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Post by N7eezo on Nov 28, 2020 11:09:33 GMT
despite having the creative freedom this season, which mostly does become the show well, some fun ideas to change the order of things upside down, the writing staff still continue with the annoying over dramatization, too teary and melodramatic ALL THE TIME for my taste. Plus it demonstrates that the only way Alex Kurtzman and his 20 other producers (seriously, the opening titles spend more time on producers than cast members) could make the show interesting was by utterly burning the whole franchise to the ground and start again, removing most of what made Trek, Trek.
(Why do you really think the universe shattering event was called "the Burn").
It doesn't help either that they're ripping off Andromeda by having the crew be relics from a bygone era that were thrown forward in time, only to discover they've entered the Galactic Dark Ages and now must embark on a mission to restore the Commonwealth Federation.
I haven't really seen Andromeda outside of some random episode and although I prefer an original story, I generally don't mind if things are copied or taken inspiration from, as long as the characters and stories are well made.
Our beloved Mass Effect is a good example of taking inspirations from a lot of places and weaving them together quite nicely, even if it has issues as well.
To make old friends > strangers, partners > foes serves mainly to be able to tell new stories from a different perspective, it also helps having shades of grey instead of just good vs bad.
For Disco:
Mostly the pacing is all over the place and it feels more like: we need a one liner and action sequence for the trailer, then we need a dramatic cut to ads break, we also need emotion = so tears. It feels like they are going trough a checklist and then tape it together. Compare it to another serialized series like the Expanse.
My hope is that Strange New Worlds doesn't have the Disco issues, despite having some writing and creative team overlap.
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Post by dazk on Dec 2, 2020 23:26:52 GMT
So finished season 2 of Discovery and enjoyed it and am now up to episode 4 of Season 3 and it's been pretty good so far.
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Post by sjpelke on Dec 11, 2020 22:46:52 GMT
Guys.....
Whatever race, planet or any kind of other ´where ever do I come from´ theme: this show is AWESOME!
(at least for me)
yeah....there are some minor explanation things going on to keep the flow but....AWESOME in general; a whole new view on s show that has been around so long: I BOW
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 15, 2020 5:03:16 GMT
I really like season 3 so far but episode 9 was a complete desaster IMO. There is a lot to do for Discovery in this season. Find out what caused the burn, figure out what will become of the crumpled Federation remains, show us more of that rather awesome far future. That's what I want to see, not some weird tangent in the mirror universe, reliving Georgiou's past there with mirror version of the other main characters who's fate doesn't interest me in the least. WTF? I really hope they'll end that offshoot very quickly in the next episode and bring us back to where we are supposed to be, the prime universe.
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Post by N7eezo on Dec 19, 2020 10:34:32 GMT
after a few promising signs, it seems Disco is happy and more interested to rehash old ideas and fan favorites instead of focusing on creating new stuff. Add the constant overdone emotions which bugged me before, thus I'm beaming out (of the) Disco. May those that like it, continue to enjoy it.
off all the announced projects, I'm looking forward to Lower Decks season 2 and Strange New Worlds however. Also hope we get a final Kelvin crew movie or limited series, whether it's Tarantino or not.
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Post by hoku on Dec 30, 2020 5:17:33 GMT
Never would have thought I could like an animated series (as an adult), wow, was I wrong! Lower Decks is hilariously funny, full on homage of all things Star Trek and surprisingly good stories too. I can’t wait for season 2 and look forward to rewatch season 1 soon.
Overall, it’s so nice to have different Star Trek flavors available (or in the making)! Neither Discovery nor Picard are my taste from the Kurtzman era, tentatively excited for Strange New Worlds though. Curious about the Janeway Kids show too. Big DS9 fan (what an awesome set of extended cast/characters!), liked the Archer Enterprise series too.
Edit: while not technically Star Trek, I like the Orville too. In many ways it’s an homage to Star Trek and it has many Star Treks veterans and fans on the production/crew side as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 7:53:12 GMT
Finished S3. Discovery, it's got flaws. Lots of em. I still find it entertaining, and there are aspects that I quite enjoy.
I liked the fresh feeling this season brought.
Specifically, how it wasn't mired in our expectations of 90's/00's trek technology. Star Trek tech isn't that futuristic in some aspects, not anymore. Like playing games that predate wireless tech there are some things that were beyond our comprehension at the time. UI design like LCARs might have seemed futuristic and fancy but simply isn't anymore. Star Trek showcased us what could be on the technological horizon. It grounded our imaginations with plausibility. It hasn't done that for a while now.
