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Post by midnight tea on Oct 7, 2017 23:50:05 GMT
I'm not sure I'd call the ending of Trespasser "dark." More like an infuriating lesson in how to be railroaded into incompetence. Yes, because god forbid the hero is shown to be vulnerable or not in full control over a behemoth of a situation.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 7, 2017 23:52:35 GMT
Wait a second..... you're asking us to use our imaginations to guess at what you mean? Can't you just say what you mean instead of asking us to guess? Guess what I mean by guess? Guess.
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Post by Zatche on Oct 8, 2017 0:00:24 GMT
I'd say the Cora, Jaal, and PeeBee scenes meet the criteria since they are at least equivalent to the Witcher 3 sex scenes. Not that I think it makes the game any better or worse, Cora left me pretty flustered.
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Post by melbella on Oct 8, 2017 0:01:04 GMT
Which we had no control over. Thus the railroading. If we were infiltrated because we made bad decisions or didn't do X but did Y instead, that would be fine. But no matter how effective we were as Inquisitor, as the Inquisition, in the end, we (and our help) were incompetent. We had no say about it at all. I think makes sense that, even as the leader, not every little thing is within our control. Something going wrong doesn't necessarily indicate our characters' incompetence.
Yet we are accused of incompetence. By the Exalted Council. By Solas. And we have no defense because apparently, off screen during two years in which we literally had NO CONTROL over our character or organization, SHIT HAPPENED. And we get blamed for it.
I don't mind being blamed for stuff that is my fault. Like DAO Teagan yelling at me for leaving Redcliffe to defend itself and everyone except him died as a result. Yep. My fault. But getting blamed for stuff that is creator fiat is infuriating.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 8, 2017 0:05:47 GMT
I think makes sense that, even as the leader, not every little thing is within our control. Something going wrong doesn't necessarily indicate our characters' incompetence.
Yet we are accused of incompetence. By the Exalted Council. By Solas. And we have no defense because apparently, off screen during two years in which we literally had NO CONTROL over our character or organization, SHIT HAPPENED. And we get blamed for it.
I don't mind being blamed for stuff that is my fault. Like DAO Teagan yelling at me for leaving Redcliffe to defend itself and everyone except him died as a result. Yep. My fault. But getting blamed for stuff that is creator fiat is infuriating.
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 8, 2017 0:15:37 GMT
I did explain why, "There's so much engaging and interesting content that you can come up with when more obscure themes seem to be a big no no. Sure you can make decent quests without going into that territory but then are they really that memorable? Will they invoke all these different kinds of emotions on the players? When you have a boss at the end of the questline, will it really be that satisfying to kill them? I don't think so." My opinion though, take it as you will. I don't want this to sound rude, but this looks like a word salad to me. I have no idea what your point is. This quote was from my previous comment where I talked about the sidequest in TW3, so it's connected to what I said there, not sure if you read that comment but I think I explained myself well there. I have to admit, I keep scratching my head about this talking point about Witcher 3 being this dark RPG... when it simply isn't. Dark Souls is dark. Bloodborne is dark. TW3 simply has dark or gritty themes woven across it - while at the same time it has a scene where 3 Witchers get drunk and wear Yennefer's clothes, or she can catapult Geralt to the middle of the lake for being an unfaithful bastard. It's no different for DAI. There are differences how they approach them and each does it in its own way - and whether one does it in what some arbitrarily called darker way or not doesn't make other portrayal lesser or less mature OR less satisfying. TW3 may not be described as a dark RPG but it most certainly has a LOT of dark themes that DAI doesn't. And when it does, most of it is described in codex or is just mentioned vaguely or left to interpretation, that's hardly the same as having an actual sidequest that explores those themes in great detail. You can't really consider that to be equally impactful. At least to me it is less satisfying having to read about something than to experience it. And keep in mind we're talking about side content and not the main story, at least I am. Even though the main story of TW3 is also a lot more heavy than DAI. I mean Skjall comes to my mind instantly, so does Uma's ritual or even Vesemir's death. And you're right, we do see 3 witchers getting drunk and wearing women's clothes right before one of those moments and that's exactly what makes this game so great. There are heavy moments just as there are more light hearted ones, there's a nice balance to it. As to the rest of your comment, we clearly have different notions to what "dark" actually means. And honestly, I'm tired of explaining why I liked that particular quest in TW3. No, that quest wasn't satisfying because I liked seeing Priscilla being mutilated. If that's what you got from my whole comment, then I don't know how to make you understand. It was satisfying because it was a detailed, complex sidequest with plenty of dialogue, investigation and plot twists. It added to the general atmosphere of the city of Novigrad. It was satisfying killing the bastard after seeing all the victims and the reason why he did it. To put it simply, the real satisfying part was actually being able to stay interested and enjoy doing that quest, meaning, I wasn't bored to death like I was when doing DAI's "sidequests". But why do quests have to be dark for you to enjoy them, you ask? They don't. There are plenty of sidequests that I like that are quite cheerful, but the more darker ones usually evoke more emotions and tell more varied and gripping stories that keep you on the edge of your seat. If you still can't see my point (you can understand it, but not agree with it), then well, let's just agree to disagree. I don't think I can explain it better honestly. Words are hard sometimes, specially words that aren't from your first language.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 8, 2017 0:45:09 GMT
Wait a second..... you're asking us to use our imaginations to guess at what you mean? Can't you just say what you mean instead of asking us to guess? Guess what I mean by guess? Guess. If you're trying to make it sound like you don't even know what your own point is, this is the way.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 8, 2017 0:57:49 GMT
That’s not deflection, that’s a genuine criticism. That sex scene is dumb. You didn't even answer my question and your response is deflection. Oh, very well. If a specific example is the only thing that will satisfy you. The Cullen sex scene is markedly better than that boat-buggery. Why, you ask? One, it’s an actual character-building moment, his attraction actually inspiring spontaneity in the normally buttoned-up Commander. Secondly, while both involve wooden surfaces, a flat, sturdy desk is preferable to a cramped, rickety boat on the water. (Christ, that must be uncomfortable.) Finally, while it is considerably briefer, I don’t personally find Geralt’s pixelated pumping to be all that appealing. Different strokes for different strokes.
