, in my opinion, you will see more opinion pieces in the future that will reflect a softening of the initial criticism of the game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 19:09:30 GMT
And as I've stated in a previous thread, that was a OPINION (biased) piece 6 months after the actual unbiased (they try hard at least) review. If you look in the top left corner of her review you will clearly see that it's under an opinion piece unlike the original review. Even though I liked certain aspects of ME:A the original review was spot-on for its initial release. I know it is an opinion piece...as was indicated by my use of words "editorial article". I gave the game an 8/10 on release so I agree with some of the articles criticisms. My point is, in my opinion, you will see more opinion pieces in the future that will reflect a softening of the initial criticism of the game. But she doesn't do that. In her opening she states... The big difference here is that she's acknowledging a lot of the games flaws, just looking past them. The flaws were still there hence all its initial bad reviews. There's probably not going to be any softening of the reviews but may be re-reviewed based of its current state.
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Post by abaris on Sept 23, 2017 19:47:05 GMT
There's probably not going to be any softening of the reviews but may be re-reviewed based of its current state. Why would or should they do it for a six months old game that's no longer supported?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 19:58:30 GMT
There's probably not going to be any softening of the reviews but may be re-reviewed based of its current state. Why would or should they do it for a six months old game that's no longer supported? I honestly doubt they will, at least for the mainstream outlets. It's pretty common though for some youtuber's. I really don't see this game getting a better review or a second chance for the matter anytime soon.
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Post by N7Valentine on Sept 24, 2017 10:17:18 GMT
Wait... First Polygon trashed them but now ""prase" them? What's wrong with these guys? I swear the sensationalism and lack of objective reviewing is one of the major reason I don't care about reviews from gaming sites. When I see a game I like, I'll buy it and make my own decision
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Post by mannyray on Sept 24, 2017 11:22:08 GMT
Game reviews are what they are. I saw ME:A was on sale, had been patched to 1.09 (I think. Might have been the patch before?) and the atrocious launch had been partially mitigated, so I got it. I never preorder games anymore. I haven't since SWTOR in 2011. As far as the Polygon article goes, the game is fun to play for me, but for a series that rested on the strength of its story moreso than other action rpg's or shooters of their kind, I still say the script was written from bad fanfic written by high school kids.
I can defend ME:A 1.10 as a fun, but flawed entry in a franchise that certainly had more entertaining chapters. Looking at the entire series after this game's fall from grace, I realize how much ME:2 in particular relied on the story and characters to make a pedestrian hallway shooter more immersive and a lot of fun. ME:1 was engaging but unremarkable and ME:3 showed Bioware could hit nearly all the right notes, half-assed original ending aside.
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Post by abaris on Sept 24, 2017 11:42:54 GMT
Wait... First Polygon trashed them but now ""prase" them? What's wrong with these guys? How often do we have to point out, this was an opinion piece, marked as OPINION, by one person. Not a revision of their review.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 24, 2017 15:43:55 GMT
Anyway, in what universe can a review which begins with the words "I really like Mass Effect: Andromeda, but I don’t know that you will" be described as trashing the game?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 16:31:09 GMT
Anyway, in what universe can a review which begins with the words "I really like Mass Effect: Andromeda, but I don’t know that you will" be described as trashing the game? I don't know lets see... I guess when the other half of the review is laying in to it pretty hard. A couple examples being... Does this sound like a mess? Because it’s a total goddamned mess. This isn’t helped by a UI that feels poorly equipped for the task at hand, along with some truly confusing design decisions.
This all sucks. It’s cumbersome and slow, and discourages the use of some gameplay elements that are given fairly prominent placement. But the most emblematic example of mind-bogglingly bad implementation goes to planet scanning, which remains in Mass Effect: Andromeda despite an apparent lack of any good gameplay-related reason for it being thereAnd then we come to the final score of 7.5 which is pretty damn bad for a AAA title. Given that score some on here would consider that trashing.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 24, 2017 17:40:06 GMT
I don't look at Polygon's number awards often enough to know what they mean. Since you apparently do, what does a Polygon 7.5 mean? What other games got a 7.5 from them?