Discovery gave the setting a much needed facelift that felt like we were in the future again, not nostalgic-future. Programmable matter, completely customizable UI, personal transporters. I enjoyed that part of the show.
***
The main cast continues to be uninteresting for the most part. It's by far the weakest point of the show. I think they tried to tackle how mind-fuckingly brutal jumping to the future permanently would be but they fell short of the mark.
Burnham felt less like a robotic saviour but was ultimately still, Michael Burnham.
Saru who I enjoy more than most of the cast seemed to have most of his growth the previous season. Fair enough, with how they ended things in 3 I have some hopes he'll get interesting again. I did enjoy a particular moment when he realized the sphere data was protecting them, not just the ship.
Tilly getting promoted was something they've been moving towards but that doesn't mean it was a good idea in the first place. It makes very little sense. I liked Tilly in S1, she had a niche that she filled extremely well. It just destroys logic to see her promoted like she has been. This doesn't feel like proper growth for her character so much as shoe-handling her into a role they conceived when working on the Mirror Universe in S1.
Stamets was Stamets, he's another character I like a bit more than the rest but he had virtually no growth, or truly meaningful story of his own. They turned him into Adira's sidekick. (She's already got one...)
Which brings me to Adira. Yet another super-intelligent promoted-too-fast young person shoe-horned into the cast. I can pretty much say I don't like her character and didn't enjoy how much screen time she got.
On the flip side of that coin I think her partner Gray Tal has a lot of potential as an actor and very little of it was utilized.
Culber, loved his character in S1. He's been steadily in decline since. Under-utilized. He seems to fall into the Stamets trap of side-kicking everyone else. Still enjoy his screen time but he needs a new plot.
The bridge crew got some moments, I appreciated how Detmer experienced trauma, I'm sad it magically went away after a freak-out at dinner. Honesty thought Owosekun would bite it at the end til the droid showed up. Sadly the rest of the bridge crew is as unmemorable as ever. Airiam had potential, shame they spaced her.
Sadly we get maybe 2 minutes of screen time for one of my surprise favs. Jett Reno. Her character is someone I'd probably hate if I met her in real life but encapsulated in a show? She hit her mark perfectly. Shame she barely shows up.
***
Part of why I still enjoy Discovery despite having extremely limited interest in the main cast is that the secondary single-season stars have been amazing. Lorca before he turns "villain of the week" is one of my favourite characters in Trek, any of them. Anson Mount knocked his Pike roll out of the park and exemplified what that nostalgic ideal of a star ship captain should be. Georgiou when they aren't writing her like an angsty teenager has a lot of potential. (Albeit she's losing a lot of the goodwill gained from previous seasons.)
This season fell a bit in that regard though.
Booker, nice addition. Sadly just Michael's doe-eyed tagalong. I enjoyed his acting and what he brought to the beginning of S3.
The one that really captured my interest and instead of losing it, grew it, was Admiral Vance. Finally an Admiral that acted like an Admiral.
Osyraa, what a boring-ass villain. Bleh. Haven't seen such a one-dimensional villain in a while, almost impressive she didn't appear flat when she turned to the side.
Zora, the ship's computer. I hope and suspect she'll get a lot more next season cause for something so momentous instead of growing a tree they sprinkled three seeds.
***
The story...
Jumping to the future was a soft-reset. The Burn was an acceptable way of keeping things toned down. They couldn't jump 900 years in the future and show up to Federation Paradise Universe. The setting had to be toned down, and I was fine with the Burn doing that. It was interesting if derivative. We got to see Star Trek feel like it was actually in the future again while maintaining a plot-line that wasn't going to be so abstract as to be ridiculous due to the time-frame it's set in.
The source of the Burn. Well... at least it wasn't Burnham.
But one person?
Really?
Such an interesting idea that again, falls flat. An addle-minded kelpian throws a temper-tantrum and destroys the galaxy. Wow... just... nope. Dumb. The first thing someone needs to do is kill this guy for the sake of the universe. I'm sure he's going to go on and save it somehow, someday, but I don't care. Section 31 needs to end him. What a letdown, no, what a stupid letdown. I find it hard to believe a group of writers in a room said "yeah this is great". This is arguably the worst ending to a reasonably interesting plot I've seen, bar none. I mean, the last season of GoT was trash but even that had seeds of greatness that just weren't executed well. But this? Someone ate the seeds and shit em out.
The idea behind a sentient humanoid creature that can interact with sub-space is interesting. Booker's empathy was a nice reminder that Star Trek dabbles in sci-magic but can still make you wonder. (Mind you I hated the light-bright crap on his head. I first thought it was an implant letting him do it.) These concepts hold promise, but weren't used to engage us in something interesting, just square pegs stuffed into round plot-holes.
