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Post by Superhik on Oct 5, 2017 3:09:30 GMT
Lol...what are the chances this is some "other" Luzarius harrassing devs on Twitter over putting brothels in video games.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 5, 2017 4:51:00 GMT
That was neither a complaint nor the only issue presented. It shows a lack of an ability to effectively debate an argument when you choose to focus on the one aspect you think you can score points on and dismiss the rest. But midnighttea has constantly proved he's a close minded bigot to things that don't fit his worldview. Right, because the argument that gay people exist, oh noes, is so serious and credible. And it's not that gay people exist, is that they are not being oppressed!
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 5, 2017 5:11:50 GMT
How times have changed since BioWare put brothels into Hordes of the Underdark but had to get rid of them (and a few other things) at Hasbro's request. How Gaider snarked about hyperventilating publishers afterwards.
Who's doing the hyperventilating now, I wonder...
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 5, 2017 5:38:09 GMT
Damn. Bad enough the gameplay is mediocre and now they cutting off the brothels to make sexual content more enjoyable? BioWare y'all bunch of wussies.
No wonder Witcher is so successful because they're not afraid of putting mature content in the game and it was very well made. It seems BW want to suck after all.😑
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Post by smilesja on Oct 5, 2017 5:44:49 GMT
Damn. Bad enough the gameplay is mediocre and now they cutting off the brothels to make sexual content more enjoyable? BioWare y'all bunch of wussies. No wonder Witcher is so successful because they're not afraid of putting mature content in the game and it was very well made. It seems BW want to suck after all.😑 That's the reason The Witcher was successful, we don't know much about the game yet.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 5, 2017 5:55:06 GMT
Brothels are fun in theory, but to this day I've found only one brothel in gaming to be enjoyable: The Blooming Rose Others have been rather lousy. So I don't think we are losing anything important even if we can't bang prostitutes in DA4. But definitely support OP's opinion that we should be able to see the DA4 cities in all their splendor and gloominess. No more Val Royeaux bullshit please! DAI failed big time because it didn't have a single proper city. Give us DA4 version of Novigrad, or even better, Kirkwall And yeah, I want casual sex as well! DAO didn't have a lot of redeeming qualities, but hilarious random sexual encounters was one of them. Spoiling Cammen's relationship by seducing the elven girl was one of the highlights I'm all in for brothels and sex scenes as much as the next guy, and the devs have to realize that their fans are adults, and sex is to be expected of mature games. This is not T for Teen or E for Everyone.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 5, 2017 6:13:51 GMT
Brothels are fun in theory, but to this day I've found only one brothel in gaming to be enjoyable: The Blooming Rose Others have been rather lousy. So I don't think we are losing anything important even if we can't bang prostitutes in DA4. But definitely support OP's opinion that we should be able to see the DA4 cities in all their splendor and gloominess. No more Val Royeaux bullshit please! DAI failed big time because it didn't have a single proper city. Give us DA4 version of Novigrad, or even better, Kirkwall And yeah, I want casual sex as well! DAO didn't have a lot of redeeming qualities, but hilarious random sexual encounters was one of them. Spoiling Cammen's relationship by seducing the elven girl was one of the highlights I'm all in for brothels and sex scenes as much as the next guy, and the devs have to realize that their fans are adults, and sex is to be expected of mature games. This is not T for Teen or E for Everyone. A game does not require sex to be Mature. Nor is it expected of a rated M game since most M games don't have sex in them.
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Post by river82 on Oct 5, 2017 6:16:59 GMT
Brothels are fun in theory, but to this day I've found only one brothel in gaming to be enjoyable: The Blooming Rose Others have been rather lousy. So I don't think we are losing anything important even if we can't bang prostitutes in DA4. But definitely support OP's opinion that we should be able to see the DA4 cities in all their splendor and gloominess. No more Val Royeaux bullshit please! DAI failed big time because it didn't have a single proper city. Give us DA4 version of Novigrad, or even better, Kirkwall And yeah, I want casual sex as well! DAO didn't have a lot of redeeming qualities, but hilarious random sexual encounters was one of them. Spoiling Cammen's relationship by seducing the elven girl was one of the highlights The reason the omission of a brothel will detract from the game isn't about being able to have sex with characters (although that is a nice perk, I guess.) It has to do with worldbuilding, what the brothel and how it operates adds to the culture, and how it affects people around town. If done right the inclusion of a brothel and all it implies (in medieval times or whenever this game is set, keeping in mind there's little or no regulation and protections involved) may greatly impact the atmosphere of a section of town. Is Tevinter the setting of the next Dragon Age? Well, that decadent, power-hungry, corrupt culture steeped in blood magic would surely have horrible implications for any sex trading that goes on in that place. And those implications flesh out the culture and setting of Tevinter, makes it deeper, more substantial. They could TALK about the horrible things that go on but that does little, SEEING it and the effects it has on a place and its people adds atmosphere and depth. Though to be fair they just said "no brothel" they didn't say anything about the sex trade overall.