And cherry-picking negative quotes while leaving positive ones behind is no way to summarize a review. Unless your point is that people could get the wrong idea by not actually reading and understanding the review?
Edit: What I'm getting at is that, for instance, if I were to review ME1, it would read a lot like that review of ME:A. I'd spend a bunch of time talking about systems that were either poorly-implemented, lousy conceptual fits for the design which shouldn't even have been attempted in the first place, or both. Wouldn't mean that I disliked the game, and I wouldn't say that I disliked the game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 18:19:16 GMT
I don't look at Polygon's number awards often enough to know what they mean. Since you apparently do, what does a Polygon 7.5 mean? What other games got a 7.5 from them? And cherry-picking negative quotes while leaving positive ones behind is no way to summarize a review. Unless your point is that people could get the wrong idea by not actually reading and understanding the review? Edit: What I'm getting at is that, for instance, if I were to review ME1, it would read a lot like that review of ME:A. I'd spend a bunch of time talking about systems that were either poorly-implemented, lousy conceptual fits for the design which shouldn't even have been attempted in the first place, or both. Wouldn't mean that I disliked the game, and I wouldn't say that I disliked the game. Cherry-picking like your statement of... Anyway, in what universe can a review which begins with the words "I really like Mass Effect: Andromeda, but I don’t know that you will" be described as trashing the game?Come on guy. Lets not be stupid here...He was clearly looking at the game in a negative fashion basically saying you could still have fun if you can look past all the problems.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 24, 2017 19:58:08 GMT
Polygon: In defense of Mass Effect: Andromeda and other messy games www.polygon.com/2017/9/20/16332958/mass-effect-andromeda-defense-messy-gamesPulled over from the Twitter Thread. Discuss at will from whatever perspective you want. The reaction to this on the Twitter thread is that it's part of a regular pattern in the gaming media. So, is it regular for a game to be totally trashed when first released and then as those sensationalist clicks die out, for gaming media to revive the sensationalism by abruptly changing course towards defending the same game? As a refresher, here's a link to Polygon's original review: www.polygon.com/2017/3/20/14886618/mass-effect-andromeda-review-PS4-Xbox-One-PCAre we "being played" by the gaming media for clicks? If this is part of a regular cycle, why not just more level and balanced reporting from the outset? No ones being played, save for the actual clickbait out there that are obsessed with the game and claiming it raped their childhood... Oh wait, thats Star Wars fans on the prequels...but such fandoms are interchangeable sometimes when the players think they own something. Honestly it's just subjective. All of this always was really. As someone who does reviews I can tell you that there is no objective truth about a game save for certain things like it working properly to begin with.
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Post by General Mahad on Sept 25, 2017 9:21:05 GMT
Polygon being out of touch with reality and defending a crappy product? You don't say.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 15:03:10 GMT
Polygon: In defense of Mass Effect: Andromeda and other messy games www.polygon.com/2017/9/20/16332958/mass-effect-andromeda-defense-messy-gamesPulled over from the Twitter Thread. Discuss at will from whatever perspective you want. The reaction to this on the Twitter thread is that it's part of a regular pattern in the gaming media. So, is it regular for a game to be totally trashed when first released and then as those sensationalist clicks die out, for gaming media to revive the sensationalism by abruptly changing course towards defending the same game? As a refresher, here's a link to Polygon's original review: www.polygon.com/2017/3/20/14886618/mass-effect-andromeda-review-PS4-Xbox-One-PCAre we "being played" by the gaming media for clicks? If this is part of a regular cycle, why not just more level and balanced reporting from the outset? No ones being played, save for the actual clickbait out there that are obsessed with the game and claiming it raped their childhood... Oh wait, thats Star Wars fans on the prequels...but such fandoms are interchangeable sometimes when the players think they own something. Honestly it's just subjective. All of this always was really. As someone who does reviews I can tell you that there is no objective truth about a game save for certain things like it working properly to begin with. My thoughts really stemmed from the comments that started popping up on the Twitter thread... that this was some sort of regular cycle to be expected; that is, that a new game is habitually trashed on release and then defended a bit it later? I was wonder where this impression was coming from. I would like to see more balanced reviews initially... or the company undertaking to post up "opposing" reviews side by side. I know that, realistically, it's probably not going to happen. What I'm pushing for mostly is going back to giving out more real information and less opinion in any of the pieces they publish.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 2, 2017 15:25:22 GMT
I'm still not seeing any real issue with Polygon's coverage. That initial review is pretty fair. I wouldn't have personally awarded that final numerical score, but it's defensible. (And arguably serves Polygon's readers better.)