***
The season began with renewed interest for me and failed in nearly every aspect to live up to what it could have.
There are still elements I am interested in, and I'm sure I'll watch S4, but this show has an uncanny way of letting me down repeatedly.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 11, 2021 23:45:02 GMT
Finished S3. Discovery, it's got flaws. Lots of em. I still find it entertaining, and there are aspects that I quite enjoy.
I liked the fresh feeling this season brought.
Specifically, how it wasn't mired in our expectations of 90's/00's trek technology. Star Trek tech isn't that futuristic in some aspects, not anymore. Like playing games that predate wireless tech there are some things that were beyond our comprehension at the time. UI design like LCARs might have seemed futuristic and fancy but simply isn't anymore. Star Trek showcased us what could be on the technological horizon. It grounded our imaginations with plausibility. It hasn't done that for a while now.
Discovery gave the setting a much needed facelift that felt like we were in the future again, not nostalgic-future. Programmable matter, completely customizable UI, personal transporters. I enjoyed that part of the show.
***
The main cast continues to be uninteresting for the most part. It's by far the weakest point of the show. I think they tried to tackle how mind-fuckingly brutal jumping to the future permanently would be but they fell short of the mark.
Burnham felt less like a robotic saviour but was ultimately still, Michael Burnham.
Saru who I enjoy more than most of the cast seemed to have most of his growth the previous season. Fair enough, with how they ended things in 3 I have some hopes he'll get interesting again. I did enjoy a particular moment when he realized the sphere data was protecting them, not just the ship.
Tilly getting promoted was something they've been moving towards but that doesn't mean it was a good idea in the first place. It makes very little sense. I liked Tilly in S1, she had a niche that she filled extremely well. It just destroys logic to see her promoted like she has been. This doesn't feel like proper growth for her character so much as shoe-handling her into a role they conceived when working on the Mirror Universe in S1.
Stamets was Stamets, he's another character I like a bit more than the rest but he had virtually no growth, or truly meaningful story of his own. They turned him into Adira's sidekick. (She's already got one...)
Which brings me to Adira. Yet another super-intelligent promoted-too-fast young person shoe-horned into the cast. I can pretty much say I don't like her character and didn't enjoy how much screen time she got.
On the flip side of that coin I think her partner Gray Tal has a lot of potential as an actor and very little of it was utilized.
Culber, loved his character in S1. He's been steadily in decline since. Under-utilized. He seems to fall into the Stamets trap of side-kicking everyone else. Still enjoy his screen time but he needs a new plot.
The bridge crew got some moments, I appreciated how Detmer experienced trauma, I'm sad it magically went away after a freak-out at dinner. Honesty thought Owosekun would bite it at the end til the droid showed up. Sadly the rest of the bridge crew is as unmemorable as ever. Airiam had potential, shame they spaced her.
Sadly we get maybe 2 minutes of screen time for one of my surprise favs. Jett Reno. Her character is someone I'd probably hate if I met her in real life but encapsulated in a show? She hit her mark perfectly. Shame she barely shows up.
***
Part of why I still enjoy Discovery despite having extremely limited interest in the main cast is that the secondary single-season stars have been amazing. Lorca before he turns "villain of the week" is one of my favourite characters in Trek, any of them. Anson Mount knocked his Pike roll out of the park and exemplified what that nostalgic ideal of a star ship captain should be. Georgiou when they aren't writing her like an angsty teenager has a lot of potential. (Albeit she's losing a lot of the goodwill gained from previous seasons.)
This season fell a bit in that regard though.
Booker, nice addition. Sadly just Michael's doe-eyed tagalong. I enjoyed his acting and what he brought to the beginning of S3.
The one that really captured my interest and instead of losing it, grew it, was Admiral Vance. Finally an Admiral that acted like an Admiral.
Osyraa, what a boring-ass villain. Bleh. Haven't seen such a one-dimensional villain in a while, almost impressive she didn't appear flat when she turned to the side.
Zora, the ship's computer. I hope and suspect she'll get a lot more next season cause for something so momentous instead of growing a tree they sprinkled three seeds.
***
The story...
Jumping to the future was a soft-reset. The Burn was an acceptable way of keeping things toned down. They couldn't jump 900 years in the future and show up to Federation Paradise Universe. The setting had to be toned down, and I was fine with the Burn doing that. It was interesting if derivative. We got to see Star Trek feel like it was actually in the future again while maintaining a plot-line that wasn't going to be so abstract as to be ridiculous due to the time-frame it's set in.