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Post by N7Valentine on Oct 5, 2017 10:26:09 GMT
Oh that's just great... More fuel for those who think BW are a bunch of SJW wusses...
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 5, 2017 10:41:59 GMT
Plus - among your 'arguments' you've stated that the inclusion of 'fully gay/lesbian' and trans characters is a mark of creeping political correctness. So if you want to see a close-minded bigot hiding in this thread, go look in the mirror instead of psychologically projecting at others. You're not worth any more of my time. I suggest you look up the meaning of what politically correct actually is.... as you seem woefully uninformed. However, it's far more likely you're feigning ignorance in some asinine effort to take what you consider to be the moral high ground. Sounds like a bigot to me. Also, I honestly can't tell if you're misrepresenting my argument about homosexuality in the game purposefully or if you're just so far up your own agenda that you actually believe what you're saying. Only in the mind of an off their rocker SJW would someone try to say homosexual inclusiveness is politically correct equals gay hating.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 5, 2017 10:43:54 GMT
How times have changed since BioWare put brothels into Hordes of the Underdark but had to get rid of them (and a few other things) at Hasbro's request. How Gaider snarked about hyperventilating publishers afterwards. Who's doing the hyperventilating now, I wonder... I was not always a fan of Gaider... but he was usually true to the art. His exit from BW probably has more to do with the creeping political correctness than BW is admitting.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 5, 2017 12:20:38 GMT
How times have changed since BioWare put brothels into Hordes of the Underdark but had to get rid of them (and a few other things) at Hasbro's request. How Gaider snarked about hyperventilating publishers afterwards. Who's doing the hyperventilating now, I wonder... I was not always a fan of Gaider... but he was usually true to the art. His exit from BW probably has more to do with the creeping political correctness than BW is admitting. Please explain....
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 5, 2017 13:11:00 GMT
Brothels are fun in theory, but to this day I've found only one brothel in gaming to be enjoyable: The Blooming Rose Others have been rather lousy. So I don't think we are losing anything important even if we can't bang prostitutes in DA4. But definitely support OP's opinion that we should be able to see the DA4 cities in all their splendor and gloominess. No more Val Royeaux bullshit please! DAI failed big time because it didn't have a single proper city. Give us DA4 version of Novigrad, or even better, Kirkwall And yeah, I want casual sex as well! DAO didn't have a lot of redeeming qualities, but hilarious random sexual encounters was one of them. Spoiling Cammen's relationship by seducing the elven girl was one of the highlights The reason the omission of a brothel will detract from the game isn't about being able to have sex with characters (although that is a nice perk, I guess.) It has to do with worldbuilding, what the brothel and how it operates adds to the culture, and how it affects people around town. If done right the inclusion of a brothel and all it implies (in medieval times or whenever this game is set, keeping in mind there's little or no regulation and protections involved) may greatly impact the atmosphere of a section of town. The atmosphere of a section of a town can't be separate from atmosphere of an actual story of a game. So yes - an inclusion of brothel and all it implies may greatly impact atmosphere of a town... but not if that town happens to be besieged or overran by invading army, or if part of the city is in a riot or there's some fort of magical cataclysm happening and so on. Then there are of course design priorities shaped by the story - we only saw small section of the city in DAI, because it wasn't important to show more of it and it'd be utterly bizarre to get access to a section whose only reason to exist in the story is to... get to access to brothels, wut? From that standpoint a 'simple pleasure' becomes this strange, prominent feature that was important to be put in game over anything else. Nevermind that, for variety of reasons, it'd be way more convenient and less risky (politically and whatnot) to just discretely hire prostitutes or high-end courtesans to visit Inquisitor in a mansion they stay or something. Nope, they didn't. Though there are more ways to witness or experience sex trade than just visiting a brothel - though, again, it depends where the story will take us and how much of a priority it actually is. There are multiple ways to portray a decadent, power-hungry, corrupt culture steeped in blood magic and gruesome ways how it affects its victims. How, and how much, we're going to see it so far remains an unknown. Another thing - it'd be prudent to take much of what Mark Darrah posts on his Twitter with a grain of salt. The guy is known to troll people and give humorous responses that are neither here or there, including joking about completely 'forgetting' all about important characters when people ask if they're going to show up in next game. And from the look of it, they've recently fully embraced the fact that people are going to take whatever they write or post and warp it ten times over. Just look at his responses to people asking about the 'leak'.