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Post by samhain444 on Oct 2, 2017 15:31:00 GMT
I'm still not seeing any real issue with Polygon's coverage. That initial review is pretty fair. I wouldn't have personally awarded that final numerical score, but it's defensible. (And arguably serves Polygon's readers better.) Yeah, in it's pre-patched state, a 7.5 is pretty reasonable and not far off from the 8.5 I gave the game overall in its finished/patched state.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 17:31:17 GMT
I'm still not seeing any real issue with Polygon's coverage. That initial review is pretty fair. I wouldn't have personally awarded that final numerical score, but it's defensible. (And arguably serves Polygon's readers better.) I'm more looking at the tone of the review... not the numerical bottom line... and I'm not taking particular exception to the review or the defense article either. People on the Twitter thread were commenting about this being part of an expected pattern... pull the reader one way then pull them back the other. I'm not convinced this sort of pendulum (IF it is a pattern) as opposed to putting up side by side opposing reviews at the same time serves the readers better. If these two articles don't show that pattern fine... Then where were the comments on the Twitter thread coming from?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 2, 2017 19:07:06 GMT
We're reading the tone differently, I guess. Like I said upthread, if I wrote an ME1 review -- or maybe even an ME:A review -- it would have ended up sounding similar.
The takeaway here might only be that I wouldn't make a very good reviewer.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 3, 2017 14:46:59 GMT
No ones being played, save for the actual clickbait out there that are obsessed with the game and claiming it raped their childhood... Oh wait, thats Star Wars fans on the prequels...but such fandoms are interchangeable sometimes when the players think they own something. Honestly it's just subjective. All of this always was really. As someone who does reviews I can tell you that there is no objective truth about a game save for certain things like it working properly to begin with. My thoughts really stemmed from the comments that started popping up on the Twitter thread... that this was some sort of regular cycle to be expected; that is, that a new game is habitually trashed on release and then defended a bit it later? I was wonder where this impression was coming from. I would like to see more balanced reviews initially... or the company undertaking to post up "opposing" reviews side by side. I know that, realistically, it's probably not going to happen. What I'm pushing for mostly is going back to giving out more real information and less opinion in any of the pieces they publish. Thing is most of the professional reviews have been balanced for the game. Especially considering the gamut many of them run. It's the fan point of view that has been super skewed ive found, but I admit i'm biased on that front.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 15:03:58 GMT
I think it's telling that the comments to the article are still about ME3 ending.
As for the article, it's too grudging and too little too late for me to treat it as something that attempts to be brave, honest and fair.
I agree when the author says that the story is uplifting, asks interesting questions and that the characters are endearing and well written. I disagree with building a fence against the outrage with the unnecessary premise "well, it's a mess anyway" and "it would have been okay on television". That makes the article underwhelming.
I am brave enough to stand up and say no matter what I simply loved the game and will play it a few times yet over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 17:41:29 GMT
My thoughts really stemmed from the comments that started popping up on the Twitter thread... that this was some sort of regular cycle to be expected; that is, that a new game is habitually trashed on release and then defended a bit it later? I was wonder where this impression was coming from. I would like to see more balanced reviews initially... or the company undertaking to post up "opposing" reviews side by side. I know that, realistically, it's probably not going to happen. What I'm pushing for mostly is going back to giving out more real information and less opinion in any of the pieces they publish. Thing is most of the professional reviews have been balanced for the game. Especially considering the gamut many of them run. It's the fan point of view that has been super skewed ive found, but I admit i'm biased on that front. Thanks for the input. I guess the comments I was seeing emerging on the on the Twitter thread right after Hrungr posted the article link were a little out of whack with what the community generally feels.