The source of the Burn. Well... at least it wasn't Burnham.
But one person?
Really?
Such an interesting idea that again, falls flat. An addle-minded kelpian throws a temper-tantrum and destroys the galaxy. Wow... just... nope. Dumb. The first thing someone needs to do is kill this guy for the sake of the universe. I'm sure he's going to go on and save it somehow, someday, but I don't care. Section 31 needs to end him. What a letdown, no, what a stupid letdown. I find it hard to believe a group of writers in a room said "yeah this is great". This is arguably the worst ending to a reasonably interesting plot I've seen, bar none. I mean, the last season of GoT was trash but even that had seeds of greatness that just weren't executed well. But this? Someone ate the seeds and shit em out.
The idea behind a sentient humanoid creature that can interact with sub-space is interesting. Booker's empathy was a nice reminder that Star Trek dabbles in sci-magic but can still make you wonder. (Mind you I hated the light-bright crap on his head. I first thought it was an implant letting him do it.) These concepts hold promise, but weren't used to engage us in something interesting, just square pegs stuffed into round plot-holes.
***
The season began with renewed interest for me and failed in nearly every aspect to live up to what it could have.
There are still elements I am interested in, and I'm sure I'll watch S4, but this show has an uncanny way of letting me down repeatedly.
This is amazing. I agree with everything you wrote 100% and have nothing to add. Couldn’t have said it better (probably worse ) myself.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 18, 2021 18:01:56 GMT
One issue I have with S3 is that even though they're seemingly trying to de-Sueify Micheal by pointing out her numerous shortcomings, massive messiah complex and having her suffer consequences for her constant insubordination, they kinda undermine it by still mostly writing her the same old way as before. For example; Even when she's punished by being demoted from being the First Officer, she still gets to have the last word in that conversation and forgives Saru for having (rightfully) relieved her of command due to her constant breaking of the rules.
When Tilly becomes the new first officer and the crew celebrates, Michael shows up at the last minute to make it seem like she's the one allowing her to take the job, undercutting that Tilly deserved the job because she proved she could be trusted to follow orders.
Even when she ignores orders, undermines the authority of others or goes rogue to carry out a task she was explicitly told not to do, the situation always ends up working out or proving her right to have done so. Michael is never allowed to be wrong, ever.
I like they're addressing the complaints about her character, but the writers don't seem to realise that acknowledgement doesn't really mean much if they then gloss over why those things are bad or have her continue to engage in the same old stunts as before. Michael Burnham is a character who engages in constant insubordination, even though the first time she ever did in the show it massively blew up in her face, got her captain killed and nearly sent her to prison for the rest of her life. She should be a character who understands that breaking the rules can have dire consequences and try to follow the rules as best she can, not break them simply because she can or because someone dared to say "NO!" to her.
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Post by KrrKs on Feb 2, 2021 22:00:09 GMT
Since lower decks is now finally available outside the US, I also got to watch it. And I really love this show! I mean, the main cast seem to all have adhd or somesuch, but season 1 was really great! I guess I actually like this show a bit more than the Orville, which is 'just' traditional star trek with more jokes. Lower decks and mariner put a new twist on that. I just hope the wait for season 2 doesn't get that long again.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 3, 2021 16:26:57 GMT
Having finished S3, my previous comments on the writers constant backsliding when it comes to trying to de-Sue Michael, seem all the more fitting than before. Michael in no way deserved to be made Captain at the end of S3.
Even though the ship was taken under Tilly's watch, she acted far more like a Captain during her stint as First Officer than Michael ever has done.
Tilly kept cool and calm under a crisis, kept herself and the other hostages alive and made the hard decision to sacrifice Owo by sending her alone on the suicide mission when the rest of them couldn't make it (even if Owo ultimately survived).
Tilly made all the right decisions and it doesn't seem fair that her contributions to saving the day were overlooked because Burnham went all John McClane on Osyraa.
Furthermore, Burnham proved herself (once again) to be a complete hypocrite in that she wasn't going to let an emotionally compromised Stamet's risk everything to save his loved ones... but when it comes to her loved ones, when have we ever seen her not risk everything despite being emotionally compromised?
Stamets was right to call her out that the crew lost everything they knew coming to the future just for her... and this is how she repays that loyalty?
Burnham has long-since proven herself unworthy of being placed in any form of command, let alone the big chair. Once again, they seem to think she should be rewarded for her failures, rather than punished for them.