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Post by phoray on Oct 5, 2017 13:21:59 GMT
midnight teaSo all the buildings in DAO and DA2 we couldn't enter were a waste of resources? And they should actually have made Val Royeax smaller?
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 5, 2017 14:03:20 GMT
MT So all the buildings in DAO and DA2 we couldn't enter were a waste of resources? And they should actually have made Val Royeax smaller? I'm not sure I follow...? What do decorative assets, like empty buildings, have to do with a brothel? ... And how do you know that there weren't some brothels in some of the empty buildings we couldn't enter? Well, you don't know that because creating a brothel that we could say is a brothel (or an inn, or a shop, or a ratcatcher) requires way more work than creating an empty building we can't enter - and I don't think people would be any happier if all they got is a locked door with a word 'BROTHEL!" above it. In fact I can already hear the complains in my head. The role of buildings we couldn't enter in DAO and DA was purely decorative, in the most basic sense of the word. A literal filler in a game that featured cities we could traverse a bit to get from point A to point B and alleys where we were ambushed. We didn't get those in DAI, aside from the market and tiny sections for specific quests. Also... I don't understand the whole 'should they actually make Val Royeaux smaller'? Where does it come from? I'm fairly sure I didn't say anything about making Val Royeaux smaller - only that it'd be very bizarre for the game that had no time or reason to show us more than large marketplace and then present us with anther hand-crafted section of town which either main or sole reason of existence would be... entering a brothel. It'd be head-scratching to say the least, nevermind that it'd open a completely new can of worms in terms of asking ourselves about narrative or RP priorities of the game, or why other sections or activities weren't featured too, if they had time (did they? I just got my copy of "Blood, Sweat and Pixels" book which has a chapter dedicated to development of DAI and it seemed to be LITERAL HELL with it being a near-miracle that the game is as good as it is considering all the obstacles on their way) to put in something that was never really consequential to any story in any DA game and only featured in games that had bigger sections of cities present or actually happened mostly in the city.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 5, 2017 14:21:12 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games.
BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 5, 2017 14:48:07 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games. BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't. I tried to hint at this in another thread. Bioware is no longer that dev that gamers and media gave a free pass because their games were so great and industry leading such as BG, ME1, and KOTOR. This is why releasing DA4 in the same window as 2077 could be a bad decision. Of course people will disagree but the momentum is in the favor of CDPR, not Bioware. I expect DA4 to be a superior game to MEA, but if other games are advancing at a faster rate and Bioware not being able to keep up, EA may pull the plug on Bioware and have then soley focus on Anthem.
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Post by tacsear on Oct 5, 2017 14:58:33 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games. BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't. Of course people will disagree but the momentum is in the favor of CDPR, not Bioware. I expect DA4 to be a superior game to MEA, but if other games are advancing at a faster rate and Bioware not being able to keep up, EA may pull the plug on Bioware and have then soley focus on Anthem. That's not a high bar really. I think the controversy in their latest games could harm BW more than CDPR ever could. ME3, DA2, DAI(even if it got shit load of GOTY awards) and MEA are divisive games. MEA can be considered outright bad though. A studio can only handle a certain amount of controversy before collapsing. We might see BW in amoung the studios EA has killed like Maxis.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 15:15:44 GMT
When I hear "Bioware can't make an interesting city without incorporating brothels." my mind translates it to, "I have a lack of imagination and think people having sex in another room is edgier than having a pedicure done."
When I hear "Bioware can't compete with CDPR." my mind translates that to "I have played a different game and now think all games should be that game."
When I hear "Bioware has been undermined by political correctness and SJWs" my mind translates that to "I really don't think that anyone should make games that appeal to people who are not me and my straight, white, middle-class 18-25-year-old friends. If my mom would have fun playing this game, I would lose my shit."