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Post by brfritos on Oct 3, 2017 21:20:08 GMT
Game reviews are what they are. I saw ME:A was on sale, had been patched to 1.09 (I think. Might have been the patch before?) and the atrocious launch had been partially mitigated, so I got it. I never preorder games anymore. I haven't since SWTOR in 2011. As far as the Polygon article goes, the game is fun to play for me, but for a series that rested on the strength of its story moreso than other action rpg's or shooters of their kind, I still say the script was written from bad fanfic written by high school kids. I can defend ME:A 1.10 as a fun, but flawed entry in a franchise that certainly had more entertaining chapters. Looking at the entire series after this game's fall from grace, I realize how much ME:2 in particular relied on the story and characters to make a pedestrian hallway shooter more immersive and a lot of fun. ME:1 was engaging but unremarkable and ME:3 showed Bioware could hit nearly all the right notes, half-assed original ending aside.
I get it where you coming at and I agree with you in a reverse way. Is that make sense?
I don't call ME1 "unremarkable", since every review, site, tribute, song and art about the ME universe always quote something from the game. ME1 left the hook in the end to the devs continue the story in every possible way. I'm a big fan of ME1 and I was sad to see all the premisses thrown out of the window and substitute for what we have seen in ME2. But the game is far from the trash people call it, is in fact a very good and fun game.
It was not what I was looking at, I prefer something more in tone with ME1, the story of ME2 is just plain dumb. But the entire game player's universe is not just me, right?
The problem is... the writers put themselves in a corner regarding the story. While ME1 left it open, ME2 left only one path available and Arrival DLC narrow it. ME3 story wasn't a mistery and how the story would fold was even less this mistery: war with the reapers in a very grousome way. And we lost a lot of time in ME2 doing things that do not advanced the reapers storyline, so everything was left to the third game.
ME3 has very interesting things and A LOT of wrongs. This was discussed to the death before and it's not the point now. The endings are a disappointment, but not for reasons most people cry about. There are very interesting ideas in the endings... extremely poorly presented and overly simplified. The decision to left some important things to be sold as DLC, like Leviathan and Javik, hampered and hurted the experience. From the story stand point Leviathan is crucial to shed some light in the synthesis idea and the introduction of the "inteligence", so it's not just "space magic" or the joke about choices had Leviathan being presented in the main game.
Worst of all, the endings don't left too much to work in a sequel. You only have three scenarios with some consequences firmly stabilished in the lore's universe, like the Citadel now in Earth's orbit, with not too much room to maneuver regarding the state of the Milky Way galaxy.
This lead us to MEA: a blank slate, with a blank story and a blank background regarding the iniciative. And this is what we get? MMO mechanics that hurt the gameplay more than they add? An interesting enough plot twist regarding the kett, but then squandered because you need enemies and whom Ryder will shoot? The pyjak at the Tempest (or Nexus)?
I can't belive the devs dropped the ball on this one.
The troublesome thing behind all of this is the way Bioware worked in MEA is extremelly similar how they worked in ME3. Is not random.
Separate teams not talking to each other and ideas implemented separately and then conflicting with each other, which left the game behind his schedule and forced Bioware to speed things up. We don't have Palaven in ME3 because of this and in MEA this translated in the huge problems with animations, but also hurted the game's pace. There's a clear distinctive pace between Eos and Havari, the impression the game left on me is it wasn't planned that way.
To add to this problems, Bioware was also having trouble with a new game's engine and EA's fixed idea of implementing MP in every game, even where they don't quite fit, and then making the MP interfere with them surely didn't helped.
So is a dev culture, not some random rough roads down the path. Either people accept it or move on, it's simple.
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