"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet.

I'm not accusing you specifically of bigotry but it's clear that many people who are advocating for "dark fantasy" have a clear agenda. My point is you are very selective in what you label  "dark".

Name something in DAI that is similar to giving Fenris back to a slavemaster.

Name something in DAI that is similar to seeing the death of your characters brother, sister, and mother like in DA2.

Name something in DAI that is similar to seeing a whole village of elves being slaughtered.

Name something in DAI that is similar to being able connect with a population of people and see them in their lowest moments trying to survive right before they are completely wiped out like in Lothering.

Name something in DAI that is similar to the slums of Orzarmmar in DAO or Lowtown in DA2.

Name something in DAI that is similar to the quest in DAO where a mage is selling citu elves into slavery or in DA2 where there is a serial killer of women.

Should I keep going?

Well, it does raise the question of what specifically we are conditioned by the literature to perceive as pedestrian and allowable evil, vs evil that truly terrifies us and makes us uncomfortable when reading it or watching it presented.

You can dwell on it for a while, and ponder why, but one thing that does not inherently represents such evil is a brothel, strip club, house of pleasure, etc. There are things that can be set to pass in that setting that will repulse the reader/viewer, but there are also the scenarios that will associate it with entertainment, excitement, innuendo jokes and such.

So, again, turning a brothel in a flag-ship of a dark and mature setting is exceedingly odd. And I doubt that is what phoray had in mind when she made her post in defense of the brothels as an ambiance location.

Anyways, cheers, folks.

1. You can let a young elf woman get recruited into the wardens in Crestwood, who will then be used as a sacrifice for binding the demons in a cutscene (you see her throat get slit)
2.Be attacked by Iron Bull and have to kill him (can happen even if romanced) the whole Solas using and betraying you thing, as well as the general shit you see happen to advisors/companions in Theiranfell and Redcliff even if it technically wasn't "real"
3. Isn't there an entire wing of elf servants that get killed in the winter palace?
4.Crestwood storyline is pretty dark where they are being beset by demons and bandits as well as having to deal with the discovery of what their mayor did during the blight.
5. The refuge camp in the Emerald Graves is alot of people just trying to escape the war and getting no help from the authorities as well as having to deal with the Red Templers and the Freemen
6. In Emprise du Lion the mayor is selling her people to the Red Templers to have lyrium grow out of them by a "choice" demon (which you see) in order to get money to keep the town alive as its cut off from  the rest of Orlais.
Overall, pretty dark from one game. Specially when your examples come from two games.

Killing the Chargers.

I had no attachment to Carver/Bethany/Leandra, so it didn't really bother me, but closest thing in DA: I would probably be the Blood-Soaked Teddy Bear you find in Exalted Plains. Actually, I think that was worse.

In Your Heart Will Burn killed a lot of people and destroyed your base.

Same with IYHWB, you meet and talk to and dance with the people in Haven right before it is destroyed.

The Exalted Plains is a blasted out ruin full of traumatized people, as is the Emprise du Lion.

In the Emprise du Lion, Mistress Poulin was selling off people to die in the mines and be made into Red Lyrium. Also, the mayor of Crestwood flooded his town killing refugees and his own people.

Copy pasted from PM:

I think it's been coined as "statistical numbing". That the Conclave is destroyed is meaningless to me, because I knew no one there. Even Five minutes in a room with dignitaries and nobles and your fellow mercs- maybe even someone from you Dalish clan, seeing the City elf servants serving drinks. To then walk down the hall to a "sound" -- they could have blacked it out there, just as you opened the door, to the opening Cutscene of being locked below in Haven's dungeons, being told every single person you saw and interacted with in that room had died.

And it's different to read a codex about a hunter who observed a woman who was almost raped. How many steps away from it am I? Paper-Hunter-other person? three steps away? It certainly doesn't make me feel like I, the protaganist, was ever at risk.

1) That is not the same or similar to giving your own party member to a slavemaster to become a slave.

2) The Iron bull situation is not the same or similar to it being your own family members that are dying.

3) Were you able to see these elfs get slaughtered? Cause in DAO, it was actually you that committed the slaughter.

4) Crestwood is irrelevant cause you were never able to meet and see the crestwood population before the horrors happened to them. In Lothering, you dealt with the people, talked to them, bartered with them, helped them out, and did sidequest for them. So you were able t grow an emotional bond with them. You never got to make an emotional bond with the Crestwood populace. You merely showed up AFTER the damage was done.

5) Yes, the refugee camp was bad, did were we able to see what the conclusion was? With lothering, we didnt see it but the narrative implied that they were all wiped out thus making your efforts to save them hit a bit closer to home.

6) Did you actually see the people set up to be sold? In DAO, you saw the city elves locked up in cages ready to be sold away. In DA2 you own party member could be given away to slavery.

I like Martin's books, but I would like fantasy to go to the heroic romanticism again.

You just compared a random villian you meet for in 1 zone to selling out yoymur companion to his former master...

That's no comparison at all. And yoy shouldnt need us to point that out to you. I honestly cant stand it when people feign ignorance just to support an argument that they know is weaker.

Quick question: did you even play DAI? Cus you can't remember alot.

Justook through the Keep tiles if you doubt DAI is less dark than the previous 2 games.

The number of twisted choices you can make as a player in DAO or DA2 far outnumber those in DAI.