I do have a feeling that some of these problems were the result of the reshoots we know took place, which might be why the ending feels rather tacked on. I suppose that's what you get when your opening credits consist of a half-dozen castmembers and two-dozen producers.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 11, 2021 6:56:11 GMT
I'm amused with the creator's turnabout intro on the two series. It's great, imo. He did beautiful work. Ok, I'm grumpy now. When would ST TNG A Final Unity ever get a revive like the Blade Runner game?
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 11, 2021 22:18:10 GMT
Ok, I'm grumpy now. When would ST TNG A Final Unity ever get a revive like the Blade Runner game? I am so glad I have a backup image of the old disc that still runs on DOSBox.
If someone were to ever suggest to make a remaster/remake of A Final Unity on kickstarter or something, I'd back on a really high tier in a heartbeat.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2021 18:32:07 GMT
Ugh i hated TNG a Final Unity.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 15, 2021 19:13:49 GMT
Ugh i hated TNG a Final Unity. What? Why? To me it was like a super long TNG (quadriple or something) episode to play. IMO it's the game that best captured the atmosphere and spirit of it's source material ever.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 19, 2021 2:07:36 GMT
Ugh i hated TNG a Final Unity. What? Why? To me it was like a super long TNG (quadriple or something) episode to play. IMO it's the game that best captured the atmosphere and spirit of it's source material ever. Well when I tried playing it I was in my single digits. And just...pissed me the hell off with that first little ship that wrecked the Enterprise and the little miniture probe version thing at the end. Still I do remember it was actually my first game that I remember with branching paths and dialogue choices so at least that went well.
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Post by hoku on Feb 19, 2021 9:17:03 GMT
There were some rather dubious aka take it with grain of salt rumors about Scott Bakula and Star Trek teaming up again in the last couple of days on Picard?! off all possibilities (Strange New World, Short Treks or Lower Decks probably would make more sense).
However his current gig where he is the lead, NCIS New Orleans just got cancelled by CBS as of the end of the current season in May.
Would be cool to have him involved again, whether as a guest, lead or cameo.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 2, 2021 1:14:35 GMT
Just started my rewatch of Enterprise.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Mar 12, 2021 6:30:41 GMT
Frakes doing his thing.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 15, 2021 7:42:50 GMT
So I have (finally!) been catching up on Star Trek Discovery season 3 and been marathoning the heck out of it between it and Seal Team. But let me say I think this show has finally hit its stride. The first two seasons were pretty inconsistent at times had high moments and low moments especially. But moving to the future and not being bound to continuity or anything was a really good move and has done the show wonders. A ship from the Federation's Golden Time trying to keep the Federation going and restore it in a time of crisis. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but just one zinger after another and it is introducing several long term story elements that are just keeping me invested and makes the show hard to put down. Spoilers for Terra Firma: So its not often a show gets another crack to fix its mistakes like this and well the first time through the Mirror Universe while it had some enjoyable moments it also really did my boy Lorca dirty.
But now we have another trip through the Mirror Universe and it was pretty much everything that I wanted from the first trip through. Maybe a little blunt and perhaps out of nowhere but I can still buy the overall effect since this was exactly what I wanted from the Lorca arc.
Georgieu may be blunt and acrebric and a 'Terran' but it was clear she learned from her experiences on Discovery and started to view things differently...that there was another way. And the same thing with the crew of the Discovery as well. That they were toughened up a little bit by her presence and leaarned things. But yet not everyone in her universe appreciated it and rebelled.
I also did rather like the commentary on the inevitability of things, that I guess time corrects. And well it did certainly do that.
And well lots of cool call backs in this episode. When Paul Gullifoyle dropped the big reveal and what an epic touch using the original audio "I am the Guardian of Forever"...such an epic scene which had my jaw on the floor.
And I cannot wait just to see what is going on with the Kelpian ship and I also do not trust Admiral Vance one bit now. Man is starting to seem like too much of the obstructionist.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 29, 2021 23:15:21 GMT
The guy from TNG's "Darmok" episode had me rolling.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 2:32:17 GMT
A deleted scene that probably should stay deleted. I forgot Wesley has a brief appearance in Star Trek: Nemesis. Still interesting, never seen this before. Disregards Wesley's arc in "Journey's Ending" so I can see why they turfed it. (Also it's kind of pointless and silly.) Regardless, wanted to share in case anyone missed it like me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 18:17:20 GMT
Just binged Picard.
It was.... ok?
I loved the fanservice, loved the performances. Characters are written decently, plot is really badly recycled trash.
Universe with Daddy issues is saved by Space Jesus, news at 11.
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