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Post by Zatche on Oct 8, 2017 1:01:49 GMT
Guess what I mean by guess? Guess. If you're trying to make it sound like you don't even know what your own point is, this is the way. If we trace this back a few pages, the point was to pivot away from Haneko's point that DAI's nudity is a counter point to the idea that the absence of brothels is a sign that BioWare is suddenly afraid of sex.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 8, 2017 1:15:21 GMT
If you're trying to make it sound like you don't even know what your own point is, this is the way. If we trace this back a few pages, the point was to pivot away from Haneko's point that DAI's nudity is a counter point to the idea that the absence of brothels is a sign that BioWare is suddenly afraid of sex. Well of course. Gotta desperately cling to argument that Bioware's suddenly afraid of everything sexual, no matter how poorly reasoned it is. Can't make it on a basis on lack of sexy themes or explicit nudity... well... uh... the sex scenes were better in Witcher!! And while a lot of it is subjective, there's an entirely understandable reason why Witcher could've included sex scenes that were, at the very least, longer and more elaborate at times (though I will never, for the life of me, understand decisions that went into cinematic direction of Yenn's sex scene, with the deer and the wolves and... wha?) - the Witcher team didn't have to deal with all the racial/gender combinations that required DA cinematic team to hand-craft each scene multiple times.
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 8, 2017 1:22:14 GMT
You didn't even answer my question and your response is deflection. Oh, very well. If a specific example is the only thing that will satisfy you. The Cullen sex scene is markedly better than that boat-buggery. Why, you ask? One, it’s an actual character-building moment, demonstrating him being spontaneous in his love of the Inquisitor. Secondly, while both involve wooden surfaces, a flat, sturdy desk is preferable to a cramped, rickety boat on the water. (Christ, that must be uncomfortable.) Finally, while it is considerably briefer, I don’t personally find Geralt’s pixelated pumping to be all that appealing. Different strokes for different strokes. I actually find the sex scenes in TW3 to be rather awkward (which is one of the reasons why I never use brothels). The only one I actually like and don't mind is the famous unicorn scene with Yennefer. Mostly because it's a nod to book readers and it shows the playful relationship Yen and Geralt have. "Yen, let go of the mane." "I know you, I let go, you throw us off!" "Hehehehe" "Don't even try."
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 8, 2017 1:26:02 GMT
Well, I have been following this thread off and on since it's inception, and I have come to the conclusion that we should get rid of cat gifs. They are nothing but trouble. Just kidding. Cat gifs are great. Carry on.
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Post by Zatche on Oct 8, 2017 2:00:33 GMT
I think makes sense that, even as the leader, not every little thing is within our control. Something going wrong doesn't necessarily indicate our characters' incompetence.
Yet we are accused of incompetence. By the Exalted Council. By Solas. And we have no defense because apparently, off screen during two years in which we literally had NO CONTROL over our character or organization, SHIT HAPPENED. And we get blamed for it.
I don't mind being blamed for stuff that is my fault. Like DAO Teagan yelling at me for leaving Redcliffe to defend itself and everyone except him died as a result. Yep. My fault. But getting blamed for stuff that is creator fiat is infuriating.
I don't remember accusations framed this way. But I disagree with them all the same. For the reasons already stated.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 8, 2017 5:47:38 GMT
You didn't even answer my question and your response is deflection. Oh, very well. If a specific example is the only thing that will satisfy you. The Cullen sex scene is markedly better than that boat-buggery. Why, you ask? One, it’s an actual character-building moment, his attraction actually inspiring spontaneity in the normally buttoned-up Commander. Secondly, while both involve wooden surfaces, a flat, sturdy desk is preferable to a cramped, rickety boat on the water. (Christ, that must be uncomfortable.) Finally, while it is considerably briefer, I don’t personally find Geralt’s pixelated pumping to be all that appealing. Different strokes for different strokes. Pffft the sex scene with Cullen isn't even close to Witcher's. It's very dry and stale and therefore a bit boring, but if that's your preference who am I to judge?