So that's the camp I'm in.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 5, 2017 15:26:32 GMT
When I hear "Bioware can't make an interesting city without incorporating brothels." my mind translates it to, "I have a lack of imagination and think people having sex in another room is edgier than having a pedicure done." When I hear "Bioware can't compete with CDPR." my mind translates that to "I have played a different game and now think all games should be that game." When I hear "Bioware has been undermined by political correctness and SJWs" my mind translates that to "I really don't think that anyone should make games that appeal to people who are not me and my straight, white, middle-class 18-25-year-old friends. If my mom would have fun playing this game, I would lose my shit." So that's the camp I'm in. Funny, so I guess because TW3 and DAI are "different games" then we cant compare how one game approaches side quest vs another?
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Post by smilesja on Oct 5, 2017 15:27:43 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games. BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't. Blinded? People have a different opinion than yours, get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 15:36:19 GMT
When I hear "Bioware can't make an interesting city without incorporating brothels." my mind translates it to, "I have a lack of imagination and think people having sex in another room is edgier than having a pedicure done." When I hear "Bioware can't compete with CDPR." my mind translates that to "I have played a different game and now think all games should be that game." When I hear "Bioware has been undermined by political correctness and SJWs" my mind translates that to "I really don't think that anyone should make games that appeal to people who are not me and my straight, white, middle-class 18-25-year-old friends. If my mom would have fun playing this game, I would lose my shit." So that's the camp I'm in. Funny, so I guess because TW3 and DAI are "different games" then we can compare how one game approaches side quest vs another? We have, excessively, for the past three years. We get it, you don't like that DA:I had FedEx fetch quests, and Witcher ended up having the time and resources to round out their product in a way that was more satisfying for many people. DA:I and Witcher 3 are still both great games. I will never play Witcher though, because I can't stand Geralt or the goddamn way they do FOV. I can play DA:I for hours without my eyes wanting to murder me. Both companies still have my money.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 5, 2017 15:39:43 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games. BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't. Blinded? People have a different opinion than yours, get over it. But it is a fact that DAI is nowhere near the level of grotesque of DA2 and DAO. I mean DAI has its moments, but nowhere near the level of the previous two games. Hell, even Patrick Weekes made reference to this and how it shapes their writing.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 5, 2017 15:43:09 GMT
It's clear this thread boils down to two camps. The people who are disappointed that BW lost their edge and willingness to go where they needed to tell a good story.... and the people so blinded by their agenda that they can't even see the degradation over the course of 3 games. BW needs to step up, because CDPR is wiping the floor with them because they're willing to go where BW won't. Needed? DAI needed a brothel? DA4 will need one? For what?
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 5, 2017 15:48:23 GMT
Funny, so I guess because TW3 and DAI are "different games" then we can compare how one game approaches side quest vs another? We have, excessively, for the past three years. We get it, you don't like that DA:I had FedEx fetch quests, and Witcher ended up having the time and resources to round out their product in a way that was more satisfying for many people. DA:I and Witcher 3 are still both great games. I will never play Witcher though, because I can't stand Geralt or the goddamn way they do FOV. I can play DA:I for hours without my eyes wanting to murder me. Both companies still have my money. It isnt just me who didnt like the fetch quest but a whole lot of people. DAI was praised and got high review scores. However the one area it was hit hard on WAS the fetch quest and how a lot of the side content didnt tie into the main story like TW3 did. Even MEA was hit hard on this. Also who said Bioware didnt have time to make DAI and round it out? Bioware had approximately the same amount of time to make DAI as CDPR did with TW3. You are just trying to make excusea for them. I like Bioware but I am not a Bioware apologist. I can see when and where Bioware dropped the ball and call them out on it. It doesnt make me any less of a fan. Bioware has had 2 games now in a open worldish setting. They have 2 games to draw feedback from and if DA4 repeats the side quest mistakes as DAI and MEA, then the gaming media will not be kind to them which could affect the review score which in return could affect sales and overall reception. Anthem will get a pass cause it is a new type of game and their 1st crack at it. But DA4 will be seen in a much intense lens. You may not care but if DA4 is a dud, especially after MEA, EA could decide to restructure things and make Bioware EA Edmonton/EA Austin and just focus on Anthem.
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