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 8, 2017 5:48:36 GMT
If you're trying to make it sound like you don't even know what your own point is, this is the way. If we trace this back a few pages, the point was to pivot away from Haneko's point that DAI's nudity is a counter point to the idea that the absence of brothels is a sign that BioWare is suddenly afraid of sex. Thank you!
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 8, 2017 6:30:13 GMT
May I ask why? Genuinely curious. To be honest, it was boring. Felt no connection or interest whatsoever and saw every bit coming. Determined not to like it because it's not dragon age. I will never understand misguided loyalty in fandoms.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 8, 2017 6:42:52 GMT
To be honest, it was boring. Felt no connection or interest whatsoever and saw every bit coming. Determined not to like it because it's not dragon age. I will never understand misguided loyalty in fandoms. You don't think it's actually possible for someone to ACTUALLY be bored by that quest? Really?
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 8, 2017 6:48:15 GMT
To be honest, it was boring. Felt no connection or interest whatsoever and saw every bit coming. Determined not to like it because it's not dragon age. I will never understand misguided loyalty in fandoms. Tell me about it.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 8, 2017 6:49:15 GMT
Determined not to like it because it's not dragon age. I will never understand misguided loyalty in fandoms. You don't think it's actually possible for someone to ACTUALLY be bored by that quest? Really?She admitted to never playing the game. She saw a random cut scene and complained about it. I dont think you need me to tell you that's just a case of someone trying to cling to her own fandom for no reason.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 8, 2017 7:04:37 GMT
Yet we are accused of incompetence. By the Exalted Council. By Solas. And we have no defense because apparently, off screen during two years in which we literally had NO CONTROL over our character or organization, SHIT HAPPENED. And we get blamed for it.
I don't mind being blamed for stuff that is my fault. Like DAO Teagan yelling at me for leaving Redcliffe to defend itself and everyone except him died as a result. Yep. My fault. But getting blamed for stuff that is creator fiat is infuriating.
I don't remember accusations framed this way. But I disagree with them all the same. For the reasons already stated. You don't remember them because there weren't any. I have no idea what melbella's talking about. The closest thing is a vague remark by Duke Cyril about "mistakes of a young organization," but this is pretty transparently in service of the preferred Orlesian narrative that the Inquisition needs to be put under their control. Teagan sees a power grab rather than a mistake. Anyway, the topic at that time is the Inquisition's occupation of Crestwood, which didn't happen off-screen in the first place. And Solas doesn't accuse the Inquisitor of anything. He says that what happened to the Inquisition is the inevitable fate of powerful organizations. By definition, the inevitable fate of the Inquisition can't be the Inquisitor's fault -- unless the argument is that the Inquisitor should have disbanded the Inquisition before Trespasser even starts?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 8, 2017 7:09:22 GMT
To be honest, it was boring. Felt no connection or interest whatsoever and saw every bit coming. Determined not to like it because it's not dragon age. I will never understand misguided loyalty in fandoms. No misguided loyalty here, just didn't like the Witcher games. You don't think it's actually possible for someone to ACTUALLY be bored by that quest? Really?She admitted to never playing the game. She saw a random cut scene and complained about it. I dont think you need me to tell you that's just a case of someone trying to cling to her own fandom for no reason. What? I never admitted to never playing the games. I said I have played the games. All 3 of them. And I've said repeatedly that while I don't personally like the games, I think they were done well.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 8, 2017 7:13:01 GMT
You don't think it's actually possible for someone to ACTUALLY be bored by that quest? Really?She admitted to never playing the game. She saw a random cut scene and complained about it. I dont think you need me to tell you that's just a case of someone trying to cling to her own fandom for no reason. You seem to be a bit confused. pinkjellybeans assumed she didn't play them too, but was corrected: Well, sure, if you never played TW3 obviously you have no idea who Dandelion and Priscilla are. Of course you have no connection. That was beyond the point though. But I doubt me explaining would change anything, so let's leave it at that. Besides I doubt you even watched the whole thing or even tried to understand what the story was even about. Except I've played the Witcher games. Felt the same way then as I did watching the video. I like how you immediately try to discredit a person who disagrees with you though.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 8, 2017 7:15:07 GMT
So this thread is now gone to questioning fans loyalty because the didn't like a certain quest in the game?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 8, 2017 7:19:12 GMT
Technically, we're at the point of making up lies about somebody because she didn't like a quest.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 8, 2017 7:35:43 GMT
I know we're WAY off topic, but I remember back in 2011 that there were people in the DA wiki who complained about DA2 being too dark. They wanted to wrap up the Mage Templar Conflict for DA3 because it was boring to them. So DAI goes to a lighter tone (while still maintaining some darkness) and resolves the Mage and Templar war and people STILL complained about it.
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